79 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

My point was though that in the game, I definitely prefer full auto to 3 round burst and that real world data about accuracy with regards to this is kind of pointless when we're talking about a game in which those rules don't apply. I don't think the fact that the mattock is a semi auto weapon is the reason anyone dislikes it. If anything what I've seen is that many people thought it was overpowered but it seems to be that's only the case on a soldier if it's overpowered at all.

[termokanden]

There have been a lot of people saying it's overpowered. Now in this thread it's being said that the Viper is better.

I think the Mattock an extremely good weapon for a soldier because the (gametime) DPS is insane with Adrenaline Rush. For everyone else, I don't know. I've always liked the Viper myself. But I would rather use Mattock + Widow on a soldier.

Modifié par termokanden, 06 septembre 2010 - 01:24 .

[Aradace]

sinosleep wrote...

My point was though that in the game, I definitely prefer full auto to 3 round burst and that real world data about accuracy with regards to this is kind of pointless when we're talking about a game in which those rules don't apply. I don't think the fact that the mattock is a semi auto weapon is the reason anyone dislikes it. If anything what I've seen is that many people thought it was overpowered but it seems to be that's only the case on a soldier if it's overpowered at all.

I lol at the people who complain about things being "overpowered" especially when it is only "partially" so in the hands of one class.  Case in point, I love the Mattock, it's my favorite rifle (unless Im using the Viper on my Infiltrator) and it's the ONLY rifle I use with any character that uses ARs.  Hell, Im even rolling an Adept and going to get the AR training for him just so I can see how Singlularity + Mattock works out lol

[Kronner]

I love the Mattock.

IMHO it is far better choice than Viper for all classes unless you want purely long range weapon.

[termokanden]

I would prefer the Viper on caster classes if it hadn't been for the awful scope effect when you cast.

[Kronner]

Yes, Viper would be much better without it. The zoom-in is the sole reason I never liked Viper except on my Revenant Soldier.

Mattock does not limit your view and you can fire much more efficiently and it is more versatile weapon to boot.

[sinosleep]

Ok, I just performed a test of point blank adrenaline rush on YMIR armor with the mattock and the revenant. Holy ****, does AR completely change the mattock. It takes 2 adrenaline rushes for the revenant to destroy the armor, the mattock can do it in one. ONE adrenaline rush pass to completely merc YMIR armor. That's pretty damned obscene.

[termokanden]

That's exactly it. Most people won't be utilizing the high rate of fire, it's very difficult if not impossible outside AR. But using AR, it's easy.

So it's likely people will be firing as fast in AR as outside AR, but at 100 to 140% increased damage.

With the Revenant, they will be firing half as fast or even slower.

Modifié par termokanden, 06 septembre 2010 - 01:51 .

[sinosleep]

I'm an idiot, don't know why I just typed that. Yeah, you get off entire clips with AR, and it's definitely impossible to do that without. I've been challenging people to go here and test it out for themselves. I averaged around65 clicks or 6.5 clicks per second without having to contort myself into a position which wouldn't be playable just to click faster. And that actually puts me in the 2nd fastest clicking group.

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Whoo-hoo! 83 clicks for me:P! But actually I'm on the xbox, I think using your middle finger to feather is faster.

[sinosleep]

And even that would only net you half a clip. I say no way it can be done while actually aiming at something unless cheating is involved.

[termokanden]

I'm on the xbox. I CAN actually click very fast, but it means I'm hammering the controller so much I have trouble aiming.

"Feathering" the trigger doesn't really seem to give me the highest click rate.

Modifié par termokanden, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:45 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

^ You don't need to pull the trigger all the way, just enough to fire then release. Practice enough and you'll have more control over your strength. In any case, it's definately slower to pull the trigger than clicking a mouse, and even then there's no way anyone can empty the clip to the theoretical RoF. The fastest I can
do it is 2.5 secs with my middle finger on the controller without aiming. Thankfully
heavy armored foes are also slow so I don't need to aim unless I'm going for headshots or from distance.

[termokanden]

I can't click it as fast that way, but honestly I haven't practiced. Don't need to, I have AR.



I'd actually rather not spend ridiculous amounts of ammo outside AR if I can help it.

[JaegerBane]

numotsbane wrote...

I've come to the view that the mattock is basically an upgraded heavy pistol. its basically what you get if you put the predators ROF with the Carnifex's damage, and then add more bullets. So its really good, but... I'm not sure. it doesn't always do it for me. and I already have heavy pistols and a rapid fire weapon, so AR training seems unecessary.

Good point. That said, the question then inevitably gets to 'is this why you picked an assault rifle'? It has the best DPS by far but then you have to question whether it's style is different enough from your heavy pistol to justify leaving the Revenant behind in the case of being a soldier.

I'm on the fence, to be honest. As far as I'm concerned the best 'true' assault rifle in the game is the Locust

[NICKjnp]

The reason I prefer the mattock is because of the zoom effect. Since I play adepts (and a couple of vanguards... like they are adepts) I prefer the mattock because when I bring up the power wheel (I'm on the 360) I don't have that zoom in effect. The mattock destroys defenses fast enough that I don't need the extra couple of seconds. I guess I'm efficient enough that I know to take cover (or mock cover) when my barrier fails.

[Mr_Raider]

Yup. Sentinels, adepts and engineers can get through the whole game with Carnifex/Locust combo. This thread is more aimed at non soldiers, because soldiers can have the viper and the mattock and alternate as needed.



What these tests prove is that for non soldiers, assault rifle isn't the hands down best choice for bonus weapon. The Mattock trades blows quite evenly with the Viper or carnifex given the situation. Alternatively, shot gun is valid choice, and you can just keep on playing with the carnifex and SMG.



I still think the Locust is the best damn all purpose weapon in the game.

[JaegerBane]

Mr_Raider wrote...
I still think the Locust is the best damn all purpose weapon in the game.

Agreed. There simply is never a situation where it's a poor weapon to have to hand.

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

numotsbane wrote...

I've come to the view that the mattock is basically an upgraded heavy pistol. its basically what you get if you put the predators ROF with the Carnifex's damage, and then add more bullets. So its really good, but... I'm not sure. it doesn't always do it for me. and I already have heavy pistols and a rapid fire weapon, so AR training seems unecessary.

Good point. That said, the question then inevitably gets to 'is this why you picked an assault rifle'? It has the best DPS by far but then you have to question whether it's style is different enough from your heavy pistol to justify leaving the Revenant behind in the case of being a soldier.

No it's not just a heavy pistol.

What justifies leaving the Revenant behind for me is getting both the Mattock and the Widow. One allows the highest gametime DPS with AR, the other a beast of a sniper rifle.

I'm on the fence, to be honest. As far as I'm concerned the best 'true' assault rifle in the game is the Locust

It does behave like that. I would like a slightly larger magazine and better sound though.

My casters use the Locust mainly. Vanguard, shotgun. Soldier, Mattock + Widow. I haven't played infiltrator as the only class

Modifié par termokanden, 06 septembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[JaegerBane]

Aradace wrote...
That's kind of the point Im making lol....The ONLY reason people are hating on it is because it NOT full auto.  I personally love the Mattock because it's frickin great.  I get to control the amount of ammo I use and can drop more enemies (on my soldier) with it in a single AR than I ever could with any of the full auto weapons.  Statisically though, 3 shot burst is a hell of a lot more accurate than full auto (And yes, I know this for a fact lol.) because with full auto is "spray and pray" and thats just silly basically.  3 shot burst, you have a bit more control over where your shots go (still not a big fan of 3 shot burst myself either but still.)  Now the Incisor, I was one of the folks wanting the sodding thing until I got it and found out how rediculously useless it is (except in the hands of a squaddie) and still defaulted back to my Viper for my Infiltrator.

But yea, to me the only people I see really complaining about the Mattock are those that were expecting another full auto rifle.  I could be wrong, and peeking in on threads like these at the wrong time....But it's what I see mainly. XD

Not to tread on old ground but...

Who's claiming they hate the mattock because it's semi-auto? The biggest complaint I've heard about it is it's ammo supply, and even then, it's generally made alongside the admission that ammo isn't as bad as other stuff (Vindicator being a perfect example).

[JohnnyBeGood2]

termokanden wrote...
It does behave like that. I would like a slightly larger magazine and better sound though.

Yes, the locust needs a better sound.

[OniGanon]

Kronner wrote...
I love the Mattock.
IMHO it is far better choice than Viper for all classes unless you want purely long range weapon.

That's the thing though. People pick up the Mattock because they want a long ranged weapon, they want a scopeless Viper. The only thing the Mattock really has on the Viper on non-Soldier classes is the lack of scope. If one can deal with the scope zoom thing, the Viper is the superior long ranged weapon. If the shots in the video were aimed at the head, the Viper would have wiped the floor with the Mattock.

The ranged bonus isn't that big a deal unless you're in the habit of regularly getting into the enemy's face (and if you are, you should have chosen shotgun training). 8m is pretty darn close, y'know.

Modifié par OniGanon, 06 septembre 2010 - 04:35 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

OniGanon wrote...

Kronner wrote...
I love the Mattock.
IMHO it is far better choice than Viper for all classes unless you want purely long range weapon.

That's the thing though. People pick up the Mattock because they want a long ranged weapon, they want a scopeless Viper. The only thing the Mattock really has on the Viper on non-Soldier classes is the lack of scope. If one can deal with the scope zoom thing, the Viper is the superior long ranged weapon. If the shots in the video were aimed at the head, the Viper would have wiped the floor with the Mattock.

viper kick is also a factor, mattock has no kick.. mattock is point once and tap, tap, tap. Viper is point, tap, repoint, tap, repoint, tap.

if you don't take a half sec to reaim with the viper you increase the chance to miss by alot.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 06 septembre 2010 - 04:55 .

[RGFrog]

Really, Johnny? I've not problem with going through a clip on the viper without even bothering to re-aim.

Sure, there's a little rise, but if you begin at the neck or upper chest that puts the majority of shots right in the head on a run.

[OniGanon]

Yeah I've never really found the Viper's recoil troublesome either. The ROF is too slow for that to be a worry.