1867 réponses à ce sujet

[krimesh]

Yeah, well waiting for more Mass Effect just makes more Mass Effect taste sweeter...

[Animositisomina]

Anyone else concerned that the old addage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" will be true of Liara in ME3?

[krimesh]

Nah, she has Shepard to keep her honest. Relatively speaking.

[Axeface]

Animositisomina wrote...
Anyone else concerned that the old addage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" will be true of Liara in ME3?

My Shep wont let that happen, he wants.. "Marriage..... Lots of little blue babies"

[Animositisomina]

True, true. Both good points. I just hope we don't have to kill her or something crazy like that.

Modifié par Animositisomina, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:37 .

[krimesh]

She might live or die depending on Shepard's decisions, but I don't think she could turn into an antagonist, or a fixed death. The former wouldn't fit her character (some people have claimed that her character was inconsistent between ME and ME2, but that's simply not true). Both don't make sense if you think about the style of the first two games: it was possible to save everyone Shep could have built an emotional connection to; worst case was that you had to choose. No point in changing that unless you want to make a few fans cry. So don't worry.

EDIT: Liara does have the tendency to react to stress in a Vasir-Saren-TIM-ish way, "to make the call", to do what she thinks is necessary, to get trapped in a bitter, screwed up mind-set. But, no matter if you romance her or not, her strongest loyalty is towards Shepard. This will keep her at least as honest as Shepard is. Again, no worries.

Modifié par krimesh, 11 septembre 2010 - 09:13 .

[MwRDKY]

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I think she'll have a valuable role as the new Shadow Broker. Surely you get some action with her (no pun intended) in ME3, just not as a full on squad member. ME2 Liara's Biotics pale in comparison to ME1 Liara. I'd rather have Samara or Jack.

Liara's role now even more prominent, as she's now the most powerful intel source in the known galaxy, which'd be a great asset to have when Shepard needs to deal with other races or figures in ME3, though when comes to dealing with the Reaper invasion that might be a different matter - y'know, that's like thousands of most powerful dreadnoughts barrel down at ya, and how much trouble this galaxy has just to take out one.

[Sledgehammer44mm]

Best DLC ever.... Please bring out DLC for Ashley along with one for Miranda and Samara.

[krimesh]

MwRDKY wrote...

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I think she'll have a valuable role as the new Shadow Broker. Surely you get some action with her (no pun intended) in ME3, just not as a full on squad member. ME2 Liara's Biotics pale in comparison to ME1 Liara. I'd rather have Samara or Jack.

Liara's role now even more prominent, as she's now the most powerful intel source in the known galaxy, which'd be a great asset to have when Shepard needs to deal with other races or figures in ME3, though when comes to dealing with the Reaper invasion that might be a different matter - y'know, that's like thousands of most powerful dreadnoughts barrel down at ya, and how much trouble this galaxy has just to take out one.

First, Liara's biotics in ME2 are actually more powerful than those of any squad mate, at least the way I use them. Samara does have Reave to tackle armor and barriers, but it has to be evolved to have an area-effect. Pull is immensely useful to expose enemies, but to use it on a group you have to evolve it too. Pull requires level 2 throw, so you can't have those things and reduce Samara's biotic cooldown by -25%.
Jack does not have any attack to tackle armor or barriers, except warp-ammo. On Insanity that's a serious drawback. If you have not trained warp-ammo yourself and do not prefer any other ammo power she might be taken along for it, but thats a pretty special case.
Liara on the other hand has Singularity, which is capable of exposing a group of unprotected enemies. At the same time it is possible to minimize her biotic cooldown and still have level 3 warp and level 2 stasis. I played Infiltrator with warp-ammo, and brought Miranda along with me. With squad synthetic and warp-ammo this gives a damage boost against any kind of defense, and having two warps and one overload at your disposable in addition to that is the end of all defense. Singularity with squad warp-ammo disposes of everything unprotected in a save way. I killed all troops on one of those landing boats before they could even get off, on insanity. It is safe to say that at least in this particular fire-team setup Liara was more effective than any other biotic in the squad could have been.

Second, the fact that Liara is now the Shadow Broker finally liberates Shepard from Cerberus and the Council. The only reason Shepard had to answer to one or the other, and could not choose his own path, was that Shep relied on them for intel and resources. Liara can now provide both. Smart and beautiful she is, but it's her usefulness and resourcefulness I always truly loved her for.

[didymos1120]

krimesh wrote...
EDIT: Liara does have the tendency to react to stress in a Vasir-Saren-TIM-ish way, "to make the call", to do what she thinks is necessary, to get trapped in a bitter, screwed up mind-set.

Disagree.  One instance, prolonged as it may have been, does not a tendency make.  Her reaction under these circumstances and the vengeance quest in general was all ultimately about Shepard's death and how after that she had pretty much nothing and no one:

Her mother was dead, she had no siblings, and she never knew her pseudo-father.

Her career?  Well, the question she'd been trying to answer was answered:  Reapers did it.  Her ideas were also even more unwelcome now that she had some actual details about the Protheans' true fate.  She may have been able to go and help out with studying Ilos at one time, but not once Shep was dead and all that Reaper stuff was getting stamped down.

She wasn't human or Alliance, so once the SR-1 was gone and Shep with it,  she couldn't just be reassigned.   She also had no real friendships from before her joining Shep's gang.  She certainly wasn't going to start hangin' with TIM and the Cerberus gang after handing over the Shepcorpse either. 

So, after the whole Redemption ordeal, she latched onto this idea of punishing the Broker for Shep and for Feron, the one who'd saved her life and given Shepard a chance at a second one.  The obsessive side of her that served her rather well as a student and then as a working archaeologist now served to drag her further and further into the morally gray world of information brokering, and because she had no other purpose in her life anymore, she couldn't let it go and started compromising herself.  

In short, this was the result of a unique and uniquely trying sequence of events, so trying to extrapolate from it to predict her response to stress in general just doesn't work.

There's also this: go ask Nyxeris about Liara's social status.  She'll tell you Liara could easily have much more power and influence, but doesn't because she simply isn't interested in acquiring either. 

[krimesh]

^^

Yes, you are probably right. In fact I missed my own point and you made it for me. I just wanted to disperse doubt about her really becoming like Vasir, or TIM, and misused the word "tendency" which really does not apply in that case. I really should read redemption some day. They aren't available online I guess, are they?

[rememberence]

didymos1120 wrote...

krimesh wrote...
EDIT: Liara does have the tendency to react to stress in a Vasir-Saren-TIM-ish way, "to make the call", to do what she thinks is necessary, to get trapped in a bitter, screwed up mind-set.

Disagree.  One instance, prolonged as it may have been, does not a tendency make.  Her reaction under these circumstances and the vengeance quest in general was all ultimately about Shepard's death and how after that she had pretty much nothing and no one:

Her mother was dead, she had no siblings, and she never knew her pseudo-father.

Her career?  Well, the question she'd been trying to answer was answered:  Reapers did it.  Her ideas were also even more unwelcome now that she had some actual details about the Protheans' true fate.  She may have been able to go and help out with studying Ilos at one time, but not once Shep was dead and all that Reaper stuff was getting stamped down.

She wasn't human or Alliance, so once the SR-1 was gone and Shep with it,  she couldn't just be reassigned.   She also had no real friendships from before her joining Shep's gang.  She certainly wasn't going to start hangin' with TIM and the Cerberus gang after handing over the Shepcorpse either. 

So, after the whole Redemption ordeal, she latched onto this idea of punishing the Broker for Shep and for Feron, the one who'd saved her life and given Shepard a chance at a second one.  The obsessive side of her that served her rather well as a student and then as a working archaeologist now served to drag her further and further into the morally gray world of information brokering, and because she had no other purpose in her life anymore, she couldn't let it go and started compromising herself.  

In short, this was the result of a unique and uniquely trying sequence of events, so trying to extrapolate from it to predict her response to stress in general just doesn't work.

There's also this: go ask Nyxeris about Liara's social status.  She'll tell you Liara could easily have much more power and influence, but doesn't because she simply isn't interested in acquiring either. 

Well said.

[Lord Nicholai]

First of all I'd like to say that this was the best ME2 DLC by far, however, I'm not too keen on how major parts of the story are being pushed into DLC. LotSB seemed a bit too important to be DLC in my opinion, and people are asking for Ashley/Kaiden DLC, which again would be way too important. I feel LotSB should have been in the game from the start, or at least held back until ME3.

[trucoolbrees]

krimesh wrote...

^^
Yes, you are probably right. In fact I missed my own point and you made it for me. I just wanted to disperse doubt about her really becoming like Vasir, or TIM, and misused the word "tendency" which really does not apply in that case. I really should read redemption some day. They aren't available online I guess, are they?

www.youtube.com/watch     

[Azriel86]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

CoGDork wrote...

Is anyone else wondering WTF is up with that vid of Anderson meeting up with a Cerberus agent in the vid archive at the Shadow Broker's base?

Anderson isn't likely to ignore the most powerful human organization with nearly infinite resources no matter what he may personally think of them. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he too works for Cerberus and always has been.

I was really shocked when I saw it and wanted to know more. But did any one catch that vid of an asari looking at a photo of Liara and drinking. Propably Liara's "father". A character we get so see later.

By the way Bioware: Fantastic DLC. Truely worth the 800 Microsoft Points and it gave us a chance to further exlpore our relationship with Liara. Top notch. Keep it up.

[snfonseka]

After reading the dossier of "Admiral Hackett", I am starting to think he is working for Cerberus....

[Loerwyn]

I finished it about 30-40 mins ago.

I'm... Torn, I think. I really am. I played it on a Renegade Shep, post-end game. I made a few paragon choices with Liara (to keep her with Shep, I hoped) and everything else was renegage/neutral. Squadmates I used were Garrus and Tali, just because they're original ME1 companions (although I believe I used Garrus in that playthrough). My romance option was, somewhat obviously, Liara.

I felt disappointed in that the content is really, really short. It's probably on par with Overlord, but it doesn't feel as good as Overlord did. It honestly felt like, to me, bits from other parts of the game (so getting through the building to Liara, to me, was like a cross between finding Mordin and finding Thane) including the oh-wait-didn't-I-do-this-in-Mass-Effect-1 scene on the Shadow Broker's ship, and from what I read on ME Wiki, the extra features of the Lair (which I didn't explore myself) seem ripped from Pinnacle Station. And let's not mention Feron was obviously a recoloured Thane.

I also felt disappointed in that no crew members spoke new lines. Garrus said nothing in cut scenes, whereas Tali exclaimed "Keelah", which I've little doubt about being a previous recording. BioWare are planning more (I believe) ME2 > ME3 DLC, and I'd hoped we'd see new dialogue. Liara would, as far as I can see, be happy to see Garrus and Tali again, especially after everything they went through and after her reaction to Chakwas and Joker.

But anyway, the good points. There were some funny moments ("Don't you just miss when you could slap omni-gel on something?" or whatever it was, that was good!) and some less funny moments. Jen Hale was excellent again () as was Ali Hillis. I found it quite refreshing that they made the Shadow Broker a new race rather than recycling an older one. He looked like a strange cross between a Krogan and an Ogre from DA It was nice to see BioWare make a lot of new things for it, however - new ship, new enemy, new armor for Liara and the Asari Spectre, Liara's home etc.

Specifics:
Chase scene: Ew. Didn't like it

RenFemShepxLiara: Argh. Nooooo. Come on, BioWare. It's obvious Liara is still in love with Shep, so half of her dialogue about them seemed a bit weird. She had part of Shep's armor in her appartment, a painting of Ilos, a framed picture of the Normandy. When she sees Shepard for the first time on Ilium, they greet with an embrace and a kiss. I just couldn't understand why Liara suddenly did a u-turn about their relationship.

ME3?: I didn't get much of an ME3 vibe, sadly. Liara being the Shadow Broker'll be great for ME3 in that she'll give us help and information, but other than that I don't think it did much in the way of hinting. I do wonder, though, if Liara would actually have children with Shepard, though. I think it'd be kinda cute! Lil' Commander Shepard-T'Soni

Overall: It was a good DLC, but not great. I think that if you only have one playstyle or one run through this, it's going to be a waste of money - What you get doesn't justify the entry fee. However, if you play through the game 2-3 times at least, with different options (Different romances, different genders, Paragon or Renegade, etc) it's going to be worth it because it felt like there could be quite a good bit of variation.

Bugs: I swear when I shot a female on the Shadow Broker's ship she died with a man's voice. Either that or the Shadow Broker's guards were running low on armor.
Blood also changes colour. When the Spectre runs away, she drips blue blood like a Turian. When she collapses against the wall, the blood is red. On the Shadow Broker's ship, I killed an Asari who had purple blood. Not sure if it's a bug, mind you.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 11 septembre 2010 - 02:00 .

[Mark B]

Azriel86 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

CoGDork wrote...

Is anyone else wondering WTF is up with that vid of Anderson meeting up with a Cerberus agent in the vid archive at the Shadow Broker's base?

Anderson isn't likely to ignore the most powerful human organization with nearly infinite resources no matter what he may personally think of them. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he too works for Cerberus and always has been.

I was really shocked when I saw it and wanted to know more. But did any one catch that vid of an asari looking at a photo of Liara and drinking. Propably Liara's "father". A character we get so see later.

By the way Bioware: Fantastic DLC. Truely worth the 800 Microsoft Points and it gave us a chance to further exlpore our relationship with Liara. Top notch. Keep it up.

That's Matriarch Aethyta, the bar tender in Eternity on Illium.

[krimesh]

Lord Nicholai wrote...

First of all I'd like to say that this was the best ME2 DLC by far, however, I'm not too keen on how major parts of the story are being pushed into DLC. LotSB seemed a bit too important to be DLC in my opinion, and people are asking for Ashley/Kaiden DLC, which again would be way too important. I feel LotSB should have been in the game from the start, or at least held back until ME3.

After playing Overlord, I did have the (mild) feeling that the DLC was just there to stretch the game, and to make some more money. My greatest fear about something like LOTSB was that it would not get the quality it deserved. But it did. In my opinion it was even a bit better than ME2, having its foot in the ME3 door so to speak.
Given the high quality of the product, I do not see why parts of the story-line should not be made available as DLC. The extra money that they cost is not an argument. 30+ hours of ME gameplay are worth the money we paid for the game. Bundling more story into ME3 will just make it more expensive. Besides downloading the occasional DLC better reflects the spirit of the story: ME3 should really devote most of its time to the conclusion of the reaper problem. While things like Liara's story are important, they are only setting the stage for the events of ME3. We are given the opportunity to deal with them in relative peace (after the suicide mission, for some of us), without having to bother with actually defeating the reapers just yet. Actually, LOTSB being a DLC playable after the SM makes it more important story-wise, as it is not necessarily sandwiched between building a squad and stopping the collectors, which would have priority.
Also it is great to occasionally have the story move forward in small steps, in stead of just waiting for two years.

EDIT: Actually my mild disappointment with Overlord was that it did not move the story forward. Something LOTSB did, and without "stealing" from ME3, or being done badly.

Modifié par krimesh, 11 septembre 2010 - 02:21 .

[Zulu_DFA]

snfonseka wrote...

After reading the dossier of "Admiral Hackett", I am starting to think he is working for Cerberus....

Which means the entire 5th Fleet is working for Cerberus!

Mwa-ha-ha-ha!!!

[Loerwyn]

Mark B wrote...
That's Matriarch Aethyta, the bar tender in Eternity on Illium.

It makes me wonder why she has a picture of Liara. If Liara was just a regular customer at the bar, then she wouldn't need one, right?

Ooo, speculation. She could be Liara's "father" as her age seems to fit in with that, her and Liara could have had a little thing going on whilst Shepard was having a nap - I want to know

[Crimson_Crio]

Looks like this one is really worth it. The others were not so bad but this one seems like a real worthy purchase. I just hope for that space car chase they change the texture of others in the background. It was kind of silly seeing all flying cars to look the same =)

[krimesh]

It's funny how the world is divided into people who do understand Liara's behavior in ME2&LOTSB, and those who find it strange or even badly written. Vote on this poll!

[CoGDork]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

CoGDork wrote...

Is anyone else wondering WTF is up with that vid of Anderson meeting up with a Cerberus agent in the vid archive at the Shadow Broker's base?

Anderson isn't likely to ignore the most powerful human organization with nearly infinite resources no matter what he may personally think of them. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he too works for Cerberus and always has been.

Well, perhaps Anderson has a man on the inside of Cerberus. That would explain the footage, and leave his actions against Cerberus in the novels explainable.