116 réponses à ce sujet

[Homebound]

prof-waffles wrote...

http://www.destructo...-2-183311.phtml

http://kotaku.com/56...-2-player-stats

http://xbox360.ign.c.../1117896p1.html

-etc-

Kinda scary, but then again, you can NOT send them data. Its in the options thingy.

[Spinnazie]

I hate that conversations skipped stat, on my first playthrough I didn't skip ANY dialogue. On subsequent ones, however, I tend to skip certain things.

[Lumikki]

HTTP 404 wrote...

im ok with it. i dont have anything to hide.

Nor do I, but that doesn't give them permission to break others privacy. Let see, if janitor would use they master key and come your home, just look at it. So, when you come home and see someones been there, but you don't know the reason, do you like it, as say it's okey others be inside your home without you knowing it.

My point, it's polite to ask when someone invades someone else privacy.

So, it's fine to collect data as long they would have been asking permission for it. But they do it behind peoples back.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 septembre 2010 - 01:27 .

[Mrxknown]

Lumikki wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

im ok with it. i dont have anything to hide.

Nor do I, but that doesn't give them permission to break others privacy. Let see, if janitor would use they master key and come your home, just look at it. So, when you come home and see someones been there, but you don't know the reason, do you like it, as say it's okey others be inside your home without you knowing it.

My point, it's polite to ask when someone invades someone else privacy.

So, it's fine to collect data as long they would have been asking permission for it. But they do it behind peoples back.

They do ask it's in the game options. I turned mine off  the day I got ME2 on release!

[Lumikki]

Mrxknown wrote...

They do ask it's in the game options. I turned mine off  the day I got ME2 on release!

No they don't ask it, they give you option to prevent it.  Asking it would give people knowledge that they are doing it. Now it's left to people them self to find some "hidden" feature and then make decission.

[Miths]

How is this really a privacy issue when the data is sent anonymously and is used to compile general statistics about the game?



Visit a website and - unless you make sure your browser or net connection is making the data through one method or another, and most people, including myself, probably don't bother - every little detail about your browser, relevant system specifications, your path through the site, your time spent there on which pages, where you came from and where you exit from and a slew of other data is also stored and compiled by the site owner's statistics software.

And in this case you often won't even be properly anonymous as your IP address can be and often is also logged.



But what does it really matter? That data is only going to be used for practical purposes such as website optimization etc. - it's not like the owner is going to start sending you creepy Christmas cards or anything.

[Lumikki]

Miths wrote...

How is this really a privacy issue when the data is sent anonymously and is used to compile general statistics about the game?

Others have no rights to break someones privacy without permission. It doesn't matter what the data is or how it's used. It's breaking the line of privacy. The who is breakign it should allways ask permission. It's not even does the target person care if it's broken or not, it's matter of polite behavior. Meaning, the decission of judgement isn't the side of who does break the privacy, but who's privacy is broken.

But what does it really matter? That data is only going to be used for practical purposes such as website optimization etc. - it's not like the owner is going to start sending you creepy Christmas cards or anything.

Yes, it does matter for some people and no you have no right to make decissions behave of other people, even what ever your own personal opinion is in the matter.

[Spartas Husky]

Christmas Ape wrote...


Mass Effect 3 will be our own collective fault.

only!15% skipped dialogue, and theys till want to get away from it.....

one thing is giving feedback, the other is the individuals getting the feedback ACTUALLY using it.

it doesn't matter if I tell you, not to touch the damn fire, or you will get burn, it isn't my fault if you just go ahead and touch the fire just cuz.

same for bioware, we know how well 'listening' they do.

for all we know they will take out all other classes except soldier, if the mako, planet scanning fiasco is anything to take a lesson from.


there are 2 steps. listening, and using it, doesn't matter if the listen to us, if they aren't going to actually use the data in a meaningful way.

one thing bugs me though.... why can't they ask for permission?

you know 'new option in the options menu"

'allow private data to be sent to bioware for feedback purposes"...does it really take that much effort?

hell, can't you just add that option ehre in the website.

'register game tag.xxxxxx
Allow private data to be aquired from your game?
yes ()
no()

very simple, and it pleases everyone.

it bugs me that they do it without asking.

you only need a pebble to start an avalanche.

in perspective

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 08 septembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[Lord_Tirian]

Lumikki wrote...

No they don't ask it, they give you option to prevent it.  Asking it would give people knowledge that they are doing it. Now it's left to people them self to find some "hidden" feature and then make decission.

You agreed to it when you agreed to the EULA (it's section 3) - it's spelled out rather explicitly.

Or don't you read things before you agree to them!?

[Spartas Husky]

Lord_Tirian wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

No they don't ask it, they give you option to prevent it.  Asking it would give people knowledge that they are doing it. Now it's left to people them self to find some "hidden" feature and then make decission.

You agreed to it when you agreed to the EULA (it's section 3) - it's spelled out rather explicitly.

Or don't you read things before you agree to them!?

the EULA wa??? lol

where did I sign something?

or is that the xbox live thing?

dont remember clicking the box of 'I agree' or, signing any document when I bought mass effect 2.

[Lumikki]

Lord_Tirian wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

No they don't ask it, they give you option to prevent it.  Asking it would give people knowledge that they are doing it. Now it's left to people them self to find some "hidden" feature and then make decission.

You agreed to it when you agreed to the EULA (it's section 3) - it's spelled out rather explicitly.

Or don't you read things before you agree to them!?

You are correct, there it is sayed, but it doesn't say that you can also not agree for this collection of data. Also Eula should not be used this way as agreement, but at least it informs players about the data collection.

As for me I have no problem with that, because my game computer does NOT have active internet connection.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 septembre 2010 - 04:20 .

[HTTP 404]

I understand the ask permission its rude not to argument. Maybe Im just jaded about Technology, its quite naive to think companies are not looking into what you are doing online

[Spartas Husky]

HTTP 404 wrote...

I understand the ask permission its rude not to argument. Maybe Im just jaded about Technology, its quite naive to think companies are not looking into what you are doing online

hence why not be online lol.

if I aint using the internets, the cable is unplugged most of the time .

Still, been looking for the EULA thingie.

Where can i find a copy of it... i dont remember singing anything for the xbox version.

[Harley_Dude]

scottelite wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

15% of players skipped conversations? Well those 15% bought the wrong game IMHO.

No, it's 15% of conversations on average, per game were skipped.

That could lead to misleading data. I have skipped dialog when I had encountered it already but died. If they put checkpoints after dialog the data would be be more accurate.

[LeonBrass]

Collecting data this way has a few positives, but a bunch of negatives. It all depends on how BW uses the data. Consider:

1. Not everyone plays while connected to the net... this makes statistic analysis totally dependent on a single assumption: players on full time net connections play exactly like players without such connections.

2. Multiple play throughs result in different data sets for each playthrough, if not flagged and analyzed properly BW gets bad statistics on player "preferences"

3. Opt-in and Opt-out choices by the player (if available) depends on the player actually reading and doing something other than play the game... most of the time I just put in the new game, load up and go... No checking for "options" at all

4. Almost NO ONE reads those d******** EULA's and the companies know this, plus you MUST agree or you can not play the game you just bought! Very questionable ethics.

[Lumikki]

HTTP 404 wrote...

I understand the ask permission its rude not to argument. Maybe Im just jaded about Technology, its quite naive to think companies are not looking into what you are doing online

Maybe it is little naive, but most of us has learn that companies does stuff behind peoples back. How ever, it's not so much worry to know this,  than realise that how many people don't care or accept this behavior. Like it's okey to companies to use other people how they want, when there is possibility, even if there is excuse as mutual benefit. It's like world accept that when there is benefit for company or customers, it's okey to have excuses as not to behave correctly.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 septembre 2010 - 04:30 .

[Korhiann]

Fine by me. They are obviously using the data to improve the gameplay for ME3.

[Beocat]

I think the stats are interesting, but the developers should not look at it as the holy grail of their creation. It's flawed and considering what requirements you had to have for you to count one way or another, it makes it very misleading. As I said, it is interesting. I'm still wondering why they wanted to know how many people have played the game over 20 times... Is this a family playing and replaying or what?!

[Spartas Husky]

LeonBrass wrote...

Collecting data this way has a few positives, but a bunch of negatives. It all depends on how BW uses the data. Consider:
1. Not everyone plays while connected to the net... this makes statistic analysis totally dependent on a single assumption: players on full time net connections play exactly like players without such connections.
2. Multiple play throughs result in different data sets for each playthrough, if not flagged and analyzed properly BW gets bad statistics on player "preferences"
3. Opt-in and Opt-out choices by the player (if available) depends on the player actually reading and doing something other than play the game... most of the time I just put in the new game, load up and go... No checking for "options" at all
4. Almost NO ONE reads those d******** EULA's and the companies know this, plus you MUST agree or you can not play the game you just bought! Very questionable ethics.

amen to that.

if the planet scanning/mako 'listening to customers' or the 'rpg with shooting" being turned into cod.... or 'get away from dialogue' where it is one of the things that made it the most important.....

they can have all the data they want but what are the standards ?

if more people play soldier, is it because soldier is better?.... I play soldier mostly, but is because vanguards were screwed over, and sentinels, dont got enough variety.

15% is small number... are they still going to get away from dialogue when 85% went did not skip it.

only time I skip dialogue, is everything up to freedom's progress, everything after that is always heard.

[Lord_Tirian]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Still, been looking for the EULA thingie.

Where can i find a copy of it... i dont remember singing anything for the xbox version.

Sorry, no idea - PC guy here.

[wizardryforever]

Personally, I think people who rent the game on Gamefly, play it once with the default settings (or don't even play the whole game) and then return it skew the results greatly. More males (even though I prefer MaleShep), more soldiers, and more skippers of convos and incomplete playthroughs.

[Lumikki]

Lord_Tirian wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Still, been looking for the EULA thingie.

Where can i find a copy of it... i dont remember singing anything for the xbox version.

Sorry, no idea - PC guy here.

Yeah, same here as PC user, so EULA is in games document directory.

[SomeBug]

LeonBrass wrote...

Collecting data this way has a few positives, but a bunch of negatives. It all depends on how BW uses the data. Consider:

4. Almost NO ONE reads those d******** EULA's and the companies know this, plus you MUST agree or you can not play the game you just bought! Very questionable ethics.

How is this questionable ethics? Questionable ethics here would be to not force you to agree before playing and merely assuming you accept.

Not only that, but you must scroll down the entire agreement before the 'I accept' option becomes available for selection.

What more can they do to make sure you read the EULA? A pop quiz at the end?

Stop being so ridiculous.

[Lord_Tirian]

SomeBug wrote...

How is this questionable ethics? Questionable ethics here would be to not force you to agree before playing and merely assuming you accept.

Not only that, but you must scroll down the entire agreement before the 'I accept' option becomes available for selection.

Mind you, I do find the concept of EULAs (or "shrink-wrap licences") questionable, since you can't review them before the sale - and if the quoted poster would disagree with that, I'd totally be on his side - in fact, that's why the legality of EULAs is questionable, depending on your local legislation.

However, if it's about "secretly gathering data", well, it's not really secret if it's spelled out and consented to by you, no? And the not reading EULAs is bad practise in general - do people sign stuff in the Real Life™ without reading it first!?

EDIT: Of course, no idea how they did that for the Xbox, I wouldn't be surprised if the Xbox Live services etc. already contain such a clause.

Modifié par Lord_Tirian, 08 septembre 2010 - 04:47 .

[markjohngeraghty]

I think it's an excellent idea and a valuable tool for making better games. Hopefully Bioware will realise that 85% of players did not skip convos and will take into account replays.

Invasion of privacy is a strange way to view it. The data is anonymous and harmless from what I can see. People I've never met knowing which ME2 heavy pistol I preferred just doesn't worry me at all.*

* If I start getting emails from IRL gun companies that have noted this preference, I may change my mind.

Modifié par markjohngeraghty, 08 septembre 2010 - 04:50 .