116 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Arijharn wrote...

I do understand what you're saying, I just think you're wrong simply because it's not another person's responsibility to hold your hand and point things out to you.

Sorry, but I'm not sure do you really understand what I'm talking. I'm talking the difference like this example.

You ring someones door bell and when door opens, you say "Hi" and walk in or when door opens you wait for person who opened the door to say "Hi, come in" or if there is no invitation to come in, then you say "Can I come in?". That's what I'm talking. It's about stoping and doing the polite behavior, not just do what ever you self want the way you want.

What you talk is blame everyone else if they don't read the fine print, when you self know that allmost no-one never reads it. It's about using others little rude ways and hiding behind laws, than do the polite way and just ask it in right way.

I ques this kind of polite behavior is lost in todays world, too bad.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[ODST 5723]

Lumikki wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Opt out requires you know the option exist, but if don't know then how you know to use you options at all. You are subject of study as long you don't know it or you accept to be part of it after you know the option, that's everyones choise. Problem isn't having option, but knowing that option exist.

The burden falls upon the user. Sorry, you don't quite grasp what you're talking about. Go away, do some reading and come back more informed please.

Legaly company is covered because EULA. How ever, morality they are using players, because company knows that most people don't read eula or find that option. So, they do leagaly right thing, but they do not do right thing what should have been just asking permission or telling people so that every they player would actually know it. It's the difference between right thing to do and legaly cover they own ass.

My moral framework doesn't show me an issue with this particular scenario.  In my opinion you're severely overreacting.  Are you against Bungie's stat tracking as well?

[SomeBug]

Lumikki wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I do understand what you're saying, I just think you're wrong simply because it's not another person's responsibility to hold your hand and point things out to you.

Sorry, but I'm not sure do you really understand what I'm talking. I'm talking the difference like this example.

You ring someones door bell and when door opens, you say "Hi" and walk in or when door opens you wait for person who opened the door to say "Hi, come in" or if there is no invitation to come in, then you say "Can I come in?". That's what I'm talking. It's about stoping and doing the polite behavior, not just do what ever you self want the way you want.

What you talk is blame everyone else if they don't read the fine print, when you self know that allmost no-one never reads it. It's about using others little rude ways and hiding behind laws, than do the polite way and just ask it in right way.

I ques this kind of polite behavior is lost in todays world, too bad.

You sound like a child. Have you not experienced the real world ever in your life? This is ridiculous. This thread is over, there's nothing to discuss with such an insignificant, improbable and irrelevant topic - even more so with people who are completely inflexible on their stupid opinions based on misinformation and naive idealism.

Now that's a lot of five-dollar words.

[Lumikki]

ODST 5723 wrote...

My moral framework doesn't show me an issue with this particular scenario.  In my opinion you're severely overreacting.  Are you against Bungie's stat tracking as well?

Why would you think I'm agaist stat tracking in general?

This isn't about the data, it's about asking player permission and not try to hide it in eula, when company knows people don't read it. it's about giving nice options to choose, but without reading eula most people never know this choise even exist or even that data collecting is there. How you make a choise when you don't know about it existen.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 septembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Chuvvy]

I skip some convos after I've done a few playthroughs.

[Chuvvy]

Lumikki wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

My moral framework doesn't show me an issue with this particular scenario.  In my opinion you're severely overreacting.  Are you against Bungie's stat tracking as well?

Why would you think I'm agaist stat tracking in general?

This isn't about the data, it's about asking player permission and try to hide in eula, when company knows people don't read it.

You do realize you can disable it in the options menu, right?

[Lumikki]

Slidell505 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

My moral framework doesn't show me an issue with this particular scenario.  In my opinion you're severely overreacting.  Are you against Bungie's stat tracking as well?

Why would you think I'm agaist stat tracking in general?

This isn't about the data, it's about asking player permission and try to hide in eula, when company knows people don't read it.

You do realize you can disable it in the options menu, right?

Yes, but how would I know there is something to disable if you don't tell me about it?
Do, you read eula every time or do you browse all options to find what's there, just in case you need to disable something.

This is not about me, my game computer doesn't even have active internet connection. This is about those 100000's of Bioware players who never read Eula or come to this forum or browse all games options. So, they have no clue that this feature even exists and some may like it, but some may not.  But it should be those players choise to make, but they can't make choises what they don't know even exist. Blaming these players is not the answer, right answer is that Biowares should have asked this from players when game was installed. That's polite thing to do.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 septembre 2010 - 07:30 .

[Xeranx]

Lumikki wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

My moral framework doesn't show me an issue with this particular scenario.  In my opinion you're severely overreacting.  Are you against Bungie's stat tracking as well?

Why would you think I'm agaist stat tracking in general?

This isn't about the data, it's about asking player permission and try to hide in eula, when company knows people don't read it.

You do realize you can disable it in the options menu, right?

Yes, but how would I know there is something to disable if you don't tell me about it?
Do, you read eula every time or do you browse all options to find what's there, just in case you need to disable something.

This is not about me, my game computer doesn't even have active internet connection. This is about those 100000's of Bioware players who never read Eula or come to this forum or browse all games options. So, they have no clue that this feature even exists and some may like it, but some may not.  But it should be those players choise to make, but they can't make choises what they don't know even exist. Blaming these players is not the answer, right answer is that Biowares should have asked this from players when game was installed. That's polite thing to do.

I'm saying it again.  I knew they were tracking stuff we did in game and I never read the EULA and I"m pretty sure I didn't pay for the game yet when I found out.  Hopefully I don't suffer from last post on page syndrome (lpps).

[Whatever42]

Google has logged every search I do using their engine. That is a lot more invasive that Bioware anonymously logging how often I hit the space bar on dialogues. I don't know about you, but being a somewhat young man, I've entered some interesting search terms.

[Collider]

Bioware should use player data to keep things in perspective, but not be tethered by it. That said, I'm not exactly worried.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I wonder how they determined whether a convo was skipped.

I routinely skipped ahead once I'd read a line; I didn't always need to hear the voice-over.

[Spartas Husky]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I wonder how they determined whether a convo was skipped.
I routinely skipped ahead once I'd read a line; I didn't always need to hear the voice-over.

They are gathering numbers and reading it according not to what they actually mean, but to what they want to get out of it.

"only 15% skipped conversations"... means people like dialogue.

but they dont want to waste money on it, so they'll asume 15% is too many people to waste time on certain dialogues.

Most people played soldier. Why?, is it good, or bad?

Well, we'll just concentrate in more of a cod style of game.

What the stats actually mean is not that the soldier is the best class, but rather the other classes are severely limited

Like comparing. What is the best soldier, a Grunt, or an combat engineer..... a combat engineer, because the combat engineer, not only has the exact same weaponry, and training as a normal soldier, but has knwoledge on a particular field.

They'll take those numbers and see in them what theyw ant to see.

[clennon8]

I have completed playthroughs for every single class except engineer. I'm sure Engineer is just as good as the others, but Combat Drone just isn't a terribly interesting class ability.



I knew Soldier was the most popular class, but I didn't realize it was more popular than all the others combined. That's ridiculous. Why would you play a game that allows you to have powers, and then select the one class that doesn't have any powers? Seems...lazy. My favorite class is Sentinel.

[Berkilak]

Lumikki wrote...

Miths wrote...

How is this really a privacy issue when the data is sent anonymously and is used to compile general statistics about the game?

Others have no rights to break someones privacy without permission. It doesn't matter what the data is or how it's used. It's breaking the line of privacy. The who is breakign it should allways ask permission. It's not even does the target person care if it's broken or not, it's matter of polite behavior. Meaning, the decission of judgement isn't the side of who does break the privacy, but who's privacy is broken.

But what does it really matter? That data is only going to be used for practical purposes such as website optimization etc. - it's not like the owner is going to start sending you creepy Christmas cards or anything.

Yes, it does matter for some people and no you have no right to make decissions behave of other people, even what ever your own personal opinion is in the matter.

Looks like someone spent an inordinate amount of time with certain asari entertainers.

[Whatever42]

clennon8 wrote...

I have completed playthroughs for every single class except engineer. I'm sure Engineer is just as good as the others, but Combat Drone just isn't a terribly interesting class ability.

I knew Soldier was the most popular class, but I didn't realize it was more popular than all the others combined. That's ridiculous. Why would you play a game that allows you to have powers, and then select the one class that doesn't have any powers? Seems...lazy. My favorite class is Sentinel.

It is lazy. With soldier, you can control the action and direct your party as an afterthought. With other classes, you have to direct your party to strip off shields and armor so you can finally do something useful. It requires more time and a lot more patience.

 A soldier also takes a lot less practice to be good at. A vangaurd or an adept can be played very dynamically but I die way too often. Meanwhile, after playing just a little while with a soldier, I'm running, shooting, and meleeing (just for fun) the crap out of everything and its a blast. And I'm not super squishy and dying with every mistake. Oh, I don't die with other classes either, if I just play super patiently but thats dull. I guess I could take it off insanity and kick ass but that seems like cheating.

[JockBuster]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I wonder how they determined whether a convo was skipped.
I routinely skipped ahead once I'd read a line; I didn't always need to hear the voice-over.

Me too; however, it could mean that people skipped the dialogue on the LEFT, not necessarialy (sp) using the X to speed thru things. It was not explained, just a (meaningless) number (without further reference). And does not cover multiple play throughs.

[desala]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

It is lazy. With soldier, you can control the action and direct your party as an afterthought. With other classes, you have to direct your party to strip off shields and armor so you can finally do something useful. It requires more time and a lot more patience.

 A soldier also takes a lot less practice to be good at. A vangaurd or an adept can be played very dynamically but I die way too often. Meanwhile, after playing just a little while with a soldier, I'm running, shooting, and meleeing (just for fun) the crap out of everything and its a blast.

Yeah, this. 

Did they get any player data from ME1?  I'm curious about what the class distribution change was like.  Soldier in ME1 was pretty dull - just heavy armour, immunity and all the weapons, but there was so much overlap with infiltrators and vanguards that any benefit was pretty minor to the cost of biotic/tech talents.

With ME2 though, it's different - I'm sure anyone who has played it knows what I'm talking about.  It's the class distribution change between the games that will tell how much the new weapon/ammo system matters in the long run: if soldier had been played (much) more than any other class in ME1, then I guess we're all just pushing hot air around because people apparently hate biotics/tech for more fundamental reasons.

Also, it would break my heart and I'd lose all respect in the ME player base.