89 réponses à ce sujet

[AresXX7]

@Alixen

I won't say it goes so far, it's story changing, but you may wonder why they can't do the same in the game(s).
(I'm not going to try & ruin it for you, with too many details, just read the comics & you'll see what I mean)

[Alixen]

Wow, Aria is pretty impressive. I have a new appreciation for her rule.

Yeah, thanks for not spoiling the comic for me. I'm curious now, so when I get it i'm definatly going to read it thoroughly.

[RubiconI7]

yorkj86 wrote...

She's the daughter of a Matriarch.  Doubtless she had training in biotics as a child, for the very same reason the children of rich, influential people may have their children trained in arts, fencing, equestrian, all things considered to be refined.

Also, if Matriarchs are supposed to have exceptional biotic ability, and if Liara was being groomed by her mother to also be a politician, she may have thought that it was best to start Liara on that path early.

Lastly, I don't see why Liara can't have naturally exceptional biotic ability.  As you said, some asari have greater biotic ability than others.

This and...

You may also want to factor her intelligence into the equation here.
1. She started "digging" when she was 50 and made a name for herself. (From the criticizim she receives from the work she does, we can infer that she is a controvercial figure in her area of expertise. If what she does are all bull****, no one would even notice you, right?) Also, we know that the Protheans are excetional at manipulating dark energy (conduit), if she spends her life in the ruins, we may be able to infer that she learned something...

2. She became the best information broker on Illium in two years. As we all know, Illium is probably the equivalent of places like Shanghai and New York. She, being only 106, became the best on the planet. Although the driving force was vengence but without brains, you can't just rise to the top this fast...

Zaeed once said that he "worked" wtih an 8-year-old who took down an entire batarian slaver ship...

Although there are no evidence to back me up (which I dislike), but you have to admit, some people are just talented.

Modifié par RubiconI7, 06 septembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[Jigero]

She never said she was, or has she ever really showed that she is, I doubt she any more powerful then any Asari Merc, she just smart and quick witted.

[LuxDragon]

Anyone that travels with Shepard gets strong. Or dies. Just the perks/hazards of the job.

[Eternal Density]

It's the coffee. Eezo coffee.

[Nightwriter]

AriesXX7 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But there are other things, too - when I ask why Liara faints after every single mission, when Shiala never fainted after the mindmeld, Liara fans explain that Shiala is likely considerably older than Liara. So Liara's age matters when she is mindmelding, but does not matter when it comes to her biotic powers?

IIRC Liara said something about the mindmeld affecting the recipient  more than the other.

I don't know Shiala's exact age, but she did say she spent aproximately 200 years, following Benezia.
So, however you choose, to do the math, there is a considerable difference.

Doesn't answer why Shiala mindmelds with you no problem but Liara is totally drained by it.

[lazuli]

Nightwriter wrote...

But there are other things, too - when I ask why Liara faints after every single mission, when Shiala never fainted after the mindmeld, Liara fans explain that Shiala is likely considerably older than Liara. So Liara's age matters when she is mindmelding, but does not matter when it comes to her biotic powers?

It's an act.  She's playing the part of the damsel in distress to elicit a response from Shepard.

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

AriesXX7 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But there are other things, too - when I ask why Liara faints after every single mission, when Shiala never fainted after the mindmeld, Liara fans explain that Shiala is likely considerably older than Liara. So Liara's age matters when she is mindmelding, but does not matter when it comes to her biotic powers?

IIRC Liara said something about the mindmeld affecting the recipient  more than the other.

I don't know Shiala's exact age, but she did say she spent aproximately 200 years, following Benezia.
So, however you choose, to do the math, there is a considerable difference.

Doesn't answer why Shiala mindmelds with you no problem but Liara is totally drained by it.

It could be that the intensity of the two melds differ.  Shiala just passed some info on to Shepard, while Liara completely immersed herself within the Commander' mind to study a very powerful image....one that knocked Shepard out for a few hours.

[Nightwriter]

That's an interesting explanation.

[Nightwriter]

lazuli wrote...

It's an act.  She's playing the part of the damsel in distress to elicit a response from Shepard.

[Siegdrifa]

I read only the first page and most of what i think have been wrote already.

But still i'll give my opinion (i know, opinion is like an ass hole, everybody have one but it's not a reason to show it to everybody... but when i go to vote i go with my opinion, i don't let my ass choose).

Liara was needed as a powerfull biotic user for the first game (and if you compare her utility from ME1 to jack or samara, she was really a big help in the figh), but may be in 24h she will be worst than jack and samara.

The reason about "why" from a story point of view could be:
She is the daughter of an extremly powerfull biotic matriarch, and the advise of master have no price.
She seem to be naturaly gifted as a great biotic (from her mother) + combined with what her mother should have tough her about the biotic use, and she seem to be actualy an "advanced" assari for her age. She is in her maiden stage but she already see a bigger picture than action in merc band or dancer in nightclub.

She seem to appreaciat her gifted talent for biotic and keep it sharp, like she said in ME1, she is usualy alone and she never met a situation of danger that her biotic couldn't handle.
I (imo) have no doubt she trust her biotic to save her life if needed.


... and in 24 hour may be Liara will appear like the badest biotic user among asari 
That will be your fault Bioware ! 

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 06 septembre 2010 - 04:38 .

[Siegdrifa]

Doesn't answer why Shiala mindmelds with you no problem but Liara is totally drained by it.

May be we can argue that as Liara is a naturaly advanced biotic, her natural sensitivity for biotic (and her little experience of melding) is more effectiv to react strongly, like the sensitivity of real advanced children in general.

Sensitivity define the way your persive the world with your feeling, each human have their own, and most sensitive people can feel what happen to them more deeply, it's because they persive more, that they see the world in a more complex way, the revers effect is, their feeling can hurt them and affect them more easly as more info in stronger amount are felt.

just my 2 cents.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 06 septembre 2010 - 05:01 .

[AresXX7]

Nightwriter wrote...

AriesXX7 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But there are other things, too - when I ask why Liara faints after every single mission, when Shiala never fainted after the mindmeld, Liara fans explain that Shiala is likely considerably older than Liara. So Liara's age matters when she is mindmelding, but does not matter when it comes to her biotic powers?

IIRC Liara said something about the mindmeld affecting the recipient  more than the other.

I don't know Shiala's exact age, but she did say she spent aproximately 200 years, following Benezia.
So, however you choose, to do the math, there is a considerable difference.

Doesn't answer why Shiala mindmelds with you no problem but Liara is totally drained by it.

In my intial post, going by memory, I thought I remembered her saying that the person, receiving the information, would be the one affected by it.
As it turns out, after replaying the scene, I realized I got it wrong. It turns out, it's the one who initiates the joining and not the other way around.

Basically, I was trying to say, the same thing jlb524 said.
Sorry, my bad...... I think I'll go take a Cerberal Tonic pill now.   

Modifié par AriesXX7, 06 septembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[Mr_Raider]

Rank 6 asari scientist:



Reduces recharge time on all biotics by 14%. First Aid heals an additional 70 points of damage. Reduces recharge time on First Aid by 6%



Rank 6 adept talent:

Reduces recharge time on biotic talents by 14%. Increases biotic protection by 21%





she's about as good a biotiic as shep, a lowly human, but can take less of a beating. Once shep gets Nemesis/Bastion spec, she is yesterday's news.



Not very impressive.

[didymos1120]

Mr_Raider wrote...
she's about as good a biotiic as shep, a lowly human, but can take less of a beating. Once shep gets Nemesis/Bastion spec, she is yesterday's news.

Not very impressive.

Gameplay mechanics don't really prove anything.  Shep can outperform Jack and Samara and have a wider range of biotic powers.  Canonically, they're still more powerful.

[lovgreno]

Liara was just born that way. She is a prodigy in many ways.

[MaaZeus]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Isn't it very ambiguous - even among asari themselves - whether or not the child gets anything at all from the father genetically?

No, it's commonly believed they get something.  It's not ambiguous that they actually don't.  Three different asari on Ilium will just flat-out tell you the father doesn't contribute any genes (Aethyta, Erinya, and the Blue-Rose Of Ilium).

Well, atleast it is not proven. Perhaps there is nothing "genetic" to measure so it cannot be really proven as a fact. But really, just one talk with the Asari bartender is enough to notice his father is definetly a Krogan so some traits are definetly inherited. But if her personality and speech is because of the biological Krogan father, OR is it simply remnant of her raising as a child (I'm pretty sure her father and his raising style is quite tough, and add in Krogans way to speak which growing kids will definetly pick up)

Modifié par MaaZeus, 06 septembre 2010 - 08:32 .

[Guanxii]

 Liara is to Samara what Grunt is to Wrex.

Samara and Wrex are old hardened veterans...masters if you will who have reached the height of their respective power(s) through centuries of experience; Liara and Grunt are promising newcomers who are learning as they go exactly as we are. This is their journey too.

I venture to say that Redemption if clumsily written was Liara's coming of age... when she first starts coming into her own as an asari biotic and as a woman in the stead of her mother a god damn Matriarch. Remember Matriarch are the Biotic pinnacle. Justicars are second only to Matriarchs and she is her mother's daughter - I think that is apparent; that potential is passed on in her genes, just as Grunt's is.

Edit: P.S. comparing human biotics to Asari is ridiculous. Miranda is good by human standards, Jack is exceptional by human standards. An exceptional human is probably comparable to a good Asari. Liara might just be a great one. Maybe even a Matriarch herself one day. Grunt might just be the greatest Krogan that ever lived.

Modifié par Guanxii, 06 septembre 2010 - 10:33 .

[didymos1120]

MaaZeus wrote...

Well, at least it is not proven. Perhaps there is nothing "genetic" to measure so it cannot be really proven as a fact.

If there's nothing in their genes from the non-asari parent that can be measured, then that establishes something else: that they don't inherit anything genetically.  Which is what Aethyta herself tells you, even if she expresses a bit of folksy skepticism about what those scientists say (that "getting genetic material from the father is crap") with respect to her smart mouth.

But really, just one talk with the Asari bartender is enough to notice his father is definetly a Krogan so some traits are definetly inherited.

Like what?  What was unequivocally, genetically inherited from her krogan father?  There's nothing you can just point to and say "See! Krogan!" that I can think of : lady looks asari to me.  And are asari simply incapable of behaving that way when they don't have a Krogan dad?  If she hadn't ever mentioned her krogan father, do you really think you would have gone "Wow, she must be part krogan!"

But if her personality and speech is because of the biological Krogan father, OR is it simply remnant of her raising as a child (I'm pretty sure her father and his raising style is quite tough, and add in Krogans way to speak which growing kids will definetly pick up)

Yeah, well, exactly: that's not inheritance. Not in any biological sense.  That's simply picking up speech patterns and some behaviors through garden-variety learning.  Even if there is a biological component to her personality (as is almost certainly the case), it's still ridiculously more likely that it came from her mother: the asari who spent a good long time as a commando during the Krogan Rebellions and was also fairly aggressive on her own (per Aethyta herself), and who clearly valued such traits, given that she chose a krogan bondmate.

[Frybread76]

Are Asari so powerful because they are Asari, or is it because of age (the biological changes that happen between Maiden and Matriach stages) or experience?  Because Liara, a young Asari at 106 years old, seems to be not much more powerful than the human biotics you encounter and have on your teams in ME1 and ME2.  This leads me to believe an Asari's power is based on their age and hundreds of years of experience.

[dreman9999]

yorkj86 wrote...

She's the daughter of a Matriarch.  Doubtless she had training in biotics as a child, for the very same reason the children of rich, influential people may have their children trained in arts, fencing, equestrian, all things considered to be refined.

Also, if Matriarchs are supposed to have exceptional biotic ability, and if Liara was being groomed by her mother to also be a politician, she may have thought that it was best to start Liara on that path early.

Lastly, I don't see why Liara can't have naturally exceptional biotic ability.  As you said, some asari have greater biotic ability than others.

She's a daughter of 2 Matriarchs+years of training with the Asari commandos that fallows one of thoughs 2 matriarchs=VERY POWERFUL BIOTIC.

[dreman9999]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr_Raider wrote...
she's about as good a biotiic as shep, a lowly human, but can take less of a beating. Once shep gets Nemesis/Bastion spec, she is yesterday's news.

Not very impressive.

Gameplay mechanics don't really prove anything.  Shep can outperform Jack and Samara and have a wider range of biotic powers.  Canonically, they're still more powerful.

Shepard has implants that help him/Her out preform Jack and Samara and thoses 2 as still very powerful.

[Frybread76]

yorkj86 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr_Raider wrote...
she's about as good a biotiic as shep, a lowly human, but can take less of a beating. Once shep gets Nemesis/Bastion spec, she is yesterday's news.

Not very impressive.

Gameplay mechanics don't really prove anything.  Shep can outperform Jack and Samara and have a wider range of biotic powers.  Canonically, they're still more powerful.

Shepard has implants that help him/Her out preform Jack and Samara and thoses 2 as still very powerful.

As he said, gameplay mechanics don't really prove anything.

Do cutscenes count, because if we go by those Jack is much more powerful than, Samara,  Liara and Benezia.