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Why are there weapon restrictions by class?


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#1
Sylvius the Mad

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From Peter's excellent Q&A thread:

Peter Thomas wrote...

Weapons can only be equipped if you know the style that weapon pertains to.

This strikes me as an unnecessary and wholly arbitrary restriction.

But that can't be it.  There must be some other reason.  So what is it?

Do the classes all have different animation rigs?  This is literally the only possibility that has occurred to me.

#2
Knight Templar_

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Maybe it's a balance issue.

#3
Sylvius the Mad

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Knight Templar wrote...

Maybe it's a balance issue.

But the classes already can't learn the weapon talents for those styles, so they're not going to be effective with them anyway.

#4
Arrtis

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AT LEAST everyone can still wear armors if they have the attribute....I think.

Modifié par Arrtis, 08 septembre 2010 - 06:03 .


#5
Saibh

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Doesn't this just mean you can't use bows now, if you're not an archer? It makes sense you can't use staves.



This probably sucks worse for archers, since evidently they don't have close-quarter combat capabilities anymore.

#6
Sylvius the Mad

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Arrtis wrote...

AT LEAST everyone can still wear armors if they have the attribute....I think.

Peter says that hasn't been determined yet.

I suspect class restrictions on armour won't be necessary given the new Primary Attribute for each class.

#7
wwwwowwww

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It's not much different than it's always been in every RPG I've ever played

#8
Sylvius the Mad

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Saibh wrote...

This probably sucks worse for archers, since evidently they don't have close-quarter combat capabilities anymore.

This is where I used the off-class weapons the most.

If you're focussed on archery, and don't want to spend talent points on melee skills, then it literally doesn't matter what melee weapon you carry for emergencies because you're equally unskilled with all of them.  My Dalish Rogue Archer used a 2H sword, mostly because it looked cool (and it did great backstab damage).

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 08 septembre 2010 - 06:09 .


#9
Sylvius the Mad

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wwwwowwww wrote...

It's not much different than it's always been in every RPG I've ever played

It's a terrible kludge that first ever appeared in CRPGs (nothing stops your tabletop mage from picking up a flair - he'd just be terrible with it).

When DAO didn't do it, I thought we'd finally moved past it, because it's awful.

But apparently it's back.  I really want to know why.

#10
Sylvius the Mad

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Saibh wrote...

Doesn't this just mean you can't use bows now, if you're not an archer?

Yes.  Apparently no Warrior in DA2 can figure out how a bow works.

It makes sense you can't use staves.

As a melee weapon, no, it doesn't make sense at all.

#11
tmp7704

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This strikes me as an unnecessary and wholly arbitrary restriction.

But that can't be it.  There must be some other reason.  So what is it?

Mr.Thomas said (can't be bothered to find the exact post but it's pretty long explanation near the current end of the thread) that they debated either merging the classes or making each of them distinct and made decision to go with the latter. It just seems to be one of consequences of this choice.

#12
St. Victorious

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They already explained that the skill trees for weapons have been divided between warrior and rogue so that those two classes will be more unique from one another. Each class will also support unique battle animations with each. I'm guessing sword&board and two-handed (and I'm hoping crossbow too for range) are now warrior exclusive while duel-wield and bows will be for rogues.

#13
wwwwowwww

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

It's not much different than it's always been in every RPG I've ever played

It's a terrible kludge that first ever appeared in CRPGs (nothing stops your tabletop mage from picking up a flair - he'd just be terrible with it).

When DAO didn't do it, I thought we'd finally moved past it, because it's awful.

But apparently it's back.  I really want to know why.


It's a lot easier to figure out deductions to hit and damage via pen and paper, then it would be to program every varialbe in a computer game I'm sure.
I mage picking up a flail is more likely to knock himself out than hit anything of note. Good way to demonstrate this is take a trip around youtube and see how many tards are knocking themselves out with nunchucks

#14
Sylvius the Mad

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tmp7704 wrote...

Mr.Thomas said (can't be bothered to find the exact post but it's pretty long explanation near the current end of the thread) that they debated either merging the classes or making each of them distinct and made decision to go with the latter. It just seems to be one of consequences of this choice.

Right, and that's why they divided up the combat talent trees.  That makes perfect sense.

But why restrict the weapons themslves?  Again, in DAO they fully intended that Mages would carry staves, but the game allowed them to equip bows or maces or shields as they saw fit.

#15
Sylvius the Mad

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wwwwowwww wrote...

It's a lot easier to figure out deductions to hit and damage via pen and paper, then it would be to program every varialbe in a computer game I'm sure.

That's nonsense.  The primary benefit of putting an RPG in a computer is that the computer can handle all the calculations.

And, again, DAO already did it.

#16
wwwwowwww

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

It's a lot easier to figure out deductions to hit and damage via pen and paper, then it would be to program every varialbe in a computer game I'm sure.

That's nonsense.  The primary benefit of putting an RPG in a computer is that the computer can handle all the calculations.

And, again, DAO already did it.


ok, well then maybe it's going back to the classes being more distinct? I dunno and honestly it's not that big a concern to me

#17
tmp7704

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But why restrict the weapons themslves?  Again, in DAO they fully intended that Mages would carry staves, but the game allowed them to equip bows or maces or shields as they saw fit.

Well, i'm guessing this is to enforce that distinction visually -- after all it goes to the point where the isn't actually "single weapon" style for rogues and warriors, nor melee strikes. According to info we got if you don't equip (second) weapon the game will still draw a default, unselectable one in the character's hand to make them appear as if they are actually using the "combat style" of their class.

#18
TheMadCat

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I always hated that in RPG's, hated it in D&D games and various others that implement it. I doubt it's got anything to do with the animations sense that would be done through the character and not the weapon, though I guess it'd be silly seeing a rogue flipping around with a great sword. Usually it's done to further define the respective classes or force players to "learn" to use weapons. Peter is probably truthful there in that regard.

#19
Sylvius the Mad

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tmp7704 wrote...

Well, i'm guessing this is to enforce that distinction visually -- after all it goes to the point where the isn't actually "single weapon" style for rogues and warriors, nor melee strikes. According to info we got if you don't equip (second) weapon the game will still draw a default, unselectable one in the character's hand to make them appear as if they are actually using the "combat style" of their class.

This is easily the worst news I have heard about DA2.  Nothing else is nearly this bad.

Way to rob us of customisability.

#20
St. Victorious

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Mr.Thomas said (can't be bothered to find the exact post but it's pretty long explanation near the current end of the thread) that they debated either merging the classes or making each of them distinct and made decision to go with the latter. It just seems to be one of consequences of this choice.

Right, and that's why they divided up the combat talent trees.  That makes perfect sense.

But why restrict the weapons themslves?  Again, in DAO they fully intended that Mages would carry staves, but the game allowed them to equip bows or maces or shields as they saw fit.


It makes the classes themselves more unique. Just because they did it in DAO doesn't mean that it's going to be done in DA2. A mage whose never used a mace in his life isn't too likely to pick up a blunt object on a whim. It's just a way of trimming the fat.

#21
Sylvius the Mad

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TheMadCat wrote...

Peter is probably truthful there in that regard.

Peter didn't answer this question.  He wasn't asked this question.

I know why they're restricting weapon talents by class.  I even understand their motives (I don't agree, but I get it).

But restricting the ability even to equip the weapons - that's too far.

#22
Sylvius the Mad

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St. Victorious wrote...

A mage whose never used a mace in his life isn't too likely to pick up a blunt object on a whim.

I don't dispute that it isn't likely.

I do dispute that it's impossible.

It's just a way of trimming the fat.

What fat?  Again, unless they have different animation rigs there's no development cost to allowing anyone to equip any weapon.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 08 septembre 2010 - 06:30 .


#23
wwwwowwww

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Well, i'm guessing this is to enforce that distinction visually -- after all it goes to the point where the isn't actually "single weapon" style for rogues and warriors, nor melee strikes. According to info we got if you don't equip (second) weapon the game will still draw a default, unselectable one in the character's hand to make them appear as if they are actually using the "combat style" of their class.

This is easily the worst news I have heard about DA2.  Nothing else is nearly this bad.

Way to rob us of customisability.


Have you been happy with any news about DA2? I don't think I've ever seen one positive response from you.

#24
Morroian

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But restricting the ability even to equip the weapons - that's too far.


100% agreement.

#25
Sylvius the Mad

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wwwwowwww wrote...

Have you been happy with any news about DA2?

Yes, though that has no bearing on my claim that this is the worst news.