55 réponses à ce sujet

[Gill Kaiser]

C Butler wrote...

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Dragon Age seems to follow in the same vein as KOTOR and ME, I don't think it's 'leeching off of Baldur's Gate' as much as you think.

As for Dark Alliance... >.> Maybe it's just because I was younger when I first played it, but playing that game side by side with a friend was hella fun.

Edit: Was ninja'd by Korruptted. And I agree with him. :3

Well if  you were young when you played BG:DA then the real deal, the PC Series, is before your time.
I've seen multiple instances of DAO trying to ride on the epic PC series coat tails.
Honestly, if you liked BG:DA, you have no idea what is in a good RPG.
Get on a PC. Find a old copy of BG or BG II and then come back and post.

I just don't want to be let down.

Excuse me, it's perfectly possible to have enjoyed both. I am a long-time fan of the Baldur's Gate series, and I enjoyed Dark Alliance as well. If you were expecting it to be the same as the other BG games, then of course you would be disappointed. Thankfully, I read reviews, and was well aware that I was purchasing a Diablo clone - a role the game performed acceptably.

[Drag0n-RD]

OP I agree. BG: Dark Alliance was without a doubt the worst series of games related to DnD I have ever played.



But to the point of your post! DA:O looks to be really impressive but as always nobody knows until we've all played it!

[Vaeliorin]

Honestly, for me, DA (that's Dragon Age, not Dark Alliance...though I do own both Dark Alliance games and both PC Baldur's Gates) can't help but be better than BG, at least gameplay wise (and story-wise, it can't help but be better than BG1, which was just one long, extended sidequest that didn't really have anything to do with the main plot.) Why, you ask? Because I loathe 2E D&D (3.X is tolerable). Fortunately, in DA all the classes have interesting abilities, not just the casters.



Heck, I'd say I enjoyed Journeys (you know, the flash game) more than BG1 (admittedly, I adore turn based games, and merely put up with real-time with pause.)

[minamber]

Frankly, bashing BG:DA for not being like BG seems rather narrow-minded to me. When i bought it, i was fully aware that it was a diablo-like, and i enjoyed it for what it was. Comparing hack&slash games and traditional cRPGs like BG makes little sense, imho.



As for Bioware returning to their "glory days", that's also awfully subjective. You may think BG was the best game they made, but I'm pretty sure that ME sold a lot better.



One last remark, just how could you actually hope that your PC from BG 2 would be exportable in NWN? I know it was in the loading hints, but ToB was obviously the conclusion of the Bhaalspawn's story. Importing that same character in another game would have cheapened the story imo. Not to mention that at the end of ToB, the PC was around level 25, virtually unkillable except by gods. Importing that character into another game would have meant deleveling, again cheapening BG's story.

[soteria]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Honestly, for me, DA (that's Dragon Age, not Dark Alliance...though I do own both Dark Alliance games and both PC Baldur's Gates) can't help but be better than BG, at least gameplay wise (and story-wise, it can't help but be better than BG1, which was just one long, extended sidequest that didn't really have anything to do with the main plot.) Why, you ask? Because I loathe 2E D&D (3.X is tolerable). Fortunately, in DA all the classes have interesting abilities, not just the casters.

Heck, I'd say I enjoyed Journeys (you know, the flash game) more than BG1 (admittedly, I adore turn based games, and merely put up with real-time with pause.)

I don't know if I like 2E or 3.X better or worse.  Better in 3.X:  Feats. Armor class and combat in general was more comprehensible and flowed better.  Skills for everyone! Yay1  Worse in 3.X:  Skills in 3.X are less meaningful than they should be--everyone gets a certain number of points and a certain number of class skills, making for very little meaningful variety between characters.  Really only mattered for selecting prestige classes in a lot of cases or exploiting the few great skills like tumble. 

Also, multi/dual-classing.  The move to a "character level" in addition to class level and the standardization of exp required for the next level killed it in its 2E form.  That was sad.  In some ways it offers more variety, in others, less--a cleric/mage, for example, is pretty much completely worthless in 3.X.  Oh well.  My love affair with D&D rulesets ended a while ago.

[gethsemani87]

I haven't taken the whole "Going back to Baldur's Gate" as a literal promise of getting another game like Baldur's Gate. Rather, I have come to believe that what they mean by that is that they are going back to creating a game that presents the player with a challenge, both in combat, puzzles and "choice" situations.



Let me clarify for those who never played the Baldur's Gate games (DA not included). In Baldur's Gate, you started off at level 1. Mages were so puny that if you played one, you had to be really creative with how you fought for the first few levels. My first character was swarmed by Gibberlings in the second outdoor area of the game and died after about an hour of playing.

Compared to KotOR, NWN, Jade Empire and Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate I & II are almost punishingly difficult at times.



There's also the hope that Dragon Age will bring back meaningful choices that doesn't brand the PC as good or evil or were the outcomes are blatantly obvious. The newer Bioware games have been quite straightforward with what is "Good" and what is "Evil" along with what choice will offer the most benefits for the PC.

[C Butler]

gethsemani87 wrote...

I haven't taken the whole "Going back to Baldur's Gate" as a literal promise of getting another game like Baldur's Gate. Rather, I have come to believe that what they mean by that is that they are going back to creating a game that presents the player with a challenge, both in combat, puzzles and "choice" situations.

Let me clarify for those who never played the Baldur's Gate games (DA not included). In Baldur's Gate, you started off at level 1. Mages were so puny that if you played one, you had to be really creative with how you fought for the first few levels. My first character was swarmed by Gibberlings in the second outdoor area of the game and died after about an hour of playing.
Compared to KotOR, NWN, Jade Empire and Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate I & II are almost punishingly difficult at times.

There's also the hope that Dragon Age will bring back meaningful choices that doesn't brand the PC as good or evil or were the outcomes are blatantly obvious. The newer Bioware games have been quite straightforward with what is "Good" and what is "Evil" along with what choice will offer the most benefits for the PC.

I agree completely. It's not to say they weren't great games, but things have been so black and white as of recent.

I'm honestly a little shocked to see people sticking up for BG: DA. The game of the year for 1999 or 2000, or whatever, lending it's name to a clone (Yeah because clones are real pioneering and creative and really bring a new caliber of game play to the table) of another game (Diablo/ Gauntlet). It didn't even try to copy these games well. It was a vanilla hack and slash. Plain and simple.
Enjoying it is one thing. It is alright to enjoy the more generic things in life. But to say that this game, which shares a title with a legendary PC epic, is of the same caliber is just plain wrong.

It's not all doom and gloom though. I am excited for DAO, very excited. From the looks of it BG will finally be getting the homage it deserves.

[Mistersunshine]

Dragon Age: Origins is going to smash Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. Yeah, I said it.



(And I really, really LIKED the Baldur's Gate games. Some of my all-time favorites.)

[briskojr]

From how they describe it from time to time I'd expect it to be more of a successor to Torment.

[Doug84]

I have no idea frankly. And to be honest, I don't really care. I do get about the OP making all us PC gamers look like elitist idiots throughout this thread.



As for the game mechanics, I think its good they've dropped the DnD ruleset - it probably works when your pen and paper RPGing, but on the PC, its just plain confusing and ill explained (see NWN).



I think a new custom built system for games with simpler rules that they'll explain better will improve the experience greatly.

[Teemu733]

All the gameplay footage I've seen indicate that DA:O will be very similar to the BG games! Just more and better dialogue.

[Shattered Shield]

C Butler wrote...

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Dragon Age seems to follow in the same vein as KOTOR and ME, I don't think it's 'leeching off of Baldur's Gate' as much as you think.

As for Dark Alliance... >.> Maybe it's just because I was younger when I first played it, but playing that game side by side with a friend was hella fun.

Edit: Was ninja'd by Korruptted. And I agree with him. :3

Well if  you were young when you played BG:DA then the real deal, the PC Series, is before your time.
I've seen multiple instances of DAO trying to ride on the epic PC series coat tails.
Honestly, if you liked BG:DA, you have no idea what is in a good RPG.
Get on a PC. Find a old copy of BG or BG II and then come back and post.

I just don't want to be let down.

I was in middle school 8th grade when BG2 came out.....and i remember the excitment as well as the hype it made amongst all my friends......since then no other game came close until now. Im an adult now and yet waitin for Dragonage to come out brings me back to those yrs.....of no worries and no bills...so i think it shall hold up its rep

[Mordaedil]

C Butler wrote...

I'm honestly a little shocked to see people sticking up for BG: DA. The game of the year for 1999 or 2000, or whatever, lending it's name to a clone (Yeah because clones are real pioneering and creative and really bring a new caliber of game play to the table) of another game (Diablo/ Gauntlet). It didn't even try to copy these games well. It was a vanilla hack and slash. Plain and simple.
Enjoying it is one thing. It is alright to enjoy the more generic things in life. But to say that this game, which shares a title with a legendary PC epic, is of the same caliber is just plain wrong.

Same caliber it is not, but comparing things directly often tends to fall flat on its face.

It was better than other hack and slash clones of its time and when compared directly to its namesake, it feels almost like an insult, and that's kinda the problem.

When you stop looking at the games objectively, the games aren't being judged fairly anymore.

Although I'd agree that it was a pretty cheap way to sell more copies. I don't think DAO is doing anything near the same.

[Khovu]

Mistersunshine wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins is going to smash Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. Yeah, I said it.

(And I really, really LIKED the Baldur's Gate games. Some of my all-time favorites.)

Ah you ninjad it from me !! well done

[Red Viking]

C Butler wrote...

They have the same head writer from BG.
They're not fooling anyone.

They want their glory days back.
Just, you know, it's 10 years later and have big brother EA breathing down their necks and looking over their shoulder.

We'll see how well it works.
As a standalone or as a "spiritual predecessor" to BG.
I'm hoping more for the latter.

Honestly, I think you've already made up your own mind.  It's one thing to say that you're excited for DA:O, but your posts and word choices clearly indicate that you think the Baldur's Gate series is the best RPG series of all time.  Now there's nothing wrong with judging something in comparison to something else, especially where spiritual successors are concerned, but it sounds like you hold the Baldur's Gate series in such high regard that nothing will ever come close to it. 

As it stands right now, I think you're going to be very dissapointed with Dragon Age: Origins because it will never live up to the image that you've built up of Baldur's Gate.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'll bet he's one of the guys who was complaining a few months ago that the new Diablo looks too colorful.

[SheffSteel]

So, let me see if I have this right. Based on a dislike of a game that used the BG name, but was made by different developers and was not intended to be an RPG in the BG mold, the OP is worried about a game that does not use the BG name, was made by the same developers, and is intended to be an RPG in the BG mold.



Is it just me that thinks the logic might be shaky there?

[BewareTheDrow]

Drag0n-RD wrote...

OP I agree. BG: Dark Alliance was without a doubt the worst series of games related to DnD I have ever played.

Agreed. Dark Alliance was insulting to play. Especially if you remember the marketing campaign for it. Milking the name for all its worth. I consider it the same level of insult as Fallout 3 and Fallout: BOS were for their predecessors; they didn't deserve the name.

[Draconus Kahn]

Pfft... Someone said it here best.
Bunch of people throwing e-tantrums. That's exactly what this is. Bleh, why do I even bother posting on these things? It's like one of those bad reality TV shows: You turn it on, want to turn it off, but all you can do is stare, shake your head and say, "Tsk-tsk, what a bunch of morons."

*Edit: Not talking about people supporting the game, I am talking about the nay sayers with way too much negative energy. People like that are a dime a dozen, and everyone of them I have met think negatively about every game that comes out. In a word you could describe 'em: Jaded.

Modifié par Draconus Kahn, 25 octobre 2009 - 01:25 .

[BewareTheDrow]

Draconus Kahn wrote...
Bunch of people throwing e-tantrums. That's exactly what this is

So what would you call complaining about other people's complaints? :-p

In all seriousness, there's nothing wrong with people liking/disliking a game for their own opinion of its merits. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good.

[Draconus Kahn]

BewareTheDrow wrote...

Draconus Kahn wrote...
Bunch of people throwing e-tantrums. That's exactly what this is

So what would you call complaining about other people's complaints? :-p

In all seriousness, there's nothing wrong with people liking/disliking a game for their own opinion of its merits. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good.

I call it complaining...

But, I will have to admit I skirt the lines on it. I don't believe it's quite enough to be considered a tantrum though. For that I would need a bit more emotion. A rant, yeah probably a rant. I rant a alot. Especially if something bugs me. Here's what Wikipedia says, for anyone who cares.

Tanrum:
"A tantrum is an emotional outburst of ill humor or a fit of bad temper wherein the 'higher' cognitive functions are unable to stop the emotional expression of the putative 'lower' (emotional and physical) functions. It can be categorized by an irrational fit of crying, screaming, defiance, angry ranting and a resistance to every attempt at pacification in which even physical control is lost. The person may not stand or sit on their own. Even when the "goal" of the person is met, he or she is not calmed."

Rant:
"A rant or harangue is a speech or text that does not present a well-researched and calm argument; rather, it is typically an attack on an idea, a person or an institution, and very often lacks proven claims. Such attacks are usually personal attacks. Compare with a dialectic."

I probably owe all of those who feel accused an apology for calling their rants e-tantrums. Sorry about that guys and girls. But, I won't apologize about one thing: I do believe a lot of these posts are pretty much in anticipation of things not going your way. So in anticipation of your e-tantrums, I'm reminding myself to stay away from your posts.

[C Butler]

You haven't read my posts if you feel as if I'm throwing  a tantrum. I'm excited for the game. I'm just worried about exactly what this user outlined:

BewareTheDrow wrote...

Drag0n-RD wrote...

OP I agree. BG: Dark Alliance was without a doubt the worst series of games related to DnD I have ever played.

Agreed. Dark Alliance was insulting to play. Especially if you remember the marketing campaign for it. Milking the name for all its worth. I consider it the same level of insult as Fallout 3 and Fallout: BOS were for their predecessors; they didn't deserve the name.

Call me a old hardcore D&D player slash die hard BG & BG II fan, but I just don't want the Baldur's gate name milked anymore than it has been. I was simply sharing these sentiments. I honestly feel though that I wont be let down this time.

There is certainly more room for playable character variability when working within a D&D based system (Which the specifics of can be abstracted away, which was well done in BG and poorly done in NWN). Like as a human… You can be a Noble in DAO. That's it.
A dwarf? Pick from two classes.  
Three Races. Three classes. If your a mage, you have one backstory.

With physical appearances, yes very diverse, but upon character creation that doesn't utilize a D&D based system:
A wee bit limited.


Side question: How did another company besides Bioware manage to get the rights to make a Baldur's Gate game? If I was bioware, I would be pissed. Especially with the game that it ended up being.

[elemental150]

C Butler wrote...

I prepurchased the collector's edition through steam for the sole purpose that this game is suppose to live up to same standard as the two Baldur's Gate Games.
Yes, we have Bioware…
But the other developers, Black Isle are no longer even a company.
They became Obsidian Entertainment and another group because of some purchasing thing.
Interplay was involved, maybe some EA. Not really sure.

Long story short is I am going to be incredibly disappointed if this game just puts a shame on the Baldur's gate series's name. Because it's happened before.

Remember Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance?
Remember the UNECESSARILY sequel to that Vanilla hack and slash?

Completely shamed the series name. The only reason it was named that was to pull at the heart strings of some old gamers who spent years of their life walking a single character through baldur's gate one and two with a single character.


That single character which was promised to be imported into NWN, but never could be.
Another empty promise.
I understand why, with the change in the D&D editions, but a empty promise nevertheless.

So here is me.
A old gamer who loved the game series that DAO is suppose to pay homage to.

So let us raise our glasses and in our prayers tonight, hope that this time they follow through.
And that this time  the Baldur's Gate name, the title which is associated with DOA, the association that has drawn me and my friends to preorder this game and count down the days, that this time WE WILL NOT BE LET DOWN!

HERE HERE!

While I understand where you are coming from, as some who
played both the Baldur’s Gate games and the Ice Wind Dale games, I feel the
same way about the old school complexity that often newer games are
missing.  However, Bioware has said that
DAO is a spiritual successor and what I believe they mean is that this is a
return to a high fantasy setting where your decisions matter more and not every
decisions is as black and white as they seem to be in other games.

I feel that this game will offer some of the difficulty and
rewarding feeling that you got by achieving a level in these earlier games as
well.  I am not expecting a clone or for
that matter anything that really brings up those feelings of nostalgia or the
feelings that I am in some way playing a newer BG or IWD game…..what I am
expecting is this game to strike up some of those feelings that I only ever had
playing these games…

Modifié par elemental150, 26 octobre 2009 - 12:55 .

[C Butler]

elemental150 wrote...

C Butler wrote...

I prepurchased the collector's edition through steam for the sole purpose that this game is suppose to live up to same standard as the two Baldur's Gate Games.
Yes, we have Bioware…
But the other developers, Black Isle are no longer even a company.
They became Obsidian Entertainment and another group because of some purchasing thing.
Interplay was involved, maybe some EA. Not really sure.

Long story short is I am going to be incredibly disappointed if this game just puts a shame on the Baldur's gate series's name. Because it's happened before.

Remember Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance?
Remember the UNECESSARILY sequel to that Vanilla hack and slash?

Completely shamed the series name. The only reason it was named that was to pull at the heart strings of some old gamers who spent years of their life walking a single character through baldur's gate one and two with a single character.


That single character which was promised to be imported into NWN, but never could be.
Another empty promise.
I understand why, with the change in the D&D editions, but a empty promise nevertheless.

So here is me.
A old gamer who loved the game series that DAO is suppose to pay homage to.

So let us raise our glasses and in our prayers tonight, hope that this time they follow through.
And that this time  the Baldur's Gate name, the title which is associated with DOA, the association that has drawn me and my friends to preorder this game and count down the days, that this time WE WILL NOT BE LET DOWN!

HERE HERE!

While I understand where you are coming from, as some who
played both the Baldur’s Gate games and the Ice Wind Dale games, I feel the
same way about the old school complexity that often newer games are
missing.  However, Bioware has said that
DAO is a spiritual successor and what I believe they mean is that this is a
return to a high fantasy setting where your decisions matter more and not every
decisions is as black and white as they seem to be in other games.

I feel that this game will offer some of the difficulty and
rewarding feeling that you got by achieving a level in these earlier games as
well.  I am not expecting a clone or for
that matter anything that really brings up those feelings of nostalgia or the
feelings that I am in some way playing a newer BG or IWD game…..what I am
expecting is this game to strike up some of those feelings that I only ever had
playing these games…

This makes sense and I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
But you can't say that a little bit of that nostalgia wouldn't be nice.
Maybe they might sneak a reference in a few places if were lucky.
After all, Bioware has been known to do that. MDK was referenced in BG.
NWN was referenced in BG II. 

That would be something I would appreciate.

[vyvexthorne]

At least it seems like the game makers are trying to get back to a more story based game.. It was just a couple years ago that all focus was bent towards "look at the awesome graphics!" It takes them awhile to mix the new and the old. They have to get used to new engines and experiment with capabilities. BG, IWD, Fallout all hold special places in a lot of peoples hearts because they were young and those were some of the first games of that type that they played and it's kind of silly to think you'll ever find something to live up to that sense of nostalgia that you feel for those games. Dragon age will most likely be a nostalgic game for a new generation of RPG-ers.... The first game you fell in love with is a really hard game for other games to compete with.