130 réponses à ce sujet

[heretica]

This was nice, thank you!



Personally, I find stasis VERY useful. I used it against the Shadow Broker fight to buy some free time to relocate Liara and myself.



I really loved the banter between Shepard and Liara, it feel so natural and made me chuckle a couple of times.



Thanks!

[sinosleep]

Great dlc and great post. It's always cool to read up in the behind the scenes stuff that goes into making quality games.

[HBC Dresden]

Bruddajakka wrote...

If I had the option of firing Zaeed to replace him with Liara I'd do it in a minute.

I would trade Jacob for Liara in a minute.

After reading the dev post, I was impressed into how much testing went into making Stasis for ME2. I've been using it on my Adept for replaying the DLC (Insanity, level 30) and it is really useful (replaced Barrier, my quasi-medi gel), especially since afterwards they are knocked down and get the double damage rag-dolling characters get (and the awesome sound!). Don't know how to evolve Stasis though (which one to choose).

Modifié par HBC Dresden, 08 septembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[Taritu]

I liked stasis, thought it worked well, and wasn't irritating. Good job on the script. I also thought her having singularity rocked: she's supposed to be a great biotic, and she had it in ME1. My main issue with Liara is the same one I have with all ME2 NPCs and in particular the ones from ME1 - they don't have enough abilities. I get why you want four - distinctiveness, but we know from repeated in game dialogue, for example, that Liara has biotic barrier. (And it feels wrong, RP wise, that Tali doesn't have overload, as the uber-technician of the squad.)



And four abilities tends to make some NPC noticeably superior to others. In the inferior category (according to most players) I'm afraid that Jacob is the most glaring example.



Can our squad mates, assuming a roughly similiar system to ME2 in ME3, please have 5 abilities in ME 3?



Great job overall, btw, best DLC so far, and imo, better than any mission in the base game.

[Bruddajakka]

Oddly she'd be a perfect character to pair with an Adept due to their similar skill sets. Dude bad you can only use her for so short a time. Hopefully come ME3 she'll have things in hand enough that she operate from the Normandy.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Taritu wrote...

Can our squad mates, assuming a roughly similiar system to ME2 in ME3, please have 5 abilities in ME 3? .

And can we change the way unlocking skills works? As it is now, it's impossible to max the second, third, and fourth ability, ignoring the first.


BTW, combat drones basically pwn the Shadow Broker. But nobody tell Christina!

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 08 septembre 2010 - 11:32 .

[SgtBriareos]

Having finished the DLC with a lvl 30 soldier in insane I must say that Stasis is a terrific skill which I even found overpowered when facing single enemies. The primary reason for me to think this is the fight against the first final boss. On my first encounter I got my ass kicked, on my second I started spamming Stasis and sole reason the fight wasn't utterly pointless was due to the occasional waves of mercs. With deep stasis the cooldown finishes exactly when the duration expires, allowing you to keep a single enemy locked down forever. As they fall to the ground when stasis finishes the procedure is simple: stasis, wait until its over, gun target until it stands up and starts firing back, repeat. With multiple enemies this is not possible though so if you plan to include it in ME3 make sure that any final boss that is encountered on its own is immune to stasis or that they are less severely affected, maybe recovering quicker.



A thing I liked a lot about using stasis in group fights is that it allows the player to get to vantage points if used cleverly. I've never ran through the scenery with a soldier so much and I've enjoyed it a lot, plotting how to flank foes to catch them out of cover. Gotta love skills that open a wide arrange of tactical possibilities.



As a final note, the DLC was fantastic. Keep it up!

[XGCFriedchicken]

HBC Dresden wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

If I had the option of firing Zaeed to replace him with Liara I'd do it in a minute.

I would trade Jacob for Liara in a minute.

After reading the dev post, I was impressed into how much testing went into making Stasis for ME2. I've been using it on my Adept for replaying the DLC (Insanity, level 30) and it is really useful (replaced Barrier, my quasi-medi gel), especially since afterwards they are knocked down and get the double damage rag-dolling characters get (and the awesome sound!). Don't know how to evolve Stasis though (which one to choose).

RACIST! You shoulda said Jack.

I went with enhanced though because using it more times on one target at least seems better than having that target in Stasis for 3 more seconds. Works really great on Mini Boss like enemies. Geth primes are now hilariously easy to kill when you have time to kill their back up and topple them over with a stasis each time they get back on their feet from the last.

[implodinggoat]

Honestly, I think I'd trade any squad member in ME2 for Liara. I like her character a lot and her set of powers was immensely entertaining.

If I had to give one up though it would definitely be Jack or Jacob. Liara feels like what an Adept Squad member should play like, powerful yet versatile.

Jack only feels like a badass biotic on lower difficulties as soon as you crank it up to hardcore or insanity you find yourself wishing she had warp or anything like Stasis that could help deal with enemies sporting protection. That said, I do find Jack's character interesting, though not as interesting as Liara's. Of course the degree of insubordination which Shepard takes off Jack in ME2 is totally unrealistic. No commanding officer would let anyone undermine their authority like that.

Jacob is a little more useful than Jack in combat since his barrier lets him absorb a lot of damage and he still has pull which is really Jack's only really useful power anyway. But; he's also a lot less interesting than Jack. I find his character generally likable; but there's ultimately not a lot going on. Aside from that I always found the way that he calls out Cerberus after choosing to work for them to be hypocritical (felt the same way about Shepard; but sadly the game never gave me a chance to betray Cerberus and rip TIM's pretty blue eyes out of his head.). He talks like he has convictions; but he acts like a puppet (again, same goes for Shepard), so ultimately you can't respect him (again, same goes for Shepard).

Modifié par implodinggoat, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:21 .

[didymos1120]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...
BTW, combat drones basically pwn the Shadow Broker. But nobody tell Christina!

So does Charge: Charge, Knockback, Claymore, Melee, Claymore, wait out cooldown, repeat.  Didn't even need cover unless I screwed up somehow and got too far away so that he unloaded on me.  If you stay close, he likes to keep doing his "Krogan rush" move instead of constantly blasting you with the Revenant.  When he whips out the big red shield, it's even easier: it blocks him as much as you.  And then with Liara occasionally drawing his aggro, no problem.

[implodinggoat]

As I said I like stasis; but I do have a few ideas for improving it.

1:  Have the duration increase AND rate at which enemies become immune decrease for each level of the power unlocked.

2:  Make it more clear to the player how the enemy immunity works.  IE Give us the numbers you're using to calculate the diminishing returns on the duration.

3:  The Evolved Versions Are Underwhelming:  As in ME1 Stasis is an ability which has a lot of upside from investing a single point in it, which is unto itself a plus in my opinion; but fully evolving it to level 4 doesn't seem like a good return on investment.  So here's how I'd tweak it...

Evolved Version 1, Stasis Field:  Gives the Stasis Field a 3 meter radius.  Giving the player an ability to lock down a a small cluster of enemies.

Evolved Version 2,  Flux Stasis:  Lets players deal a diminished amount of damage on an enemy in stasis, say 30% (subject to play testing) of the weapon or power damage they would normally deal.  This would give the player a way to unload on a helpless opponent; but since their damage output would be greatly diminished, doing so comes at a cost since it will suck up their ammo and since they will have difficulty killing the target before the effects of stasis wear off.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 09 septembre 2010 - 12:11 .

[implodinggoat]

On a side note, I think it would be wise to remove the level cap for ME3 and with it the limit on talent points for Shepard and his squad.

The leveling system isn't quite deep enough to provide really deep character building (which I personally don't have a problem with) , so you might as well let the player max out all their powers and keep rewarding them with level ups. Alternatively you might impose a level cap on the players first play through; but allow the player to max out all their powers and their squad's powers by starting a new career from an imported end game save file, thus imposing the same character building limitations as in ME2 on the first play through and rewarding the player who completes a second play through.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:00 .

[kidbd15]

Stasis is a good power, it adds variety to how one plays the game.

[kidbd15]

implodinggoat wrote...

On a side note, I think it would be wise to remove the level cap for ME3 and with it the limit on talent points for Shepard and his squad.

The leveling system isn't quite deep enough to provide really deep character building (which I personally don't have a problem with) , so you might as well let the player max out all their powers and keep rewarding them with level ups. Alternatively you might impose a level cap on the players first play through; but allow the player to max out all their powers and their squad's powers by starting a new career from an imported end game save file, thus imposing the same character building limitations as in ME2 on the first play through and rewarding the player who completes a second play through.

This

[Cornelian]

I was sure before playing this download that Liara couldn't be a teammate on it. Obviously, I was wrong. :-)



Thank you again for the big good job Bioware.

[didymos1120]

kidbd15 wrote...

Stasis is a good power, it adds variety to how one plays the game.

One little trick I figured out:  it's a lovely little drone killer.  I just had Liara nailing rocket drones one after another, and pretty much ignored them otherwise.

[SgtBriareos]

kidbd15 wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

On a side note, I think it would be wise to remove the level cap for ME3 and with it the limit on talent points for Shepard and his squad.

The leveling system isn't quite deep enough to provide really deep character building (which I personally don't have a problem with) , so you might as well let the player max out all their powers and keep rewarding them with level ups. Alternatively you might impose a level cap on the players first play through; but allow the player to max out all their powers and their squad's powers by starting a new career from an imported end game save file, thus imposing the same character building limitations as in ME2 on the first play through and rewarding the player who completes a second play through.

This

Maxing everything out isn't what would I call a deep character building as you end up with everything no matter what you do. I do agree that increasing the level cap to lets say sixty would be a good idea though, but only if it's coped with a fifth level in each skill as well as a new skill or two per character, thus not allowing maxing everything. I again disagree in imposing a limit during the first playthrough, to do that is better to simply don't give enough experience to max the character, this way you get a similar experience and those that only want to go through it a single time while exploring the most of the game wouldn't feel constricted while encouraging second runs for those who have finished it.

[implodinggoat]

SgtBriareos wrote...

kidbd15 wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

On a side note, I think it would be wise to remove the level cap for ME3 and with it the limit on talent points for Shepard and his squad.

The leveling system isn't quite deep enough to provide really deep character building (which I personally don't have a problem with) , so you might as well let the player max out all their powers and keep rewarding them with level ups. Alternatively you might impose a level cap on the players first play through; but allow the player to max out all their powers and their squad's powers by starting a new career from an imported end game save file, thus imposing the same character building limitations as in ME2 on the first play through and rewarding the player who completes a second play through.

This

Maxing everything out isn't what would I call a deep character building as you end up with everything no matter what you do. I do agree that increasing the level cap to lets say sixty would be a good idea though, but only if it's coped with a fifth level in each skill as well as a new skill or two per character, thus not allowing maxing everything. I again disagree in imposing a limit during the first playthrough, to do that is better to simply don't give enough experience to max the character, this way you get a similar experience and those that only want to go through it a single time while exploring the most of the game wouldn't feel constricted while encouraging second runs for those who have finished it.

I'm not saying its deep character building.  I'm saying that the leveling system in ME2 isn't complex enough to provide deep character building in the first place, so there's no point in even trying. 

The ME1 leveling system did provide deeper character building; but it was also a lot more obtuse and complicated than the streamlined ME2 system.  Ultimately I found that I prefferred the ME2 leveling system even though its not as deep as the ME1 system.  But the ME2 system does what it needs to do, its really easy to use and when you do level up you feel the effects of your new power a lot more than you did in ME1.

The character building in ME2 mainly comes from which powers you want to prioritize, which way you choose to evolve a power at level 4, and which bonus powers you choose. The powers you choose not to level up because you don't have the points to do so come off feeling more like a wasted opportunity than as a meaningful strategic choice.

I've gotten into modding so I can tell you from experience that the game is more entertaining when you max out all of Shepard and the squad's powers.  Since the powers share a common cooldown maxing out all of your powers (or your squad's powers) doesn't really make you overpowered; but it adds a lot of variety to the combat.

So, since imposing a level cap in ME2 really doesn't provide deep character building in the first place, it might as well be scrapped in favor of feeding the player's desire to level up.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 09 septembre 2010 - 12:37 .

[Solaris Paradox]

Skyblade012 wrote...

You say that no other henchmen received Singularity to keep Shepard's unique powers special. That being the case, what was the reason behind giving two henchmen the Engineer's unique ability, the Combat Drone?

Were I to venture a guess, I would guess that it's because Combat Drone isn't terribly useful as more than a diversionary tactic, and having that diversionary tactic limited to one Shepard class that not everyone really wants to play would have restricted its use a bit too much to counter its particular balance of usefulness/uselessness.

To but it bluntly: I would not consider Combat Drone a point in favor of the Engineer vs. other tech-oriented classes in the same way I consider Tactical Cloak a strong point in favor of choosing Infiltrator. I would, however, consider bringing Tali or Legion along to use Combat Drones to take some of the heat off of me and my squad.

[Solaris Paradox]

implodinggoat wrote...

As I said I like stasis; but I do have a few ideas for improving it.

1:  Have the duration increase AND rate at which enemies become immune decrease for each level of the power unlocked.

2:  Make it more clear to the player how the enemy immunity works.  IE Give us the numbers you're using to calculate the diminishing returns on the duration.

3:  The Evolved Versions Are Underwhelming:  As in ME1 Stasis is an ability which has a lot of upside from investing a single point in it, which is unto itself a plus in my opinion; but fully evolving it to level 4 doesn't seem like a good return on investment.  So here's how I'd tweak it...

Evolved Version 1, Stasis Field:  Gives the Stasis Field a 3 meter radius.  Giving the player an ability to lock down a a small cluster of enemies.

Evolved Version 2,  Flux Stasis:  Lets players deal a diminished amount of damage on an enemy in stasis, say 30% (subject to play testing) of the weapon or power damage they would normally deal.  This would give the player a way to unload on a helpless opponent; but since their damage output would be greatly diminished, doing so comes at a cost since it will suck up their ammo and since they will have difficulty killing the target before the effects of stasis wear off.

Those are some good ideas--in theory, anyway.

[Kronner]

Stasis can do this

[Solaris Paradox]

Kronner wrote...

Stasis can do this

That makes no sense, but it's awesome all the same.

[didymos1120]

Solaris Paradox wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Stasis can do this

That makes no sense, but it's awesome all the same.

Sure it does: stasis suspends you, frozen, in a mass effect field.  If you're on a moving object, and it ain't in that stasis field as well, you're gonna stay where you are and fall when the field collapses, unless some sort of obstruction prevents you from going over the edge.  You can even see that failing here due to the little wall being too low, which just makes the Scion rotate a bit before plummeting to its doom.

Now, here's what doesn't make sense: while fighting on the hull of the Broker's ship, you can stasis drones in mid-air...and they keep moving with the ship despite not even remotely being in contact with it.

[SgtBriareos]

implodinggoat wrote...

I'm not saying its deep character building.  I'm saying that the leveling system in ME2 isn't complex enough to provide deep character building in the first place, so there's no point in even trying. 

The ME1 leveling system did provide deeper character building; but it was also a lot more obtuse and complicated than the streamlined ME2 system.  Ultimately I found that I prefferred the ME2 leveling system even though its not as deep as the ME1 system.  But the ME2 system does what it needs to do, its really easy to use and when you do level up you feel the effects of your new power a lot more than you did in ME1.

The character building in ME2 mainly comes from which powers you want to prioritize, which way you choose to evolve a power at level 4, and which bonus powers you choose. The powers you choose not to level up because you don't have the points to do so come off feeling more like a wasted opportunity than as a meaningful strategic choice.

I've gotten into modding so I can tell you from experience that the game is more entertaining when you max out all of Shepard and the squad's powers.  Since the powers share a common cooldown maxing out all of your powers (or your squad's powers) doesn't really make you overpowered; but it adds a lot of variety to the combat.

So, since imposing a level cap in ME2 really doesn't provide deep character building in the first place, it might as well be scrapped in favor of feeding the player's desire to level up.

I must disagree: I never felt that obtaining the bonus powers was indispensable. Yes, I aimed for them on the skills I used the most but there were quite a few occasions where I prefered to have a wide selection of skills instead of a very powerful one. Also I consider that being able to choose what my character can and can't do not only is a core mechanism in RPGs but a very nice feature in all games that allow it. In Mass Effect in particular this allowed me to level what would otherwise be quite similar characters differently enough so that I kept using different combinations of teammates. Indeed, the only ones I didn't used at all where Jacob, Jack and Samara due to their reduced number of protection trespassing skills.

Also, I never felt a desire to level up once I reached thirty: the fun combat system and story were more than enough incentives to keep me playing. In Fallout 3 for instance I stopped playing the moment I reached twenty only to resume it again with the DLC that raised the level cap to thirty and guess what happend when I hitted it. On my first ME2 playthrough in insane I hit level 30 right after leaving the Lazarus Proyect facility and it didn't maimed my interest on keeping playing at all.

Long story short: I'm all in for customization and raising the level cap doesn't prolongue the life of ME so I say yes for a higher level cap but no for maxing all the skills.

Modifié par SgtBriareos, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[implodinggoat]

Another idea I had for tweaking Stasis.

Make Stasis A Power You Can Detonate With Warp.

The idea being that the target itself will be unaffected by the damage from warp, or by the ensuing detonation; but any enemies nearby will get lit up.  It would kind of turn the enemy into a bomb in the same way that detonating an enemy affected by Dominate does.  Since Stasis can instantly effect any enemy regardless of whether they have protection or not, I could see how this combo might be too powerful; but I think the concept is worth play testing.

PS:  For anyone who hasn't tried warp detonating an enemy affected by Dominate, give it a try.  Its quite entertaining. 

Modifié par implodinggoat, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:12 .