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[Vylan Antagonist]

gadlaw wrote...
I completely and wholehearted disagree. Jordan was and is far superior to Maritn or Goodkind both in depth and quality of his writing. Trying to read something by Goodkind right now and I 'm  wondering why it isn't over in the young readers fiction section of the bookstore.

Read a little bit more into the series and you'll see why Goodkind's placement there would probably provoke protests and editorials on Fox news. Hint- the slightly creepy S&M overtones get heavier handed with each novel.

As for Jordan, I'll admit he had a strong start to his series, but once it became fantastically successful, he apparently decided to stop all plot development in favor of having his characters devolve into repetitive caricatures who constantly perseverate over the same issues (pull your braid again Nynaeve).

Martin keeps things moving and is all-too-ready to kill of otherwise fascinating characters at the drop of a hat... Any hat. While this can sometimes cause twinges of frustration for readers who were interested in those characters and hoped to see more of them, it also lends a brutal air of verisimilitude and unpredictability that keeps the audience on the edge of their seat. We can never be sure where the story will go; He is apparently very aware of the sort of foreshadowing that normally makes epic fantasy read so predictable, and I think he intentionally uses that knowledge to drop red herring after red herring. Promise is nipped in the bud, the wicked prosper, and the mysteries of the world are revealed very subtly instead of all at once (or not at all).

My only possible grievance with Martin is how slowly he seems to write. Selfishly, I want to be sure he lives long enough to finish the saga properly.

[Taritu]

Can't stand Jordan or Martin—Jordan's pacing is too slow for me, and Martin skips around too much (though he's a good writer, actually, I just don't enjoy the style of story he likes to tell. He's also very manipulative). But, different strokes for different folks. I prefer the sort of books someone like Lois McMaster Bujold writes when she's at the top of her form.



As for the original question David's growth as a novel author is evident in the two books, I think the second is the better one as a result, so if you're going to buy only one, that's the one I'd pick up.

[NewYears1978]

Wow lotta debate and different opinions. If you are not a big reader person like me..meaning you don't read that much..but occasionally read a book here and there, and want to know how the DA:O books are..then my thoughts might help you.

I am 31, and in my lifetime the only books I have read on my own (not counting school things I HAD to read) were The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

So I read Stolen Throne and am nearly finished with The Calling..and I quite enjoyed them..the mere fact that each book took me just a couple weeks to read is impressive, for as I said I am not a typical reader..it puts me to sleep. The Stolen Throne is better as a introductory novel to the DA:O world...rather than a strict stand alone novel. The Calling is a much more entertaining book and I found myself chuckling and gaping my mouth open and things of that nature several times while reading it.

So if you are just an ordinary joe and wanna enjoy some books that pertain to a game that will be GREAT..then yeah, you should read them before you play DA:O.

Modifié par NewYears1978, 26 octobre 2009 - 08:46 .

[Tekbear]

David Gaider wrote...

SirGladiator wrote...
plus also the second DAO book has some thinly veiled attacks on the Bush administration (which while Im not a fan of them either, I find it rather inappropriate to slip things like that in there).

For the life of me I can't imagine what this is a reference to. The Blight, perhaps?

hahahaha!  condoleezza "the architect" rice, the evertrying foreign minister of evil.

[dweber77]

So out of curiosity I picked up both books and my opinion so far is they are good fantasy books. Granted I go through a book in no time when I have the time to read. But I find myself making time to get through The Stolen Throne. Now I will agree with others here and say this is not a true fantasy masterpeice but it is a good read and gives some insite to the current world portrayed in DA:O

[Tyveron]

 Yes. Remember this is a new setting with it's own quirks. The author is also the lead writer for the game. I've enjoyed them very much.

[Apasas]

I read the stolen throne and enjoyed it, although it is not without its faults. In saying that, that goes for most Sci-fi and Fantasy (including and especially Tolkien. Gawd, how I hated the first part of the Fellowship).



the book gives a solid background to the game, and I think it improves as the story progressed.



Is it a good stand alone book? Iam not sure. Possibly not. But I thought it was better then the two ME books. I also enjoyed the ME books, but only because I wanted to read more about the ME universe. I don't think the ME books are good stand alone books. I found the main character, Kakleen Sanders, to be quite dull. I doubt i would have read them if it was not for the game.



On the other hand the characters in the stolen Throne are well established, although one of them seems to be inspired by Han Solo.

[BeardedNinja]

Both books were excellent, and I enjoyed them immensely

[PsychoBlonde]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

As for Jordan, I'll admit he had a strong start to his series, but once it became fantastically successful, he apparently decided to stop all plot development in favor of having his characters devolve into repetitive caricatures who constantly perseverate over the same issues (pull your braid again Nynaeve).

The Gaider noticeably rides descriptions in The Calling, too.  You could make a drinking game solely out of the number of times he describes a "single bead of sweat" rolling down someone's forehead and the number of times the words "sickening crunch" appear in the latter half of the novel.

I appreciate that several characters are nervous and that bones breaking sound gross, but did you have to describe it the same way EVERY SINGLE TIME?!

Personally, I think The Calling would have been AT LEAST 50% if not 100% improved if he'd ditched Maric as a main character altogether.  His presence serves no purpose in the story and he devolves into an author-insertion wish-fulfilment character as a consequence.

[Quecken]

BeardedNinja wrote...

Both books were excellent, and I enjoyed them immensely

Same here.

[K3m0sabe]

A few years ago i thought that RA Salvatore and his Drizzt books were the epitome of fantasy... i look back to those days with chagrin, those book were nothing more than pop fantasy for easy consumption, the same can be said about the Mass Effect books and Dragon Age books, they are simple tie ins to the game with little substance and quality to them.

[Ryngard]

Man some people are the biggest book snobs... when was the last time you wrote a 1200 page novel?



_________________



Anyway... here is my take on the thread's topics:



Mass Effect novels - haven't read them but really want too. I'm sure I'll be pleased that I did.



Dragon Age novels - I thoroughly enjoyed both! The Calling was far superior to The Stolen Throne, though that novel would have been great if broken into a duology or trilogy I think. It was just too "summed up" for my taste (but it had a lot of ground to cover). The biggest problem with the Dragon Age novels, for me, is that there is so much going on with only so many pages, relationships/events happen without the proper length of setup to engage us. Notably Maric's relationships... all three... they suffer, for me, because they seem ot just happen. If there was more time (i.e. pages) of "courtship" so-to-speak, then I'd not have any complaints.



Jordan/Goodkind/Martin/Tolkien

One, these don't really belong here.

Two, it is ALL subjective... everyone has a different opinion and NOBODY is right.

Now, for me:

Jordan - I was a huge fan and think it started out fairly strong. By the halfway point, it was a struggle to read the novels. I plodded through them, enjoyed it overall, but the novels dropped from a 9-10/10 to 5-6/10. I'm still going to finish them and hope the final ones are more exciting.



Goodkind - I am a huge fan of Richard Rahl. I loved the Sword of Truth novels, and personally think them overall far more interesting and well written than Wheel of Time. Faith of the Fallen is one of my favorite books of all time. My biggest gripe comes with the final trilogy actually, as it doesn't feel like it fits the rest of the series and I'm left very unsatisfied with the ending and wish I didn't have to read two books worth of that sporting event... bleh



Martin - I was a late comer to A Song of Ice and Fire but am glad I did. Overall it is a great series, well written, engaging, and pretty much awesomesauce. However, there is a lot in there I dislike and feel like the series has gone off track. Too much stuff going on in too many places and a lot of it seems like an excuse to kill off characters just for the sake of doing so.



Tolkien - Great story teller, one of the worst writers I've ever read. And that comes from a huge fan who usually re-reads LotR annually and insists on people admiting that LotR is ONE book, not a trilogy. I have the shiny red collectors version on my shelf and it is well read. But his writing style, even using the 1930-50 British style as an excuse, leaves alot to be desired.



SO, in closing... everything is worth reading. You will like it or you won't... but don't let the forum police hound you either way. None of us are right, none of us are wrong... well some of them are wrong but that's ok.



OH and Gaider... I applaud you for Julien and Nicolas! Thank you so much for that addition, I really thought it fit well!

[FKSSR]

I just started reading The Stolen Throne. I've liked it so far. Like people have said before, it's not the best of fantasy, but it's still engaging. The biggest thing is definitely about being more invested in the world, and it seems to do that very well.



I will be reading the ME books soon as well. I have been waiting to build a new computer before playing ME (yeah, I know I'm late to that party).

[PsychoBlonde]

Ryngard wrote...

Man some people are the biggest book snobs... when was the last time you wrote a 1200 page novel?

None of these authors have written a 1200 page novel, either.  Me, I'm working on my fourth novel.  I threw out the first three, they were awful.

Being critical of your work is very important if you ever want to improve

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 28 octobre 2009 - 08:33 .

[MrGOH]

Book snob here! I haven't read the ME or DA:O novels, but after reading some impressions I'm somewhat tempted. Genre fiction is a guilty pleasure for me, though I am still picky about what series I follow. I generally read non-fiction and "highbrow" fiction for fun (it comes from being raised by English and Critical Studies professors and studying English in college, I think).



I grew up with Tolkien read to me as bedtime stories, so I can't help but be a fan, despite the ponderousness of his prose. I do enjoy his translations of Beowulf and Arthurian legends. I have only in the past few years read all of A Song of Ice and Fire and I really enjoyed each book even though the last one represented a serious drop off in quality. I also really like the R. Scott Bakker Prince of Nothing trilogy, even though it was written in a more impersonal style than many other popular fantasy novels, I dig the ideas in it the most. I also liked the Lies of Locke Lamora books, but I recognize the extreme amount of cheese in both.



I started but did not finish the first book in the Mazatlan (sp?) series - the characters bored me. I also could not get past the genericness of Glen Cook's Black Company stories.



Given this, would I enjoy the Stolen Throne and The Calling?

[Vylan Antagonist]

If you couldn't enjoy at least the first Black Company book, I can't pretend to understand your preferences well enough to know the answer to your question. Since it (and the Malazan series) are both about fantasy military campaigns, you might be less likely to enjoy Stolen Throne since it covers an insurgency as well, but beyond that, I can't really presume to guess.

[PsychoBlonde]

Based on that info, MR GOH, I'd say you'd probably enjoy the two Dragon Age books if you're aware going in that they're pop fiction and not first-quality literature. I also enjoyed SoI&F and had almost exactly the same reaction to the latest book, which pretty much trashed any interest I had in reading the rest of the series when and if it actually appears.



You may also enjoy Tales of the Otori by Lian Hearn if you appreciate a spare writing style. She violates the "Show don't Tell" principle almost as badly as The Gaider does in Stolen Throne, but in her case it suits her story and setting so it works out.

[ClaudiusDK]

I have read the first DAO book (Stolen Throne), and if you are into playing this game, I can warmly recommend it.

[Bob the Insane]

in some ways it might be worth putting off the novels to later (especially if you like the game world)...



The reason I say this is while they contain no overt spoilers for the game, it is feasible that some of the more personal background history might be spoilerish of an personal revelations that might be made by some ingame characters...



I think they do an excellent job of introducing the game world and some characters that you will meet. However I don;t think it will be vital to your understanding or enjoyment of the game...