134 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Mistress9Nine wrote...
On a serious note, if these (the people who make dismal DLC in your opinion) are the same people that would otherwise be working on the sequel, would you not rather have them assigned some other job so DA2 will be untainted?

I missed this question earlier. I think you missunderstood. I don't think that the people working on the DLC are bad at what they do. I think they work on what they are told to, within the constraints given to them. I think that DLC, as a sales vehicle, is dismal in and of itself, regardless of who works on it. The problem is DLC as a concept itself, not whoever is working on it.

[Eurypterid]

sandslayer76 wrote...


I can't express annoyance at the gargantuan amounts of flaming I've been seeing on these forums since Dragon Age has been released? Isn't that what an opinion and/or concern is? I understand what you're saying, but there has to be a limit on how much complaining one can take.

Actually, if I understand you correctly, no. Complaining about complainers is not productive and is frowned upon here. If you don't like the complaining, move on to another thread.

I respect when people have legitimate problems with an already released game, like the memory leak in Origins. However, when people complain about something that hasn't even been released yet, where you cannot even judge the quality of it, I don't see where that's productive.

People are concerned by what they've seen and read (i.e the new dialog wheel for DA2 and Ray Muzycka's description of DA2 as an 'action' RPG). Whether those concerns are justified or not will be revealed when the game releases, but people do have a right to express those concerns when they hear or see something like that.

People assume that simply because Bioware mistimed their original release date for DA2 that the quality of the game is going to be low. I find that illogical, and the only time that statement could be backed by fact is when DA2 is released and it turns out to be crappy.

That's not what I'm reading. I'mn reading that many of the people posting concerns are saying the quality of DA:O was low (i.e. bugs and patching concerns) and they're saying they didn't think the quality of the DLC was that high either. So, in conjunction with the things I referenced above, they're extrapolating that DA2 may be of questionable quality as well. That's fair enough whether one agrees with it or not.

So maybe I was a bit harsh in my original presentation of my annoyance, but that doesn't change what I am seeing. I respect complaints about DLC quality or bugs in Origins. I cannot take a complaint about an unreleased product seriously.

But you're not being asked to. The devs are. Let them address the concerns/complaints. Don't come into the thread and say "Make your own game, if you're so smart" or "Shut up". 

[sandslayer76]

Eurypterid wrote...

Actually, if I understand you correctly, no. Complaining about complainers is not productive and is frowned upon here. If you don't like the complaining, move on to another thread.

Hmm... But I don't make the rules here, thus my interpretation of things is invalid, yes? I have to wonder whether "complaining about complainers" is anywhere near the low-level of productivity as "complaining about useless things", like I see so many people doing on more threads than just this.

Eurypterid wrote...

People are concerned by what they've seen and read (i.e the new dialog wheel for DA2 and Ray Muzycka's description of DA2 as an 'action' RPG). Whether those concerns are justified or not will be revealed when the game releases, but people do have a right to express those concerns when they hear or see something like that.

Yeah, they do have that right. Doesn't that also mean I have the right to form an opposite opinion? You can't only pick and choose what parts of rules to interpret as supporting your case and throw out the rest of it. Also, I've already come to the realization that I was wrong in saying "shut up", so I fail to see why your statement is relevant.

Eurypterid wrote...

That's not what I'm reading. I'mn reading that many of the people posting concerns are saying the quality of DA:O was low (i.e. bugs and patching concerns) and they're saying they didn't think the quality of the DLC was that high either. So, in conjunction with the things I referenced above, they're extrapolating that DA2 may be of questionable quality as well. That's fair enough whether one agrees with it or not.

But it's all hearsay and opinion. None of it is based on fact, it's like superstition. Just because a piano falls on someone's head when they walk under a ladder doesn't mean that walking under any ladder carries the immediate penalty of piano-to-face contact. The people complaining can't know the quality of the game, and they're hardly likely to change anything this late in the developmental phase, so I don't understand all the hoo-hah being made over it.

Eurypterid wrote...

But you're not being asked to. The devs are. Let them address the concerns/complaints. Don't come into the thread and say "Make your own game, if you're so smart" or "Shut up". 

You say it as if that was the only thing I mentioned. Again, you're picking and choosing what to respond to and throwing everything else out.

In any case, I don't see where this is going anyway. I'm looking forward to DA2, and I'm sure it's going to have it's own fair share of bugs, but I'm probably going to enjoy it anyway. I can't help but wonder that you'd chew me out only because I hold an opposite view, or something. Aren't mods supposed to remain neutral, or are they encouraged to get enraged at the average forum-goer?

[kaotician]

 I think it's worth noting that Bioware are now owned by EA, who are money-hungry Republican vampires. To that end,  it will be EA who have given Bioware the directive (and the money), to push on with DA2, since it will make EA much more money than otherwise. This will be the new future; EA will live off Bioware's reputation for as long as possible, steadily devaluing the brand name by pushing out sequels like they're a bottling factory, until the audience dies away, bitterly disappointed by the drop-off in quality.

[Original182]

kaotician wrote...

 I think it's worth noting that Bioware are now owned by EA, who are money-hungry Republican vampires. To that end,  it will be EA who have given Bioware the directive (and the money), to push on with DA2, since it will make EA much more money than otherwise. This will be the new future; EA will live off Bioware's reputation for as long as possible, steadily devaluing the brand name by pushing out sequels like they're a bottling factory, until the audience dies away, bitterly disappointed by the drop-off in quality.

Yeah dude I have to agree. Mods of course would give the corporate answer by saying EA is not like that, and would be supportive, as is expected of employees.

I used to play Ultima created by Origins, led by Richard Garriott. I went through the original story for Ultima 7: Serpent Isle and the original plot was more detailed. But EA rushed them to finish it sooner, and they had to cut it out, giving a watered down version of the story.
Can we forget the bugs of Ultima 9?

So Dragon Age 2 arriving sooner than expected is not unlike the tactics of EA. A mod had said that they didn't expect it to come together so soon, but I say EA pushed them. History has shown that EA likes to push people to earlier deadlines.

[Sharn01]

@Sandslayer



No on is forcing you to read the complaints on these boards. While there is a lot of complaining I have seen far more attacks on the complainers then actual complaints. If you do not agree with someone then the forum is a great place to debate your opposing position, but attacking and belittling people simply because you disagree is not reasonable, and you are no where near the worst example of this on the boards, in fact I havent really seen you make a common practice of it, but there are many who do.

[GODzilla]

Mark my words: Because of topics and reactions like this Bioware will be even more careful about giving any info on future plans. We will get less information next time. Thanks. -.-

And if I remember correctly many many people - me included - voted against the DLC as a distribution modell for important game and story content. Were are these people now?

DA2 is coming, it's a retail game once again and there will be less DLCs instead. Most should be happy. Especially after Bioware charged  money for bad DLCs like "Golems of Amgarrak".

I really don't get this community. -.-

[Korhiann]

kaotician wrote...

 I think it's worth noting that Bioware are now owned by EA, who are money-hungry Republican vampires. To that end,  it will be EA who have given Bioware the directive (and the money), to push on with DA2, since it will make EA much more money than otherwise. This will be the new future; EA will live off Bioware's reputation for as long as possible, steadily devaluing the brand name by pushing out sequels like they're a bottling factory, until the audience dies away, bitterly disappointed by the drop-off in quality.

Cant say I agree with this at all really, I understand what you mean I just dont agree with it. I remember EA from back before Bullfrog was still making games, so I also remember that EA has published some of the most popular and innovative titles in pc history.
Also the only thing EA can do is give Bioware an unreasonable deadline, which I doubt they will. EA isnt developing DA2 and they didnt develop either Origins or Awakening. Any kind of bug/glitch/problem there might be with any of the games is 100% on Biowares shoulder.
There are still many players who have problems with Dragon age, be it Origins or Awakening. Its hard to tell what the problem really is as its probably a compilation of things from mods, patches, bad engine choice to perhaps even unlucky programming early in the process.
Theres no denying that DA2 will have little to do with Origins gameplay wise, for better or worse, I just hope DA2 recieves better developer support  and their new engine is better programmed, less memory leaks.

But to answer the OP, no cant say I fell Ive been lied to. Ive been playing games for long enough to know you shouldnt take everything for its face value, simply because things change over time. Also developers and publishers will say many a things to sell their game. And unless its actually printed as a legal promise Bioware isnt obliged to fulfill their "promise".

Make no mistake though that while I think Bioware is one of the greatest developers out there, and certainly the greatest rpg developer from my point of view, but this doesnt mean they are excepted from providing quality playable(a game that has frequent crashes and/or slow downs isnt playable) products and patch support. And contrary to popular belief complaing about things that need fixing shows that you care about the product and the developer who made it.

Modifié par Korhiann, 07 septembre 2010 - 04:13 .

[Eurypterid]

I'll address this one last time:

sandslayer76 wrote...

Hmm... But I don't make the rules here, thus my interpretation of things is invalid, yes? I have to wonder whether "complaining about complainers" is anywhere near the low-level of productivity as "complaining about useless things", like I see so many people doing on more threads than just this.

It's your view that the things people are complaining about are 'useless', and that's fine. And you can certainly point out that you think it's non-productive or useless to complain about these things. But not in the fashion you did.

Yeah, they do have that right. Doesn't that also mean I have the right to form an opposite opinion? You can't only pick and choose what parts of rules to interpret as supporting your case and throw out the rest of it. Also, I've already come to the realization that I was wrong in saying "shut up", so I fail to see why your statement is relevant.

Not only were you wrong to tell people to 'shut up', your entore post was nothing but a rant and insults at those who are complaining. That's the issue. You can certainly point out that "Hey, maybe it would be a good idea to wait and see what the finished product is like before jumping to conclusions (that's generally the point of view I take). But to categorize their complaints or concerns as 'useless' and 'non-productive' while also throwing around terms like '****ing' and 'retarded' is nothing more insulting people.

But it's all hearsay and opinion. None of it is based on fact, it's like superstition. Just because a piano falls on someone's head when they walk under a ladder doesn't mean that walking under any ladder carries the immediate penalty of piano-to-face contact. The people complaining can't know the quality of the game, and they're hardly likely to change anything this late in the developmental phase, so I don't understand all the hoo-hah being made over it.

Of course it's all opinion. But so is the opposite view that the game will be great, despite the announced changes. Are you suggesting that we only allow that particular viewpoint to be expressed?

You say it as if that was the only thing I mentioned. Again, you're picking and choosing what to respond to and throwing everything else out.

No, I'm not. Re-read your original post (I'll quote it below for you). Theonly thing your post does is insult anyone who (in your opinion) is negative about DA2:

sandslayer76 wrote...

This comment is directed at everyone who has made non-legitimate complaints or useless, negative opinion statements about DA2.

Or...
OR all of you can quit your ****ing about Bioware's direction as a
company. Sure, you're the consumer, but thinking that your own, single
voice will change anything is utterly retarded. Complaining about what
Bioware is doing without even possessing a knowledge of the work that
they're doing behind closed doors is akin to an elementary schoolboy
punching a locker when he's pissed off. Sure, it vents steam, but it
also doesn't help anybody.

If any of you care so much, then get a
degree in game design and found an opposing company, then use your
OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR methods in creating games to kick Bioware's ass in
the market.

Seriously. Shut up.

Are you saying your post was not insulting? Or that it was productively providing a counterpoint? I certainly don't see it that way. It's posts like the above that start flame wars.

In any case, I don't see where this is going anyway. I'm looking forward to DA2, and I'm sure it's going to have it's own fair share of bugs, but I'm probably going to enjoy it anyway.

That's a fair opinon, and is well put. No insults to anyone else. And to be honaest, it's how I feel. I was concerned about some of the tings I'd read when the game was first announced. But having seen some clips and read more about it, those concerns are mostly allayed. I'm pretty confident I'll like the game a lot (although I imagine there will be some things I don't care for, but that's true of every game I've bought). But I can also see why other people may still be concerned.

I can't help but wonder that you'd chew me out only because I hold an opposite view, or something. Aren't mods supposed to remain neutral, or are they encouraged to get enraged at the average forum-goer?

No one is 'enraged' at you. Least of all me (and I hardly think I 'chewed you out'). What I'm trying to point out here is you can post your opinon about the game and you can disagree with other's opinions. What you can't do is toss insults at other forum members. People are complaining and concerned about the game and they're posting that. Your original post was aimed squarely at other forum members, not at the game. That's the reason I stepped in.

[the_one_54321]

GODzilla_GSPB wrote...
And if I remember correctly many many people - me included - voted against the DLC as a distribution modell for important game and story content. Were are these people now?

DA2 is coming, it's a retail game once again and there will be less DLCs instead. Most should be happy. Especially after Bioware charged  money for bad DLCs like "Golems of Amgarrak".

I really don't get this community. -.-

Secconded! And I've been speaking out against DLC for... well pretty much constantly whenever it comes up.

[Lord_Saulot]

No, I don't feel that I have been lied to.

I don't exactly like the fact that DAO support is ending earlier that expected, and I do not know how good DA2 would be. But I know that plans change constantly, and stating an expectation at one point in time is not some sort of binding promise that it will never change. I also know, having played games for more than a few years, that statements like "2 years of DLC" are always to be taken with a grain of salt. I hope they turn out true, but they almost never do.

In any case, I actually hope the DLC model is dropped entirely, and the old game + expansion(s) model is restored.  For example, instead of DAO having game/expansion/DLC, I would have much preferred game/expansion/expansion.  DLC just isn't that great compared to full scale expansions.

Modifié par Lord_Saulot, 07 septembre 2010 - 04:09 .

[MightySword]

for me I'm glad it's going this way, the only wrong this would be if DA2 is a 20 hours long full price retail ... which I hope won't be the case.

The first and only DLC I ever bought (and I don't mean for DA, but the first DLC I ever bought for gaming) was Warden Keep, and it did a fantastic job about convincing me not to touch another DLC ... ever. I did read up all the review for them though ... and I think I made the right decision.

Another reason is my playing style does not sit well with me once I finish a game from start to finish, the only thing worth adding (and paying for) to me is something that can "alter" the experience, or "change" the ending. To that end, the things that is added need to be integrated with the core game which I don't think the current DLC model is. Most of them are just "self-contained", I'm not interested in an extra quest, another dungeon to crawl, or a new armor set. I have nothing against people who do, it's just not for me. So yeah, cheer on the DA2 news, someone lost is another one gain, too bad it works out that way.

As for other things ... I gave up on speculating on the internal affair of any company since I think the only thing you could get from it is somewhere down the line you have the chance of saying "see, I told you so" ... you're right or wrong, is really means squat in term of the actual game. Think about it, say you buy a Toyota and the gearbox doesn't work as intended. When you take it to them, do you really care if they tell you it's the fault of the assembly line, or it's the component manufacture? I wouldn't, I will just say fix this, or I'll take my business else where. Same case here, Bioware and EA is one entity now as far as I concern, and whatever they do to each other -screw each others up or go on a honeymoon- doesn't really matter to me. I only look at their final product, if I'm happy I'll buy it, if I not I won't. Simple.

Modifié par MightySword, 07 septembre 2010 - 04:38 .

[AlanC9]

MightySword wrote...

Another reason is my playing style does not sit well with me once I finish a game from start to finish, the only thing worth adding (and paying for) to me is something that can "alter" the experience, or "change" the ending.

Would Witch Hunt qualify?

[Wygrath]

sandslayer76 is way too argumentative. A freaking mod has been more than generous with the guy and he still persists to throw flaming poop around to see where it sticks. (credits to Jim Butcher)



I've participated in many online communities via forums over the years and this is the most lenient I've ever seen. The guy would have gotten a temp ban at least in just about every other forum I frequent.



In short, stop throwing flaming poop around. It stinks up the forums and is hard to clean up.

[Valdrane78]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We have addressed this before, but to save you actually looking as I can tell you didn't, I'll say it again here.

When we made the promise of 2 years of DLC for DA:O we did not expect DA2 to come together so well or so quickly.  Once it was realized that it would be ready early next year (now announced as March 8) we chose to release a brand new game instead of delaying it to keep a (now) outdated promise.

While we understand some fans would like us to continue making DLC for DA:O, we are focussing instead on making Dragon Age 2 a better overall experience than Dragon Age: Origins and we're confidant that you will enjoy Dragon Age 2.

Exactly, why settle for a few more small DLC when you can get a brand new all powerful game sooner than expected.  While I would enjoy seeing a bit more of the Origins world, I am far more excited about getting a new full length game with hours upon hours of discovery.

[joey_mork84]

Do I feel lied to? Not really.. It's all marketing. But I knew from the start that there wouldn't be 2 full years worth of DLC, not with such a largely popular game. Am I disappointed that the DLC is done? Yes. Was hoping for more, but I knew it would be a stretch to offer any more. Am I disappointed about it enough to rage about it or fling insults at other posters? Not in the slightest. Its not that big a deal lol.

[Uzzy]

DA2 is coming together so quickly that they don't have the time to put in dual wielding warriors. Just saying.

[cobretti1818]

Just waiting for the "We will support DA2 with DLC for 2 years" statement.

[foodstuffs]

Dual Wielding Warrior will be a DLC....

[moonandserpent]

If you buy DL via an online store then it is Downloadable Content! And at a much better price than $10 per hour+ of gameplay that the recent DLC gave. Seriously, I can't believe you're complaining about the sequel coming out instead of more mini-stories.

[Kail Ashton]

lol really? are people still complaining bout this? good grief you must cut your wrists everytime a games release date gets set back, i truely pity duke nukem forever fans if their like you people

[BroBear Berbil]

I don't feel lied to, nor do I mind that we got less than a year of additional content instead of two years. Two seemed like a long time anyway. At this point I've played and replayed DA so much and I imagine I have a few more plays left in me by the time DA2 comes out; but a year from now without a DA2 being released? I doubt I'd still want to play or buy DLC -- expansions possibly.

Chris Priestly wrote...
 we are focussing instead on making Dragon Age 2 a better overall experience than Dragon Age: Origins and we're confidant that you will enjoy Dragon Age 2.

Well, I don't doubt the game will be a blast to play. I just hope it's something I'll want to play as much as Origins.

[MightySword]

AlanC9 wrote...
Would Witch Hunt qualify?

Maybe, sadly I have nil interest in the character Morrigan though, so I'll probably pass for that reason;)

[the_one_54321]

AlanC9 wrote...

MightySword wrote...
Another reason is my playing style does not sit well with me once I finish a game from start to finish, the only thing worth adding (and paying for) to me is something that can "alter" the experience, or "change" the ending.

Would Witch Hunt qualify?

All indications point to no. Witch Hunt, according to most reviews is mostly unrelated to Morrigan except for a short conversation at the very end, in which she answer next to nothing about herself.
<_<

[TimeLordCat]

It is quite clear that Bioware does not understand what they have created.  DA:O is one of the most intense experiences in gaming I have had and I would imagine others feel the same.  So its like being dumped by your lover.  Its a painful grieving processes that one does over come.  How would Bioware feel if no one and I mean no one picked up DA2 once it was released?  Or the expected sales were just not there because DA:O lovers just didn't pick it up until a commitment to DA:O DLC was put in place.  Just wondering.