I wouldn't be so sure... The Viper can get off... how many shots in AR? 5? 6? That's more base damage than the Widow, but the Widow has a higher armour modifier, so... I expect it would be pretty darn close.
sinosleep's weapon comparison compilation thread (will be updated with requests) (adrenaline rush comparison vs armor now up!)
Débuté par
sinosleep
, sept. 07 2010 03:48
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#52
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:28
sinosleep
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Nah, it's less than that. I'll go ahead and record the incisor and viper.
#53
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 12:06
sinosleep
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Video has been completely redone, viper, mantis, and incisor added. Helpful pauses and a few minor changes in the order have been made (vindicator and claymore moved up).
Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 12:07 .
#54
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 12:45
SmokeyNinjas
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Hmm which is the bigger bonus modifier close range or headshot?
#55
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 02:26
Kronner
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I wonder what would the results be if you did it outside of AR and with Inferno rounds. Revenant/Claymore would definitely see much better placement imho.
#56
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 02:33
sinosleep
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The rev can't really place much higher than it is. The widow, rev, and viper all came in at around the same damage, so the best the rev could do is move into a clear second instead of a 3 way tie since any benefit the rev would receive the mattock will as well. In the 20 crates vid you see the mattock take down YMIR armor in one AR burst from way outside of melee range. The claymore though might be able to make up some significant ground.
Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:34 .
#59
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 03:01
sinosleep
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ryoldschool wrote...
Where is incisor on list?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! You have GOT to be ****ing kidding me! How the hell did I manage to not catch the fact that I didn't splice in the mantis and incisor when I made the damn thing, then missed it again while adding the pauses on youtube? Basically they were both pretty crap. I don't think either even broke into the word armor.
#60
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 03:25
OniGanon
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Point blank damage bonus is 2x. Headshot is, I think, 2x for SRs and 1.5x for others.
Not sure an ammo power would matter.
If A = 2B, increasing A and B by 60% doesn't change the fact that A = 2B.
Every gun would get the same benefit, so their relative rank wouldn't change. In theory, anyway.
Taking out Adrenaline Rush would hurt the Mattock and maybe the Predator and Viper, but we've seen that the Mattock reaches Heavy Pistol level damage vs Armour even without AR so the ranks still shouldn't change too much.
Not sure an ammo power would matter.
If A = 2B, increasing A and B by 60% doesn't change the fact that A = 2B.
Every gun would get the same benefit, so their relative rank wouldn't change. In theory, anyway.
Taking out Adrenaline Rush would hurt the Mattock and maybe the Predator and Viper, but we've seen that the Mattock reaches Heavy Pistol level damage vs Armour even without AR so the ranks still shouldn't change too much.
#61
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 03:30
sinosleep
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Rapid fire weapons benefit more from ammo powers so it could potentially make a difference. I know back when the inferno ammo vs armor piercing vs warp ammo debate was still raging I was making all my posts based on the fact that with shotguns it made no difference which of the three you used as far as damage went, they all required the same number of shots. I was told this wouldn't be the case with assault rifles, and when I ran some tests it turned out to be the case. AP and Warp did save you some shots on an assault rifle where they wouldn't on a shotgun.
#62
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 03:31
PsyrenY
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OniGanon wrote...
Not sure an ammo power would matter.
If A = 2B, increasing A and B by 60% doesn't change the fact that A = 2B.
Every gun would get the same benefit, so their relative rank wouldn't change. In theory, anyway.
Actualy, Sniper Rifles don't get the close range damage bonus.
#63
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 05:14
sinosleep
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Ok, hopefully third time will be the charm. Not only did I quadruple check to make sure I got the sniper rifles in there, I went ahead and tested the geth pulse rifle as well because hell why not.
#64
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 07:01
OniGanon
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Optimystic_X wrote...
Actualy, Sniper Rifles don't get the close range damage bonus.
*scratches head* I never said they did, dood.
#65
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 08:08
PsyrenY
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Oh, I thought you were talking about his "Viper vs. Mattock" comparison.
#66
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 09:38
sinosleep
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A youtube user happened upon some shotgun knowledge I was not aware of. 1.) almost all the testing I had done with regards to using melee in between shots was on armored targets, so I never thought to test against shielded ones where shotguns receive a larger bonus. For most shotguns this is a non-issue due to the slow firing rate but for the scimitar it matters. Turns out the scimitar actually kills shield using targets quicker WITHOUT the melee in between than with it. I got a 3.6 second time against the YMIR mech instead of the 4.7 second time using melee. Then he posted this vid where he performed a trick I wasn't aware of. Apparently you can kinda do a reload trick without reloading. If you press the buttons simultaneously there is no delay between the shot and the melee. Again, for other shotguns not all that important, for the scimitar it makes a huge difference though. He got a substantially faster vs armor time on his vid.
#67
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 09:47
lazuli
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Fascinating. I'll have to give this a try on the xbox.
#68
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 09:53
Mr_Raider
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sinosleep wrote...
. Turns out the scimitar actually kills shield using targets quicker WITHOUT the melee in between than with it. I got a 3.6 second time against the YMIR mech instead of the 4.7 second time using melee. Then he posted this vid where he performed a trick I wasn't aware of. Apparently you can kinda do a reload trick without reloading. If you press the buttons simultaneously there is no delay between the shot and the melee. Again, for other shotguns not all that important, for the scimitar it makes a huge difference though. He got a substantially faster vs armor time on his vid.
That video is just sick!
#69
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 10:44
1xs3thx1
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Sinosleep, I love you.
LMAO
You did a really good job here, thank you.
LMAO
You did a really good job here, thank you.
#70
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 03:48
lazuli
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The Scimitar shot + melee trick works on an xbox, but it can't be pulled off repeatedly due to the inability to turn while performing it. All the same, it's great for one or two shots, allowing you to take down basic enemies much faster than you would otherwise. Just don't get greedy.
Thanks for sharing it, sinosleep.
Thanks for sharing it, sinosleep.
#71
Guest_kajtarp_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:27
Guest_kajtarp_*
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As i said in an another thread, your test is really nice, but still im not really sure that gives accurate information. Sure it can give result about DPS, but you cant get such situation in the game for real.
What my problem is:
-mechs arent that common, max 1-2 per level while you fight dozens of other opponents.
-playing for real, without god mode and having a YMIR in melee distance, those weapons would work and feel very different. your test completely skips any range/accuracy or ammo problem.
For example judging your results, i could think the eviscerator shotgun is crap. While playing with it, it prooves better then the Katana or the Scimitar for me. One shot kill for most normal opponents, or one shot+melee, while having alot better range. When opponents are just a little further from melee distance, the Evi can make still a great amount of damage, while the less ranged Scimitar or Katana would totally suck in that situation, making only **** amount of damage.
Revenant, Vindicator and Mattock gives completely different result if you shoot smaller opponents from distance, or close range, or if you shoot bigger opponents from distance or close range.
Rev ain that good choice to kill alot of smaller enemies from distance,but Vindicator and Mattock is excellent for that, while it absolutely owns anything if you want to kill a gunship or a Geth Prime, or if you move to a closer range with your Rev.
So in my opinion your test is awesome just looking at pure numbers, but it carries alot of misleading information what would proove to be different in practice.
Of course i dont mean that comment as an offense, i really appreciate the time you spent doing this test.
What my problem is:
-mechs arent that common, max 1-2 per level while you fight dozens of other opponents.
-playing for real, without god mode and having a YMIR in melee distance, those weapons would work and feel very different. your test completely skips any range/accuracy or ammo problem.
For example judging your results, i could think the eviscerator shotgun is crap. While playing with it, it prooves better then the Katana or the Scimitar for me. One shot kill for most normal opponents, or one shot+melee, while having alot better range. When opponents are just a little further from melee distance, the Evi can make still a great amount of damage, while the less ranged Scimitar or Katana would totally suck in that situation, making only **** amount of damage.
Revenant, Vindicator and Mattock gives completely different result if you shoot smaller opponents from distance, or close range, or if you shoot bigger opponents from distance or close range.
Rev ain that good choice to kill alot of smaller enemies from distance,but Vindicator and Mattock is excellent for that, while it absolutely owns anything if you want to kill a gunship or a Geth Prime, or if you move to a closer range with your Rev.
So in my opinion your test is awesome just looking at pure numbers, but it carries alot of misleading information what would proove to be different in practice.
Of course i dont mean that comment as an offense, i really appreciate the time you spent doing this test.
Modifié par kajtarp, 26 septembre 2010 - 08:30 .
#72
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:37
sinosleep
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As I said in the other thread, that's why I made the disclaimer I did in the first vid. The tests are good for somethings and not for others, and certainly aren't a good barometer for what weapons are best against your standard mobs. The problem with testing against standard mobs is that EVERY weapon in the game owns standard mobs so there's not much to see. Just look at this video. All the shotguns kill the same 4 mooks in essentially the same amount of time, so the test tells you even less than the mech tests.
The video I just linked to also shows why I don't tend to test on multiple enemies, because you can't consistently recreate the conditions. Enemies move around, they spawn at different places, you might get stunned by a rocket in one run and not in the next. It's another reason why I tend to just go with mech vids and call it a day, because they are easy to control. They follow the same pattern each and every time, fire off the machine gun, you step in close, they fire the rocket launcher, then they go to the machine gun for a nice long run. Giving you ample time to test what you're testing for.
The video I just linked to also shows why I don't tend to test on multiple enemies, because you can't consistently recreate the conditions. Enemies move around, they spawn at different places, you might get stunned by a rocket in one run and not in the next. It's another reason why I tend to just go with mech vids and call it a day, because they are easy to control. They follow the same pattern each and every time, fire off the machine gun, you step in close, they fire the rocket launcher, then they go to the machine gun for a nice long run. Giving you ample time to test what you're testing for.
#73
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 08:32
swn32
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Well i did some shotgun testing myself using melee firing. It significantly improves the time taken to deplete armor for most shotguns (not only the schimitar). You can check the video here. Charged GPS is still the best against shields and Claymore is still the best against armor. However the rankings of other weapons change a little.
#74
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 09:45
Zan Mura
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Is there a chart about the ME2 weapons anywhere? I mean, ME1 is everywhere which is kinda weird considering you can see all that in the game as is. But with ME2 there seems to be no other way save for grinding through wikipedia and doing a lot of personal excel calculations to determine the stat differences of the stuff there?
#75
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 11:31
sinosleep
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swn32 wrote...
Well i did some shotgun testing myself using melee firing. It significantly improves the time taken to deplete armor for most shotguns (not only the schimitar). You can check the video here. Charged GPS is still the best against shields and Claymore is still the best against armor. However the rankings of other weapons change a little.
Well it's good to have both sets of times since there are people that either can't or won't use melee in the way it's employed here. It's the same reason I included no reload trick claymores in the vids.
