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[sinosleep]

So, instead of making another stand alone thread today I'm just going to put everything in one thread and edit the OP with new content (up top) when I upload it.




So newest first, Weapons Comparison: Adrenaline Rush vs Armor in order of most damage



The big shock was the carnifex coming in second. Didn't see that coming in a million years. Though I suppose that's what can happen when you can get random criticals.

mattock (king of a hill by quite a wide margin)
carnifex
widow head shot
revenant
viper head shots
vindicator
phalanx
charged geth plasma shotgun
predator
eviscerator
mantis
incisor
geth pulse rifle
claymore
scimitar
avenger
katana

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Vindicator vs Mattock vs Armor



Got some unwanted headshots in with the vindicator but the mattock still
came out on top.

vindicator 16.2 seconds

mattock 12.983 seconds

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pistol comparison test vol. 1 vs armor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR9XpWKTCDM&hd=1

This one is pretty straight forward, no weird happenings to clear up.

Carnifex 10.313 seconds

Phalanx 10.683 seconds

Predator 13.017 seconds


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Shotgun comparison test vol. 3 vs armor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcDmx3OFl98&hd=1

Ok, this volume 3 so you guys know what's up at this point no need for another long intro. Instead I'll start things off with what I'm sure is going to lead to a lot of WTF. How on earth did the charged shot gps take longer than the uncharged shot gps. Well, bad luck basically. I throw my melees in the same order every time and only do two in a row onthe evi where it fits in between the frames. If a weapon runs out of ammo after the melee strikes then I wait until I can shoot again to start using melee attacks again. And that's what happened to the GPS. Without the melee strike the first shot after the reload took an eternity and that's what made for the strange time.

Moving on though, here are all the times.

gps no charge: 8.2 seconds

gps charged on first shot: 8.35 seconds

evi: 8.433 seconds

scimi: 10.733

katana: 9.483

claymore reload trick: 7.317

claymore: 10.1

The claymore makes it's triumphant return as king of the hill!
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Shotgun comparison test vol. 2 vs shields

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2jHxmM07I&hd=1

First things first, this vid isn't particularly practical but I couldn't thinkof too many other enemies to fight where a charged gps shot didn't killthem outright so YMIR mech it was. The reason this presents aproblem isthat for standard mobs a lot of what this video shows doesn't apply. For instance, the Evi looks particularly bad in this vid, but when it comes to standard mobs it's a one shot and melee finisher. The ammo rarely becomes an issue like it did in this vid forcing a reload 3/4 of the way into shooting off the shield and costing the gun a lot of time. Iguess you could take away that if you are going to fight heavy duty minions with a shotgun, the evi might not be the one to do it with.

Secondly,the reason I melee is that you would be silly not to. There is a gap in between shots during which there is literally nothing else you could do to increase your damage out put other than to go ahead and melee in between shots. The number of melees for the different weapons are timed based on the number of frames in between reloads. You WILL lose DPS if you don't melee in between shots, even on the fast shooting scimitar.

Alright,with all that out of the way, here are the numbers

uncharged GPS 3.517

first shot charged GPS 1.9

evi 6.967

scimi4.9

katana 4.683

reload trick claymore 3.65

claymore7.367

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So many people call the mattock a viper sans scope, I wanted to test
that theory against YMIR mech armor and shields.

Mattock vs Viper comparison test shields and armor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb9RUdB7-ko&hd=1

The times

vs shields

viper 17.55 some how I missed a shot, scope looked on point, no idea how on earth it missed but whatever

mattock 15.35

vs armor

viper 7.834

mattock 11.734

Mattock beats the viper against shields, but the viper positively CRUSHED the mattock against armor. I would think if it was head shot versus headshot the viper would win flat out due to 50% headshot damage.

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I posted this in the vanguard sticky cause that's where the debate started but really I think this is good for general info so I may as well post it here in it's own thread for all to see.

Basically the whole thing started up based on a debate about what weapon to take on the collector ship and whether or not the mattock would be redundant on certain classes. I mentioned that while it may kinda be redundant, I felt that it takes down armor at a faster rate than the pistol and would save you money and research materiels on upgrades you wouldn't have to get since pistol replacement is essentially what I use it for. This is helped by the fact that I tend to choose missions based entirelyon upgrade priority so on my playthroughs I tend to have stuff like 4/5 AR and Shotgun upgrades but 1/5 pistol upgrades. Any way, a direct comparison was called for so here it is.

Mattock vs Carnifex comparison test vs armor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkjuPa8cKnw&hd=1

Here are the numbers

4/5 research upgrades for both

Carnifex 11.8 seconds

Mattock 11.297 seconds

take into account I missed wide right twice on the second round of mattock shots.

It's a small difference, but if it allows me to play through the game with only having to use 2 weapons instead of 3 or 4 then it's worth it IMO.

[edit here] Why is copy and paste formatting so jacked up on these boards? 

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Collider]

This could be the best thread ever.

[epoch_]

A+ thread, will read again.

[NICKjnp]

what is this... a support thread or something?

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

NICKjnp wrote...

what is this... a support thread or something?

Sinosleep for squadmate and LI for ME3?

[sinosleep]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Sinosleep for squadmate and LI for ME3?

I admit, that would be pretty sweet.

[NICKjnp]

Edited for editing sake.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 07 septembre 2010 - 04:05 .

[OniGanon]

Just for the lulz you should try using the Phalanx like a shotgun vs armour. The fire rate is slow enough to fit melee between shots.

Modifié par OniGanon, 07 septembre 2010 - 06:49 .

[sinosleep]

OniGanon wrote...

Just for the lulz you should try using the Phalanx like a shotgun vs armour. The fire rate is slow enough to fit melee between shots.

LMFAO, I might just do that.

[Mr_Raider]

NICKjnp wrote...

what is this... a support thread or something?

No, This is research, minus the Salarian scientist.

[sinosleep]

Mr_Raider wrote...

No, This is research, minus the Salarian scientist.

You should have seen it when it was first posted. I accidentally hit enter after having only typed sinosleep. Thread got 4 replies before I managed to get enough edits in.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 septembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[sinosleep]

Pistol comparison vol. 1 versus armor is now up.

[PsyrenY]

My thoughts on the pistol comparison - So Carnifex appears to do slightly more damage, but I think the Phalanx laser could offset this by making it easier to land headshots at long range, resulting in much higher DPS. In addition, the larger clip size on the Phalanx means less reloads, which means more DPS in a pitched fight. I'm thinking of a huge target with lots of armor, like a Scion or Praetorian.



What does everyone else think?

[sinosleep]

Though I rarely use pistols when I do I always use the phalanx. Even if it did predator damage I would still use it just for the laser sight. I LOVE me some laser sights in videogames. Makes it easier to line up head shots or shoulder shots when an enemy is technically behind cover but they've got a bit of shoulder poking out. It's very easy to miss with the other pistols at that point but the laser sight makes it easy with the phalanx.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:57 .

[sinosleep]

whoops

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[PsyrenY]

sinosleep wrote...

 I LOVE me some laser sights in videogames.

I have to agree, especially for us poor deprived console players

I recall, after downloading the DLC and whipping out the Phalanx the first time, my roommate exclaiming - "Hey, that's like Resident Evil!" We then proceeded to take turns kneecapping husks. Nostalgia!

[sinosleep]

LMFAO, they are kinda like zombies aren't they?

[OniGanon]

I'm surprised the Phalanx did so well, but I guess I shouldn't be. The Phalanx has by far the highest damage per clip, which means less reloading necessary, which lets its DPS catch up.

However, I think the result is skewed by the target being a YMIR. Try doing a comparison like that against the armour of Harbinger or a Krogan or something, and I think the results would be different. Also take greater care to keep distance, I'm not sure you were always far enough in that one to avoid ranged modifiers screwing things up.

Modifié par OniGanon, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[sinosleep]

OniGanon wrote...

I'm surprised the Phalanx did so well, but I guess I shouldn't be. The Phalanx has by far the highest damage per clip, which means less reloading necessary, which lets its DPS catch up.

However, I think the result is skewed by the target being a YMIR. Try doing a comparison like that against the armour of Harbinger or a Krogan or something, and I think the results would be different. Also take greater care to keep distance, I'm not sure you were always far enough in that one to avoid ranged modifiers screwing things up.

I actually tried staying further away on the first few attempts but I was running into major problems avoiding the rocket or getting it to trigger with any kind of regularity. I had to change the distance to get some consistency from the YMIR so it wouldn't scew the results one way or another.

Testing on Harbinger is a good idea, but I have to find a save in an approriate are with an approriate class. I'd wager an adept save for singularity would be good in order to lock him down consistently. That or I hear that flashbang bugs harbinger out somthing fierce as well. I won't be getting around to it today though, I want to get some standard play in with the game today.

[demersel]

I feel that carnifex is being neglected on these boards and it really shouldn't. Sure phalanx has a laser sight and one more spare clip, but it really is just a gimmick gun. It's rate of fire is very slow. When taking on YMIR mech with infinite health it doesn't look like much difference, but in combat, against a weaker enemy, or even against YMIR it is a huge difference.

and btw sinosleep, i think you missed a lot of shots with the carnifex...

Modifié par demersel, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:41 .

[OniGanon]

It's no problem Sinosleep. I don't mean to be critical. It's just that people tend to just look at the result numbers without really thinking over what it is they're watching, and why it yields those numbers. Like, if you hadn't provided an explanation in your shotgun tests against the YMIR, people might conclude the Eviscerator is a crap gun.



As I was getting at in the other thread, in realistic use, the DPS of the Phalanx doesn't hold up as well because in general you don't fire your pistol for ten seconds straight, allowing multiple reloads to get in the way of DPS.



Let's say, realistically, you spend 2.5 seconds firing your gun. This is roughly the time it takes to empty a Locust clip, which is conveniently about how long your shields hold up on Insanity against a room full of enemies. In 2.5 seconds, you can fire:

- 3 Phalanx shots = 329.4 base damage

- 6 Carnifex shots = 512.4 base damage

- 12 Predator shots = 446.4 base damage

- 10 Viper shots = 819 base damage

- 15 Mattock shots = 756 base damage (at 360RPM)

[Kronner]

And that is assuming you are firing at ONE target right? I seriously doubt anyone can manage to fire off 10 Viper shots (that hit) at 3 enemies in 2.5s.

Modifié par Kronner, 07 septembre 2010 - 06:32 .

[Simbacca]

I like the Phalanx on my Soldier because of Heightened AR and the situation appropriate ammo type. I bet it is the same with an Assassin Infiltrator. Burst damage is it's strength in the Heavy Pistol category.

Modifié par Simbacca, 07 septembre 2010 - 06:35 .

[PsyrenY]

OniGanon wrote...

As I was getting at in the other thread, in realistic use, the DPS of the Phalanx doesn't hold up as well because in general you don't fire your pistol for ten seconds straight, allowing multiple reloads to get in the way of DPS.

Let's say, realistically, you spend 2.5 seconds firing your gun. This is roughly the time it takes to empty a Locust clip, which is conveniently about how long your shields hold up on Insanity against a room full of enemies. In 2.5 seconds, you can fire:
- 3 Phalanx shots = 329.4 base damage
- 6 Carnifex shots = 512.4 base damage

Your theorycrafting is nice, but it seems that your discrepancy was not captured in sinosleep's vid. With an almost 66% damage increase, we should have seen a time difference of much more than a mere 1/3 of a second.

As for not needing to reload, most armored enemies will need at least one reload from the Carnifex. Even among armored enemies, a YMIR isn't that tough a cookie to crumble, and sino had 4/5 HP upgrades to boot. Imagine if the test subject had been a Praetorian or Scion? How much reloading would be required there?

And the most important difference of all - the laser sight, which does not degrade in accuracy with each sustained shot the way the Carnifex targeting reticule does. At the range in Sino's vid, landing every one of those shots on the YMIR's head would have been child's play. Stand a great deal further back, and it remains child's play for the Phalanx - but the Carnifex will start to have trouble unless you slow down your rate of fire enough for the accuracy to regen. It is a lose/lose/lose situation for Carnifex dps - either you line up your headshots carefully, go for easier body shots, move closer, or miss due to not doing the above. The Phalanx player has to do none of these.

It gets even better vs. Scions - hitting their miniscule weak spots is much easier with the Phalanx, and can be done while safely out of reach of their husk swarms or even their eezo shockwave.

[OniGanon]

It's not caught in Sinosleep's vid because he did not stop shooting at 2.5 seconds.

I find 3 shots with the Phalanx to be how many shots I usually pull off before needing to return to cover. Sometimes 4, but usually that leaves me near death. 12 shots? Not going to happen.

edit: I went and worked out the theoretical results of this test. Assuming the damage of two Phalanx clips is enough to take down the armour (as it was in the video)...

Phalanx ~ 2 x 6 x 109.8 = 1317.6 base dmg, 10.43s
Predator ~ 3 x 12 x 37.2 = 1339.2 base dmg, 10.06s
Carnifex ~ 16 x 85.4 = 1366.4 base dmg, 9.48s

Modifié par OniGanon, 07 septembre 2010 - 10:01 .