83 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr_Raider]

The phalanx comes out looking good here because your target is much larger than the laser and you are standing up. Trying to use it to pop someone's head while in cover requries a lot more time and precision. I like the Phalanx for what it is. A precision instrument.

[Bozorgmehr]

Nice topic, Sinosleep.



Most tests support my own experience, but I'm rather surprised how well the Viper performs against armor compared to Mattock. And you're testing it against YMIR without headshots! When used against other powerful enemies (Geth Primes, Krogan, Bosses) Viper also benefits the stunning effect; making it rather easy to empty entire clips without the enemy firing back (stunning doesn't work on YMIR) add headshots and Mattock looks pretty weak.

[Mr_Raider]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Nice topic, Sinosleep.

Most tests support my own experience, but I'm rather surprised how well the Viper performs against armor compared to Mattock.

Why? The viper has higher base damage, higher armor penetration, and when upgdraded gets boost to armor penetration even more. It's an armor destroying specialist!

[Athenau]

Both the Mattock and the Viper have a high chance to stun. It's very easy to stunlock things with either of them.

[numotsbane]

Just out of curiosity, how much does the DPS of each gun drop if you start to miss shots? I use the predator because I think, or have a feeling I guess, that when I miss a shot with the carnifex on a long range vorcha/ etc, its a near-disaster, but with a predator its not so much of an issue because of the high ROF.

was more of an issue in earlier playthroughs but now i'm stuck in the habit.

also I'm just a predator fanboy. I can't help it. its so forgiving.

[Bozorgmehr]

Mr_Raider wrote...

Why? The viper has higher base damage, higher armor penetration, and when upgdraded gets boost to armor penetration even more. It's an armor destroying specialist!

Yes Viper has higher base damage, but Sinosleep didn't compare damage per shot. The much better ROF (plus no recoil like using Viper) should make up for Viper's higher base damage, but the Mattock is far behind in the armor stripping department - I didn't expected the difference to be that great.

Athenau wrote...

Both the Mattock and the Viper have a high chance to stun. It's very easy to stunlock things with either of them.

Never noticed stunning effect with Mattock, have to check it to be sure.

[Athenau]

Mattock:

+HitReactions=
(BodyPart="Head",
AnimatedReaction=AI_CustomAction_StandardImpact,
ReactionChance=0.85,
bDeathReaction=false,
bFrontArc=true,
bRearArc=true,
bTriggerOnMove=true,
bTriggerOnIdle=true,
bIgnoreShields=true)

Viper:

HitReactions=
(BodyPart="Head",
AnimatedReaction=AI_CustomAction_StandardImpact
,ReactionChance=0.85,
bDeathReaction=false,
bFrontArc=true,
bRearArc=true,
bTriggerOnMove=true,
bTriggerOnIdle=true,
bIgnoreShields=true)

Headshots for both of them have a 85% chance to trigger the basic stun animation, even through defense. Very noticeable when you're shooting at something big, like a Geth Prime.

Actually, the Mattock copies a fair amount of stuff from the Viper, like recoil parameters, and, from a cursory glance, the hit reactions as well. People who say it's a scopeless Viper are closer than they know.

Modifié par Athenau, 10 septembre 2010 - 12:46 .

[Mr_Raider]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Never noticed stunning effect with Mattock, have to check it to be sure.

Not really a stun. More of a stagger effect. Only works on humanoids I think. Even an SMG at point blank range can do that.

[OniGanon]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Yes Viper has higher base damage, but Sinosleep didn't compare damage per shot. The much better ROF (plus no recoil like using Viper) should make up for Viper's higher base damage, but the Mattock is far behind in the armor stripping department - I didn't expected the difference to be that great.

Most people aren't able to consistently fire much faster than 300-420RPM while actually aiming at something. The Viper's ROF is 240RPM, so it's not that far behind what most people can do with the Mattock without Adrenaline Rush.

The Viper is also a Sniper Rifle, which means it has high bonus vs armour to begin with, and then gets a +50% bonus vs armour from research, then another +50% research bonus if it's a headshot. In comparison, Assault Rifles like the Mattock get a general +25% vs all defenses.

Finally, the Viper is basically just a scoped Carnifex on steroids. After seeing the Carnifex vs Mattock vid, the results of a Viper vs Mattock vid should have been expected.

Modifié par OniGanon, 10 septembre 2010 - 04:13 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

You know, a scoped pistol wouldn't be a bad additional weapon for the game...

[Bozorgmehr]

Athenau wrote...

Actually, the Mattock copies a fair amount of stuff from the Viper, like recoil parameters, and, from a cursory glance, the hit reactions as well. People who say it's a scopeless Viper are closer than they know.

Interesting, I haven't tested the Mattock yet, but it seems that it must have comparable stunning effect. Something I really liked using Viper. Thanks for the info.

Mr_Raider wrote...

Not really a stun. More of a stagger effect. Only works on humanoids I think. Even an SMG at point blank range can do that.

Athenau wrote...

Headshots for both of them have a 85% chance to trigger the basic stun animation, even through defense. Very noticeable when you're shooting at something big, like a Geth Prime.

Stunning works on Primes like Athenau said - you can empty an entire clip while Prime cannot do anything, only when you're reloading it fires back (just get behind cover)

OniGanon wrote...

Most people aren't able to consistently fire much faster than 300-420RPM while actually aiming at something. The Viper's ROF is 240RPM, so it's not that far behind what most people can do with the Mattock without Adrenaline Rush.

The Viper is also a Sniper Rifle, which means it has high bonus vs armour to begin with, and then gets a +50% bonus vs armour from research, then another +50% research bonus if it's a headshot. In comparison, Assault Rifles like the Mattock get a general +25% vs all defenses.

Viper starts with 0.35x multiplier and receives 0.5x multiplier (research) = 0.85x against armor
Mattock starts with 0.3x multiplier and receives 0.25x multiplier (research) = 0.55x against armor

It is difficult to mantain high rof with Mattock without missing a few shots, so I guess the 0.3x advantage the Viper has must explain the significant difference.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 10 septembre 2010 - 07:35 .

[Thresher Maw]

Interesting topic. I just wish there was a conclusive means of comparing shotgun performance on groups of regular enemies.

[OniGanon]

On regular enemies? Performance is not all that different in the hands of people who can handle the weapons, so it's more a thing of feel and preference than numbers.



On my Infiltrator I prefer the Katana/GPS because it has a decent punch to it while having a fast enough fire rate and enough ammo per clip that missing a shot isn't the end of the world. More powerful than the Scimitar, more forgiving than the Evi.



On Vanguard I prefer the Eviscerator because you're in slowdown and the enemy is staggered, so it's decidedly harder to miss.



On Soldier I like the Scimitar... I'm not really sure why. I just like how it works with AR.

[sinosleep]

Thread has been updated with Mattock vs Vindicator vs Armor vid.

[All-a-Mort]

Any chance of a comparison of the SMGs looking at damage against armor, shields and barriers and what effect ammo powers might have (eg. whether Tempest with AP rounds is comparable to the Locust vs armour, or whether a Locust with Warp or Disruptor ammo puts it on a par with the Tempest or Shuriken against shields and barriers? I'm assuming it's not just a case of: get Locust, keep. End of.

[OniGanon]

It's really sad to see the Vindicator fallen so low...

[Alamar2078]

OniGanon wrote...

It's really sad to see the Vindicator fallen so low...

The Vindy never felt right to me so I don't mind it falling low.

[Alamar2078]

I've been playing Soldiers a lot recently [with a little Engr w/ LotSB] so it's interesting how weapons fare in the hands of non-Soldiers.

[godlike13]

sinosleep wrote...

Shotgun comparison test vol. 3 vs armor



Ok, this volume 3 so you guys know what's up at this point no need for another long intro. Instead I'll start things off with what I'm sure is going to lead to a lot of WTF. How on earth did the charged shot gps take longer than the uncharged shot gps. Well, bad luck basically. I throw my melees in the same order every time and only do two in a row onthe evi where it fits in between the frames. If a weapon runs out of ammo after the melee strikes then I wait until I can shoot again to start using melee attacks again. And that's what happened to the GPS. Without the melee strike the first shot after the reload took an eternity and that's what made for the strange time.

Moving on though, here are all the times.

gps no charge: 8.2 seconds

gps charged on first shot: 8.35 seconds

evi: 8.433 seconds

scimi: 10.733

katana: 9.483

claymore reload trick: 7.317

claymore: 10.1

The claymore makes it's triumphant return as king of the hill!
__________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________

Shotgun comparison test vol. 2 vs shields



First things first, this vid isn't particularly practical but I couldn't thinkof too many other enemies to fight where a charged gps shot didn't killthem outright so YMIR mech it was. The reason this presents aproblem isthat for standard mobs a lot of what this video shows doesn't apply. For instance, the Evi looks particularly bad in this vid, but when it comes to standard mobs it's a one shot and melee finisher. The ammo rarely becomes an issue like it did in this vid forcing a reload 3/4 of the way into shooting off the shield and costing the gun a lot of time. Iguess you could take away that if you are going to fight heavy duty minions with a shotgun, the evi might not be the one to do it with.

Secondly,the reason I melee is that you would be silly not to. There is a gap in between shots during which there is literally nothing else you could do to increase your damage out put other than to go ahead and melee in between shots. The number of melees for the different weapons are timed based on the number of frames in between reloads. You WILL lose DPS if you don't melee in between shots, even on the fast shooting scimitar.

Alright,with all that out of the way, here are the numbers

uncharged GPS 3.517

first shot charged GPS 1.9

evi 6.967

scimi4.9

katana 4.683

reload trick claymore 3.65

claymore7.367

_________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________

Sweet, thanks for this. Given i suck at the reload trick, which is borderline glitching IMHO , the GPS is defiantly the one for me and my Vanguard .   That thing sure is effective

[sinosleep]

Thread has been updated with adrenaline rush damage comparison.

[PrinceLionheart]

Schmitar is still my gun of choice for the Vanguard. I'm not to hot with the Claymore reload trick and I like the safety net of having extra backup ammo.

[sinosleep]

The scimitar is a great weapon, and the one I used in the majority of my vanguard vids. I like pretty much all the shotguns to be honest.

[OniGanon]

No Viper? Pretty sure it would have scored well...



Heavy Pistols scoring so high shouldn't be surprising, as they're anti-armour weapons. Hell I'm surprised the Revenant and Vindicator did so well.

[IntrepidProdigy]

Hmm, any new data on the mattock with all 7 damage upgrades vs. the viper with all 6 upgrades? I don't suspect the numbers against each other would change drastically, but more curious than anything.

[sinosleep]

OniGanon wrote...

No Viper? Pretty sure it would have scored well...

Heavy Pistols scoring so high shouldn't be surprising, as they're anti-armour weapons. Hell I'm surprised the Revenant and Vindicator did so well.

I got lazy. I knew it wasn't going to score better than the widow so I didn't test it. I honestly wasn't planning on testing that many weapons and then next thing I knew I had tested practically everything in the game. Didn't remember I had skipped the other sniper rifles initially until after I was already uploading. I could reup this vid with the others included I suppose.