44 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I love the Viper - it's my favorite gun, in fact - but your test in the other thread only compared Mattock's sniping ability to that of the Viper; you rightly concluded that Viper is superior in that regard, but that isn't the same as Viper being superior overall.

And I'm not saying that it is, all I was getting it is that it takes more for the mattock to be OP than the fact that it's versatile. Which seems to be the main thing the mattock has going for it on non-soldier classes cause in direct damage comparisons it comes in very close to the carnifex and viper. What differentiates the mattock from the other two is essentially it's weapon class. Being an AR in and of itself allows it to be more versatile. The fast firing rate makes it arguably superior to the pistol against standard enemies (far more forgiving of misses as all ARs barring the vindicator are) and the close range effectiveness being superior to that of a sniper rifle is another trait of ARs in general. It's a very good weapon, I just don't think it's anything all that crazy in the hands of non-soldiers.

I'd actually be more apt to find the GPS to be OP (and yet I still don't like it on my vanguards due to that initial delay in firing the first shot) since it's mid range game is VASTLY superior to any other shotgun in the game while still being classed as a shotgun. It's the only shotgun in the game where you wouldn't be losing all that much staying in the mid-range for an entire playthrough. Whereas with the others you'd be wasting gobs and gobs of potential damage and running out of ammo far more frequently.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:10 .

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

It's the only shotgun in the game where you wouldn't be losing all that much staying in the mid-range for an entire playthrough. Whereas with the others you'd be wasting gobs and gobs of potential damage and running out of ammo far more frequently.

This is precisely why I like all the other shotguns better.

[Habelo]

claymore is the biggest ****tiest shotgun. And gethy does most dps by far.



(claymore worst dps)

[sinosleep]

Habelo wrote...

claymore is the biggest ****tiest shotgun. And gethy does most dps by far.

(claymore worst dps)

Not if you use the reload trick it isn't.

[PsyrenY]

Kronner wrote...

Correct me if I am wrong, but it takes 2s to charge up, and the GPS reload time is like half a second at most, so the charging is much more important than reload on GPS.
Claymore can give you one shot every 1.5s if you can do the reload trick and 2.5 if you do not do the reload trick (in which case Claymore is the least efficient shotgun anyways).

The real question is, do you need to charge up every shot? I can charge up and alpha strike, then have 3 katana+ strength shots left to unload into the next enemy - two of which equal one Claymore without needing a reload in between, and do full damage at medium range in case he is not right beside me.

sinosleep wrote...

And I'm not saying that it is, all I was getting it is that it takes more for the mattock to be OP than the fact that it's versatile. Which seems to be the main thing the mattock has going for it on non-soldier classes cause in direct damage comparisons it comes in very close to the carnifex and viper. What differentiates the mattock from the other two is essentially it's weapon class.

I understood what you were getting at, but I believe it is that very versatility that makes the gun as powerful as it is. From your own post, it is comparable in damage to the Viper and Carnifex - yet it lacks the former's drawback of being dicey in close range and lacking a close range damage boost, and it lacks the latter's drawback of an extremely slow rate of fire and low clip size. Packing slightly less punch and not having a scope are not enough to balance these advantages, in my opinion.

Kronner wrote...

This is precisely why I like all the other shotguns better.

The irony is that the GPS's increased usefulness at mid-range makes it MORE realistic.

[Kronner]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The irony is that the GPS's increased usefulness at mid-range makes it MORE realistic.

If it was realistic, any shotgun in the game would oneshot anyone and melee would not work the way it does etc.
Gameplay/Fun > realism. I am not bashing GPS, I just do not enjoy using it as much as the other, limited range, shotguns.

Modifié par Kronner, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:57 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Kronner wrote...

I dislike the GPS. The charged up GPS is mostly overkill and in most cases it is better to fire twice, rather than charge it up (unless you go against bug guys like Commanders, Scions, Praetorians or YMIRs), for regular enemy, one shot+melee is better than charged up shot. It takes 2s to charge up too. So it is nothing special in close combat. Certainly comparable to other shoguns, I'd say it is a slighlty faster and slightly less damaging Eviscerator.
I enjoy using all the other shotguns more than GPS, which is not a shotgun imho, but a cannon. Also, it is pretty OP for mid-range combat. It takes away all the fun of playing a close combat specialst for me.

funny, those reasons you mentioned are exactly why i like the geth shotty.

[OniGanon]

Optimystic_X wrote...
In terms of raw power you are correct, but the Mattock offsets this by being useful at all ranges. Using the Viper at close range is dicey at best (particularly vs. multiple melee foes, or even worse a mix of melee and ranged), and the time you spend switching hurts your damage output at best, and can be fatal at worst.

Okay, this stuff about the Viper being crap at close range? No, it's certainly not the greatest weapon to use in close range, but let's put it in perspective.

Most melee enemies are protected by Armour.

The Viper's DPS is so high against Armour that it rivals or bests the DPS of a point blank shotgun.

It's not the greatest close range weapon, but it certainly doesn't leave you helpless.

Modifié par OniGanon, 07 septembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[PsyrenY]

OniGanon wrote...

Okay, this stuff about the Viper being crap at close range? No, it's certainly not the greatest weapon to use in close range, but let's put it in perspective.

Most melee enemies are protected by Armour.

The Viper's DPS is so damn high against Armour that it rivals or bests the DPS of a point blank shotgun.

I would much rather have that shotgun when swarmed by husks/varren than a Viper, good DPS or no.

[OniGanon]

Viper is actually more useful in that situation than a shotgun.



Predator or Carnifex even more so.

[PsyrenY]

All the vids I've seen of Shotgun Adepts/Engineers make it hard for me to take that claim on faith. I think we'll have to agree to disagree. (And it'll take a lot of convincing to make me think the Predator is good for anything.)

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...

Katana is not "pretty bad". It is actually pretty awesome shotgun.

Right, it's just the other shotguns are better

Realistically, the Katana doesn't really have a niche. The Scimitar is superior at handling tough single enemies or groups, the Claymore for 1S1Ks, the Evi for basic shotgunning and the GPS for long range.

[sinosleep]

The katana has run neck and neck (sometimes just under sometimes just over) the scimi on very comparison test I've made. Including the one where it was an enemy with substantially less health than a YMIR, the klixen comparison.

[JaegerBane]

sinosleep wrote...

The katana has run neck and neck (sometimes just under sometimes just over) the scimi on very comparison test I've made. Including the one where it was an enemy with substantially less health than a YMIR, the klixen comparison.

Damage, I'd agree, but in practice the ability to stagger enemies (particulalry at short range) was worth it's weight in gold.

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Katana is not "pretty bad". It is actually pretty awesome shotgun.

Right, it's just the other shotguns are better

Realistically, the Katana doesn't really have a niche. The Scimitar is superior at handling tough single enemies or groups, the Claymore for 1S1Ks, the Evi for basic shotgunning and the GPS for long range.

IMHO the choice of a shotgun is personal preference only, I love the Claymore because of 1S1K but I have played with all shotguns for a long time. Katana is more than good enough to get you through Insanity very easily. It is a very underrated shotgun. Scimitar is not better than Katana (or ANY other shotgun) against groups or single enemies. The difference between all shotguns is very small either way. GPS now makes Katana somewhat redundant, that is true, but I like the sound Katana makes and I prefer to use shotguns in close range so..

Modifié par Kronner, 07 septembre 2010 - 07:51 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
 Scimitar is not better than Katana (or ANY other shotgun) against groups or single enemies.

To clarify - I'm not saying it does the same damage or whatever. It's just with the shottie's impact, a 100 RPM fire rate and an 8 round clip, you can stagger a group of enemies a lot more easily than with a katana (this assumes you've got something else to hit them with, like techs or biotics). Hell, it's the main reason I bother with it.

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

Kronner wrote...
 Scimitar is not better than Katana (or ANY other shotgun) against groups or single enemies.

To clarify - I'm not saying it does the same damage or whatever. It's just with the shottie's impact, a 100 RPM fire rate and an 8 round clip, you can stagger a group of enemies a lot more easily than with a katana (this assumes you've got something else to hit them with, like techs or biotics). Hell, it's the main reason I bother with it.

Inferno Ammo has the panic effect..that is all you can possibly need against organics.
Synthetics, such as geth or mechs are weaker than organics, and Cryo/Disruptor works pretty good.
Most of the groups are 4 or less, maybe 5, enemies (usually less than 4), that is hardly a problem for any shotgun..assuming you hit with your shots of course. But I do think Scimitar is most forgiving shotgun/easiest to use thanks to rapid fire and a large clip. Once you get used to any shotgun, you are not gonna have problems either way.

Modifié par Kronner, 07 septembre 2010 - 08:13 .

[sinosleep]

JaegerBane wrote...

Damage, I'd agree, but in practice the ability to stagger enemies (particulalry at short range) was worth it's weight in gold.

Agreed on the stagger effect. All shotguns stagger, but the scimi can keep it up without the aid of melee due to the fast firing rate. It's featured in practically all my vanguard vids for a reason.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 septembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Mr_Raider]

OniGanon wrote...

Viper is actually more useful in that situation than a shotgun.

Predator or Carnifex even more so.

Indeed. For husks, I use carnifex. 1 shot, throw. 1 shot, pull. Rinse repeat.

Anyone have the ranged damage multipliers on GPs vs. Eviscerator? The Evi is no slouch at mid range either.

[OniGanon]

The Predator is an awesome weapon. A comprimise of the Carnifex's DPS and the Phalanx's ammo efficiency. Slap Cryo Ammo on it and it's the best Husk killer in the game, and useful against any armoured enemy, really. Pow pow pow, popsicle. Here watch this video and pay attention to the Husk bits:





The Katana staggers enemies very well y'know. I have stunlocked boss type characters with a Katana + melee. They could literally do nothing while I spent 5 seconds emptying the entire clip into their nostrils.



With Varren/Husks you can just strip their defenses in 1-3 pistol shots and then disable/instakill them, no need for stagger. If you really need to stagger a Husk, punch it in the face. I'm not sure Varren get staggered by melee though. Actually, I'm not sure Varren get staggered by shotguns either. Shotgun stagger is most useful on enemies that have a gun.