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Lair of the Shadow Broker Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)


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#1151
Jaron Oberyn

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So after Liara comes to the Normandy, you don't get any more dialogue from her?



-Polite

#1152
Fiery Phoenix

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

So after Liara comes to the Normandy, you don't get any more dialogue from her?

-Polite

No. The DLC essentially ends after the Normandy scene.

#1153
nosferatu94

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thank u bioware for crafting such a beautiful and outstanding piece of dlc. it had the perfect mix: humor, action, tension and crazy boss battles... and liara of course. thanx again bioware. can't wait for ME 3!!!

#1154
The Sapien

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Just wanted to say, thanks BioWare!

That... was... AWESOME!

11 out of 10!

#1155
theelementslayer

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

So after Liara comes to the Normandy, you don't get any more dialogue from her?

-Polite


Nah, but the dialouge you do get on the normandy. tis amazing.

#1156
Fiery Phoenix

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It's simply the best DLC I've ever played in a game, and I've been downloading/buying DLC for a few years now.

#1157
Fiery Phoenix

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theelementslayer wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

So after Liara comes to the Normandy, you don't get any more dialogue from her?

-Polite


Nah, but the dialouge you do get on the normandy. tis amazing.

And that's where the beauty is... No matter how much I say, I can't express my love for it.

#1158
theelementslayer

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FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

So after Liara comes to the Normandy, you don't get any more dialogue from her?

-Polite


Nah, but the dialouge you do get on the normandy. tis amazing.

And that's where the beauty is... No matter how much I say, I can't express my love for it.


They definitly got some new facial expressions for Liara and the writing...wow. The emotion, asking if you are alright, every little detail we asked for was covered. It was by far, the BEST mission of the game. ANd I loved the game to death

#1159
Rockworm503

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hawat333 wrote...

Now, on my 4th playthrough, I gambled. This is my experimental character who actually had a romance with our favorite blueling, and well: If you want to keep your current LI, then, in the end don't choose the 'Hug her' option as the game will recognize the comforting act as a mating ritual. (Oh come on, guys at BioWare, you haven't ever hugged a women out of friendship when she was down?)
So
- for the semi-forced romance with no indication
- for the former SB itself.
Of course it's a matter of preference. The character itself was right, even the suit that gave him a comical relief, but the Machine Gun with a Shield, it was too much comics for me. But again, it's highly depends on the player.

Still the best DLC up to this date.


That explains the end scene lol.
I'm like how am I keeping a romance with Liara when I never started one in the first place.  I expected them to do it then she says something about Jake (my current romance) and leaves... I was like what did you just come into my quarters in a dress just to talk about my feelings?
lol it felt weird to me.

#1160
Terror_K

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Played it through, here's my review...

Now this is how you do a DLC. I think that this is not only the best ME2 DLC, and the best DLC I've ever played of anything, but also the best thing in Mass Effect 2.

The whole thing was really well balanced and designed, with just the right amount of combat, dialogue, extra stuff, suspense, action, romance, drama, comedy and sci-fi goodness. For some reason I was playing this and almost all my issues with ME2 melted away (with one exception when I acidentally vaulted over cover and almost died from it).

For some reason the whole thing reminded me of playing ME1 for some reason, and I'm not entirely sure why (perhaps it was Liara being back, perhaps it was the level design, perhaps it was the pushing aside of Cerberus, perhaps it was fighting on TSB's ship reminding me a lot the final Citadel fight, perhaps it was all these things), but that's a compliment from me.

The level design felt more natural for one. Much of ME2 felt like levels designed in a game rather than places, but this felt more natural somehow. I realise that it was probably no less linear and set-up, but somehow it felt more natural. This even goes for the car chase, which while mostly on a set path really did feel like a great rollercoaster ride, and did a fantastic job of making the environment seem real and giving the illusion of such. I always love Illium so that stuff was great, and the Shadow Broker's ship was just epic (as I said, I had fond flashbacks to when I first did the final Citadel run in the original with this).

I loved the car chase. Just short enough to not be tedious, and long enough to be satisfactory. It was fun, looked great, had some great music and cutscenes assosicated with it, some great setpieces and easter eggs and genuinely funny banter between Liara and Shepard. I hope we get something similar in ME3 at least once now (but not too much... part if its charm is its length and one-off nature).

The combat seemed better here than normal too. It felt a little more intense and I liked that you could approach things differently here and there. I'd always complained that I felt ME2 didn't take fully advantage of its TPS gameplay, and for some reason this DLC's combat felt like it changed up a few things here and there, which was nice and something I'd like to see more of in future DLC and in the third game. Things like being able to electrocute the enemies and the way the bossfights played out felt fresh and added extra dimensions to the whole thing.

I have to single out the bossfights, as both were great. The first was just nice because it was different, and it was good to see an enemy using the biotic charge for once instead of just Shepard (even if the charge was used in a slightly different manner). The final fight was neat too, with the enemy's shield adding an extra dimension, as well as the need to melee him.

There was a good amount of dialogue and some nice interrupts too. In fact, I missed a couple because they came and went so quickly when I wasn't looking for them and I had to jump back because of it. I like lots of dialogue and this didn't disappoint. Non-combat stuff like searching Liara's apartment and all the neat stuff you get to play with at the end was nice too.

The storyline itself was excellent, and felt more coherent and focussed than the stuff in the game. It reminded me a little of a mini ME1 if you get me. If future DLC and ME3 is written and executed half as well as this I'll be very happy. The whole thing is so well balanced between exposition, action, drama, romance, comedy, closure and possible foreshadowing, and flowed really well, with interesting characters, situations and revelations.

I love the stuff you can do post-ending too. Watching the videos, changing the course of things, reading into your crew and other personalities, etc. A great addition to the game that adds more customisation and options outside of combat, and just some fun stuff. I hope this is foreshadowing and returns in ME3 in a greater role (it would make a great base of operations beyond The Normandy. I'm hoping for my Paragon Femshep that Liara kind of becomes my new TIM, what with her hating Cerberus and Liara looking to be more helpful in the future with her new set-up).

About the only thing that disappointed me about this was the revelation of The Shadow Broker himself. The best way of describing my issue is to compare it to some mystery novels, whereby you're reading through and then the detective reveals the murder was... some guy that was never in the book at all up until this point, and never revealed as a suspect. The revelation of who The Shadow Broker was really is a case of "he's this guy who you've never seen before and has never been mentioned or alluded to." That was a bit of a disappointment to me to be honest, as I was hoping it was somebody that's been heard of before or seen at least in some way. It wasn't a complete disappointment mind you, and did result in an interesting bossfight and possible foreshadowing as to who might have really been pulling the string (he did, after all, have some rather Reaper-esque dialogue in his monologue (particurarly using the phrase "you fumble in ignorance" ala Sovereign). After reading Retribution and seeing how Reapers can control their agents so easily I definitely lets me think.

Saving the best for last, I've hot to mention Liara of course. Good to see her back, and there was so much I loved about the way she was integrated (for reference, I was playing a Femshep who had romanced her). From the slightly awkward beginnings where Shepard is concerned about her and Liara's obsessiveness worries her, through to the way they both slowly connect again with Liara's conflicting emotions and up to the final moments, this was handled very well. Many were disappointed with how Liara was handled in the vanilla game, but I feel what we have here more than makes up for it. I love how we have the new Liara for a start slowly getting worn away as old Liara peeks through to finally end up with a character who is somewhat neither and both at the end, but a little closer to ME1 Liara. Reading the comics helps of course, especially with the Feron stuff, but overall I really like how the whole thing panned out.

The romance stuff was brilliantly done. I loved not only that it's acknowledged so well, but that the two year gap is as well, and how one really has to insist and work to rekindle what was once lost to do it. It's just the right mix of sweet, bittersweet, romantic, slightly cheesy and classic cinematic, and there felt like there was more effort and care put into this romance alone than all the other ME2 ones combined, IMO. Perhaps its the fact it spans two games and the nature of it, but this felt more epic, natural and sweet to me. The drink and talk (and a little more...) on The Normandy with her was the perfect capper, not only to see the action completely put aside for emotion and dialogue but to allow Shepard to come through as a person a little more than normal. I especially loved Liara's asking how Shepard really was and how she felt about it all, giving you a chance to let the guard down, show some humanity and customise your Shepard a little more in the process.

Overall this was a DLC masterpiece, IMO. Everything about it was just pure class and win. It was like the perfect cup of coffee or a rich chocolate cake baked to perfection. And there was no Hammerhead, which is always a bonus (it was kind of the one thing that let Overlord down, IMO). I hope future story-driven DLC can live up to the standard that this set, because if it can we're in for a real treat between now and when ME3 arrives.

Grade 10/10

#1161
TMA LIVE

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Rockworm503 wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

Now, on my 4th playthrough, I gambled. This is my experimental character who actually had a romance with our favorite blueling, and well: If you want to keep your current LI, then, in the end don't choose the 'Hug her' option as the game will recognize the comforting act as a mating ritual. (Oh come on, guys at BioWare, you haven't ever hugged a women out of friendship when she was down?)
So
- for the semi-forced romance with no indication
- for the former SB itself.
Of course it's a matter of preference. The character itself was right, even the suit that gave him a comical relief, but the Machine Gun with a Shield, it was too much comics for me. But again, it's highly depends on the player.

Still the best DLC up to this date.


That explains the end scene lol.
I'm like how am I keeping a romance with Liara when I never started one in the first place.  I expected them to do it then she says something about Jake (my current romance) and leaves... I was like what did you just come into my quarters in a dress just to talk about my feelings?
lol it felt weird to me.


Well, you're friends, and she wanted to look good.

#1162
Litos456

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Rockworm503 wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

Now, on my 4th playthrough, I gambled. This is my experimental character who actually had a romance with our favorite blueling, and well: If you want to keep your current LI, then, in the end don't choose the 'Hug her' option as the game will recognize the comforting act as a mating ritual. (Oh come on, guys at BioWare, you haven't ever hugged a women out of friendship when she was down?)
So
- for the semi-forced romance with no indication
- for the former SB itself.
Of course it's a matter of preference. The character itself was right, even the suit that gave him a comical relief, but the Machine Gun with a Shield, it was too much comics for me. But again, it's highly depends on the player.

Still the best DLC up to this date.


That explains the end scene lol.
I'm like how am I keeping a romance with Liara when I never started one in the first place.  I expected them to do it then she says something about Jake (my current romance) and leaves... I was like what did you just come into my quarters in a dress just to talk about my feelings?
lol it felt weird to me.


Dude yeah I had the same problem. I was totally ready to cheat on Tali when she just left.
Damn I wish I romanced her in ME1. I hated her back then, but now I think Liara is amazing. She's done more for Shepard than anyone else has, that includes Tali and whatever other romance options, etc.

Seriously... wow. I wish  Icould romance her now.
Can someone describe what happens when you do romance her?

#1163
MrnDvlDg161

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MrFob wrote...

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

And as BW may have --- it seems that the cooks within Bio Ware's kitchen can change their mind and dish out something completely different by the means they crafted ME2.  So you know --- anything could happen in that route ---  --- what I'm just saying is, if I were Shepard, and these people were telling me  " Nahhh...don't worry-a-bout-it... just ****hettabouit and move on to what your doing, we'll keep things in check on our side... oh and by the way --- don't do anything the TIM wouldn't want you to do! " 

I can see the TIM being devious and doing it anyway.  He seems to be a man of multiple layers of insurances.

Think of the bad ass scene you can up with as a thriller during ME3.

TIM:  I'm sorry Shepard, you cost me too much in this rouge buisness of yours...I'm afraid I'm going to have to shut you down.

Shepard:   And how are you going to do that?

TIM:  With this ---   ( smoothly taps a key on his kisok) ... with... this!  ( tries again) 

Miranda:  You mean the DNA Regeneration module?   ( dangles module in a glass tube)

Shepard:   ( Fires off a round and leaves TIM spinning in his chair with a smoking hole in his head)  Consider this my 2 Weeks Notice.  ( lights an unused cigerette from the flaming hole in his head)  


Fair enough about the BW guys. And such a dialogue would be pretty cool (as renegade option) though I guess they'd have to inroduce that implant somehow. I'd love it if they would somehow be able to transport Shep to the base in a way, so that he suddenly steps out of his own hologram into TIMs "office". I'd like to see the look on his face:o.



Ha!  that would be good ---


TIM:  Shepard you... your... comming through my screen?

Shepard:  (  Performs a slam as TIM is projected backwards and crashes through the window with his chair wrapped and knarled around him)  " I said my TERMS!" 

#1164
MrnDvlDg161

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Litos456 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

Now, on my 4th playthrough, I gambled. This is my experimental character who actually had a romance with our favorite blueling, and well: If you want to keep your current LI, then, in the end don't choose the 'Hug her' option as the game will recognize the comforting act as a mating ritual. (Oh come on, guys at BioWare, you haven't ever hugged a women out of friendship when she was down?)
So
- for the semi-forced romance with no indication
- for the former SB itself.
Of course it's a matter of preference. The character itself was right, even the suit that gave him a comical relief, but the Machine Gun with a Shield, it was too much comics for me. But again, it's highly depends on the player.

Still the best DLC up to this date.


That explains the end scene lol.
I'm like how am I keeping a romance with Liara when I never started one in the first place.  I expected them to do it then she says something about Jake (my current romance) and leaves... I was like what did you just come into my quarters in a dress just to talk about my feelings?
lol it felt weird to me.


Dude yeah I had the same problem. I was totally ready to cheat on Tali when she just left.
Damn I wish I romanced her in ME1. I hated her back then, but now I think Liara is amazing. She's done more for Shepard than anyone else has, that includes Tali and whatever other romance options, etc.

Seriously... wow. I wish  Icould romance her now.
Can someone describe what happens when you do romance her?


Their is a youtube my friend, all you have to do is clickty click  " Liara Romance"  and you shall be hooked up.  Even a compilation of all the main dialouges if you felt like it.

Or..

Play again. :wizard:

#1165
Jade Elf

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Well written, Terror. And yes, I agree completely! A DLC like this makes me glad I have so many Sheps to play through with!

#1166
MrnDvlDg161

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I donno though... would you think it be better if Shepard has it out with TIM....



Or Shepard simply closes the door and lets Jack do what she wants?



Oooo... brutal.






#1167
Jaron Oberyn

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theelementslayer wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

So after Liara comes to the Normandy, you don't get any more dialogue from her?

-Polite


Nah, but the dialouge you do get on the normandy. tis amazing.

And that's where the beauty is... No matter how much I say, I can't express my love for it.


They definitly got some new facial expressions for Liara and the writing...wow. The emotion, asking if you are alright, every little detail we asked for was covered. It was by far, the BEST mission of the game. ANd I loved the game to death


I'll admit it was the most satisfying DLC they've produced so far. The romance scene in the end if you stayed faithful to Liara was pretty nice. Didn't expect that honestly. Beats all of the Mass 2 romance scenes. Doing a Vanguard playthrough for my own "canon" shepard. Can't wait to play this DLC a second time. Tela Vasir's battle made me love the Vanguard class :P They need to keep it for Mass 3 with Biotic Charge, but make it where you can charge anywhere without having to target enemies. 


-Polite

#1168
Emperor Mars

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Outstanding.
I loved every bit of this dlc...really everything.
The chase, fight with the spectre (main shep is a vanguard, made that fight more badass), the fight on top of the shadow brokers ship, and his fight as well, all outstanding. The Normandy scene was especially well done. I did it before the suicide mission and even if the "dialogue leaned heavily towards it" pre mission was still outstanding.
Also the addition of access to the shadow brokers intell was an great plus. Seeing legions gamer profile was hilarious, and heartwarming if you notice the eden prime one. Looking at talis made me feel a little bad when I had to tell her I wasnt interested later on. Added serious depth to guys like Bailey who I hope we see more off, and added Liaras "father"...nifty (not what I was expecting mind you). For the first time ever, in the history of my many playthroughs of this game, I felt really bad for Miranda (actually that would be the first time I felt emotion towards miranda).
//DOWNLOAD 0.06T AUDIO BOOKS//
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Seriously bioware 12/10 I have played full $50-60 dollar games worse than this dlc.

The empire supports your future efforts wholeheartedly.Now get your asses to work on the next one. (or me3...thats good too.)

Modifié par Emperor Mars, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:06 .


#1169
Gibb_Garrus

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dear god. THat was bloody amazing.



I really didn't like the fact that liara became the new broker, but can see how it can help shep in the future.



And the romance. i was going to romance tali, but decided to stay faithful to liara, and am extremely glad i did. The romance scenes with her were great, and her personality has become so much more interesting compared to her in ME1. Liaras now my canonical LI.

#1170
etarm

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Really enjoyed the DLC. Great scenes, combat sequences, etc, not to mention romancing Liara again. I thought Bioware handled the relationship scenes & dialog very well.



I agree with the other posters who would have liked dialog between the old team mates & Liara. I took Garrus and Tali along especially because I they were "old crew".



I was a little disappointed it wasn't longer, but it was definitely worth it. Looking forward to an Ashley/Kaiden DLC. Hope that's next...

#1171
Terror_K

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Emperor Mars wrote...

Seriously bioware 12/10 I have played full $50-60 dollar games worse than this dlc.


Yeah... like Modern Warfare 2. It's about the same length, yet over 10 times the price and nowhere near as satisfying. :whistle:

#1172
Litos456

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MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Litos456 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

Now, on my 4th playthrough, I gambled. This is my experimental character who actually had a romance with our favorite blueling, and well: If you want to keep your current LI, then, in the end don't choose the 'Hug her' option as the game will recognize the comforting act as a mating ritual. (Oh come on, guys at BioWare, you haven't ever hugged a women out of friendship when she was down?)
So
- for the semi-forced romance with no indication
- for the former SB itself.
Of course it's a matter of preference. The character itself was right, even the suit that gave him a comical relief, but the Machine Gun with a Shield, it was too much comics for me. But again, it's highly depends on the player.

Still the best DLC up to this date.


That explains the end scene lol.
I'm like how am I keeping a romance with Liara when I never started one in the first place.  I expected them to do it then she says something about Jake (my current romance) and leaves... I was like what did you just come into my quarters in a dress just to talk about my feelings?
lol it felt weird to me.


Dude yeah I had the same problem. I was totally ready to cheat on Tali when she just left.
Damn I wish I romanced her in ME1. I hated her back then, but now I think Liara is amazing. She's done more for Shepard than anyone else has, that includes Tali and whatever other romance options, etc.

Seriously... wow. I wish  Icould romance her now.
Can someone describe what happens when you do romance her?


Their is a youtube my friend, all you have to do is clickty click  " Liara Romance"  and you shall be hooked up.  Even a compilation of all the main dialouges if you felt like it.

Or..

Play again. :wizard:


No I meant what the DLC is like, and what happens at the end in the Normandy if you romanced her in ME1. I know more or less about romancing her in ME1, I've watched videos for that... but I meant what the DLC does with it. I know there's additional dialogue/emotion and perhaps even some eternity embracing business, I'd want to see it because  I like Liara a lot now, enough to cheat on Tali only if I could. That's what I want to know >.>

#1173
theelementslayer

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'll admit it was the most satisfying DLC they've produced so far. The romance scene in the end if you stayed faithful to Liara was pretty nice. Didn't expect that honestly. Beats all of the Mass 2 romance scenes. Doing a Vanguard playthrough for my own "canon" shepard. Can't wait to play this DLC a second time. Tela Vasir's battle made me love the Vanguard class :P They need to keep it for Mass 3 with Biotic Charge, but make it where you can charge anywhere without having to target enemies. 


-Polite


Ive always been more of a CQC infiltrator, though that charge was annoying when I was cloaked and shed hit me. But the  romance scene. I think I am in love with it. They did everything we asked. More Shep emotion, done. Humour, done, plans for the future, done. Twas the best romance in any BW game.

Keep it up guys at BW.

#1174
Yeti13

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I think were all missing the point here, THE IM IS A LIAR, he is infatuated with asari!!!!!!!





+++++ Legion is an 67th level ardart yakshi

#1175
Litos456

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Nevermind, i just found the cutscene on youtube. Wow, it was amazing. I so wish I romanced her in ME1 instead of Trashley. Ugh.