458 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Valandil]

Pedrak wrote...
Anyway, I think adding nudity to the otherwise pretty tame DAO sequences would be enough. Fade to black for those who choose to disable this feature.

That could work, as there are options to disappear the blood in some games.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:26 .

[Quercus]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Pedrak wrote...
Anyway, I think adding nudity to the otherwise pretty tame DAO sequences would be enough. Fade to black for those who choose to disable this feature.

That could work, as there are options to disappear the blood in some games.

But I dunno if this will work for world event nudity though...

Modifié par Shiroukai, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:29 .

[Seifz]

Pedrak wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

Hollywood-like sex scenes?  Talk about censorship.  If you want to avoid an NC-17 rating, you pretty much need to do all of the following:

1.  No gay sex.
2.  No positions other than missionary and (sparingly) reverse missionary.
3.  Nothing weird, no fetishes, not more than two people at once.
4.  No genitals, pubic hair, or really anything except for breasts.
5.  You better not zoom out to far to show the thrusting.
6.  Regardless of camera angle, you better not exceed X thrusts.

There are exceptions (especially from the larger studios, who tend to get away with more), but generally sex scenes in Hollywood films are severely restricted.  There's a documentary about this called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated".  Here:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/

I'm still sticking with fade to black if we must keep these sex-focused romances.

This seems odd, as many love scenes in PG-13 movies are at least as explicit as DAO's - which was a M-rated game and therefore aimed at a more mature audience.

It's not odd.  The MPAA ratings board is full of older, heterosexually married people with older children.  They're intentionally chosen to not have any useful qualifications and to just rate the way the feel.  There are tons of disparities between PG-13, R, and NC-17 ratings that can't be explained by anything other than gut feelings.

The ESRB is a different ratings board with different procedures and different criteria for ratings.  You can't really compare video game ratings to movie ratings directly like that.  You can compare video games to video games, though.  There are M-rated games with far more nudity and graphic sex scenes than DA:O.  I suspect the reason we got the undies in DA:O had nothing to do with the rating and everything to do with a deliberate choice by the developers to not include nudity in this product.

Anyway, I think adding nudity to the otherwise pretty tame DAO sequences would be enough. Fade to black for those who choose to disable this feature.

Why?  So we can have nipples in our low-budget softcore sex scenes that still look ridiculous and awkward?  Add all the nudity you want, those scenes will still look and feel horrible.  Either do it right, or don't do it at all.

I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game.  The almost nudity in ME1 didn't really change that.  It sure made for some pointless controversy on the news and millions of YouTube hits, though. 

[Pedrak]

Seifz wrote...

I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game. 

Romances, in fact, should not be sex-driven - they should just not shy away from the inclusion - and the (more or less explicit) depiction of sex, IMHO. But I'd have nothing against having, for example, one of the LI with whom you can only develop a platonic, chaste relationship.

[zahra]

Pedrak wrote...

Seifz wrote...

I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game. 

Romances, in fact, should not be sex-driven - they should just not shy away from the inclusion - and the (more or less explicit) depiction of sex, IMHO. But I'd have nothing against having, for example, one of the LI with whom you can only develop a platonic, chaste relationship.

Agreed!

The general steps of 

1. Trigger the right dialog
2. Give presents
3. ????
4. Profit! (sex)

sometimes felt too formulaic. It also sucked that generally after getting "Profit!" you ran out of conversation options so you would just usually hit the LI up for smooching or sex. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.) It would have been interesting if Leliana was a true initiate and took vows, or Alistair insisted on not having premarital sex. (*ducks for cover from angry Alistair-fans)

[SirOccam]

Seifz wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

Hollywood-like sex scenes?  Talk about censorship.  If you want to avoid an NC-17 rating, you pretty much need to do all of the following:

1.  No gay sex.
2.  No positions other than missionary and (sparingly) reverse missionary.
3.  Nothing weird, no fetishes, not more than two people at once.
4.  No genitals, pubic hair, or really anything except for breasts.
5.  You better not zoom out to far to show the thrusting.
6.  Regardless of camera angle, you better not exceed X thrusts.

There are exceptions (especially from the larger studios, who tend to get away with more), but generally sex scenes in Hollywood films are severely restricted.  There's a documentary about this called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated".  Here:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/

I'm still sticking with fade to black if we must keep these sex-focused romances.

Honestly, I think Hollywood censorship is mostly fine. I mean obviously #1 would have to go if same-sex romances are possible, but for the most part, you don't need to exceed the rest unless you're making porn.

If you think about it in terms of story, what do you need?
1. You need to know what they're doing. Obviously.
2. You need to convey a certain feeling with the scene (tender, rough, whatever). That depends on the characters.
3. And preferably you need to make it not look silly.

I've tried downloading mods to make the scenes less absurd, but they all (even the so-called "mild" ones) just turn it into porn. You don't need to see them run through the entire Kama Sutra in order for the scene to be effective, and in fact, I think seeing that makes it less effective. All of a sudden these characters aren't people anymore; they're just objects for our amusement. It really cheapens the characters, in my opinion.

I think you need to keep subtlety, and that's one thing porn has never heard of. Also "nuance." A scene where not so much as a single nipple is shown can be way more compelling than a porn shoot. If they can't find a way to not have the silly underwear and still hide the explicit parts with camera angles (or maybe bedsheets could be invented), then I'd rather them do fades-to-black. Like many have said, ME1 was great in this regard. Very little nudity but they were still very well-done scenes, and tasteful.

[Seifz]

zahra wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Seifz wrote...

I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game. 

Romances, in fact, should not be sex-driven - they should just not shy away from the inclusion - and the (more or less explicit) depiction of sex, IMHO. But I'd have nothing against having, for example, one of the LI with whom you can only develop a platonic, chaste relationship.

Agreed!

The general steps of 

1. Trigger the right dialog
2. Give presents
3. ????
4. Profit! (sex)

sometimes felt too formulaic. It also sucked that generally after getting "Profit!" you ran out of conversation options so you would just usually hit the LI up for smooching or sex. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.) It would have been interesting if Leliana was a true initiate and took vows, or Alistair insisted on not having premarital sex. (*ducks for cover from angry Alistair-fans)

The part where dialogue ends after reaching the sex scene (which is made worse by having the achievements, by the way!) is the thing that bothers me most.  Morrigan and Zhevran didn't follow the usual 4-step process and that was a Good Thing.  More of that, please.  Less sex achievements, too.

[Lord_Valandil]

zahra wrote...
sometimes felt too formulaic. It also sucked that generally after getting "Profit!" you ran out of conversation options so you would just usually hit the LI up for smooching or sex. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.) It would have been interesting if Leliana was a true initiate and took vows, or Alistair insisted on not having premarital sex. (*ducks for cover from angry Alistair-fans)

I agree on the first part, after the romance scenes, the conversation options ended.
On the second part, not so much. It would have been a "I-want-but-I-can't" lame bit.
On the other Hand, in ME2, you can romance Samara, but you don't get the "priiiize", and Morinth kills you.

[Lord_Valandil]

SirOccam wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

I've argued it before for DA:O, but I support full nudity and hollywood-like sex scenes.

Hollywood-like sex scenes?  Talk about censorship.  If you want to avoid an NC-17 rating, you pretty much need to do all of the following:

1.  No gay sex.
2.  No positions other than missionary and (sparingly) reverse missionary.
3.  Nothing weird, no fetishes, not more than two people at once.
4.  No genitals, pubic hair, or really anything except for breasts.
5.  You better not zoom out to far to show the thrusting.
6.  Regardless of camera angle, you better not exceed X thrusts.

There are exceptions (especially from the larger studios, who tend to get away with more), but generally sex scenes in Hollywood films are severely restricted.  There's a documentary about this called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated".  Here:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/

I'm still sticking with fade to black if we must keep these sex-focused romances.

Honestly, I think Hollywood censorship is mostly fine. I mean obviously #1 would have to go if same-sex romances are possible, but for the most part, you don't need to exceed the rest unless you're making porn.

If you think about it in terms of story, what do you need?
1. You need to know what they're doing. Obviously.
2. You need to convey a certain feeling with the scene (tender, rough, whatever). That depends on the characters.
3. And preferably you need to make it not look silly.

I've tried downloading mods to make the scenes less absurd, but they all (even the so-called "mild" ones) just turn it into porn. You don't need to see them run through the entire Kama Sutra in order for the scene to be effective, and in fact, I think seeing that makes it less effective. All of a sudden these characters aren't people anymore; they're just objects for our amusement. It really cheapens the characters, in my opinion.

I think you need to keep subtlety, and that's one thing porn has never heard of. Also "nuance." A scene where not so much as a single nipple is shown can be way more compelling than a porn shoot. If they can't find a way to not have the silly underwear and still hide the explicit parts with camera angles (or maybe bedsheets could be invented), then I'd rather them do fades-to-black. Like many have said, ME1 was great in this regard. Very little nudity but they were still very well-done scenes, and tasteful.

I agree with you, sir.

[ErichHartmann]

Pedrak wrote...

Seifz wrote...

I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game. 

Romances, in fact, should not be sex-driven - they should just not shy away from the inclusion - and the (more or less explicit) depiction of sex, IMHO. But I'd have nothing against having, for example, one of the LI with whom you can only develop a platonic, chaste relationship.

A platonic relationship would be nice.  But I don't see how sex in general is silly.  I see some games on the same level as books or movies, so the issue shouldn't be avoided.  Plus anyone who finds it distracting has the option not to pursue it. 

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 06 septembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[Estelindis]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Something similar to Mass Effect 1, you saw enough of the sex scene that it let your imagination do the rest but without making it feel like it was only there for fan service.

I would also find this ideal.  To me, ME1 has Bioware's best treatment of nudity during intimate scenes.  The camera angles were handled very carefully and tastefully so that not too much is seen, meaning that absurd underwear during sex doesn't need to happen.

On the other hand, DA:O didn't keep to the (somewhat tired at this point) Bioware standard in which romance is only consummated before the final big story mission.  I liked that.  It was just the DA:O cutscenes themselves that I found a step backwards from ME1.  (ME2's were a step backwards for me too, for that matter.  But it's more acceptable for the second game in a series not to do the final love scene in exactly the same way.  A bit of variation and all that.)

Pedrak wrote...

Seifz wrote...
I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game. 

Romances, in fact, should not be sex-driven - they should just not shy away from the inclusion - and the (more or less explicit) depiction of sex,
IMHO. But I'd have nothing against having, for example, one of the LI
with whom you can only develop a platonic, chaste relationship. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

For the record, I agree with this.  I feel that sex should always involve love, but love doesn't always have to involve sex.  At least not as the "pinnacle" of the relationship, after which all development of the relationship ceases...  That is one respect in which DA:O was exemplary: the physical consummation was not the last thing we saw happening between the two lovers, not by a long shot.  In most playthroughs, the Warden and his/her love still have a long way to go after that.

That said, I would have welcomed the opportunity to ask one's partner to wait for sex while making it very clear that this was in no way a rejection of the partner.  Alistair is allowed to do this in DA:O if the PC asks him to sleep with her, yet if Alistair is the one asking the PC to sleep with him and she prefers to wait then I believe the result is -10 disapproval.  A bit of a double standard, in my book.  I'm not saying that this should be an option for all romanceable characters, but I would like it if, in some cases, one's PC could say she didn't feel ready yet, but in a romantic way.  Would it be too much to request that the PC have the choice to want to get married first?  Am I totally crazy and some kind of cave-dwelling anachronism for wanting the option for this?

Modifié par Estelindis, 06 septembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[Seifz]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Seifz wrote...

I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game. 

Romances, in fact, should not be sex-driven - they should just not shy away from the inclusion - and the (more or less explicit) depiction of sex, IMHO. But I'd have nothing against having, for example, one of the LI with whom you can only develop a platonic, chaste relationship.

That would actually be nice.  But I don't see how sex in general is silly.  I see some games on the same level as books or movies, so the issue shouldn't be avoided.  Plus anyone who finds it distracting has the option not to pursue it. 

Sex is almost always avoided in good books.  At best, you'll get a fade to black or some references to it after the fact.  Even DG's Dragon Age books don't describe anything, and food good reason.  It's distracting and entirely not necessary to tell the story.

I have nothing against sex or sex in games.  However, I see no reason to include sex just for the sake of it.  That's pretty much what BioWare's been doing, though.  Almost every romance has been "talk talk talk talk SEX end".  Ew!  In DA:O it got worse because they actually made these ridiculous cut scenes!  Wouldn't it all have been so much better if they'd just faded to black and then had you wake up the next morning with your companion, Leliana style?  The poor animations, music, clothes, etc. were horribly distracting.  Either do it right, or don't do it.

Regarding the Hollywood stuff, my point was that you probably shouldn't use "Hollywood-like" to describe sex scenes when you're speaking against censorship.  Even if you ignore the censorship of same-sex romances, the rest is all pretty silly, too.  Sex is sex.  If you want to show characters having sex, do it.  If you don't, don't.  None of that "we can show sex, but only the missionary position, only for a few seconds, and only if we show a nipple and nothing more".  At that point, why bother?  Just fade to black.  We know what happened.  Unrealistic sex is worse than no sex.

The difference between porn and not porn shouldn't be how much nudity, or what kind of nudity, or what acts are acceptable.  Pornography is made for a specific purpose (sexual arrousal).  Other films are made for other purposes (to tell a story, to educate).  They shouldn't be labeled "porn" just because they show a penis or some doggy-style sex.

[dan107]

Anarya wrote...

dan107 wrote...

Shadow_broker
wrote...

Alright since no one else has brought it up i will!
Should
we get Nudity in DA2 and to what extent? Should Romance scenes
show Boobs? Should Broodmothers put on Bras? Should hawke take a
siblibg bath with Bethany? These are the questions that kept me up at
night
How much nudity do you want/expect from DA2 and why. 

As
long as they don't pull a Ballad of gay tony or something of that
caliber i think i'll be fine

The subject has been brought
up many times before actually. A POLL I
created a while back shows that the community is overwhelmingly in favor
of sex and nudity. With 1200+ responses the margin of error is less
that 3%, and since there is no reason to believe that this particular
community is any more or less conservative than the gaming public at
large, I'd say the question of consumer demand is pretty much settled.
Bioware/EA are just being prudish about it for some reason. I wonder if
it's the designers or the corporate side.

Well, I
don't know if that margin of error is correct because it's not a random
sampling and you don't tend to get accurate results from a
self-selected survey. Not that I'm anti-sex, just wanted to point that
out.

Obviously the sample primarily includes the
more hardcore Bioware fans, but like I said there's no reason to
believe that hardcore Bio fans would be any more or less conservative
when it comes to sex and nudity than the average gamer. So I'd argue
that the results are pretty representative.

[SirOccam]

Seifz wrote...

The difference between porn and not porn shouldn't be how much nudity, or what kind of nudity, or what acts are acceptable.  Pornography is made for a specific purpose (sexual arrousal).  Other films are made for other purposes (to tell a story, to educate).  They shouldn't be labeled "porn" just because they show a penis or some doggy-style sex.

No, but deciding "hmm, we should show them doing it doggy-style" doesn't really sound like "story" is the first thing on their minds. Now it's not impossible that a certain position might have an effect on a story, but it's not (or at least shouldn't be) a common thing. Same with closeups of genitalia or just excessive detail in general. I mean...some things are best left to the imagination. This is where subtlety and nuance come into it.

[Saibh]

dan107 wrote...

Anarya wrote...

dan107 wrote...

Shadow_broker
wrote...

Alright since no one else has brought it up i will!
Should
we get Nudity in DA2 and to what extent? Should Romance scenes
show Boobs? Should Broodmothers put on Bras? Should hawke take a
siblibg bath with Bethany? These are the questions that kept me up at
night
How much nudity do you want/expect from DA2 and why. 

As
long as they don't pull a Ballad of gay tony or something of that
caliber i think i'll be fine

The subject has been brought
up many times before actually. A POLL I
created a while back shows that the community is overwhelmingly in favor
of sex and nudity. With 1200+ responses the margin of error is less
that 3%, and since there is no reason to believe that this particular
community is any more or less conservative than the gaming public at
large, I'd say the question of consumer demand is pretty much settled.
Bioware/EA are just being prudish about it for some reason. I wonder if
it's the designers or the corporate side.

Well, I
don't know if that margin of error is correct because it's not a random
sampling and you don't tend to get accurate results from a
self-selected survey. Not that I'm anti-sex, just wanted to point that
out.

Obviously the sample primarily includes the
more hardcore Bioware fans, but like I said there's no reason to
believe that hardcore Bio fans would be any more or less conservative
when it comes to sex and nudity than the average gamer. So I'd argue
that the results are pretty representative.

I'd point out that the preferable option, to me--ME1 esque sex scenes--isn't there. The options either show a distaste for sex, which isn't representative of what I want to see and not see and why that's the case ("if you must", really?), or the welcoming of graphic nudity simply because they believe it fits. I fall in between those two, where I think the best option is to show the intimacy and romance of the scene handled carefully with camera angles.

[dan107]

nhsk wrote...

dan107 wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

Alright since no one else has brought it up i will!
Should we get Nudity in DA2 and to what extent? Should Romance scenes show Boobs? Should Broodmothers put on Bras? Should hawke take a siblibg bath with Bethany? These are the questions that kept me up at night
How much nudity do you want/expect from DA2 and why. 

As long as they don't pull a Ballad of gay tony or something of that caliber i think i'll be fine

The subject has been brought up many times before actually. A POLL I created a while back shows that the community is overwhelmingly in favor of sex and nudity. With 1200+ responses the margin of error is less that 3%, and since there is no reason to believe that this particular community is any more or less conservative than the gaming public at large, I'd say the question of consumer demand is pretty much settled. Bioware/EA are just being prudish about it for some reason. I wonder if it's the designers or the corporate side.

Fox News...

I'm pretty sure that that one story did more for ME1 sales than any other piece of press coverage. For every outraged soccer mom that doesn't let her kids play video games anyway, how many teenage boys saw the story and went "Ooh! Boobs!" and went and got the game? If I was in charge of Bio's marketing department, I'd make it my top priority to get onto Fox News. The most popular news network in America announcing in prime time that your game has sex in it for free? It's a marketer's dream come true IMO.

[zahra]

Seifz wrote...

zahra wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Seifz wrote...

I still think that the sex-driven romances are entirely silly and distracting from the actual game. 

Romances, in fact, should not be sex-driven - they should just not shy away from the inclusion - and the (more or less explicit) depiction of sex, IMHO. But I'd have nothing against having, for example, one of the LI with whom you can only develop a platonic, chaste relationship.

Agreed!

The general steps of 

1. Trigger the right dialog
2. Give presents
3. ????
4. Profit! (sex)

sometimes felt too formulaic. It also sucked that generally after getting "Profit!" you ran out of conversation options so you would just usually hit the LI up for smooching or sex. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.) It would have been interesting if Leliana was a true initiate and took vows, or Alistair insisted on not having premarital sex. (*ducks for cover from angry Alistair-fans)

The part where dialogue ends after reaching the sex scene (which is made worse by having the achievements, by the way!) is the thing that bothers me most.  Morrigan and Zhevran didn't follow the usual 4-step process and that was a Good Thing.  More of that, please.  Less sex achievements, too.

Yes, the achievement thing was weird and cheapened the experience somewhat. Very frat boy "Yo you finally banged her dude!!" complete with hi-five and obligatory bro-fist pump. 

I liked that Zevran + Morrigan's romance followed a somewhat different path.

[dan107]

Saibh wrote...
I'd point out that the preferable option, to me--ME1 esque sex scenes--isn't there. The options either show a distaste for sex, which isn't representative of what I want to see and not see and why that's the case ("if you must", really?), or the welcoming of graphic nudity simply because they believe it fits. I fall in between those two, where I think the best option is to show the intimacy and romance of the scene handled carefully with camera angles.

Well I couldn't cover every nuance and caveat in the poll. Your preference is obviously closest to option 3 -- sex, but no nudity.

[AuraofMana]

Shiroukai wrote...
I don't care about you not wanting to play TW1 or TW2.

I do care about you misinforming people that the game is full of grind, which it is NOT, and you playing it for 2 hours is a weak stronghold for you argument.

I didn't have to go out of my way to play the game, which is contradicting with your way of discribing a grind. Like I said before, and yet again will be ignored by you so you can twist your 2 hour crap thruth, I completed the side quest through the course of the main story which has no grind, NO GRIND.

I feel humiliated by the facts that people like you who are twisting thruths to enhence their arguments, are enjoying a game like DA:O.

If you don't like the witcher, then state an opinion, not false fact.

"Anyone who has a different experience than me is lying!!!!" Yeah okay, all I know is for the two hours I've been playing, the game has been a ****ty grindfest. I don't care if you want to prove that it isn't later on because I honestly don't care. It's a ****ty game because it failed to sell itself to me after TWO WHOLE HOURS.
It's my first impression of the game and it's the only impression I got from that game. There are parts of WoW where there are no grinds too, doesn't stop the game from being a grindfest either, so don't try to pull that.

You have your experience of the game, and I have mine (Oh look they are different! MAGIC!) I like how you keep referring to what you have said before as nothing but truth, and then tried to build on that. You just feel mad and feel the need to call someone else as a liar because he or she disagrees with you. Learn to understand that people have different tastes and experiences.

And when the hell did I ever state what I said should be the defining fact of life? I stated my opinion, like everyone else. If someone else took it as a fact, that's his or her decision, not mine. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean what you said is a fact. I simply described my experience with the game and stated why I feel it is a terrible game for DA to draw from.

Next time you want to rage on the internet at someone for disagreeing with you, at least take your time and spellcheck your **** before replying because I know you sure aren't taking your time to think about what you just wrote.

dan107 wrote...
I'm
pretty sure that that one story did more for ME1 sales than any other
piece of press coverage. For every outraged soccer mom that doesn't let
her kids play video games anyway, how many teenage boys saw the story
and went "Ooh! Boobs!" and went and got the game? If I was in charge of
Bio's marketing department, I'd make it my top priority to get onto Fox
News. The most popular news network in America announcing in prime time
that your game has sex in it for free? It's a marketer's dream come true IMO.

The best part is that the parents are completely okay with killing tons of people in game, but are not okay when a side boob was shown.

[zahra]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

zahra wrote...
sometimes felt too formulaic. It also sucked that generally after getting "Profit!" you ran out of conversation options so you would just usually hit the LI up for smooching or sex. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.) It would have been interesting if Leliana was a true initiate and took vows, or Alistair insisted on not having premarital sex. (*ducks for cover from angry Alistair-fans)

I agree on the first part, after the romance scenes, the conversation options ended.
On the second part, not so much. It would have been a "I-want-but-I-can't" lame bit.
On the other Hand, in ME2, you can romance Samara, but you don't get the "priiiize", and Morinth kills you.

But "I want-but-I-cant" is so cute! I didn't know you could romance Samara, she pretty much DNW-ed my Shep. <_<

[casedawgz]

AuraofMana wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...
You were the one who lied about facts.

LOL K.

Shiroukai wrote...
You said TW1 is a grind game, while it's not true.
I dislike grind as much as you, yesterday I uninstalled Final Fantasy 14 because of the heavy grind.

TW1 main story doesn't have grind, and most of the side quest that do will be able to complete through the cause of the main story, just like DA:O. But since DA:O is more lineaire you can pretty much complete all the grind sidequest through out the story.

Define grind, because I don't think you understand what it means. Grind means going out your way to kill monsters over and over again. This is the overarching theme of the quests in TW1. Somebody gave some examples of "grind" quests in DA:O, which really was a fail comparison because those quests do not require you to grind. The materials they require are on the way to your main plots, so either way you'll have to gather the required materials. That is completely different from what TW1 has. I've been stating this the whole time while you people just counter argue with MORE of such terrible comparisons, how can I take you guys as logical?

Shiroukai wrote...
And yes, I allready agreed that TW1 sidequest were mostly grind quests, but you just made those grind quests the main thing of TW1 and that the game is crap because of it, which is pretty much a slap in the face of us who actually played through the entire game. Or in short, you decided the worth of the game, and pretty much decided the game only exist out of grind gameplay.

This is not true, the game isn't about grind, nor is it the most worthsome thing to mention.

Because that's all I experienced in two hours of gameplay and I am not about to spend more because I was seeing more grind coming. I am not about to grind more so I can find if the game is actually worth it. If the game has been boring for 2 hours, it's dead to me. You may enchant it with magical words and extol it, but I am not going through the grind to find what you are speaking of, then decide whether or not I prefer it myself. This is a problem with a lot of developers these days, where they don't realize the first impression is very important. Take some recent games full of bugs and such. The argument that the developers will patch is pathetic if the game is pretty much unplayable. I don't care if they'll patch it later because I've already given up on the game.
And if you watched the Yahtzee review, he claims this is a FIRST IMPRESSION of the game, not a full review. I agree with him on that because that's how I felt when I played the game.
If you want to talk about being slapped on the face because of a game, I feel humiliated by the facts that people like you are praising TW and claiming Bioware should learn from it when even yourself admit it has overwhelming flaws like grind quests and that Bioware games have never had such sheer amount of problems.

Also, I don't understand how people are praising TW2 and are claiming Bioware needs to learn from it. The god damn game isn't even out yet. The only logical source you can pull is TW1, which is full of grind. Yes, it's full of grind. Most of the quests in the game is grind, and arguing that they are sidequests still does not excuse the fact that the game is grind. That's like arguing you don't really NEED to level on WoW, so asserting that leveling on WoW is grind is not true.
Remember this: it takes the overwhelming majority of a game to define it as a good game, while it only takes a small number of game aspects to make it a ****ty game.

Anyway, enough of this issue. I am not going to reinstall that game and grind again just to get to the so called "good parts". We are not going to convince each other so just get back on topic. You can play TW1 and TW2 all you want, just leave it out of my DA.

Exactly how I felt. If three hours of a game bores me, I'm not gonna stick it out to see more. I'm gonna play something fun instead.

[Saibh]

dan107 wrote...

Saibh wrote...
I'd point out that the preferable option, to me--ME1 esque sex scenes--isn't there. The options either show a distaste for sex, which isn't representative of what I want to see and not see and why that's the case ("if you must", really?), or the welcoming of graphic nudity simply because they believe it fits. I fall in between those two, where I think the best option is to show the intimacy and romance of the scene handled carefully with camera angles.

Well I couldn't cover every nuance and caveat in the poll. Your preference is obviously closest to option 3 -- sex, but no nudity.

Yes, but it's phrased with distaste.

"No. Include sex in the story if you must, but don't show any "fun parts".

To me, that's like saying I'd really rather not have it, but if it's there, be sure not to show anything. The way I think of it, is I prefer for it to be there, and prefer for it to advertise the romance or mood of the event without gratuitous boobies. You're right, that the closest option is three if looked at clinically, but I picked two, because I just hated the tone.

Modifié par Saibh, 06 septembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[thegreateski]

Scrogging?



It's like that word is following me around . . .

[Burritos]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Alright since no one else has brought it up i will!
Should we get Nudity in DA2 and to what extent? Should Romance scenes show Boobs? Should Broodmothers put on Bras? Should hawke take a siblibg bath with Bethany? These are the questions that kept me up at night
How much nudity do you want/expect from DA2 and why. 

As long as they don't pull a Ballad of gay tony or something of that caliber i think i'll be fine

get gf, if you can't find one, pay one.

[thegreateski]

Burritos wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

Alright since no one else has brought it up i will!
Should we get Nudity in DA2 and to what extent? Should Romance scenes show Boobs? Should Broodmothers put on Bras? Should hawke take a siblibg bath with Bethany? These are the questions that kept me up at night
How much nudity do you want/expect from DA2 and why. 

As long as they don't pull a Ballad of gay tony or something of that caliber i think i'll be fine

get gf, if you can't find one, pay one.

Do not listen to this man. Women will suck the life out of you both spiritually and financially.

No offense intended ladies.

Modifié par thegreateski, 06 septembre 2010 - 10:37 .