24 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

So, since I started playing ME2 I've pretty much only played the Infiltrator, as I loved the tech/guns combo.  Was always my favorite class from back in ME1.  But I've been wanting to try something different.  I want to try playing  Vanguard.  What has be a bit hesitant is that it's almost a completely different playstyle from the Infiltrator.

So, I'm going to start on a lower difficulty level (Veteran) to cut my teeth on the class before I move on to Insanity or Hardcore.  So I need an idea of what kind of build I should use, and what order of priority I should put on my powers (aka what should I max first, and in what order should I max).  I realize on Veteran that's not an issue, but as the Vanguard plays in a completely different style than I'm use to I want to try and break out of my Infiltrator habits first.

I've seen a Reave Build, and a Pull build.  Problem is, I can't max Pull without sacrificing Squad Cryo, which I do REALLY want.  Can anyone suggest a good build that uses Squad Cryo? (Loved it on my Infiltrator so much <3)

[Kronner]

You can max both without losing much (just get weaker Inferno, or use squad version from Grunt or Jacob, on Veteran you do not need max Inferno anyways):

go
Inferno 6/10
squad Cryo 10/10
Charge 10/10
Assault Mastery 10/10
Shockwave 3/10
Pull Field 10/10

2 points left

My most favourite build at the moment:
Heavy Charge 10
Destroyer 10
Inferno Ammo 10
squad Cryo Ammo 10
Shockwave 0
Pull 0
Crippling Slam 10

1 point left

Modifié par Kronner, 06 septembre 2010 - 06:25 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Heh, I'm an infiltrator type as well, which was why I decided to play Vanguard on
ME2 to try something different. I was drawn by the cool-lookingness of Charge and I really love it. I learned about combat more in this class than all classes.

Yeah, you ultimately can't have area pull and squad cryo at the same time. And to be honest, cryo and pull are redundant. But since you're starting from scratch, you can mess around with the points while you level up since you'll won't hit your ideal build till very late in the game. That said, If you're playing only on Veteran and below, you can forgo the bonus power and do the classic:

4 Incendiary Ammo
4 Cryo Ammo
4 Charge
4 Shockwave
1 Pull
4 Assault Mastery
0 Bonus

That way you can test all the skills you have. Shockwave is an iffy power; it has very slow casting time so you need to be very aware of when you are getting shot. One good thing about Shockwave is that it goes through walls, so you can get behind a tall cover (don't stick to it) and cast through it. You can even spam it behind a door, which is cheap but it's an option. Timing Shockwave with your weapons is key. On Vet and below it's great. Having you and Jack on Samara's mission will be a demolition party. The 1 pt in pull is enough to take out the annoying guy on the ledge if Charge isn't an option.

Think of Charge as "teleport" in that it doesn't do much damage, it's certainly isn't an auto-bailout button lke Cloak. You use it for positioning. Because of this, the best Vanguard players are very aware of their surroundings and how much damage you can take and recieve. But you'll find that out yourself. Just charge at everything and see how much you can take. Save beforehand.

If Shockwave isn't doing it for you and you still want Cryo Ammo, then:

4 Incendiary Ammo
4 Cryo Ammo
4 Charge
1 Shockwave
0 Pull
4 Assault Mastery
4 Reave

Which is probably more efficient use of your powers.

Going through the game, put a few points into Incendiary, Cryo Ammo, and Reave (if you have it) then leave them alone until you max your passive. Depending on how good you are at charging, you should then max Cryo Ammo or Charge, and then max the rest.

[billonidas]

The Vanguard tips and tricks thread from thisisme8 has a lot of great info, but here's my build.
Inferno Ammo lv4
Squad Cryo lv4 (or I'll sacrifice cryo for increasing shockwave and getting pull)
Heavy Charge lv4
Shockwave lv1
Pull lv0
Champion lv4
Heavy Barrier or Enhanced Dominate lv4

I have the same tendencies as yourself (adept and infiltrator player), so vanguard is a great change of pace. I turn on heavy barrier while softening up the enemy and making sure it does not break into health, so the extra shields from charge will stack on top of the extra shields from barrier. Once the enemy spreads the way I see fit, I charge to the enemy with the best flanking position. I'll do this until every one is down. Sometimes I'll use dominate to create a disposable flanker and also to create a distraction. I don't know which build I like best. One heavily increases survivability and the other creates another tactical advantage. If you use squad cryo then make sure you have at least one stripper as a squadmate and the heavy weapon equivalent (not needed, but makes things easier). Kasumi is also a great distraction and adds to the cc of shield enemies while cryo takes care of the unshielded.

I'm not the most aggressive player, so I make the most tactical moves possible while maintaining somewhat high odds of surviving while not losing sight of what the vanguard is about (I hate the load screen times and get extra irritated at them especially when I fail).

Modifié par billonidas, 06 septembre 2010 - 06:36 .

[sinosleep]

I would suggest maxing charge and passive above all else first. What makes charge great is the fact that no matter how low your health, you can always charge and regain all your shields. Unfortunately that shield regeneration isn't particularly useful until charge is maxed and since charge doesn't benefit from the biotic CD reduction research upgrades make maxing your passive ASAP very important as well.

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 septembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[JaegerBane]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

4 Incendiary Ammo
4 Cryo Ammo
4 Charge
4 Shockwave
1 Pull
4 Assault Mastery
0 Bonus

This is a good build. The only difference I made was that I took a lot of points out of Cryo to feed my bonus power (Reave) - it made the class feel a lot more self-sufficient.

[RiouHotaru]

sinosleep wrote...

I would suggest maxing charge and passive above all else first. What makes charge great is the fact that no matter how low your health, you can always charge and regain all your shields. Unfortunately that shield regeneration isn't particularly useful until charge is maxed and since charge doesn't benefit from the biotic CD reduction research upgrades make maxing your passive ASAP very important as well.

After Charge and the Passive, should I go for Ammo powers next?

[curly haired boy]

RiouHotaru wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

I would suggest maxing charge and passive above all else first. What makes charge great is the fact that no matter how low your health, you can always charge and regain all your shields. Unfortunately that shield regeneration isn't particularly useful until charge is maxed and since charge doesn't benefit from the biotic CD reduction research upgrades make maxing your passive ASAP very important as well.

After Charge and the Passive, should I go for Ammo powers next?

yep. inferno ammo is what you should aim for next.

[sinosleep]

RiouHotaru wrote...

After Charge and the Passive, should I go for Ammo powers next?

That's what I would do. If you feel that's too long to wait for cryo ammo though you could go 4 charge first, 3 passive, then up to squad cryo, before finally putting those final 4 points into your passive.

[RiouHotaru]

Alright, just started my run. I assume max Charge first, then passive?

[RiouHotaru]

Also, Kestrel Armor Set yes/no? (Well, except the helmet, I mean seriously, uuuuuugly) Or is there some other arrangement people like?

[Kronner]

Armor makes little to no difference. Go for melee bonus (and extra weapon damage is nice too) since you are a Vanguard but other than that armor is unfortunately pointless.

[RiouHotaru]

Kestrel Armor improves shields and melee damage, so that's a resounding "Yes!"

[Jade Elf]

Yeah, get the Kestrel chest plate and arms along with regular strength boost pads(shoulders) and you'll have a massive melee bonus. For legs and head gear, whatever you feel like. If you're still on Veteran, then additional bonuses to health and/or shields will still make a difference, though. On Hardcore and up, not so much.

[RiouHotaru]

I considered using Area Charge since I'm playing on Veteran, but then I realized I have to get use to the time dilation and the "when to/when NOT to" aspects of Charging since I won't be using Area Charge on anything higher than Vet.

[Jade Elf]

It can be very entertaining if you can pull it off with area charge, even on higher difficulties. You just need to have squad members with the relevant powers that can strip defences off of groups of enemies quickly (Area Overload, Area Reave, Incineration Blast, etc).

Having posted that, I do usually use Heavy Charge on Hardcore and up myself.

Modifié par Jade Elf, 06 septembre 2010 - 08:24 .

[RiouHotaru]

I assume Area Charge has no Time Dilation, but makes up for it with the blast when you connect?

[RiouHotaru]

Hmmm...should I take the Claymore? I've heard of people who've just gone Evis or what not. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with the Claymore trick.

[Kronner]

Try all options and see what you like best. But if you are going to play on Veteran, Claymore will be overkill and Eviscerator should get you one shot one kill ability on that difficulty. Scimitar is rapid fire and extremely effective. Katana is awesome too. It pretty much comes down to personal preference (do you want maximum damage, rapid fire or something in between).

[JaegerBane]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I assume Area Charge has no Time Dilation, but makes up for it with the blast when you connect?

Well... 'makes up with it' is debatable, but yeah, Area Charge has no time dilation. It only gives you a 75% shield boost on use as oppose to the 100% boost on Heavy Charge, too.

To be honest there isn't really much to recommend Area Charge on any difficulty level. If you really need to hurl a group of people backwards than that's where you should be using Shockwave

As for Shotty - personally my fave has always been the Scimitar, but that is very much a style issue. Claymore/Evis are the way to go if you want to go for headshots and 1S1Ks while Scimitar is a better choice if you intend to handle multiple opponents.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:12 .

[RiouHotaru]

So, I'm halfway through Mordin's recruitment, and man Vanguard is pretty fun. Couple of time there were veins on the screen, but the 100% shield boost from Heavy Charge helped out. It is fun to be dashing around a lot and sending folks through the air X3

[termokanden]

Yeah your screen should be a bit red as a vanguard. You'll keep taking heavy damage, but the point is that if you keep charging, it won't kill you.

[Adhin]

I use area charge on any difficulty, I find it easier to stay alive if I charge 2-3 enemies instead of singling targets out (though I still do that). Reason being if they're close enough that area blast, while doesn't knocl them all back FLYING if they have shields - it DOES cause the stun animation. For example you use Heavy Charge on a pack of 3 guys. Your cause 1 of them to stumble back, and 'shake it off' before he can focus on you again. That whole animation takes about 2 seconds, gives you plenty of time to blast his face in. The other 2 however arn't effected and shoot the **** outa you while your lining up your shot, that 1 second time dilation helps with this (so does the 100% over 75% shields) but ultimately you gadda run after.

With Area Charge on the same situation all 3 of them are stuck in a stunned knock back animation, which usually gives me enough time to line up a shot on 2 of them before any of them start shooting at me again, at which point im backing up and firing off my last shot in the Evi before reloading behind cover. Which usually has charge with 1 second left before I can charge out again.

All in all I find Area Charge easier to deal with for some reason, but I think any low duration dilation also tend to screw with my brain to much. It slows everything down (including shep) which jolts me to much out of the pace I'm in. You'll still have just shy 600 shields, its ultimately the difference of 62 shield strength on the two - not enough on Insanity to stop a group from nearly auto-killing you if you make a stupid charge choice and wind up in the open with 5+ guys gunning for ya.

As for Armor definitly go Kestrel like you've said and the 25% melee dmg shoulder pads that was mentioned earlier. Total Melee dmg comes out to 212.5 (that's 70% with upgrade+armor).

Now as for shotgun choice - pick what you like best really. In most situations they all perform about the same. I prefer the Evi and taking AR's after the collector ship for the Mattoc. Evi + Mattoc makes for a hell of a combo, very versatile combination. Another bonus with the Evi no other shotgun has is range damage. It has a slightly tighter spread and its dmg multipler from distance uses that of other base weapons (like AR/SMG's). Example is basically a normal Shotgun at melee range (up to 3 meters) is x2 dmg, by 4 meters its only x1.25 after which its 1.0 rest of the way. With the Evi they have to be 8 meters away for it to be down to x1.25 meaning you keep more of that dmg bonus from further away - less of an issue if they get 'tossed' around to much. Then again anything ragdolled on on the floor is an auto x2 regardless of distance or gun. Same with frozen.

My Build is basically
Incendiary 2
Squad Cryo 4
Area Charge 4
Shockwave 3
Pull 1
Champion 4
Heavy Slam 4

I like having heavy slam, its fun for me at least. Funnier if you combo it with the Pull. I tend to max Champion 1st for the cooldown but thats only after I've gotten everything to 1 point at least (meaning Cryo and pull). Then I max Champ, then Charge, then Cryo. You end up with all of that and them 3 maxed by level 19 (with 1 point waiting around). Full thing at 29.

Due to a suggestion Sinosleep gave in the Vanguard topic, and I've been doing it ever since I've mostly ignored Incendiaries and only use Cryo on my shotgun. Tried to go back to Inferno just to see how that worked as crowd controle but the cryo (for self as well) just works to good. Even if your shotgun blasts them just a fraction into there HP there's a HIGH chance they snap-freeze. Which sets them up for a shatter from Melee most the time.

Modifié par Adhin, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:15 .

[sinosleep]

I've been meaning to try out area charge again for quite some time. Maybe now's the time to do it.

[Adhin]

Please do! I'd love to hear your opinion on its effectiveness in the harder difficulties. Keeping in mind its area impact as a benefit, using it against small groups.