332 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Wyndham711 wrote...
I'm sure pretty much no one votes if they don't feel it benefits them in some way. Say carrying the torch for idea that your vote might just be the one that tips the scales, social acception, the satisfaction gained by keeping up to one's principles/civic duties, etc.

I just kind of hate the "I'm too smart to value voting" attitude. It's patently inaccurate. In fact, it's unintelligent. The value and weight of a vote is definitive and quantifiable, even for a losing vote. It's just very small.
<_<

[Aradace]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
The marginal impact of a single vote is effectively zero, so there's no reason for you (an individual) ever to vote unless you derive some other benefit from it.

Sometimes the "logical" nominalizations you make are just plain wrong...

I like to call it "stark reality" lol.  People dilude (spelling?) themselves into thinking that they are actually making an impact by complaining about something when in reality, it's making a hell of a less impact than they think it is.

(this applies only to the voting process in the USA as I am not familar with the details of voting practices elsewhere)
1. Definitively, a vote for the party that wins is one part of the whole that led to that victory. It can be nominalized as a small fraction of that whole, but, as it is effectively equal to all other small fractions that similarly occured within the same state, to remove it would be equivilant to removing all such votes and this would lead to the definitive loss of that party. As a fraction of the whole it is necessary by it's exact proportionality to the whole for victory of that party.
2. If the vote is for the losing party, the electoral college system nominalizes the effectiveness of that vote to zero for the determination of the election results. However, even in this case the vote carries weight in future, and sometimes even current, political policies and manuvering. It remains a portion of the statistics, by it's exact proportionality to the total number of votes, that is used to help analyzie results and create future planning.

A vote always carries some weight.

That's well and good...except for this is a business....and not an actual vote.  What most of us fail to realize is that we (here on the forums) are but a drop in the proverbial bucket to the actual fan base.  I assure you (based off of the ME2 release line at my local gamestop alone) that there are MANY others (many of which I spoke in in said line waiting at midnight lol) who dont even come to these forums simply to avoid this kind of banter that we put out.  Because of that, a good portion of those people, if not most, that havent been in this as neck deep as we all have are going to buy the game simply out of principle....Hence why complaining about it here and "speaking with your wallet" really isnt going to do anything other than make the person "speaking with their wallet" feel better.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

1. Definitively, a vote for the party that wins is one part of the whole that led to that victory.

If you take that one vote away they still win.  It had no material effect.

2. If the vote is for the losing party, the electoral college system nominalizes the effectiveness of that vote to zero for the determination of the election results. However, even in this case the vote carries weight in future, and sometimes even current, political policies and manuvering. It remains a portion of the statistics, by it's exact proportionality to the total number of votes, that is used to help analyzie results and create future planning.

But again, removing a single vote from tens of thousands has no material effect on that political manoeuvring.

A vote always carries some weight.

Votes carry weight.  A vote does not.

People like to think they're part of some great whole and they're working together to get something done, but what they don't realise is that their individual presence as part of that whole doesn't matter at all.

[Aradace]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...
I'm sure pretty much no one votes if they don't feel it benefits them in some way. Say carrying the torch for idea that your vote might just be the one that tips the scales, social acception, the satisfaction gained by keeping up to one's principles/civic duties, etc.

I just kind of hate the "I'm too smart to value voting" attitude. It's patently inaccurate. In fact, it's unintelligent. The value and weight of a vote is definitive and quantifiable, even for a losing vote. It's just very small.
<_<

Uh huh....and your "losing vote" isnt going to accomplish anything now is it? Not in the grander scheme of things no. 

[the_one_54321]

A full bucket is made up of drops.

Optimization means trying to not marginalize as many of those drops as possible. What can you do to keep some drops while losing as few as possible of some other drops. The devil is in the details. Profitable companies don't arbitrarily sacrifice customers based on convenience.

All market data is useful market data. Even if it's value is simply to determine that some of the market share must be marginalized.

[Aradace]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

1. Definitively, a vote for the party that wins is one part of the whole that led to that victory.

If you take that one vote away they still win.  It had no material effect.

2. If the vote is for the losing party, the electoral college system nominalizes the effectiveness of that vote to zero for the determination of the election results. However, even in this case the vote carries weight in future, and sometimes even current, political policies and manuvering. It remains a portion of the statistics, by it's exact proportionality to the total number of votes, that is used to help analyzie results and create future planning.

But again, removing a single vote from tens of thousands has no material effect on that political manoeuvring.

A vote always carries some weight.

Votes carry weight.  A vote does not.

People like to think they're part of some great whole and they're working together to get something done, but what they don't realise is that their individual presence as part of that whole doesn't matter at all.

Keep talking like that Sylvius and you might be my new hero lol....The point is, there isnt enough people AGAINST the idea of where DA2 is going so ultimately, until there is, why even bother complaining about a game that isnt even playable yet?

[Aradace]

the_one_54321 wrote...

A full bucket is made up of drops.
Optimization means trying to not marginalize as many of those drops as possible. What can you do to keep some drops while losing as few as possible of some other drops. The devil is in the details. Profitable companies don't arbitrarily sacrifice customers based on convenience.
All market data is useful market data. Even if it's value is simply to determine that some of the market share must be marginalized.

And what you're basing this off of is that there is enough of you (people complaining about DA2's direction) for that to actually matter when in "stark reality" there isnt.  So your point in that regard is kind of moot.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

It's just very small.

Yes.  It is so small that it is not materially different from zero.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

A full bucket is made up of drops.

Yes it is.  But whatever that bucket is for, does the addition or subtraction of a single drop make enough difference for anyone to care about it?

Incidentally, I vote because it is fun.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 08 septembre 2010 - 07:36 .

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
1. Definitively, a vote for the party that wins is one part of the whole that led to that victory.

If you take that one vote away they still win.  It had no material effect.

One vote is equivilant to any other vote for the same candidate. Vote == Vote. To remove one is equivilant to removing any other. So you cannot marginalize them in that way. To do so is definitvely a logical falacy.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
2. If the vote is for the losing party, the electoral college system nominalizes the effectiveness of that vote to zero for the determination of the election results. However, even in this case the vote carries weight in future, and sometimes even current, political policies and manuvering. It remains a portion of the statistics, by it's exact proportionality to the total number of votes, that is used to help analyzie results and create future planning.

But again, removing a single vote from tens of thousands has no material effect on that political manoeuvring.

Read above.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
A vote always carries some weight.

Votes carry weight.  A vote does not.

For someone who values strict logical interpretation all the time, you're using some seriously broad  conjecture here. Read above.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
People like to think they're part of some great whole and they're working together to get something done, but what they don't realise is that their individual presence as part of that whole doesn't matter at all.

In this case treat every person that participates as a "1" in a binary summation. Every "1" has a value, however small. Again, read above.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 08 septembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
It's just very small.

Yes.  It is so small that it is not materially different from zero.

Flat out inaccurate. A person can only be marginalized ot zero when the system (such as the electoral collage) specifically renders it so. And even in those cases, as I pointed out earlier, statistical data cannot be marginalized.

[Aradace]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

A full bucket is made up of drops.

Yes it is.  But whatever that bucket is for, does the addition or subtraction of a single drop make enough difference for anyone to care about it?

Incidentally, I vote because it is fun.

The thing is Sylvius, some people live in this delusional fantasy world where they think everything they do matters...When in reality, it's more or less spot on as to how you have been putting it.  Voices, drops, whatever the metaphor, they simply do not matter until there is enough to fill said metaphorical bucket.  And the point is, there current ISNT enough to fill said bucket and is highly improbable that there ever will be.

[Monica83]

Well noone is voting here guys... As i said i still hope they making things nice i dont like what i read and i hate to see a beautyfull title like dragon age become and dragon effect if this don't affect the story i will buy it hoping something better for the future... noone is voting lol... It's only a reality if you dont like something you dont buy it yes? yes of course! And please try to stay in topic we are discussing about what we think about the game..

[the_one_54321]

Aradace wrote...
The thing is Sylvius, some people live in this delusional fantasy world where they think everything they do matters...

Everything you do impacts everything around you. You're cinicism is reducing that effect to zero just because it is often very small. The world works in summations, and without individuals the sumations don't exist. Therefore the individuals matter. Your marginalization is just plain inaccuarate.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

One vote is equivilant to any other vote for the same candidate. Vote == Vote. To remove one is equivilant to removing any other.

Yes.  Any single vote.

So you cannot marginalize them in that way. To do so is definitvely a logical falacy.

No it isn't.  That's how marginality works.

For someone who values strict logical interpretation all the time, you're using some seriously broad  conjecture here. Read above.

Work it out.  Look at any past electoral result and remove a single vote anywhere.  What happens?

Nothing happens.  The margin of error in the vote count is vastly larger than one vote.   The effect of a single vote isn't just small.  It's immeasurably small.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Aradace wrote...

The thing is Sylvius, some people live in this delusional fantasy world where they think everything they do matters...When in reality, it's more or less spot on as to how you have been putting it.  Voices, drops, whatever the metaphor, they simply do not matter until there is enough to fill said metaphorical bucket.  And the point is, there current ISNT enough to fill said bucket and is highly improbable that there ever will be.

And more importantly, whether there is enough to fill the bucket is unaffected by any one drop.

[Mehow_pwn]

Your not alone!

I feel the same way... with this and fable 3...and 4 of my friends do aswell.. it really does suck ,but developers don't listen to people anymore(least not bioware).

Modifié par Mehow_pwn, 08 septembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I just kind of hate the "I'm too smart to value voting" attitude. It's patently inaccurate. In fact, it's unintelligent. The value and weight of a vote is definitive and quantifiable, even for a losing vote. It's just very small.

I can quantify the charge of a single electron, too.  That doesn't mean that its absence will cause the lights to go out.

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That's how marginality works.

No, it's not. This isn't even a matter of difference in logical interpretation this time. This time, you're just plain wrong in what you're saying. Something can be conceptually marginalized (note that in this case we talking about strict sumation values, not business decisions) when it can be shown to have a zero equivilant effect. A single vote for a winning candiate has a non-zero eqivilant effect. A vote for a losing candidate is rendered to have a zero eqivilant effect. But even a vote for a losing candidate has a non-zero eqivilant effect in future statistical evaluations.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Look at any past electoral result and remove a single vote anywhere.  What happens?

Treating one vote as separate from the others is an analytical error. You cannot treat them as separte from each other because they are definitively eqivilant to each other. Vote == Vote.

[Aradace]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Aradace wrote...
The thing is Sylvius, some people live in this delusional fantasy world where they think everything they do matters...

Everything you do impacts everything around you. You're cinicism is reducing that effect to zero just because it is often very small. The world works in summations, and without individuals the sumations don't exist. Therefore the individuals matter. Your marginalization is just plain inaccuarate.

Let me know how innacurate it is friend when BioWare essentially gives you (the complainers) the finger and goes ahead with where they are taking the franchise anyway (which is highly likely btw).  The individual in the grander scheme of things is nill.....next to nothing....Until there are more individuals to fill the "bucket".  Again, in this case that Im pointing out, is pointless because there ISNT and WONT be enough of you to actually sway where the franchise is going either way and that is essentially my point.  Sub point being with that being that case, why even bother complaining when ultimately it doesnt matter?

[Aradace]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Aradace wrote...

The thing is Sylvius, some people live in this delusional fantasy world where they think everything they do matters...When in reality, it's more or less spot on as to how you have been putting it.  Voices, drops, whatever the metaphor, they simply do not matter until there is enough to fill said metaphorical bucket.  And the point is, there current ISNT enough to fill said bucket and is highly improbable that there ever will be.

And more importantly, whether there is enough to fill the bucket is unaffected by any one drop.

precisely....bottom line lol

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Treating one vote as separate from the others is an analytical error. You cannot treat them as separte from each other because they are definitively eqivilant to each other. Vote == Vote.

I'm not treating any specific vote as different from the others.

"Any vote" is not the same as "every vote"

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I just kind of hate the "I'm too smart to value voting" attitude. It's patently inaccurate. In fact, it's unintelligent. The value and weight of a vote is definitive and quantifiable, even for a losing vote. It's just very small.

I can quantify the charge of a single electron, too.  That doesn't mean that its absence will cause the lights to go out.

The quantity of a single electron vs the summation of the electrons is such that it's effect cannot be measured in lumens. But even that can be quantified numerically. A single vote is only artificially rendered ... I don't even want to go through it all. You're analogy is missleading. It doesn't apply.

[Monica83]

They can't they don't have time they must respect the release date even if they want change something.. EA pressure? i don't know i hope bioware is free to keep their decision if it not bad things for the future.. It's not the first time that EA ruins a game... When i eared from dragon age 2 i was excited with many question on my mind like:

Now they add qunari as a playalbe race? or

Now they add new weapons like spears or other things?

When i readed the gameplay topic and the dialoge wheel end the limitation to be an human.. And the cut they maded at the warrior to keep class stati...hem distinct!

eeeeeew.... im just worried this is become another one game for casual gamer....

A strong blow for who have the passion of roleplayng games

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
"Any vote" is not the same as "every vote"

Inaccurate again. Any vote is indeed the same as every vote. Equivilance. Vote equals equals vote. Equivilance is definitive. You cannot treat one separate from the others. You cannot say "remove just one vote." That is a hugely popular falacy that is... well hugely popular but a falacy.