59 réponses à ce sujet

[Zenthar Aseth]

Dawnhorn wrote...

I completely agree. I'm not done yet, but my main is a mage. The first 20-30 hours on Nightmare Mode were challenging. I was a full Creation/healer build focused on buffs and heals. As soon as I went Arcane Warrior and Alistair finished up his sword/shield and went further into Templar, stuff died and died fast.

They stopped hurting me as much. I didn't use Wynne until I went Arcane Warrior. Alistair and my main can take anything...Wynne is now in there for extreme circumstances and I am using whomever I want in the fourth slot (usually the love interest of Leiliana with a full archer build). It's ridiculous.

I only used Morrigan for a short period due to roleplay reasons, but I can see how she can get insane with efficient tanking efforts.

My main Arcane Warrior can solo a Revenant or a full 10 person group of darkspawn, for instance, by himself on Nightmare Mode!

Sounds good, being able to solo a Revenant on nightmare.. what kind of spells do you have?

[Ed Mckman]

Sorry Double Post, Forums lagged..

Modifié par Ed Mckman, 11 novembre 2009 - 05:49 .

[Tesslyn]

Change the title to 'Magic is overpowered' please because it describes the issue better.

[Tesslyn]

Change the title to 'Magic is overpowered in the Dragon Age Setting ' please because it describes the issue better.

[Volion]

Bane_v2 wrote...

I don't think they're overpowered at all. Maybe they are compared to mages in other games, but within the context of the Dragon Age world they are what they're supposed to be: powerful and dangerous.

I agree, this is not an MMO and every class need not be balanced, Bioware has done it right.


Note: Some of these threads are rather amusing, especially if you check out the player profiles of  the OP and supporters.

[Volion]

Allot of it also depends on the spec, the rogue in my party does amazing damage, especially if I drop the critical hex on the target.

Modifié par Volion, 11 novembre 2009 - 10:31 .

[Nomanking]

y cry?

[tls5669]

Theyre insanely powerful.

Modifié par tls5669, 11 novembre 2009 - 06:10 .

[DigitalForm]

[quote]
I agree, this is not an MMO and every class need not be balanced, Bioware has done it right.
[/quote]


Why not? In an interview they said how the interface was influenced by MMOs. I would like all the characters to be balanced like an MMO so I don't feel worthless playing my rogue. Mage and Tank ALWAYS come, then whoever. Only thing rogues seem to get that others don't is the lock picking (which I think every character should have a way to do). Any reasonable party makeup should work and as a Grey Warden I should not suck becase I picked rogue.







[/quote]

[theczaroftsars]

They are very powerful.

But once my rogue sneaks up on them with master stealth, a little posion, a stealthed backstab, then a strong activated stunning talent (riposte/punisher-can't wait to get it) and they are down. they cannot deal with that much damage plus a serious interruption to their spells, but if a mage gets the first few shots and uses them properly - stun type then curse of mortality then a powerful ranged spell and the target is toast

[Tooplex]

Spura wrote...

they can swig mana potions til the cows come home

I have found a total of 2 mana potions in the last 10 hours of gameplay. I have mana problems every normal encounter.

Circle of Mages Tower - Merchant there who sells unlimited Lyrium dust Buy as much as you can, Stock up on Flasks, Use herbalism to make a **** load. I Thank you very much.

[Raynadon]

Once I got Blizzard, the game got a whole lot easier.

[Merge_Lane]

Mages have always been strong classes if played right because of their magic. A rogue/bard etc will never be as strong because they are not meant for face to face fighting. That is the nature of the character class. If you use a character class as it is intended it can be a force to reckon with but you have to understand that. Seems like folks that make posts that claim as such don't grasp that concept.



Mages don't have the hit points as a warrior so their strength is in crowd control, preventing an enemy from getting close enough to do damage and or using debilitating effects to their favor. They are not meant to take damage or of they do, deflect/null as much as possible hence the low HP.



Much akin to rogues they are not front line class either so using stealth, poison, potions etc is their strong points.



A term that I have seen used and that could apply easily is "glass cannon"



I see threads like this all the time and I am willing to bet that the OP didn't either grasp the character concept early on, or doesn't really understand what it means to play an RPG.

[Komus]

Since BG1, the style of these games has been thus: Fighters have lastability and are THE melee class. Rangers/Rogues have had the option of powerful "glass cannon" ranged attacks or indeed melee, but sacrifice armour for utility. All spellcasters have been the powerhouse of dps and utility - including aoe, cc and st dps - although in this instance they lack utility.

Please remember that this game does not have the character build depth of previous Bioware/Black Isle titles. This is completely understandable. What it does mean is that veterans of the genre are just as out of their depth, but at least the system is simplified. No more creating a scythe weilding fighter with levels of RDD FTW.

The point being that Mages are the aoe/cc kings. Not OP, it is just their perogative. Lots of arcane power means lots of ways to influence the masses, be it with fear or nasty firey-ness.It has always been this way in the DD universe and "Not-DD-Universe-At-All-Honest" universes.

Still they have to wear dresses

[jalford1980]

Mages are very strong, and I run two in my group, by why the hate on the rogues.  Sure they cant do the AOE damage of a mage, but my main(tank) plus the chick rogue, who i havent even speced into DW work great together, esp on bosses.  She has 2 daggers with a bonus to backstab/crit damage and they have runes built into them for damage.  I just let me hit htings with the shield while the rogue sits behind him and backstabs and debuffs.  The mage handles CC and AOEing stuff that isnt near me and the rogue, and wynne heals us up.

Rogues are good fun, and should not be overlooked, just keeping at the enemies back and they do great. 

What i hate is that i never get to use any of my 2h warriors cause i just cant see playing without 2 mages and a rogue(for the lockpicking more than the BS).  Maybe a 2h warrior could still tank i dont know, but i havent tried it.

[Merge_Lane]

I play my main as a rogue, the bard as ranged, Morrigan as ranged, Alistair and Sten are the "tank(s)" and manage to not wipe the whole party.



Komus, since before BG1 it has been like this, such was set with the Pen and paper games of "D-n-D" and similar but most of the younger generation don't grasp that concept. At least for those of use that played RPGs before Video games became the main stream. Though I think we are saying the same thing.



Rogues in this game have utility albeit not as great as they could have. I stack the cunning on my main as a rogue, so he is silver tongued and let him do all the talking as well as lock picking. Especially since early on there are places where you have to have that abilities because you don't have the bard or anyone else such as playing a Noble Human in the castle and when you first get to Ostagar before you get the rogue there.

[BringwinD]

I know for one that mages are overpowered in normal mode, i ran 3 mages and a dw rogue for crits. from lothering onwards. Didn't even bother to spec arcane warrior. triple cone of cold and stonefist with zevran running around backstabbing = lots of shatters. 2 mages is enough to keep any boss locked down frozen or stunned.



Does this happen in nightmare mode as well?

[Lavitage]

Level 2 poison skill is better for AoE damage than any mage spell.

[BringwinD]

the range to throw a flask is too short. i can earthquake + dual infernos without aggroing the mobs.

[_____o_O___]

Yes mages are overpowered with right spells. Hexes maxed out on one at least. Cone of cold, Stonefist, Heals with party heals along with tons of potions. I haved around 100 mana and health potions at level 8 going into mage tower to get third wizard. 3 mages and a rogue are easy on nightmare. Potions are cheap and easy to make. Flasks, lyrium dust, elf roots are easy to get if you know where to buy them from 99 at a time. Uldred was a walk in the park. Get stonefist and cone of cold with just first hex spell wins most fights along with life drain. Heal wizard and hurt hexed enemies. Cone of cold plus stonefist shatters none bosses most of the time. At higher levels with fireballs to chain and storm spells optional you can keep enemies knocked down in such events. I like chain lightning too. Also the cheaper potions are still effective enough at mid to high levels since they feed off of one of a wizards main stats. Also put some points into con to make them a little less mushy. Just remember to spread out so aoe do not effect too many at once and different angles help as well.



Surround a boss from four corners works wonders usually though some battles it will not. First mage in should hit with cone of cold while others hex the tougher enemies like yellows and oranges. Mind blast is nice for time to set up so I usually have that spell to chain as well. Remember to time your chains and everything is very easy usually. Hex spells are very necessary for tougher enemies to get past their resistences enough of the time to not die. Cone of cold and stonefist eliminates weaker enemies quick enough along with a rogue with that riposte manuever so that adds four enemies down quickly usually .

[_____o_O___]

BringwinD wrote...

I know for one that mages are overpowered in normal mode, i ran 3 mages and a dw rogue for crits. from lothering onwards. Didn't even bother to spec arcane warrior. triple cone of cold and stonefist with zevran running around backstabbing = lots of shatters. 2 mages is enough to keep any boss locked down frozen or stunned.

Does this happen in nightmare mode as well?

Yes very much so.  Just need hex spells maxed out for boss fights as it cuts down on necessary consumption of potions. Nothing like a boss missing with melee attacks most of the time, taking crits, and more damage from spells because of hex spells.

Modifié par _____o_O___, 12 novembre 2009 - 08:42 .

[_____o_O___]

jalford1980 wrote...

What i hate is that i never get to use any of my 2h warriors cause i just cant see playing without 2 mages and a rogue(for the lockpicking more than the BS).  Maybe a 2h warrior could still tank i dont know, but i havent tried it.

2h with sunder armor then switch to dual wield with that multi hit talent = good damage

[andymcnish]

Merge_Lane wrote...

Mages have always been strong classes if played right because of their magic. A rogue/bard etc will never be as strong because they are not meant for face to face fighting. That is the nature of the character class. If you use a character class as it is intended it can be a force to reckon with but you have to understand that. Seems like folks that make posts that claim as such don't grasp that concept.

Mages don't have the hit points as a warrior so their strength is in crowd control, preventing an enemy from getting close enough to do damage and or using debilitating effects to their favor. They are not meant to take damage or of they do, deflect/null as much as possible hence the low HP.

Much akin to rogues they are not front line class either so using stealth, poison, potions etc is their strong points.

A term that I have seen used and that could apply easily is "glass cannon"

I see threads like this all the time and I am willing to bet that the OP didn't either grasp the character concept early on, or doesn't really understand what it means to play an RPG.

er LOL - I have been played RPG's/MMO and pen and paper D&D for 28 years thanx, so that bet would be very lost  

Traditionally spellcasters do  have different roles - point damage, aoe damage, damage over time, crowd control, healing, and buffs/debuffs.

But you pick your specialty.

Here even a low level mage (say Morrigan at 8) can have specced 5 (!) crowd control spells, a basic heal, two combos for loads of point damage (including one for decent lifegain) , lightning, unlimited mana (as she makes her own pots), makes health pots for everyone else and gets shapechange (which she never had to use as she has unlimited mana).

As I say, I've been playing these games for 28 years and know overpowered (or unbalanced or whatever) when I see it.

[Spura]

I find mage damage lacking at high levels (though I didn't take any blizzard/tempest/inferno etc).

I mean first frost spell deals about 40 damage at level 1 and then it's 60 at level 15. The damage over the course of 20 levels only improves 60-80% if you put 2 points in magic each levels. There's no innate improvement just with levels.

Melee gets improved damage just by leveling, then extra damage due to increase in attributes.and extra damage due to improved weapons.

I'm not trying to say that mages are not stronger than other 2 classes but they are far from alpha an omega people are trying to picture them here.

I am using melee for my damage and due to mainly CC spells I picked, I find myself unable to do much of anything but heal a lot of boss encounters.

[Curry Noodles]

Late in the game you really need storm of the century or the hexes if you want to keep doing good AoE damage as a mage.



But I do think people underestimate the rogue by quite a bit. I buffed the poison skill with zevran and, really, it's very powerful, particularly for rogues who have momentum. I was impressed, anyway.