59 réponses à ce sujet

[andymcnish]

OK so I'm only 30 hours or so in, but aren't mages massively overpowered?

I mean they heal, they have awesome crowd control, they have the best aoe and point damage all at range, they can swig mana potions til the cows come home (whilst the warriors and rogues run low on stamina and only have mushrooms unless a mage or bard wants to support them) and if they want to they can turn themselves into melee fighters too.

Unless there are some very magic resistant bosses later in the game, I'm struggling to see their downsides. ANd even then they could just switch to cc of minions and healing/buffs...

OK maybe they can't open locks..

There was a reason that mages in classic RPG's couldn't heal and would die if a melee toon caught up with them and got thru their cc - 'glass cannons'  is what they should be.

By comparison archers are very lame indeed at the moment.

[Dr3xx]

I agree really. I think the most successful groups are 2 mages at least. Personally on my next playthrough I plan to run 3 mages and Shale... just for some easymode.

[summervacation]

Mages do seem to be way more powerful than archers.....

[Dawnhorn]

I completely agree. I'm not done yet, but my main is a mage. The first 20-30 hours on Nightmare Mode were challenging. I was a full Creation/healer build focused on buffs and heals. As soon as I went Arcane Warrior and Alistair finished up his sword/shield and went further into Templar, stuff died and died fast.



They stopped hurting me as much. I didn't use Wynne until I went Arcane Warrior. Alistair and my main can take anything...Wynne is now in there for extreme circumstances and I am using whomever I want in the fourth slot (usually the love interest of Leiliana with a full archer build). It's ridiculous.



I only used Morrigan for a short period due to roleplay reasons, but I can see how she can get insane with efficient tanking efforts.



My main Arcane Warrior can solo a Revenant or a full 10 person group of darkspawn, for instance, by himself on Nightmare Mode!

[Tesslyn]

Well since Circle Mages are by far the best allies with thier only drawback being you only get 12. Presumably they went with the entirely realistic line of thought that if mages were powerful enough to storm heaven at one point then they'd be kind of.. stronger than your average peasant with a sword, or your average (non templar) knight come to that.

[Auraad]

Nope ... not overpowered ... mages are supposted to be powerful ... finally a game where mages get what they deserve: a lot of power, but imprisoned in a tower!

[yohoia]

I completely agree to this and I think it is sad. The most efficient group should be a healer, tank, mage/cc and dps, but as it is you really need three mages and a tank. It is also sad that ranged dps/bow is useless. This should be fixed asap.

[Tesslyn]

yohoia wrote...

I completely agree to this and I think it is sad. The most efficient group should be a healer, tank, mage/cc and dps, but as it is you really need three mages and a tank. It is also sad that ranged dps/bow is useless. This should be fixed asap.

What? You do realize that mages are Healer, CC and DPS, thus having 3 mages and a tank -is- the blasted trinity?

Mages in Dragon Age are all magic users in one class, complaining about them in this way is as logical as complaining you can have a:

Druid, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Shaman party in World of Warcraft, since under DA classification every one of them would be a mage.

[veryalien]

Tesslyn, are you paying attention? Mages are overpowered. Heck most of them are locked up in a tower or hunted down by the Templars.



Of course they have huge weaknesses. If their magical powers are negated by a templar or their mana drained they aren't much use. Unless of course they use forbidden blood magic

[Timortis]

andymcnish wrote...

There was a reason that mages in
classic RPG's couldn't heal and would die if a melee toon caught up
with them and got thru their cc - 'glass cannons'  is what they should
be.

They are glass cannons. Melee have a lot of knockdowns and stuns and Mages have very low physical resistance and defense. Once a melee gets on a Mage, he's pretty much dead.

It's also a flawed argument to say Mages get to do everything at once because of the way the talents in DA work. If you're a healer Mage, you're not the best possible DPS or CCer etc. You get a limited amount of spells, further limited by their cooldowns.

[raedis123]

I ran my group as me (rogue), Alistair, Morrigan, and Wynne.



Fights consisted of luring a group into a chokepoint or to a wall, Morrigan hitting Cone of Cold, Wynne Stonefisting one enemy to shatter while my rogue smashed 2 with Deadly Strike and Flurry. That's 3 enemies instantly out of a fight, not to mention most other enemies at 50% HP since I'd equipped Morrigan with a bunch of +Ice % damage. By the time they unfroze, Cone of Cold would be on it's way to being refreshed.



I put Heal, Rejuvenate, and Regenerate on Morrigan in addition to Wynne having it, and between the two they could keep the entire team at full HP and fully juiced. If things went badly I just threw out a Sleep then a Waking Nightmare.



Even more fun was when I discovered how efficient the Tier 4 mana burn-type spell is. Anytime I encountered a caster boss I could smoke off about half it's HP in a single spell, and render it's magic entirely useless.



Mages are certainly the most powerful characters in the game, and the most flexible. My rogue had a higher percentage of damage than the mages (around 40% of party damage) but that was only possible because of the CC allowing him to keep up backstabs. Without CC, melee bites it rather fast even with high defense and armor.



While I'm not a Pen & Paper player myself, it would be interesting to see the calculations behind mages through the upcoming PnP game.

[Madanial]

It is understandable why mage has more power compare to other classes.In the beginning of the game there's an enchanter told you that how dangerous to being a mage.



But it seems Bioware didn't add that kind of dangerous for mages, so it look like mage quite powerful when we play it.

[Twisterheater]

I played with 3 mages and a tank on normal, and struggled - a lot. Some bosses with 8-10 reloads to beat.



I'm now playing with 2 mages and 2 tanks (sword and board defensive, 2-handed offensive) and the game is a breeze on hard. I even beat the juggernaught armour side-quest revenant on my first attempt, where as I wasn't even able to do it on normal with my 3 mage group.



Mages are powerful, yes, but they are only powerful in the right group. I personally find rogues the most worthless for my tactics and thus I've never used them; otherwise, a warrior and mage are equally important for me.

[Spura]

yohoia wrote...

I completely agree to this and I think it is sad. The most efficient group should be a healer, tank, mage/cc and dps, but as it is you really need three mages and a tank. It is also sad that ranged dps/bow is useless. This should be fixed asap.

How is a group with 2 mages different from that? You said it yourself: a healer and a mage. That's 2 mages in dragon age.

[Cbowsin]

Mages are powerful but are made of tissue. I have not had an encounter yet where if I didn't see the mage it went smoothly. They are KoS. If there is only 1 or 2 then makes a good warhound target and then move on.

[Spura]

they can swig mana potions til the cows come home

I have found a total of 2 mana potions in the last 10 hours of gameplay. I have mana problems every normal encounter.

[Direbrute]

It's hard to say they're overpowered because it's a single player game, but yes, they do seem to be the most powerful class to play. My mage is at the point where I almost don't even need a tank in non-Boss battles. Just CC and AoE them all to death.

[andymcnish]

Well 'overpowered' is probably the wrong word as yes it's only a 1 player game.



And I suppose the game is set up with a limited number of mage possibilities unless you spec. them as main characters.



It's just that I seem to spend 3/4 of my time clicking on the mage in combat - there is always something to do and it's usually critical to the encounter. I hardly ever feel that about the thief alongside her.



My current set-up is MC Dwarf shield tank + Dog (mainly used to hunt archers and mages whilst Tank takes the hate)+ Morrigan (who does everything but especially crowd control) + Illiana (specced mainly as archer and some lockpicking skills).



The Tank makes and uses poisons as he has the longest fights.



I know I could gear up Alistair to be tougher than Dog but Dog is low maintenance and quite fun and I will replace him with Shale later on anyway.



Again I could switch in Wynne who would be much stronger than Illiana but as I don's have any issues cutting through the encounters at the moment and I like the extra loot you pick up with a thief in party.

[Obode]

sorry double post, forum lagged it seems..

Modifié par Obode, 11 novembre 2009 - 05:32 .

[Obode]

Timortis wrote...

andymcnish wrote...

There was a reason that mages in
classic RPG's couldn't heal and would die if a melee toon caught up
with them and got thru their cc - 'glass cannons'  is what they should
be.

They are glass cannons. Melee have a lot of knockdowns and stuns and Mages have very low physical resistance and defense. Once a melee gets on a Mage, he's pretty much dead.

It's also a flawed argument to say Mages get to do everything at once because of the way the talents in DA work. If you're a healer Mage, you're not the best possible DPS or CCer etc. You get a limited amount of spells, further limited by their cooldowns.

Glass cannons ? a correctly specced Arcane Warrior [Mage] Can out tank any warrior and still out damage them.

I dont think the balancing is to bad, my main issue with the balance is how poor the bows are, they really cant match any other weapons, especially considering the miss rate.. a high magic mage could easily out dmging them without even using spells.. they should at the very least at rune slots on bow aswell, no one can expect someone to use the special arrows its not worth it to use them.

[Bane]

I don't think they're overpowered at all. Maybe they are compared to mages in other games, but within the context of the Dragon Age world they are what they're supposed to be: powerful and dangerous.

[Tesslyn]

What I meant was it should be obvious why mages are overpowered.. They are the only ones that can wield magic. Buffing up a warrior to the level they can match army annhilation spells is one of the most common lorelols whenever someone tries for 'balance' is a fantasy setting.

For example: Time Stop, an awsome spell but in PC games I can't just walk up to everyone during it and slap cuffs on them or slit thier throars. Anything vulnerable to something like that is dead to a mage that can cast such a spell. Ditto for mass paralyze if you only accept Dragon Age spells.

Modifié par Tesslyn, 11 novembre 2009 - 05:41 .

[Rainen89]

I have to agree. Honestly, once I got past level 10 stuff just died, fast. Heck my main was able to solo brood mother on hard, (granted everyone served as a distraction for all of 10 seconds but still.) Should not be able to happen. I can't honestly see why anyone would want to control anything but a mage. I haven't tried rogue/warrior yet but I can't see how they keep up especially when you're fighting groups of 10+ darkspawn/other and your melee has to do primarily single target damage.

[Rainen89]

Also, and just to counter the person saying "if you're a mage you can't effectively dps." Cast inferno/tempest/death cloud or any variation of that followed up with fireball then use your heals you will be out damaging any warrior/rogue flailing about. Especially since all heals have a lovely little cooldown.

[Ed Mckman]

Personally I think bioware only put rogues into dragon age as utility characters. I have rolled a 2h rogue assassin/duelist, and a bow rogue ranger/bard, and in comparison to a mage or warrior, it is just lack luster. I agree that mages are overpowered but I think it fits well with the lore and circumstances of being a mage, case and point, mages may be killed without second thought if the templar think they are having difficulty during their coming of age.