332 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

@Siven80 - That seems to be what she's having trouble with...Is differentiating between what is fact and opinion....Which, as someone else pointed out, is unfortunately becoming very common on these boards of late.

[Monica83]

I never sayd this a bad game... The real question is. It will be a great roleplay game like DAO? Well i think not... For what i read on bioware declaration.. RPG exist much more times before bioware so what is a RPG so isn't a think that bioware can say..Well they are fact... if in a game some feature are present and in a sequel not.. Its a stepback the game can be beautyfull how you want.. But this lack of features is a stepback.. When i come in the DA community i joined it because dragon age is a R P G and if dragon age turns in something else.. well its a stepback.. An RPG must give roleplaibility to the people that play with it.. If an Rpg cut down roleplayability for become more action oriented its a stepback.. Mass effect 2 is a good game.. With a mmmh decent story... Better the first one ofcourse..

But in fact.. Mass Effect 2 have no much things like an rpg.. So i really hope that Dragon age don't follows the same way..

[Aradace]

Monica83 wrote...

I never sayd this a bad game... The real question is. It will be a great roleplay game like DAO? Well i think not... For what i read on bioware declaration.. RPG exist much more times before bioware so what is a RPG so isn't a think that bioware can say..Well they are fact... if in a game some feature are present and in a sequel not.. Its a stepback the game can be beautyfull how you want.. But this lack of features is a stepback.. When i come in the DA community i joined it because dragon age is a R P G and if dragon age turns in something else.. well its a stepback.. An RPG must give roleplaibility to the people that play with it.. If an Rpg cut down roleplayability for become more action oriented its a stepback.. Mass effect 2 is a good game.. With a mmmh decent story... Better the first one ofcourse..
But in fact.. Mass Effect 2 have no much things like an rpg.. So i really hope that Dragon age don't follows the same way..

Uh huh...and the words "Action RPG" have already been used a few times to describe the new direction of DA2.  But, yet again, I have to point out that EA/BIOWARE wants to take the franchise in this new direction and ultimately its what EA/BIOWARE wants, not the consumer.  Believe it or not, change can be a good thing....Give it a shot sometime.  If you dont like the changes being made....dont....buy....the...game.  Really, seriously, it's that simple.  No one's going to care what you decide either way.

Modifié par Aradace, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:14 .

[Monica83]

Well i have right to express what i think no matter if you disagree with that.. If you don't like i express may point of wiew stop to reply and go in another thread.. I don't know whats your problem im only express what i think ..



For me the best rpg games are:

Baldur's gate,Baldur's gate 2,icewind dale,icewind dale 2,Planescape torment,Neverwinter nights,Neverwinter nights 2 ((the base story is not that greate but mask of the betrayer rocks)).. The withcer (A very well made combination of action and rpg with a nice world to play and cute sidequest)

[The Masked Rog]

Monica83 wrote...

Well i have right to express what i think no matter if you disagree with that.. If you don't like i express may point of wiew stop to reply and go in another thread.. I don't know whats your problem im only express what i think ..

For me the best rpg games are:
Baldur's gate,Baldur's gate 2,icewind dale,icewind dale 2,Planescape torment,Neverwinter nights,Neverwinter nights 2 ((the base story is not that greate but mask of the betrayer rocks)).. The withcer (A very well made combination of action and rpg with a nice world to play and cute sidequest)

The witcher is a fast-twitch action rpg with a good story. If you liked the witcher I think you'll like dragon age 2.

[Monica83]

Maybe but the witcher is born to be in that way so no stepbacks if the witcher two are a nice combination of roleplay and action.. DA is born to be a true Rpg.. I Say i'm not aganist changes if those don't affect the roleplayability of a title.. But what i read seems more an Rpg with static system of classes...

Example:

Why i can't be a warrior faster and with light armor? Why im forced to be a spartan type muscolar one?

And don't tell me bioware have different ideas of what is a rogue.. You just must open a dictionary and look the word to know what is a rougue.. classes name are not only a simple name.. In a true rpg they reflect your way of life.. So if i want create a character and not to be a Rogue why a warrior can't know how to use dual sword or a bow?... Its stupid really really really stupid... And in roleplayability terms don't exist any valid explanation for that LOL! If bioware make DA2 with this mode of thinking im very worried about what type of RPG dragon age 2 will be!

[Siven80]

Everyones entitled to their opnions and yours is as valid as anyones, just stop trying to pass them off as fact.

I loved Witcher also, infact just finished again the other day.

The fact that DA2 only has a human lead doesnt make it less of an RPG. Id rather play an RPG with voiced lead rather than a choice of 3 different mute races again. I have DAO for that. Still a great game i will play after DA2 trelease
You still have options, still have 3 classes with 6 talent trees each (From new Q&A  sticky) meaning more options. Still have different dialogue options.

I will admit to being slightly worried that we may not be able to have 2 weapon sets like DAO ( I like to have a bow as secondary weapon with my warriors) , and im not keen that we cant use a specific weapon unless we have a wepon tree for it,  but aslong as the game plays well i'll live with it.

Modifié par Siven80, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Lumikki]

You aren't afraid that you don't like DA2, You are angry because they limited some options out. Roleplaying in games is wider consept than just traditional RPG. Yes, DAO is just about traditional RPG.

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[Shadow_broker]

Mass effect 2>1

Thats a fact

[The Masked Rog]

Monica83 wrote...

Maybe but the witcher is born to be in that way so no stepbacks if the witcher two are a nice combination of roleplay and action.. DA is born to be a true Rpg.. I Say i'm not aganist changes if those don't affect the roleplayability of a title.. But what i read seems more an Rpg with static system of classes...
Example:
Why i can't be a warrior faster and with light armor? Why im forced to be a spartan type muscolar one?
And don't tell me bioware have different ideas of what is a rogue.. You just must open a dictionary and look the word to know what is a rougue.. classes name are not only a simple name.. In a true rpg they reflect your way of life.. So if i want create a character and not to be a Rogue why a warrior can't know how to use dual sword or a bow?... Its stupid really really really stupid... And in roleplayability terms don't exist any valid explanation for that LOL! If bioware make DA2 with this mode of thinking im very worried about what type of RPG dragon age 2 will be!

That's a bit where opinion comes in play. See, no two people have the exact same definition of a roleplaying game. A dev has specified however that by investing more points in strength than dexterity you can indeed have a proto-warrior rogue dual-wielding. I like hey are giveing each class more pronounced differences, as the Warrior and the Rogue in dragon age where pretty much the same. The separation between classes should also allow for some pretty cool animations, personalizing the experience to your class. Meaning no more rogues attacking the exact same way as warriors.

Modifié par The Masked Rog, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:39 .

[Monica83]

Thanks Siven this is a nice post.. i liked it

Yes lumi im a bit angry i must to admit that.. But most worried about the dragon age future.. It's like of what happened in the change of 3ed and 4ed of dungeon and dragon.. I'm worried that dragon age change things in a similiar mode.. When gameplay rules begins to conflict with roleplayability its very sad to assist..I have also a bad experience with EA.. The new make it simple.. limit choice decision they maded.. Ruins many games like sim city for example.. Now bioware are under EA and i worried that they begins to make less deep games with limited choice for the masses..

[AlanC9]

Monica83 wrote...

Its soo illogical want's roleplayability from a RPG game? Those are RPG "Role Playng Game" is that hard to understeand? If you cut down roleplaybility from an RPG game for action and things like a writed bedore.

Again, you miss the point. There's nothing announced about DA2 that will make it less of an RPG. It may make it less of the kind of RPG that you like, but that's something else entirely. For instance, a protagonist with a defined background is common to many RPGs that are commonly held to be among the greatest ever made, such as Fallout and Planescape: Torment. (Ye gods -- I'll be delivering this lecture forever, won't I.)

Incidentally, "roleplayability" isn't an accepted word in English. It probably should be, though.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[Monica83]

Well alan is hard to me express my self in a language different from my.. I'm sorry about that ill try.. I'm italian i know a bit of english but i must improve that..Sorry again

[AlanC9]

Monica83 wrote...
And don't tell me bioware have different ideas of what is a rogue.. You just must open a dictionary and look the word to know what is a rougue.. classes name are not only a simple name.. In a true rpg they reflect your way of life.. So if i want create a character and not to be a Rogue why a warrior can't know how to use dual sword or a bow?...

Even by your standards this is incoherent. You say that classes reflect your way of life, but also that you con't want classes to determine how your character behaves. Pick one

How come you're always hitting the period key multiple times?

[AlanC9]

Didn't mean to lecture you about English. Just pointing something out so you can get better at it.

[The Masked Rog]

jonv1234 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Monica83 wrote...
And don't tell me bioware have different ideas of what is a rogue.. You just must open a dictionary and look the word to know what is a rougue.. classes name are not only a simple name.. In a true rpg they reflect your way of life.. So if i want create a character and not to be a Rogue why a warrior can't know how to use dual sword or a bow?...

Even by your standards this is incoherent. You say that classes reflect your way of life, but also that you con't want classes to determine how your character behaves. Pick one

How come you're always hitting the period key multiple times?

just a fun fact the series of dots '...' is an accepted punctuation mark called an ellipsis. Good in many languages.

It isn't in english? Now that's news, I must be careful not to use it many times here.
The op could use reading this: click here

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Remember,  Downs Paradox is a paradox because people do vote.

Downs Paradox is not a paradox unless you presuppose that people are rational.

If anything, Downs demonstrates that people are not.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Aradace wrote...

My only arguement is that based off of RPGs made within the last 7 years, there is a list (a substantial one at that) of RPGs that are 30 hours and UNDER and most of them were damn good RPGs in my opinion.

I can't even name 10 RPGs made in the past 7 years.

Aradace wrote...

Ok...so here's my list...AGAIN lol.

1-7: The .//hack series (but when compounded they do equal over 30 hours but that doesnt count as we're counting individual titles. Each one of those is around 20-25 hrs) (First 4 games are 2003-2004 G.U. is 06-07)

8.) Atlier Iris '05
9.) Atlier Iris 2 '06
10.) Atlier Iris 3 '07
11.) BG: Dark Alliance '01 (So we may not count this one)
12.) BG: Dark Alliance 2 (Completed both of these in UNDER 30 hours) '04
13.) Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter '03
14.) Champions of Norrath '04
15.) Champions of Norrath 2: Return to Arms '05
16.) Digital Devil Saga '05
17.) Digital Devil Saga 2 '05
18.) Grandia 2 '02
19.) Grandia 3 '06
20.) Grandia Extreme '02
21.) Kingdom Hearts '02
22.) Kingdom Hearts 2 '06
23.) Kingdom Hearts Re-chain of Memories '08
24.) Legend of Legia 2: Duel Saga '02
25.) Lord of the Rings: The Third Age '04
26.) MS Saga: A New Dawn '06
27.) Shadow Hearts '04
28.) Shadow Hearts From the New World '06
29.) Shin Megami Tensai: Devil Summoner '06
30.) Shin Megami Tensai: Nocturne '04
31.) Suikoden 3 (The only one in the series that I finished UNDER 30 hours lol) '03 I think
32.) Wild Arms 3 '02
33.) Wild Arms 4 '06
34.) Wild Arms 5 '07
36.) Wild Arms Alter Code F '05
37.) Fable 2 '08
38.) Alpha Protocol (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol) '10
39.) Magna Carta 2 07 or '08 I dont remember
40.) Infinite Undiscovery '08
41.) White Knight Chronicles ''07 or '08

I still can't name 10 RPGs made in the past 7 years.

And that's all the ones I can think of atm...Remember, when comprising your list that we're NOT talking within the past 10-20 years

Why not, though?  Your 7 year threshhold seems arbitrary.

I would even limit it to 20 years.  The earliest CRPG I've played - Oubliette - was released 33 years ago (and it wasn't especially large, though it also didn't have an ending, so you can't really measure its length).

[Lumikki]

Monica83 wrote...

Thanks Siven this is a nice post.. i liked it
Yes lumi im a bit angry i must to admit that.. But most worried about the dragon age future.. It's like of what happened in the change of 3ed and 4ed of dungeon and dragon.. I'm worried that dragon age change things in a similiar mode.. When gameplay rules begins to conflict with roleplayability its very sad to assist..I have also a bad experience with EA.. The new make it simple.. limit choice decision they maded.. Ruins many games like sim city for example.. Now bioware are under EA and i worried that they begins to make less deep games with limited choice for the masses..

It's very hard to know what future will bring, but most time it's not what people expected.

I know what you mean and I do understand, I was in same postion in maybe 5 years ago with mmorpgs. Until I finally just admid I had to let it go. It's not easy thing to do, but it did give me some peace. My point is what ever will happen in future is unavoidable. Meaning what ever you say here in forum or do, it will not change the road where RPG is going or Bioware, what ever it is. Yes, it's hard to stay calm and just watch direction what you love get maybe changed. I'm not sure will it be good or bad, but what ever it is, it will happen.

Now some people thinks that at least we should say how we feel about these changes, so that game developers know them. Maybe so, but in the end it has no affect to future, most what it can do is just delay it to happen, but in the end the change will happen anyway. Why it happen? Hard to say, I think it's just technology progress and people around the world who change slowly and cause everyting shift in some direction. That does not mean history is forgoten, but slowly it will also become past.

Maybe I have lived too long and seen too many things changed. But geting over that pain of change is hard thing to do and I think only time will make it happen. Do, I like the changed what Bioware has planed for DA2. I think the gameplay will be interesting and colorful, but I'm not so sure I like all these limits. Sure, I understand it, it's about how much something cost to make and is something really worth of effort. I think they look player stats from DAO what they have collected and notice that most players play human and deside other races aren't really that popular, so why waste money for something so rare. As for warrior changes, I think they are just cost efficient way to deal visually better animations, what cost so much to make. So cutting some extra, they can make the rest of the game more visual dashing for players. Of course players like me thinks, that's not what RPG really is. Maybe it isn't, but it's direction what sells games. I'm not sure is it worth of it, when you value freedom vs visual impression. But it will happen anyway.

In my opinion it's better do soft push in right direction than forcefully limits players possibilities. Mostly because in the end it's about players enjoyment, not about forcing players doing it in way it's directed (design).

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 septembre 2010 - 11:08 .

[Merced256]

Bioware didn't pioneer making a FPS and tacking on worthless skills/passive bonuses. By that logic Jedi Outcast or was it Jedi academy was just as much an RPG in that regard. Hell, to be honest there are better FPSes out there with better stories than mass effect. The only novel thing bioware did was add both of those elements in, mix in some dialog and have squadmates. Woohoo. Hell can you even have a convo with a squadmate while on a mission?

[Monica83]

Well we must whait and see.. If really hope this DA2 become a nice title.. As a long the story is nice and character and dialogues are deep.. Im not much pleased to the distint class for me they can be better things like add more ability or also add new weapons and items for the rougue class.. It's a way better then cut half ability at the warrior.. maybe this is explanable in terms of game play but in terms of roleplay don't have any sense... For example D&D3.5 allows you to make more distinct type of warrior.. The dual one fast and skilled in dextrity or the heavy one with full plate sword and shield or the two handed one that sacrifice to don't have a shield but brokes evrything with their critical hits.. A rogue in D&D have many ways to be different too.. And all classes are distinct whitout be static.. Now this is dragon age but in terms of gameplay and roleplay if you follow the same example of D&D3.5 you can make distinct classes whitout let them static.. Static classes are distinct yes but they finish to limit the roleplay because you can't do much you are forced to play with predefined (sorry if the word isn't correc) class so you have much less opportunity to customize your character..

[In Exile]

Merced256 wrote...
The only novel thing bioware did was add both of those elements in, mix in some dialog and have squadmates. Woohoo. Hell can you even have a convo with a squadmate while on a mission?

Woohoo is right. What did Half-Life do again? Make a fancier environment in an FPS and focus on a more overarching atmosphere for a single player experience? Just like DA:O. Tact a cheap MMO-style combat onto the dialogue system from KoTOR; woohoo.

Being a hater is hard work, eh brosky?

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Remember,  Downs Paradox is a paradox because people do vote.

Downs Paradox is not a paradox unless you presuppose that people are rational.

If anything, Downs demonstrates that people are not.

Of course. Since rationality in this context leads to demonstrably worse outcomes --  irrational folks will be able to organize better and thus get better outcomes --  I suppose you could make a case that humans are irrational because there's selection pressure against perfect rationality.