406 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Man]

Moiaussi wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...

Riiight, the 'some' of the Geth that nearly destroyed the Citadel and paved the way for the Reaper return (while the main Geth faction did absolutly NOTHING to stop them), I forgot about them.

The main body of Geth that are still officially 'illegal' outside the veil? Who if they came out could be treated as a hostile invasion? Who do NOT know sovereign's plans or when to show up at the Citadel to help?

Horrible that they stayed neutral rather than have the Council decide they are a threat after all, go into full scale war with them instead of Sovereign. Simply horrible.

the Geth are responsible for they're own species. They should have reined them in at them beginning. Or else they will rightfully be considered a rouge species. Even if they didn't come out of the Veil, they could have sent a warnng if they actually cared.

[Moiaussi]

Mr. Man wrote...

the Geth are responsible for they're own species. They should have reined them in at them beginning. Or else they will rightfully be considered a rouge species. Even if they didn't come out of the Veil, they could have sent a warnng if they actually cared.

Will you listen to yourself? Rogue species? Pardon? So Humanity should be treated as a 'rogue species' because of Cerberus, and the Turians because of Saren? And the Asari because of Morinth? Pretty much every race because of Terminus pirates?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... and I am betting that isn't you.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:33 .

[GnusmasTHX]

I'd rather have the quarians in my fight against the Reapers, but if I need both, I guess I'll go with the peace/truce Captain.

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

I wish I had the option to let the quarians and geth handle it themselves but that probably won't happen.

[upsettingshorts]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

I wish I had the option to let the quarians and geth handle it themselves but that probably won't happen.

When there's that much history and bad blood, bilateral peace talks are problematic.  That's why you see other countries getting involved, trying to act as mediator, pretty often in history.

Shepard has influence with the Quarian Admiralty.  Shepard has influence - through Legion - with the Orthodox Geth.  No-one else in the galaxy can claim both, and so he makes a great candidate for peacemaker.  If he so chooses.  If he wants war, he's gonna have to pick sides.

Unless he just likes explosions.  Then he can ram them together like a 4-year old would a pair of toy trucks.  

/makes childish crashing noises with his voice

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[Quinnzel]

Just let Kal Reegar deal with the problem. He has a head on his shoulders and a missile launcher in his hands. Whilst I'm all for the Quarians and Geth making peace, I ain't trusting anyone named Quib Quib.

[Moiaussi]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I'd rather have the quarians in my fight against the Reapers, but if I need both, I guess I'll go with the peace/truce Captain.

Quarians *might* have some better tech, but the Geth will have newer ships. The trick to it is though that Shepard doesn't get to know what will be needed until the actual battle, but by the time you know that as a player, you also should get a good sense of how peace or war would play out for the Quarian/Geth situation too.

So if you have hindsight in one you would in the other.

[Dave of Canada]

Quinnzel wrote...

Just let Kal Reegar deal with the problem. He has a head on his shoulders and a missile launcher in his hands. Whilst I'm all for the Quarians and Geth making peace, I ain't trusting anyone named Quib Quib.

Adam Baldwin is the superior Quarian. He doesn't have an accent, he doesn't sound like Loghain or Miranda and his name doesn't end in Quib Quib.

[Mr. Man]

Moiaussi wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...

the Geth are responsible for they're own species. They should have reined them in at them beginning. Or else they will rightfully be considered a rouge species. Even if they didn't come out of the Veil, they could have sent a warnng if they actually cared.

Will you listen to yourself? Rogue species? Pardon? So Humanity should be treated as a 'rogue species' because of Cerberus, and the Turians because of Saren? And the Asari because of Morinth? Pretty much every race because of Terminus pirates?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... and I am betting that isn't you.

Turians, Asari, even Cerberus never attacked the Citadel. Saren was one Man, Morinth was one woman, Cerberus was larger but since it helped stop the collectors I think it deserves some credit. The Heretic Geth numbered in the billions.

[upsettingshorts]

Adam Baldwin isn't stupid enough to go attacking the Geth head on either. He knows the score.

But he's working on calling Tali "Tali" instead of "ma'am" so he's probly too busy to liberate the homeworld anyway.

Animal Moth... er... Kal'Reagor is so awesome I'm never romancing Tali, just so they can hook up.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:10 .

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Animal Moth... er... Kal'Reagor is so awesome I'm never romancing Tali, just so they can hook up.

Doubt it. Tali apparently has a human fetish according to the SB's files.

[upsettingshorts]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Doubt it. Tali apparently has a human fetish according to the SB's files.

That's just the Talimancers using their influence to ****block Kal'Reagor. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:14 .

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

I wish I had the option to let the quarians and geth handle it themselves but that probably won't happen.

When there's that much history and bad blood, bilateral peace talks are problematic.  That's why you see other countries getting involved, trying to act as mediator, pretty often in history.

Shepard has influence with the Quarian Admiralty.  Shepard has influence - through Legion - with the Orthodox Geth.  No-one else in the galaxy can claim both, and so he makes a great candidate for peacemaker.  If he so chooses.  If he wants war, he's gonna have to pick sides.

Unless he just likes explosions.  Then he can ram them together like a 4-year old would a pair of toy trucks.  

/makes childish crashing noises with his voice

Just because you can be involved, doesn't mean you should. My reasoning is exactly what Kaiden thinks about the rachni decision. Leave the people involved to make their own decision. Getting involved in something neither you nor anyone you have ever known has been involved in is... arrogant. But Mass effect is about taking sides i guess, which is good and fun anyway...

[xlavaina]

Mr. Man wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...

the Geth are responsible for they're own species. They should have reined them in at them beginning. Or else they will rightfully be considered a rouge species. Even if they didn't come out of the Veil, they could have sent a warnng if they actually cared.

Will you listen to yourself? Rogue species? Pardon? So Humanity should be treated as a 'rogue species' because of Cerberus, and the Turians because of Saren? And the Asari because of Morinth? Pretty much every race because of Terminus pirates?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... and I am betting that isn't you.

Turians, Asari, even Cerberus never attacked the Citadel. Saren was one Man, Morinth was one woman, Cerberus was larger but since it helped stop the collectors I think it deserves some credit. The Heretic Geth numbered in the billions.

Woah slow down man. Billions?! Okay lets say thats even true. The heretic Geth only consisted of 5% of the "true" Geth population. What you're saying is that there is essentially 20 times as many regular Geth? No way. Thats WAY too big a number. The Heretic Geth were a splinter faction/species of the regular Geth, no matter how you slice it, the Heretic Geth are similar to Cerberus.

[upsettingshorts]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...
Just because you can be involved, doesn't mean you should. My reasoning is exactly what Kaiden thinks about the rachni decision. Leave the people involved to make their own decision. Getting involved in something neither you nor anyone you have ever known has been involved in is... arrogant. But Mass effect is about taking sides i guess, which is good and fun anyway...

Kaidan is wrong and shortsighted.  Opportunities to make a positive impact on the world - such as the unique situation Shepard finds himself in - have to be taken advantage of or they're lost.   Heck, negotiating the end of hostiliies for a war his country wasn't involved in earned Theodore Roosevelt the Nobel Peace Prize.  It's not unheard of or arrogant at all.  It's diplomacy.

It's in those moments with the right people that history actually gets made.

But to draw attention to an earlier point I was making, Shepard shouldn't (and couldn't) hold their hands through an entire peace process - he can and in my opinion should however encourage both sides to take the first step towards peaceful co-existence. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:24 .

[Mr. Man]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

I wish I had the option to let the quarians and geth handle it themselves but that probably won't happen.

When there's that much history and bad blood, bilateral peace talks are problematic.  That's why you see other countries getting involved, trying to act as mediator, pretty often in history.

Shepard has influence with the Quarian Admiralty.  Shepard has influence - through Legion - with the Orthodox Geth.  No-one else in the galaxy can claim both, and so he makes a great candidate for peacemaker.  If he so chooses.  If he wants war, he's gonna have to pick sides.

Unless he just likes explosions.  Then he can ram them together like a 4-year old would a pair of toy trucks.  

/makes childish crashing noises with his voice

Just because you can be involved, doesn't mean you should. My reasoning is exactly what Kaiden thinks about the rachni decision. Leave the people involved to make their own decision. Getting involved in something neither you nor anyone you have ever known has been involved in is... arrogant. But Mass effect is about taking sides i guess, which is good and fun anyway...

.....I agree. But the Geth r to dangerous to simply be left to their own devices against the quarians. If it comes to war, I  am still gonna help the Quarians

[upsettingshorts]

Mr. Man wrote...
.....I agree. But the Geth r to dangerous to simply be left to their own devices against the quarians. If it comes to war, I  am still gonna help the Quarians

Only the Geth are dangerous?  Re-read the email Admiral Xen sends you post Tali-Loyalty mission sometime.  It's an explicit threat towards humanity.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:27 .

[Mr. Man]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...
.....I agree. But the Geth r to dangerous to simply be left to their own devices against the quarians. If it comes to war, I  am still gonna help the Quarians

Only the Geth are dangerous?  Re-read the email Admiral Xen sends you post Tali-Loyalty mission sometime.  It's an explicit threat towards humanity.

What exactly did she say again?

[Moiaussi]

Mr. Man wrote...

Turians, Asari, even Cerberus never attacked the Citadel. Saren was one Man, Morinth was one woman, Cerberus was larger but since it helped stop the collectors I think it deserves some credit. The Heretic Geth numbered in the billions.

Billions? Where is your number from? Do you have any clue how many ships they would have needed to settle 'billions?" The combined Council and Alliance fleets don't field 'billions.'

Not attacking the Citadel means what? Cerberus are considered a terrorist organization and a threat to the Council.

The Terminus pirates consisted of a mix of all of the above races, and did engage in war against the Council.

You draw the line at individual members, saying that Saren doesn't count because he was just one Turian, but how many of a race do you need before it is that race's 'responsibility?" If a group of humans want to settle on some distant world, should they be prevented from doing so? Locked up? Held under guard just in case?

[DPSSOC]

Roamingmachine wrote...
At what point is a coffee maker smart enough that you have to give it rights?

 
When it starts demonstrating unintended abstract thought.  The moment the Geth asked, "Do I have a soul." they were alive.  You can argue until you're blue in the face about how they're just machines but so are we.  The difference between us and the Geth is they have the advantage of superior construction.  They have code we have chemical reactions, they have wires we have veins.  This is not some machine designed to immitate life it is alive and the nature of it's creation is irrellevant..

Roamingmachine wrote...
We cannot have the tools we have created turn on us and leaving the geth alone would be a bad presedent as well as an example to rogue ai everywhere what to strive for (remember the one on Citadel?).

Do you remeber the AI on the Citadel?  It wasn't looking to hurt anyone or making schemes for domination it was stealing money so it could go somewhere it's existence wouldn't be considered criminal.  If you found yourself, through no fault of your own, in a location where you would be killed simply for existing would you not seek to get the hell out?

Now more on-topic

I remember it was mentioned before that the Quarians wouldn't be going to war if they didn't think they had a chance of winning, I disagree.  From what I hear from Raan and Gerrel, as well as Raeel's(sp?) actions on the Alarei this war is not a well thought decision it's an act of desperation.  The Quarians are breaking, if they aren't already broken, they've had it with how they're forced to live and they are lashing out.  This is not a well thought out strategy this is a prisoner making a last ditch break for the wall regardless of the knowledge he'll be killed.

As for Xen's idea it sounds good in theory, but the main problem with it lies in that if the attempt to regain control of the Geth fails, or it succeeds but the Geth eventually regain their freedom again (much like the Krogan evolving around the genophage) they will know that there is no chance for peace and the Quarians will never stop trying to control or destroy them.  This will most likely lead to the conclusion that the Quarians must be wiped out if the Geth are to self-determinate and bring rise to a new war and this time the Geth won't stop at driving them from the Perseus Veil.

Even Koris' plan has the problem that there's no guarantee of lasting peace and the whole thing could just start up again.  In my view the best solution is for the Quarians to finally come to terms with their defeat and either settle a new world or continue roaming the stars but either way they need to accept that their home is lost and move on.

[upsettingshorts]

Mr. Man wrote...
What exactly did she say again?

The gist of it was that humanity was going to "watch from a distance" as the Quarians reclaimed "the largest synthetic army in the galaxy."

Upon re-reading it's more of a strongly implied threat than an explicit one.  Still a valid concern.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Collider]

Korris has the closest thing to the right idea.

[Mr. Man]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...
What exactly did she say again?

The gist of it was that humanity was going to "watch from a distance" as the Quarians reclaimed "the largest synthetic army in the galaxy."

Upon re-reading it's more of a strongly implied threat than an explicit one.  Still a valid concern.

hmm, that would definatly be a concern, I need to look into this

[Bookman230]

Koris. As the only non-racist Quarian, he was always my second-favorite Quarian. Peace!

[upsettingshorts]

Mr. Man wrote...
hmm, that would definatly be a concern, I need to look into this

Yeah it isn't as explicit as I remembered, but still I don't know how else to take "we're gonna have a big army soon and there's nothing you can do about it" other than as a threat.