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Nudity and Scrogging? how much remains Tasteful and how much do you want


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#376
Saibh

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thegreateski wrote...

Burritos wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

Alright since no one else has brought it up i will!
Should we get Nudity in DA2 and to what extent? Should Romance scenes show Boobs? Should Broodmothers put on Bras? Should hawke take a siblibg bath with Bethany? These are the questions that kept me up at night
How much nudity do you want/expect from DA2 and why. 

As long as they don't pull a Ballad of gay tony or something of that caliber i think i'll be fine



get gf, if you can't find one, pay one.

Do not listen to this man. Women will suck the life out of you both spiritually and financially.

No offense intended to you ladies.


"Those evil she-devil SUCCUBI! Your entire gender are the soulless money-grubbing harpies my mother always warned you were!"

But, ladies, I mean that in the most endearingly respectful way."

:lol: Nah, I'm not mad.

#377
Burritos

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Look you want a gf. Tell them your gay, and that you want to give them a massage. It'll work.

#378
AuraofMana

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Burritos wrote...

Look you want a gf. Tell them your gay, and that you want to give them a massage. It'll work.

LOL, reminds me that one time a friend of mine went to the local bar, and a girl he was hitting on told him he was too cute to be straight.

#379
Seifz

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SirOccam wrote...

Seifz wrote...

The difference between porn and not porn shouldn't be how much nudity, or what kind of nudity, or what acts are acceptable.  Pornography is made for a specific purpose (sexual arrousal).  Other films are made for other purposes (to tell a story, to educate).  They shouldn't be labeled "porn" just because they show a penis or some doggy-style sex.

No, but deciding "hmm, we should show them doing it doggy-style" doesn't really sound like "story" is the first thing on their minds. Now it's not impossible that a certain position might have an effect on a story, but it's not (or at least shouldn't be) a common thing. Same with closeups of genitalia or just excessive detail in general. I mean...some things are best left to the imagination. This is where subtlety and nuance come into it.


If you want to keep living in a fantasy world where everyone has sex missionary style, nobody has any fetishes, and genitalia is something of the imagination, then by all means.  I fail to see how "these characters are having sex, right now, on your screen" is subtle in any way.  If you want subtle, then you cut out before the sex happens.  If you're going to show sex, then show sex.  Don't show half-sex.  That's my point.

I don't care what position they're in, or how close up you get, and that's the whole idea.  It shouldn't matter!  These restrictions on positions and camera angle and body parts are just stupid.  Sex is sex.  End.

EDIT:  And I'm still of the opinion that the best way to handle sex in games like DA:O is to just fade to black before the sex happens.  I can't think of a reasonable way to show the sex without causing a whole lot of unwanted attention to BioWare.  Plus, I can't imagine that the designers really want to show real sex.  So instead of this half-sex nonsense, just don't show it.  Please!

Modifié par Seifz, 06 septembre 2010 - 10:53 .


#380
Guest_slimgrin_*

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Seifz wrote...


EDIT:  And I'm still of the opinion that the best way to handle sex in games like DA:O is to just fade to black before the sex happens. 


Just like real life. Nothing really happens after the lights go out.

#381
Lord_Valandil

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zahra wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

zahra wrote...
sometimes felt too formulaic. It also sucked that generally after getting "Profit!" you ran out of conversation options so you would just usually hit the LI up for smooching or sex. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.) It would have been interesting if Leliana was a true initiate and took vows, or Alistair insisted on not having premarital sex. (*ducks for cover from angry Alistair-fans)


I agree on the first part, after the romance scenes, the conversation options ended.
On the second part, not so much. It would have been a "I-want-but-I-can't" lame bit.
On the other Hand, in ME2, you can romance Samara, but you don't get the "priiiize", and Morinth kills you.


But "I want-but-I-cant" is so cute! I didn't know you could romance Samara, she pretty much DNW-ed my Shep. <_<


Er, no...it isn't! At least in my opinion.
And yes, you can romance Samara, heavy risk, and there's no prize.
If you bed Morinth, then you die :lol:

#382
Lord_Valandil

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Burritos wrote...

Look you want a gf. Tell them your gay, and that you want to give them a massage. It'll work.


I admire you, Burritos.
You're like my messiah.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:03 .


#383
Saibh

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Seifz wrote...

If you want to keep living in a fantasy world where everyone has sex missionary style, nobody has any fetishes, and genitalia is something of the imagination, then by all means.  I fail to see how "these characters are having sex, right now, on your screen" is subtle in any way.  If you want subtle, then you cut out before the sex happens.  If you're going to show sex, then show sex.  Don't show half-sex.  That's my point.

I don't care what position they're in, or how close up you get, and that's the whole idea.  It shouldn't matter!  These restrictions on positions and camera angle and body parts are just stupid.  Sex is sex.  End.

EDIT:  And I'm still of the opinion that the best way to handle sex in games like DA:O is to just fade to black before the sex happens.  I can't think of a reasonable way to show the sex without causing a whole lot of unwanted attention to BioWare.  Plus, I can't imagine that the designers really want to show real sex.  So instead of this half-sex nonsense, just don't show it.  Please!


God I hate when people say that. If you do not like the sex scene, you are allowed to skip it. Asking for it to be removed entirely because there's no boobies is silly.

You know what I don't need to see in movies? Birth. Am I willing to have that camera in the room, seeing the face of the mother in contorted pain? Sure, why not. Do I want to see that kid popping out? Hell no.

Just because something is happening doesn't mean I have to see it all to understand what's going on, or to understand the feeling and emotion of the scene. What's important about birth is the new life, the (possible) joy of parenthood, the love, and the labor of it happening. That's how you understand what's going on. I don't need the actual birth to be on camera for me to understand all of these things.

Similarly, I don't need to see full, graphic sex to understand what's going on in that scene and be able to glean the emotion from it. Alistair's scene, yeah, had the diapers, but it was still done very well. ME1's scenes had naked bodies without seeing the naughty bits, and still conveyed the scene very well.

Modifié par Saibh, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:21 .


#384
Lord_Valandil

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Saibh wrote...

Seifz wrote...

If you want to keep living in a fantasy world where everyone has sex missionary style, nobody has any fetishes, and genitalia is something of the imagination, then by all means.  I fail to see how "these characters are having sex, right now, on your screen" is subtle in any way.  If you want subtle, then you cut out before the sex happens.  If you're going to show sex, then show sex.  Don't show half-sex.  That's my point.

I don't care what position they're in, or how close up you get, and that's the whole idea.  It shouldn't matter!  These restrictions on positions and camera angle and body parts are just stupid.  Sex is sex.  End.

EDIT:  And I'm still of the opinion that the best way to handle sex in games like DA:O is to just fade to black before the sex happens.  I can't think of a reasonable way to show the sex without causing a whole lot of unwanted attention to BioWare.  Plus, I can't imagine that the designers really want to show real sex.  So instead of this half-sex nonsense, just don't show it.  Please!


God I hate when people say that. If you do not like the sex scene, you are allowed to skip it. Asking for it to be removed entirely because there's no boobies is silly.

You know what I don't need to see in movies? Birth. Am I willing to have that camera in the room, seeing the face of the mother in contorted pain? Sure, why not. Do I want to see that kid popping out? Hell no.

Just because something is happening doesn't mean I have to see it all to understand what's going on, or to understand the feeling and emotion of the scene. What's important about birth is the new life, the (possible) joy of parenthood, the love, and the labor of it happening. That's how you understand what's going on. I don't need the actual birth to be on camera for me to understand all of these things.

Similarly, I don't need to see full, graphic sex to understand what's going on in that scene and be able to glean the emotion from it. Alistair's scene, yeah, had the diapers, but it was still done very well. ME1's scenes had naked bodies without seeing the naughty bits, and still conveyed the scene very well.


I agree. Same with violence, you don't have to SEE the Warden killing Connor to know what just happened.
Or Loghain, you see the sword, and the blood. Same with Duncan. Ad infinitum.

#385
Maverick827

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Saibh wrote...

You know what I don't need to see in movies? Birth. Am I willing to have that camera in the room, seeing the face of the mother in contorted pain? Sure, why not. Do I want to see that kid popping out? Hell no.

Sophomore year Biology...

#386
Saibh

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Maverick827 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

You know what I don't need to see in movies? Birth. Am I willing to have that camera in the room, seeing the face of the mother in contorted pain? Sure, why not. Do I want to see that kid popping out? Hell no.

Sophomore year Biology...


Do I have to shake you to make sense? :D I have no idea what you're trying to say.

EDIT: WAIT I GET IT.

We saw the movie in Health class. I took off my glasses and cheated.

Modifié par Saibh, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:25 .


#387
Arrtis

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Maverick827 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

You know what I don't need to see in movies? Birth. Am I willing to have that camera in the room, seeing the face of the mother in contorted pain? Sure, why not. Do I want to see that kid popping out? Hell no.

Sophomore year Biology...

Kay?

Modifié par Arrtis, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:29 .


#388
Seifz

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Saibh wrote...

Seifz wrote...

If you want to keep living in a fantasy world where everyone has sex missionary style, nobody has any fetishes, and genitalia is something of the imagination, then by all means.  I fail to see how "these characters are having sex, right now, on your screen" is subtle in any way.  If you want subtle, then you cut out before the sex happens.  If you're going to show sex, then show sex.  Don't show half-sex.  That's my point.

I don't care what position they're in, or how close up you get, and that's the whole idea.  It shouldn't matter!  These restrictions on positions and camera angle and body parts are just stupid.  Sex is sex.  End.

EDIT:  And I'm still of the opinion that the best way to handle sex in games like DA:O is to just fade to black before the sex happens.  I can't think of a reasonable way to show the sex without causing a whole lot of unwanted attention to BioWare.  Plus, I can't imagine that the designers really want to show real sex.  So instead of this half-sex nonsense, just don't show it.  Please!


God I hate when people say that. If you do not like the sex scene, you are allowed to skip it. Asking for it to be removed entirely because there's no boobies is silly.


Yes!  How dare I voice my opinion on the forums!  Honestly, we need to stop saying "you can just skip it" or "make a toggle for it" in general.  It's poor design.

You know what I don't need to see in movies? Birth. Am I willing to have that camera in the room, seeing the face of the mother in contorted pain? Sure, why not. Do I want to see that kid popping out? Hell no.

Just because something is happening doesn't mean I have to see it all to understand what's going on, or to understand the feeling and emotion of the scene. What's important about birth is the new life, the (possible) joy of parenthood, the love, and the labor of it happening. That's how you understand what's going on. I don't need the actual birth to be on camera for me to understand all of these things.


I fail to see how this is relevant.  I'm talking about unrealistic sex scenes, not camera angles.  By all means, keep the camera on the girl's face the entire time.  (That's another thing that you're not supposed to do in Hollywood.  Showing a female's face while she has an orgasm is taboo!)  Just don't put ridiculous restrictions on it like "missionary only" or whatever.

In short, don't make it unrealistic.

Similar, I don't need to see full, graphic sex to understand what's going on in that scene and be able to glean the emotion from it. Alistair's scene, yeah, had the diapers, but it was still done very well. ME1's scenes had naked bodies without seeing the naughty bits, and still conveyed the scene very well.


But if we just faded to black, you'd still know what was going on!  Even better, the entire scene would be left to your imagination!  How are these severly restricted, lame sex scenes better than that?

#389
Lord_Valandil

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And so it begins...

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:28 .


#390
Maverick827

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Saibh wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

You know what I don't need to see in movies? Birth. Am I willing to have that camera in the room, seeing the face of the mother in contorted pain? Sure, why not. Do I want to see that kid popping out? Hell no.

Sophomore year Biology...


Do I have to shake you to make sense? :D I have no idea what you're trying to say.

EDIT: WAIT I GET IT.

We saw the movie in Health class. I took off my glasses and cheated.

Lucky you; I was prescribed glasses my freshmen year but didn't wear them until my junior year when it became impossible to see the board.

In my health class we just made out with dummies.  The teacher was a borderline senile gym coach who was known for banging his head against the chalkboard and throwing chairs.

Back on topic...BioWare doesn't have to turn the sex scenes into porn; that's what Deviant Art and the modding community is for.

#391
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Saibh wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Now, where did that topic go...?

Regardless, I think it's funny people treat the Witcher like it's the second RPG coming, when many of the things about the game that are present in DA2 as well are being faulted in DA2. It's amazing that the same people who say that having a predetermined character means the game will never be good will turn around and praise Geralt of Rivia. Besides that, considering we've gotten one game out of CD Projekt, and you can bet it was heavily inspired by BioWare, I'm not sure they're exactly on the same level.

I'm sorry, I think it's plain silly that people are acting like The Witcher will be the most fabulous thing to come out of cRPG gaming with the one game they have, and can't be bothered to trust BioWare with their many excellent games.

I'm going to get it, and I think it's gonna be pretty good. There.


gallery.racoonfink.com/d/9574-6/shrek-2-puss-in-boots

Will you forgive me? :crying::crying::crying:


No.


:crying::crying::crying:.... www.ten-cow.com/images/2009/02february/sw3.jpg

#392
Lord_Valandil

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simfamSP wrote...

Saibh wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Now, where did that topic go...?

Regardless, I think it's funny people treat the Witcher like it's the second RPG coming, when many of the things about the game that are present in DA2 as well are being faulted in DA2. It's amazing that the same people who say that having a predetermined character means the game will never be good will turn around and praise Geralt of Rivia. Besides that, considering we've gotten one game out of CD Projekt, and you can bet it was heavily inspired by BioWare, I'm not sure they're exactly on the same level.

I'm sorry, I think it's plain silly that people are acting like The Witcher will be the most fabulous thing to come out of cRPG gaming with the one game they have, and can't be bothered to trust BioWare with their many excellent games.

I'm going to get it, and I think it's gonna be pretty good. There.


gallery.racoonfink.com/d/9574-6/shrek-2-puss-in-boots

Will you forgive me? :crying::crying::crying:


No.


:crying::crying::crying:.... www.ten-cow.com/images/2009/02february/sw3.jpg




:?
What have you done?

#393
Saibh

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Seifz wrote...

Yes!  How dare I voice my opinion on the forums!  Honestly, we need to stop saying "you can just skip it" or "make a toggle for it" in general.  It's poor design.


That's right! Every single romance in the game must be implemented at all costs! No skipping for you! Also, cutscenes! You must watch all of those.

If you want a fade-to-black, you are given the choice on whether to have it. Similar to having a helmet-on, helmet-off toggle would be preferred for some people: some gamers feel that it adds to immersion to wear it all of the time, some people want to see their avatars, or feel like it's more immersive for a character to not wear restrictive helmets during a conversation or when walking around town.

I fail to see how this is relevant.  I'm talking about unrealistic sex scenes, not camera angles.  By all means, keep the camera on the girl's face the entire time.  (That's another thing that you're not supposed to do in Hollywood.  Showing a female's face while she has an orgasm is taboo!)  Just don't put ridiculous restrictions on it like "missionary only" or whatever.

In short, don't make it unrealistic.


Do I need to see that woman actually pushing? Do I need to see that umbilical cord cut? Do I need to see the entire five hours of that labor? Her water breaking? Mucus plug coming out?

No, these are details that are unnecessary, and for some, too gory and distasteful. You still understand what happens without any of these things being shown, and the emotion of the scene is not lessened because you watched her placenta come out. If you were in that room, you already have a stake in the birth--as the doctors, as the family. You don't need for music or camera angles or anything else to add to the feeling that isn't already there.

With a sex scene, in order for it to convey in the best possible way the emotion of the scenes, you do not want to put in anything that will distract the viewer or leave them feeling anything other than what you want them to feel. If you want to show graphic reverse cowgirl, you go right ahead. But, now, instead of feeling the love or romance or intimacy of that scene, all you're thinking about is the blatant pornography and the "Wow, those are some jiggle physics".

But if we just faded to black, you'd still know what was going on!  Even better, the entire scene would be left to your imagination!  How are these severely restricted, lame sex scenes better than that?


Because it's impersonal. You don't know how it was like for them. If you're the mother who just gave birth, is watching someone else's labor going to invoke and remind the feelings you had? To a degree. But is it the same? No, it's their labor, their kid, not yours.

Similarly, you can imagine whatever the hell you like during a sex scene that fades to black. From your own experiences, from seeing movies, reading books, whatever. But how does that tell you what it was like in this scenario? It doesn't. It's impersonal.

EDIT: I should clarify that "personal" still doesn't mean exactly what positions and exactly how many thrusts were done or whatever. It's about emotion, not technicality.

Modifié par Saibh, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:40 .


#394
Lord_Valandil

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Saibh wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Yes!  How dare I voice my opinion on the forums!  Honestly, we need to stop saying "you can just skip it" or "make a toggle for it" in general.  It's poor design.


That's right! Every single romance in the game must be implemented at all costs! No skipping for you! Also, cutscenes! You must watch all of those.

If you want a fade-to-black, you are given the choice on whether to have it. Similar to having a helmet-on, helmet-off toggle would be preferred for some people: some gamers feel that it adds to immersion to wear it all of the time, some people want to see their avatars, or feel like it's more immersive for a character to not wear restrictive helmets during a conversation or when walking around town.

I fail to see how this is relevant.  I'm talking about unrealistic sex scenes, not camera angles.  By all means, keep the camera on the girl's face the entire time.  (That's another thing that you're not supposed to do in Hollywood.  Showing a female's face while she has an orgasm is taboo!)  Just don't put ridiculous restrictions on it like "missionary only" or whatever.

In short, don't make it unrealistic.


Do I need to see that woman actually pushing? Do I need to see that umbilical cord cut? Do I need to see the entire five hours of that labor? Her water breaking? Mucus plug coming out?

No, these are details that are unnecessary, and for some, too gory and distasteful. You still understand what happens without any of these things being shown, and the emotion of the scene is not lessened by watching her placenta coming out. If you were in that room, you already have a stake in the birth--as the doctors, as the family. You don't need for music or camera angles or anything else to add to the feeling that isn't already there.

With a sex scene, in order for it to convey, in the best possible way, the emotion of the scenes, you do not want to put in anything that will distract the viewer or leave them feeling anything other than what you want them to feel. If you want to show graphic reverse cowgirl, you go right ahead. But, now, instead of feeling the love or romance or intimacy of that scene, all you're thinking about is the blatant pornography and the "Wow, those are some jiggle physics".

But if we just faded to black, you'd still know what was going on!  Even better, the entire scene would be left to your imagination!  How are these severely restricted, lame sex scenes better than that?


Because it's impersonal. You don't know how it was like for them. If you're the mother who just gave birth, is watching someone else's labor going to invoke and remind the feelings you had? To a degree. But is it the same? No, it's their labor, their kid, not yours.

Similarly, you can imagine whatever the hell you like during a sex scene that fades to black. From your own experiences, from seeing movies, reading books, whatever. But how does that tell you what it was like in this scenario? It doesn't. It's impersonal.


I agree with you again. And now I'm leaving, for a while.
I'll see if I can return later to see the outcome. BTW, you never answered my message :(

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:39 .


#395
mopotter

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Something similar to Mass Effect 1, you saw enough of the sex scene that it let your imagination do the rest but without making it feel like it was only there for fan service.


I would be quite happy with this.  

#396
Dawnhorn

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mopotter wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Something similar to Mass Effect 1, you saw enough of the sex scene that it let your imagination do the rest but without making it feel like it was only there for fan service.


I would be quite happy with this.  


This is exactly what I would want.  Having the underwear on actually made it worse - I'd rather they would have dismissed the scene altogether than have it be so censored that it's borderline ridiculous.  With that said, no full-frontal or anything is really needed.  Playing the angles creates a more sensual and real experience without blatantly having it considered pornographic.

#397
Morroian

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Burritos wrote...

Look you want a gf. Tell them your gay, and that you want to give them a massage. It'll work.


Hey it worked in Kick Ass

#398
Russalka

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I had this wordfight with a person who was completely against having any sexual scenes in games. There is a line, he said. Having these kinds of things is only catering to lonely and perverted playerbase.

I believe having proper, not awkward, but tastefully managed scenes of sexual nature can in the long run break more walls, making gaming more and more comparable to the film industry for example.

Personally I didn't really mind the sex scenes in DA:O, awkward as they seemed at times. What could have made them significantly less strange would have been not showing things below the waistline or neck for women later on, making it seem like they truly are naked (even though all the grannypants and diapers are on x_x).

Mass Effect 1 managed it quite well.

Modifié par Russalka, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:48 .


#399
DannyT18

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To be honest I love romances in Bioware, i'm the Ashley and Leliana man myself, but I would be happy enough for them to just kiss and move over to there tent while the screen blacks out.

#400
Russalka

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Is it perverted to think or feel that fade to black is just not enough though?

Modifié par Russalka, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:55 .