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[tmelange]

 *scratches head* Now it all becomes clear:

"More and more we're trying to create something dynamic and exciting like a really great movie and we're trying to get away from dialogue, though even a movie has conversations." -- Casey Hudson

http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1118657p2.html

[Dave of Canada]

Wha-? Dialogue is probably one of the only reasons I keep replaying the game.

[Rivercurse]

The format for the finale won't change dramatically from what you see in Mass Effect 2. Look at the reviews, both fan and critic.

[pacer90]

I believe it was meant that instead of using ONLY dialogue in the cutscenes, there would be a more cinematic feel with action, violence, emotion etc.





A good example is the cutscenes in the new DLC.

[Alexine]

So Garrus won't budge from his "calibrations"? Damn...

[tmelange]

Rivercurse wrote...

The format for the finale won't change dramatically from what you see in Mass Effect 2. Look at the reviews, both fan and critic.

I'm concerned that this is expressed as a goal at all, whether it's ultimately implemented in this franchise. Bioware is unique because of its storytelling, and dialogue is key to that. I wouldn't want to see Bioware go in this direction, now or ever.

[tmelange]

pacer90 wrote...

I believe it was meant that instead of using ONLY dialogue in the cutscenes, there would be a more cinematic feel with action, violence, emotion etc.


A good example is the cutscenes in the new DLC.

You think he's talking *only* about the cut scenes and not about the game in general?

[Hathur]

Woa.. roughly 80% of people played as male shep.. that surprised me (not in a pleasant way) since I found fem shep's voice acting far stronger in terms of line delivery.



Also, most played class was soldier - more than all other classes combined.. that's depressing



And my favorite class is the least played.. Engineer

[Rivercurse]

tmelange wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...

The format for the finale won't change dramatically from what you see in Mass Effect 2. Look at the reviews, both fan and critic.

I'm concerned that this is expressed as a goal at all, whether it's ultimately implemented in this franchise. Bioware is unique because of its storytelling, and dialogue is key to that. I wouldn't want to see Bioware go in this direction, now or ever.

Whats that supposed to mean?  What direction?

Mass Effect 2 has a great story, and much more dialogue than ME1 in terms of word count.  The fact that this game was reviewed so positively by all and sundry is simply a spur to continue on the current successful path.

Modifié par Rivercurse, 08 septembre 2010 - 12:12 .

[Spartas Husky]

..............god no,.... I dont want ME3 overlord style. If I wanted a mute shootinggallery I would go down the street and play some arcade game shooter.

[Bolshevik kityy]

The dialogue and the wheel are greatly loved by fans and critics alike. I cant see them moving away from that...that would be just another shooter with a kind of story =/. I dont want that at all

[MisterMonkeyBanana]

Hathur wrote...

Woa.. roughly 80% of people played as male shep.. that surprised me (not in a pleasant way) since I found fem shep's voice acting far stronger in terms of line delivery.

Also, most played class was soldier - more than all other classes combined.. that's depressing

And my favorite class is the least played.. Engineer

Playing a Femshep engineer just makes you unique! Well not really, I'm exactly the same in preferring Femshep and <3ing the Engineer as a class.

[Eradyn]

This...has got to be the most W.T.F. worthy quote I've heard from a BW dev. A BIOWARE dev. Seriously? One of the most critical aspects that draw people to your games and you want to go the way of...what exactly? Mute squadmates? This is...you have GOT to be kidding me. Hudson...WHAT on EARTH are you and BW smoking? Is EA that far up you guys that you're going to destroy what set you apart and helped make your games great? SERIOUSLY?



Wow. Please tell me ME3 won't be affected by this tidbit. PLEASE.

[Whatever42]

I'm 99% sure we're just misunderstanding him. He says he wants it to be like a movie - hence, we wants movie dialogue.



Most CRPGs have loads of exposition in the dialogue, long winded explanations of this culture or that sword or what the villain had for breakfast. I think he just wants tighter,more concise dialogue. And we see that in ME2 versus DAO.

[tmelange]

Hathur wrote...

Woa.. roughly 80% of people played as male shep.. that surprised me (not in a pleasant way) since I found fem shep's voice acting far stronger in terms of line delivery.

Also, most played class was soldier - more than all other classes combined.. that's depressing

And my favorite class is the least played.. Engineer

On the one hand, I wish this stat was higher. On the other hand, I'm surprised it's as high as it is. One in five people play as femShep. That's not an inconsequential percentage, by any means. Then, you do have to consider that the percentage is not necessarily indicative of the number of girls that play, which I guess is the underlying issue. I'm a girl who happens to like to play male characters more than I like to play female characters because I want an experience totally different from RL. 

[Eradyn]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm 99% sure we're just misunderstanding him. He says he wants it to be like a movie - hence, we wants movie dialogue.

Most CRPGs have loads of exposition in the dialogue, long winded explanations of this culture or that sword or what the villain had for breakfast. I think he just wants tighter,more concise dialogue. And we see that in ME2 versus DAO.

You can take away the "walking encyclopedia" portion of the dialogue and show it, sure.  I'd actually prefer that.  But then that should mean you can devote dialogue to OTHER less "encylopedic" topics, such as squad banter and relationship (platonic and otherwise) dialogue.  OWAIT. That means at least as much, or more, dialogue. <_<

I'm starting to feel that old cynicism creep back again, after the lovely afterglow of Garrus' inclusion, too.  Sheesh.

tmelange wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Woa..
roughly 80% of people played as male shep.. that surprised me (not in a
pleasant way) since I found fem shep's voice acting far stronger in
terms of line delivery.

Also, most played class was soldier - more than all other classes combined.. that's depressing

And my favorite class is the least played.. Engineer

On
the one hand, I wish this stat was higher. On the other hand, I'm
surprised it's as high as it is. One in five people play as femShep.
That's not an inconsequential percentage, by any means. Then, you do
have to consider that the percentage is not necessarily indicative of
the number of girls that play, which I guess is the underlying issue.
I'm a girl who happens to like to play male characters more than I like
to play female characters because I want an experience totally different
from RL. 

I'm honestly not surprised it's as high as it is...but I do wonder just what that stat is for.  I would be very interested to see what the femShep stat is, because 80% playing as a male shep is not necessarily exclusionary to those who play femSheps as well. I would hasten to guess that it DOES mean that 20% played as femShep exclusively, I think.

Modifié par Eradyn, 08 septembre 2010 - 12:30 .

[ThePatriot101]

Yeah, I'm certain he's not suggesting they're removing a majority of the dialogue. Just probably trimming the 20 Questions game you could play with almost anyone in ME1 and ME2.



Those dialogue options do tend to drag on a bit, and in situations where you're in combat they're downright untimely.

[tmelange]

Eradyn wrote...

This...has got to be the most W.T.F. worthy quote I've heard from a BW dev. A BIOWARE dev. Seriously? One of the most critical aspects that draw people to your games and you want to go the way of...what exactly? Mute squadmates? This is...you have GOT to be kidding me. Hudson...WHAT on EARTH are you and BW smoking? Is EA that far up you guys that you're going to destroy what set you apart and helped make your games great? SERIOUSLY?

Wow. Please tell me ME3 won't be affected by this tidbit. PLEASE.

I think the ME franchise has already been affected by this philosophy. I never felt that ME had as much dialogue as other bioware games (and maybe that's a wrong feeling). I always felt there wasn't nearly enough team discussion or banter in ME1 and in ME2, though there were a lot more teammates, the breadth of interaction via dialogue still seemed somehow...restricted, and in some cases (Zaeed), very restricted. I think it would be a cost effective move for any studio to try to find a way to keep or grow a core audience without having to invest so heavily in voice acting. It's a shame, but I don't expect it to trend in the other direction, especially with game production times shortening.

Modifié par tmelange, 08 septembre 2010 - 12:32 .

[Krytheos]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm 99% sure we're just misunderstanding him. He says he wants it to be like a movie - hence, we wants movie dialogue.

Most CRPGs have loads of exposition in the dialogue, long winded explanations of this culture or that sword or what the villain had for breakfast. I think he just wants tighter,more concise dialogue. And we see that in ME2 versus DAO.

This best not effect DA: 2. Seriously. Long winded explanations of culturues, swords, and the villain had for breakfast are GOOD, atmospheric content that is often optional reading for those who do not wish it so, aside from the villain bit.

DA: O was a good quality game, and DA: 2 will be no different .However, if this impacts further games down the line, I will not be a happy camper. If I would be so bold, I would have to say, even at the behest of someone warning me: 

Hudson, take those statistics, and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. Because they. Do not. Matter. So what if 80% of people played MaleShep? So. What.? It doesn't matter. It's an RPG, and RPGs are meant to be played how one wants to play them, not based on some preconceptions about how only so many percentage of people play this or play that, or do this mission, or not.

It's all about choice, and I -want- choice in my RPGs. I -want- choice, I don't want them to be HAMPERED and boggled down because of STATISTIC BULLCRAP. Leave the games as they are, and make them better; keep dialogue, keep everything that makes them great, but don't take away the uniqueness of it. Otherwise, you'll become just another notch on my Companies-To-Never-Buy-From list, alongside Corporations-To-Never-Trust list; without choice, your games are no longer unique, and fun; they become either boring, repetitve shooters with a story, or they become JRPGs with nothing that changes according to any decision you make.

If this happens, I will hold a funeral for BioWare. If this doesn't, I will be happy, but this is just gone way too far now, and way too grown into statistics.

[Eradyn]

tmelange wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

This...has got to be the most W.T.F. worthy quote I've heard from a BW dev. A BIOWARE dev. Seriously? One of the most critical aspects that draw people to your games and you want to go the way of...what exactly? Mute squadmates? This is...you have GOT to be kidding me. Hudson...WHAT on EARTH are you and BW smoking? Is EA that far up you guys that you're going to destroy what set you apart and helped make your games great? SERIOUSLY?

Wow. Please tell me ME3 won't be affected by this tidbit. PLEASE.

I think the ME franchise has already been affected by this philosophy. I never felt that ME had as much dialogue as other bioware games (and maybe that's a wrong feeling). I always felt there wasn't nearly enough team discussion or banter in ME1 and in ME2, though there were a lot more teammates, the breadth of interaction via dialogue still seemed somehow...restricted, and in some cases (Zaeed), very restricted. I think it would be a cost effective move for any studio to try to find a way to keep or grow a core audience without having to invest so heavily in voice acting. It's a shame, but I don't expect it to trend in the other direction, especially with game production times shortening.

I will agree with you there.  Their past games seemed to have far more depth regarding dialogue and relationship building (not necessarily romantic relationships, either).  Still, that they would consider going the path of even LESS, when people are begging them for MORE...I just don't know.  Well...actually...I DO know that if there is one thing ME3 DOESN'T need, it's LESS dialogue.

I'm getting the feeling this is another knee-jerk move from BW from the "zomg, too much talking, brain hurtz" crowd that doesn't really appreciate that aspect of RPGs.  A damned shame...

[Whatever42]

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 08 septembre 2010 - 12:39 .

[Nibroc17]

Sounds out of Context to me....

[javierabegazo]

You're just taking it out of context. What BioWare seemed most proud of, was moments when you could SEE just how hurt Ashley was when Shepard berated her after Eden Prime.



They want to achieve a level of cinematic quality that you could see the person's emotions, just as in real life, rather than have a flat face, and big words.

[tmelange]

Eradyn wrote...

I'm honestly not surprised it's as high as it is...but I do wonder just what that stat is for.  I would be very interested to see what the femShep stat is, because 80% playing as a male shep is not necessarily exclusionary to those who play femSheps as well. I would hasten to guess that it DOES mean that 20% played as femShep exclusively, I think.

I assumed it meant that 20% of all games were played as femshep, not that 20% of people played as femshep exclusively. I would think...well, wouldn't a lot of people play at least once as their non-preferred gender, just to see what happens? I played femshep once in both ME1 and ME2 just so I could see how she played and how the romances panned out.

If the number is meant to reflect exclusive playership...well, that number would be pretty high, in my opinion, considering they didn't even market femshep.

[tmelange]

javierabegazo wrote...

You're just taking it out of context. What BioWare seemed most proud of, was moments when you could SEE just how hurt Ashley was when Shepard berated her after Eden Prime.

They want to achieve a level of cinematic quality that you could see the person's emotions, just as in real life, rather than have a flat face, and big words.

I'm not taking anything out of context, thank you. The entire context is provided, read it for yourself. If there is confusion with regard to what he meant, it's not because I'm taking him out of context; it's because he didn't make his context clear. Which is why we're discussing this.