458 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

Seifz wrote...

I would be very, very surprised if most gamers were 30+.

EDIT:  I just went to that link.  It makes a lot of claims, but it doesn't actually have anything to support those claims!  Regardless, it looks like they're including anything that might be considered a video game, including mobile phone games and things like Farmville.  That's not really important to a game like Dragon Age, which targets a much, much different audience.

I don't see how this is such a leap of logic for you.  I'm 23 and I've been playing video games since I was four or five years old, and I don't really see myself stopping once I hit some magical threshold of 30.

With this in mind, considering how long the gaming industry has been around, how does it not make sense that gamers in the 80s are still gamers in 2010?  As time progresses, and people age, the older will certainly outnumber the younger, new gamers; new gamers who, by the way, are more the "OMG EXPLOSIONS GERZ OF WAR" market, rather than Dragon Age's market which is what you yourself have claimed is the focus here.

Really, I don't see why you even need a citation.  This is just simple logic.

[AuraofMana]

Marionetten wrote...

AuraofMana wrote...

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/22-The-Witcher
Let's just say the man was on the money.

So, you're just parroting Yahtzee?

That certainly explains a lot. You should work on your funny though.

I don't recall saying I based my entire view on him but it's just typical some internet tough guy will try to do that. Anyone who disagrees with you is inevitably wrong, hating, flaming, and trolling MIRITE?
I was just stating he summed up pretty well how I felt about the game (surprise! Agreeing is different than parroting). All I have to say is that even though when I played WoW, I fell asleep around the 4th hour, I still managed it got to the 4th hour unlike this game.

[Marionetten]

AuraofMana wrote...

Anyone who disagrees with you is inevitably wrong, hating, flaming, and trolling MIRITE?

There's a difference between disagreeing and just lying out of your ass.

As it's now pretty obvious that you're just trolling on The Witcher instead of being woefully ignorant I'm going to go ahead and moderate myself before someone else does it for me.

Modifié par Marionetten, 06 septembre 2010 - 08:08 .

[AuraofMana]

Marionetten wrote...
There's a difference between disagreeing and just lying out of your ass.

You would know about lying out of your ass wouldn't you?

[Quercus]

AuraofMana wrote...

Marionetten wrote...
There's a difference between disagreeing and just lying out of your ass.

You would know about lying out of your ass wouldn't you?

I know about it too, and I can tell you it stinks.

[Maverick827]

Comedic entertainment critics like Yahtzee and Rod Hilton (The Editing Room) are like walking billboards for Fridge Logic. They'll mention valid oddities, albeit in overstatement for comedic effect, but whether or not you let these little nuggets of information affect your overall opinion/experience is entirely up to you.

[ErichHartmann]

Ugh, why do these threads degrade into fights? Can't we keep ourselves emotionally detached from the issue at hand and have a pleasant debate?

[Saibh]

simfamSP wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Now, where did that topic go...?

Regardless, I think it's funny people treat the Witcher like it's the second RPG coming, when many of the things about the game that are present in DA2 as well are being faulted in DA2. It's amazing that the same people who say that having a predetermined character means the game will never be good will turn around and praise Geralt of Rivia. Besides that, considering we've gotten one game out of CD Projekt, and you can bet it was heavily inspired by BioWare, I'm not sure they're exactly on the same level.

I'm sorry, I think it's plain silly that people are acting like The Witcher will be the most fabulous thing to come out of cRPG gaming with the one game they have, and can't be bothered to trust BioWare with their many excellent games.

I'm going to get it, and I think it's gonna be pretty good. There.

gallery.racoonfink.com/d/9574-6/shrek-2-puss-in-boots

Will you forgive me? :crying:

No.

[AuraofMana]

Maverick827 wrote...

Comedic entertainment critics like Yahtzee and Rod Hilton (The Editing Room) are like walking billboards for Fridge Logic. They'll mention valid oddities, albeit in overstatement for comedic effect, but whether or not you let these little nuggets of information affect your overall opinion/experience is entirely up to you.

I agree with you on this, but however, as soon as I post a link to a review, it must imply that I got all my views solely from the video (even though I've repeatedly stated I've played the game, in fact, I am pretty sure TW1 came out before Yahtzee even started ZP). Then of course, these awesome people jump to the next spot in their "logic" chain, which is to assume I agree with that man on everything because they think I parrot him on one.
Oh well, at least now they get to focus on one part. Their continual illogical attempt to compare DA:O and TW1 at least stopped.

[Quercus]

AuraofMana wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Comedic entertainment critics like Yahtzee and Rod Hilton (The Editing Room) are like walking billboards for Fridge Logic. They'll mention valid oddities, albeit in overstatement for comedic effect, but whether or not you let these little nuggets of information affect your overall opinion/experience is entirely up to you.

I agree with you on this, but however, as soon as I post a link to a review, it must imply that I got all my views solely from the video (even though I've repeatedly stated I've played the game, in fact, I am pretty sure TW1 came out before Yahtzee even started ZP). Then of course, these awesome people jump to the next spot in their "logic" chain, which is to assume I agree with that man on everything because they think I parrot him on one.
Oh well, at least now they get to focus on one part. Their continual illogical attempt to compare DA:O and TW1 at least stopped.

You were the one who lied about facts.

You said TW1 is a grind game, while it's not true.
I dislike grind as much as you, yesterday I uninstalled Final Fantasy 14 because of the heavy grind.

TW1 main story doesn't have grind, and most of the side quest that do will be able to complete through the cause of the main story, just like DA:O. But since DA:O is more lineaire you can pretty much complete all the grind sidequest through out the story.

And yes, I allready agreed that TW1 sidequest were mostly grind quests, but you just made those grind quests the main thing of TW1 and that the game is crap because of it, which is pretty much a slap in the face of us who actually played through the entire game. Or in short, you decided the worth of the game, and pretty much decided the game only exist out of grind gameplay.

This is not true, the game isn't about grind, nor is it the most worthsome thing to mention.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 06 septembre 2010 - 08:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

I wonder how many laughs the Bioware folks get out of the fact that by far the longest and most divisive posts on this board are about love interests, boobs, and sex scenes.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 septembre 2010 - 08:24 .

[Lord_Valandil]

There goes the neighborhood...

[Blastback]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Something similar to Mass Effect 1, you saw enough of the sex scene that it let your imagination do the rest but without making it feel like it was only there for fan service.

This.  Mass Effect got it right.  It was tasteful and apropriate.  That's were I think it should go.

[Seifz]

Merci357 wrote...

Seifz wrote...
I would be very, very surprised if most gamers were 30+.

EDIT:  I just went to that link.  It makes a lot of claims, but it doesn't actually have anything to support those claims!  Regardless, it looks like they're including anything that might be considered a video game, including mobile phone games and things like Farmville.  That's not really important to a game like Dragon Age, which targets a much, much different audience.

Really depends on the definition of "gamer", I guess. However, keep in mind that many, many gamers are like me, indeed 30+ and grown up with a NES or Sega Master System or C64, or even an Atari 2600. I just never stopped to play video/computer games - and neither did most of my friends or family. The average age of gamers will evidently only get older.

The point is that figures for the industry as a whole aren't very helpful when you're talking about a specific game with a specific target audience.  If you took a survey of people who played DA:O, I bet it would look much different than what you see on that website.

What's really surprising is just how many slots in the Top 20 Computer Games are used up by Blizzard titles!  They've got 7 games in the top 20, including WoW, WoW: TBC, WoW: WotLK, WoW Battle Chest, Diablo Battle Chest, WC3 Battle Chest, and Starcraft Battle Chest at #15.  That game is 12 years old!  Damn.

Anyway, here's to hoping that BioWare does something better in DA2 than they did in DA:O.  Eliminating sex entirely, or just fading to black, is much better than the bra and undies scenes that we got in DA:O.  Nudity is probably not necessary.  There's not much else to say since we've done this topic about a dozen times now.

--- EDIT ---

Maverick827 wrote...

I don't see how this is such a leap of logic for you.  I'm 23 and I've
been playing video games since I was four or five years old, and I
don't really see myself stopping once I hit some magical threshold of
30.

With this in mind, considering how long the gaming industry
has been around, how does it not make sense that gamers in the 80s are
still gamers in 2010?  As time progresses, and people age, the older
will certainly outnumber the younger, new gamers; new gamers who, by
the way, are more the "OMG EXPLOSIONS GERZ OF WAR" market, rather than
Dragon Age's market which is what you yourself have claimed is the
focus here.

Really, I don't see why you even need a citation.  This is just simple logic.

When I was a kid, the NES was big.  I played games.  My friends played games.  My parents?  Not so much.  Girls?  Hardly.  I'm about the same age as you, and of course I still play.  I'll still play when I'm older than 30, too.  However, you're still 7 years shy of 30.  That's a lot of years.  Anyone more than a few years older than us probably didn't play game when they were younger because the industry was still so young and gaming wasn't chic.

Sure, we grew up and we're still playing.  But we weren't a very large population to begin with.  That's why it's surprising.

Modifié par Seifz, 06 septembre 2010 - 08:40 .

[Nighteye2]

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

[AuraofMana]

Shiroukai wrote...
You were the one who lied about facts.

LOL K.

Shiroukai wrote...
You said TW1 is a grind game, while it's not true.
I dislike grind as much as you, yesterday I uninstalled Final Fantasy 14 because of the heavy grind.

TW1 main story doesn't have grind, and most of the side quest that do will be able to complete through the cause of the main story, just like DA:O. But since DA:O is more lineaire you can pretty much complete all the grind sidequest through out the story.

Define grind, because I don't think you understand what it means. Grind means going out your way to kill monsters over and over again. This is the overarching theme of the quests in TW1. Somebody gave some examples of "grind" quests in DA:O, which really was a fail comparison because those quests do not require you to grind. The materials they require are on the way to your main plots, so either way you'll have to gather the required materials. That is completely different from what TW1 has. I've been stating this the whole time while you people just counter argue with MORE of such terrible comparisons, how can I take you guys as logical?

Shiroukai wrote...
And yes, I allready agreed that TW1 sidequest were mostly grind quests, but you just made those grind quests the main thing of TW1 and that the game is crap because of it, which is pretty much a slap in the face of us who actually played through the entire game. Or in short, you decided the worth of the game, and pretty much decided the game only exist out of grind gameplay.

This is not true, the game isn't about grind, nor is it the most worthsome thing to mention.

Because that's all I experienced in two hours of gameplay and I am not about to spend more because I was seeing more grind coming. I am not about to grind more so I can find if the game is actually worth it. If the game has been boring for 2 hours, it's dead to me. You may enchant it with magical words and extol it, but I am not going through the grind to find what you are speaking of, then decide whether or not I prefer it myself. This is a problem with a lot of developers these days, where they don't realize the first impression is very important. Take some recent games full of bugs and such. The argument that the developers will patch is pathetic if the game is pretty much unplayable. I don't care if they'll patch it later because I've already given up on the game.
And if you watched the Yahtzee review, he claims this is a FIRST IMPRESSION of the game, not a full review. I agree with him on that because that's how I felt when I played the game.
If you want to talk about being slapped on the face because of a game, I feel humiliated by the facts that people like you are praising TW and claiming Bioware should learn from it when even yourself admit it has overwhelming flaws like grind quests and that Bioware games have never had such sheer amount of problems.

Also, I don't understand how people are praising TW2 and are claiming Bioware needs to learn from it. The god damn game isn't even out yet. The only logical source you can pull is TW1, which is full of grind. Yes, it's full of grind. Most of the quests in the game is grind, and arguing that they are sidequests still does not excuse the fact that the game is grind. That's like arguing you don't really NEED to level on WoW, so asserting that leveling on WoW is grind is not true.
Remember this: it takes the overwhelming majority of a game to define it as a good game, while it only takes a small number of game aspects to make it a ****ty game.

Anyway, enough of this issue. I am not going to reinstall that game and grind again just to get to the so called "good parts". We are not going to convince each other so just get back on topic. You can play TW1 and TW2 all you want, just leave it out of my DA.

[Lord_Valandil]

Nighteye2 wrote...

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

This, or ME1-like scenes.

[FreezaSama]

Shadow_broker wrote...

How much nudity do you want/expect from DA2 and why.

As much as possible.

Realistically, I don't think tasteful nudity should be avoided. The romance scenes in Mass Effect 1 were perfect. I can't fathom as to why they opted to keep everyone clothed in every Bioware game that followed.

Modifié par FreezaSama, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:10 .

[Seifz]

Nighteye2 wrote...

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

Hollywood-like sex scenes?  Talk about censorship.  If you want to avoid an NC-17 rating, you pretty much need to do all of the following:

1.  No gay sex.
2.  No positions other than missionary and (sparingly) reverse missionary.
3.  Nothing weird, no fetishes, not more than two people at once.
4.  No genitals, pubic hair, or really anything except for breasts.
5.  You better not zoom out to far to show the thrusting.
6.  Regardless of camera angle, you better not exceed X thrusts.

There are exceptions (especially from the larger studios, who tend to get away with more), but generally sex scenes in Hollywood films are severely restricted.  There's a documentary about this called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated".  Here:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/

I'm still sticking with fade to black if we must keep these sex-focused romances.

[Quercus]

AuraofMana wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...
You were the one who lied about facts.

LOL K.

Shiroukai wrote...
You said TW1 is a grind game, while it's not true.
I dislike grind as much as you, yesterday I uninstalled Final Fantasy 14 because of the heavy grind.

TW1 main story doesn't have grind, and most of the side quest that do will be able to complete through the cause of the main story, just like DA:O. But since DA:O is more lineaire you can pretty much complete all the grind sidequest through out the story.

Define grind, because I don't think you understand what it means. Grind means going out your way to kill monsters over and over again. This is the overarching theme of the quests in TW1. Somebody gave some examples of "grind" quests in DA:O, which really was a fail comparison because those quests do not require you to grind. The materials they require are on the way to your main plots, so either way you'll have to gather the required materials. That is completely different from what TW1 has. I've been stating this the whole time while you people just counter argue with MORE of such terrible comparisons, how can I take you guys as logical?

Shiroukai wrote...
And yes, I allready agreed that TW1 sidequest were mostly grind quests, but you just made those grind quests the main thing of TW1 and that the game is crap because of it, which is pretty much a slap in the face of us who actually played through the entire game. Or in short, you decided the worth of the game, and pretty much decided the game only exist out of grind gameplay.

This is not true, the game isn't about grind, nor is it the most worthsome thing to mention.

Because that's all I experienced in two hours of gameplay and I am not about to spend more because I was seeing more grind coming. I am not about to grind more so I can find if the game is actually worth it. If the game has been boring for 2 hours, it's dead to me. You may enchant it with magical words and extol it, but I am not going through the grind to find what you are speaking of, then decide whether or not I prefer it myself. This is a problem with a lot of developers these days, where they don't realize the first impression is very important. Take some recent games full of bugs and such. The argument that the developers will patch is pathetic if the game is pretty much unplayable. I don't care if they'll patch it later because I've already given up on the game.
And if you watched the Yahtzee review, he claims this is a FIRST IMPRESSION of the game, not a full review. I agree with him on that because that's how I felt when I played the game.
If you want to talk about being slapped on the face because of a game, I feel humiliated by the facts that people like you are praising TW and claiming Bioware should learn from it when even yourself admit it has overwhelming flaws like grind quests and that Bioware games have never had such sheer amount of problems.

Also, I don't understand how people are praising TW2 and are claiming Bioware needs to learn from it. The god damn game isn't even out yet. The only logical source you can pull is TW1, which is full of grind. Yes, it's full of grind. Most of the quests in the game is grind, and arguing that they are sidequests still does not excuse the fact that the game is grind. That's like arguing you don't really NEED to level on WoW, so asserting that leveling on WoW is grind is not true.
Remember this: it takes the overwhelming majority of a game to define it as a good game, while it only takes a small number of game aspects to make it a ****ty game.

Anyway, enough of this issue. I am not going to reinstall that game and grind again just to get to the so called "good parts". We are not going to convince each other so just get back on topic. You can play TW1 and TW2 all you want, just leave it out of my DA.

I don't care about you not wanting to play TW1 or TW2.

I do care about you misinforming people that the game is full of grind, which it is NOT, and you playing it for 2 hours is a weak stronghold for you argument.

I didn't have to go out of my way to play the game, which is contradicting with your way of discribing a grind. Like I said before, and yet again will be ignored by you so you can twist your 2 hour crap thruth, I completed the side quest through the course of the main story which has no grind, NO GRIND.

I feel humiliated by the facts that people like you who are twisting thruths to enhence their arguments, are enjoying a game like DA:O.

If you don't like the witcher, then state an opinion, not false fact.

[Lord_Valandil]

Seifz wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

Hollywood-like sex scenes?  Talk about censorship.  If you want to avoid an NC-17 rating, you pretty much need to do all of the following:

1.  No gay sex.
2.  No positions other than missionary and (sparingly) reverse missionary.
3.  Nothing weird, no fetishes, not more than two people at once.
4.  No genitals, pubic hair, or really anything except for breasts.
5.  You better not zoom out to far to show the thrusting.
6.  Regardless of camera angle, you better not exceed X thrusts.

There are exceptions (especially from the larger studios, who tend to get away with more), but generally sex scenes in Hollywood films are severely restricted.  There's a documentary about this called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated".  Here:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/

I'm still sticking with fade to black if we must keep these sex-focused romances.

Well, we didn't have anything weird, or genitals, thrusting or anything like that in DA:O.
We got diapers and undies. I support the idea of a cinematic feel, though.

[AtreiyaN7]

This isn't Borschtbeet in disguise from the ME2 forums, is it? Who ELSE starts silly threads about "scrogging" anyway. Bah - keep it to one forum at least. *snort*

** EDIT: at least I'm pretty sure his name was Borschtbeet or something to that effect, but I haven't visited the ME2 forums much recently.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:23 .

[Pedrak]

Seifz wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

Hollywood-like sex scenes?  Talk about censorship.  If you want to avoid an NC-17 rating, you pretty much need to do all of the following:

1.  No gay sex.
2.  No positions other than missionary and (sparingly) reverse missionary.
3.  Nothing weird, no fetishes, not more than two people at once.
4.  No genitals, pubic hair, or really anything except for breasts.
5.  You better not zoom out to far to show the thrusting.
6.  Regardless of camera angle, you better not exceed X thrusts.

There are exceptions (especially from the larger studios, who tend to get away with more), but generally sex scenes in Hollywood films are severely restricted.  There's a documentary about this called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated".  Here:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/

I'm still sticking with fade to black if we must keep these sex-focused romances.

This seems odd, as many love scenes in PG-13 movies are at least as explicit as DAO's - which was a M-rated game and therefore aimed at a more mature audience.

Anyway, I think adding some nudity to the otherwise pretty tame DAO sequences would be enough. Fade to black for those who choose to disable this feature.

Modifié par Pedrak, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:25 .