332 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

Faz432 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Well of all the games I've played, a longer game does in no way mean it's superior to the shorter games I've played, when it comes to quality of story,

Progressing from peasant to god-killing-abomination should be the work of a lifetime, and not something that happens over just a few weeks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The proper rate of advancement in a CRPG is 4-5 D&D-sized levels per 60-80 hours of gameplay.

If you want to to make a 40 hour game, I would hope to equal the progression found within NWN's tutorial.

My only arguement is that based off of RPGs made within the last 7 years, there is a list (a substantial one at that) of RPGs that are 30 hours and UNDER and most of them were damn good RPGs in my opinion.  Next to a list of RPGs in the last 7 years that are OVER 30 hours, the OVER 30 hour list loses.....by a landslide.  My point is this:  25-30 hours in an RPG by today's standard is SoP.  Sure, folks can pull from the KotoR and BG or Fallout or Elder Scrolls pool, but all those together STILL doesnt equal the list of RPGs in the past 7 years that are 30 hours or less.   "Shorter" RPGs are the standard now days.  Its something we all have to accept.  People dont have to like it, but they have to accept it because its the universally accepted "norm".   So complaining that DA2 is going to be "shorter" really is kind of pointless.

I'd like to see your lists, I reckon you're wrong.

Unless your list of RPGs OVER 30 hrs in the past 7 years has 40-50 on it, then no, Im NOT wrong lol....(Remember PAST 7 YEARS)

Modifié par Aradace, 09 septembre 2010 - 09:35 .

[Faz432]

Aradace wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Well of all the games I've played, a longer game does in no way mean it's superior to the shorter games I've played, when it comes to quality of story,

Progressing from peasant to god-killing-abomination should be the work of a lifetime, and not something that happens over just a few weeks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The proper rate of advancement in a CRPG is 4-5 D&D-sized levels per 60-80 hours of gameplay.

If you want to to make a 40 hour game, I would hope to equal the progression found within NWN's tutorial.

My only arguement is that based off of RPGs made within the last 7 years, there is a list (a substantial one at that) of RPGs that are 30 hours and UNDER and most of them were damn good RPGs in my opinion.  Next to a list of RPGs in the last 7 years that are OVER 30 hours, the OVER 30 hour list loses.....by a landslide.  My point is this:  25-30 hours in an RPG by today's standard is SoP.  Sure, folks can pull from the KotoR and BG or Fallout or Elder Scrolls pool, but all those together STILL doesnt equal the list of RPGs in the past 7 years that are 30 hours or less.   "Shorter" RPGs are the standard now days.  Its something we all have to accept.  People dont have to like it, but they have to accept it because its the universally accepted "norm".   So complaining that DA2 is going to be "shorter" really is kind of pointless.

I'd like to see your lists, I reckon you're wrong.

Unless your list of RPGs OVER 30 hrs in the past 7 years has 40-50 on it, then no, Im NOT wrong lol....(Remember PAST 7 YEARS)

Your the one with the lists, lets see them. Then we can comment.

Modifié par Faz432, 09 septembre 2010 - 09:37 .

[Aradace]

Ok...so here's my list...AGAIN lol.

1-7: The .//hack series (but when compounded they do equal over 30 hours but that doesnt count as we're counting individual titles. Each one of those is around 20-25 hrs) (First 4 games are 2003-2004 G.U. is 06-07)

8.) Atlier Iris '05
9.) Atlier Iris 2 '06
10.) Atlier Iris 3 '07
11.) BG: Dark Alliance '01 (So we may not count this one)
12.) BG: Dark Alliance 2 (Completed both of these in UNDER 30 hours) '04
13.) Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter '03
14.) Champions of Norrath '04
15.) Champions of Norrath 2: Return to Arms '05
16.) Digital Devil Saga '05
17.) Digital Devil Saga 2 '05
18.) Grandia 2 '02
19.) Grandia 3 '06
20.) Grandia Extreme '02
21.) Kingdom Hearts '02
22.) Kingdom Hearts 2 '06
23.) Kingdom Hearts Re-chain of Memories '08
24.) Legend of Legia 2: Duel Saga '02
25.) Lord of the Rings: The Third Age '04
26.) MS Saga: A New Dawn '06
27.) Shadow Hearts '04
28.) Shadow Hearts From the New World '06
29.) Shin Megami Tensai: Devil Summoner '06
30.) Shin Megami Tensai: Nocturne '04
31.) Suikoden 3 (The only one in the series that I finished UNDER 30 hours lol) '03 I think
32.) Wild Arms 3 '02
33.) Wild Arms 4 '06
34.) Wild Arms 5 '07
36.) Wild Arms Alter Code F '05
37.) Fable 2 '08
38.) Alpha Protocol (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol) '10
39.) Magna Carta 2 07 or '08 I dont remember
40.) Infinite Undiscovery '08
41.) White Knight Chronicles ''07 or '08

And that's all the ones I can think of atm...Remember, when comprising your list that we're NOT talking within the past 10-20 years....Admittedly though, namely the .//hack games may be a bit past the 7 year marker...Even then, it's still 8 or 9....The G.U. series though I know doesnt exceed it. 

Modifié par Aradace, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[Faz432]

Aradace wrote...

Ok...so here's my list...AGAIN lol.

1-7: The .//hack series (but when compounded they do equal over 30 hours but that doesnt count as we're counting individual titles. Each one of those is around 20-25 hrs)

8.) Atlier Iris
9.) Atlier Iris 2
10.) Atlier Iris 3
11.) BG: Dark Alliance
12.) BG: Dark Alliance 2 (Completed both of these in UNDER 30 hours)
13.) Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter
14.) Champions of Norrath
15.) Champions of Norrath 2: Return to Arms
16.) Digital Devil Saga
17.) Digital Devil Saga 2
18.) Grandia 2
19.) Grandia 3
20.) Grandia Extreme
21.) Kingdom Hearts
22.) Kingdom Hearts 2
23.) Kingdom Hearts Re-chain of Memories
24.) Legend of Legia 2: Duel Saga
25.) Lord of the Rings: The Third Age
26.) MS Saga: A New Dawn
27.) Shadow Hearts
28.) Shadow Hearts From the New World
29.) Shin Megami Tensai: Devil Summoner
30.) Shin Megami Tensai: Nocturne
31.) Suikoden 3 (The only one in the series that I finished UNDER 30 hours lol)
32.) Wild Arms 3
33.) Wild Arms 4
34.) Wild Arms 5
36.) Wild Arms Alter Code F
37.) Fable 2
38.) Alpha Protocol (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol)
39.) Magna Carta 2
40.) Infinite Undiscovery
41.) White Knight Chronicles

And that's all the ones I can think of atm...Remember, when comprising your list that we're NOT talking within the past 10-20 years....Admittedly though, namely the .//hack games may be a bit past the 7 year marker...Even then, it's still 8 or 9....The G.U. series though I know doesnt exceed it. 

Well I haven't been playing RPGs that long and haven't heard of many in your list but in the last 3 or so years I can tell you that -

Oblivion
Fallout 3
The Witcher
Mass Effect
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect 2 (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol)

Are widley regarded as the best and are all over 30 hours long

[Onyx Jaguar]

A bunch of JRPGs on that list and some Diablo 2 clones

[Aradace]

Faz432 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Ok...so here's my list...AGAIN lol.

1-7: The .//hack series (but when compounded they do equal over 30 hours but that doesnt count as we're counting individual titles. Each one of those is around 20-25 hrs)

8.) Atlier Iris
9.) Atlier Iris 2
10.) Atlier Iris 3
11.) BG: Dark Alliance
12.) BG: Dark Alliance 2 (Completed both of these in UNDER 30 hours)
13.) Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter
14.) Champions of Norrath
15.) Champions of Norrath 2: Return to Arms
16.) Digital Devil Saga
17.) Digital Devil Saga 2
18.) Grandia 2
19.) Grandia 3
20.) Grandia Extreme
21.) Kingdom Hearts
22.) Kingdom Hearts 2
23.) Kingdom Hearts Re-chain of Memories
24.) Legend of Legia 2: Duel Saga
25.) Lord of the Rings: The Third Age
26.) MS Saga: A New Dawn
27.) Shadow Hearts
28.) Shadow Hearts From the New World
29.) Shin Megami Tensai: Devil Summoner
30.) Shin Megami Tensai: Nocturne
31.) Suikoden 3 (The only one in the series that I finished UNDER 30 hours lol)
32.) Wild Arms 3
33.) Wild Arms 4
34.) Wild Arms 5
36.) Wild Arms Alter Code F
37.) Fable 2
38.) Alpha Protocol (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol)
39.) Magna Carta 2
40.) Infinite Undiscovery
41.) White Knight Chronicles

And that's all the ones I can think of atm...Remember, when comprising your list that we're NOT talking within the past 10-20 years....Admittedly though, namely the .//hack games may be a bit past the 7 year marker...Even then, it's still 8 or 9....The G.U. series though I know doesnt exceed it. 

Well I haven't been playing RPGs that long and haven't heard of many in your list but in the last 3 or so years I can tell you that -

Oblivion
Fallout 3
The Witcher
Mass Effect
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect 2 (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol)

Are widley regarded as the best and are all over 30 hours long

Uh huh and I even gave nod to those....However, my arguement is that shorter RPGs are the NORM.  Your list does not even come CLOSE to mine lol.  I love the ones you mentioned (Especially ME2) But that was my arguement to begin with that the list of shorter RPGs outweighs the LONGER ones meaning that most businesses are going to go with what the norm is and hence why Im saying complaining that DA2 is going to be shorter is pointless....People need to get over it.

[Aradace]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

A bunch of JRPGs on that list and some Diablo 2 clones

Yep....but they are STILL RPGs...You cant discredit them just because they are JRPGs.  A JRPG is still technically an RPG.  As are "Diablo Clones".  My point is that this is the current norm.  So pissing and moaning about DA2 not being 50-60 hours long is kind of pointless to do...If BioWare/EA wants to go with whats the norm, can either accept it and play the game, or dont accept it and just not buy the game...Either way, the complaining is pointless.

Modifié par Aradace, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:07 .

[Faz432]

Aradace wrote...


Uh huh and I even gave nod to those....However, my arguement is that shorter RPGs are the NORM.  Your list does not even come CLOSE to mine lol.  I love the ones you mentioned (Especially ME2) But that was my arguement to begin with that the list of shorter RPGs outweighs the LONGER ones meaning that most businesses are going to go with what the norm is and hence why Im saying complaining that DA2 is going to be shorter is pointless....People need to get over it.

Maybe the people complianing don't want DA2 to be the 'NORM' but they want it to be the 'BEST' like the ones in my list.

Modifié par Faz432, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Faz432 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Ok...so here's my list...AGAIN lol.

1-7: The .//hack series (but when compounded they do equal over 30 hours but that doesnt count as we're counting individual titles. Each one of those is around 20-25 hrs)

8.) Atlier Iris
9.) Atlier Iris 2
10.) Atlier Iris 3
11.) BG: Dark Alliance
12.) BG: Dark Alliance 2 (Completed both of these in UNDER 30 hours)
13.) Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter
14.) Champions of Norrath
15.) Champions of Norrath 2: Return to Arms
16.) Digital Devil Saga
17.) Digital Devil Saga 2
18.) Grandia 2
19.) Grandia 3
20.) Grandia Extreme
21.) Kingdom Hearts
22.) Kingdom Hearts 2
23.) Kingdom Hearts Re-chain of Memories
24.) Legend of Legia 2: Duel Saga
25.) Lord of the Rings: The Third Age
26.) MS Saga: A New Dawn
27.) Shadow Hearts
28.) Shadow Hearts From the New World
29.) Shin Megami Tensai: Devil Summoner
30.) Shin Megami Tensai: Nocturne
31.) Suikoden 3 (The only one in the series that I finished UNDER 30 hours lol)
32.) Wild Arms 3
33.) Wild Arms 4
34.) Wild Arms 5
36.) Wild Arms Alter Code F
37.) Fable 2
38.) Alpha Protocol (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol)
39.) Magna Carta 2
40.) Infinite Undiscovery
41.) White Knight Chronicles

And that's all the ones I can think of atm...Remember, when comprising your list that we're NOT talking within the past 10-20 years....Admittedly though, namely the .//hack games may be a bit past the 7 year marker...Even then, it's still 8 or 9....The G.U. series though I know doesnt exceed it. 

Well I haven't been playing RPGs that long and haven't heard of many in your list but in the last 3 or so years I can tell you that -

Oblivion
Fallout 3
The Witcher
Mass Effect
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect 2 (Yes, it's TECHNICALLY an RPG lol)

Are widley regarded as the best and are all over 30 hours long

Well again to kind of nerf that comment I would say that just going by the story-based aspect that Oblvion and Fallout 3 can be beaten relatively quickly.  I cannot comment on The Witcher and I already stated how long it took me to beat DA:O.  But again its all subjective, I beat ME at first in only 17 hours (with the long at 21 and complete near 100% at 15) and ME 2 in 25.  Conversely I see Aradace's list and am kind of impress that they beat Suikoden 3 and the SMT games in under 30 hours (haven't played DDS2 however).

But comparitively I guess its about content.

I brought up Wizardry earlier as the only games in that series I have played are 1 6 and 8.  But specifically in regards to 6 it takes awhile to beat not because of its content but because of how slow it moves.  A JRPG like Nocturne has a ton of content, but the battle system and movement is much quicker.  

Going back to play games like Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 and then compare them to Dragon Age there is something about speed of the game that can shave off some time.  BG2 is filled to the brim with content and it moves relatively so it is pretty long.  Comparitevely DA:O has less content (I believe) and moves quicker so it is easier to get that game done in a quick amount of time.  However apply that to the Original Baldur's Gate and the speed you could run through it would be a bit quicker, even without changes to the combat system just on how the engine is built and the pace.  Conversely VA sets a set speed to dialogue.  Without VA time can vary quite a bit as reading speed differs from person to person.

A couple RPGs from the late 90s that I would say would have benefited from  a quicker pace (as I do not believe they have aged as well as Baldur's Gate 1 or 2) would be the first two Fallout games.  In regards to the second one specifically, and I do not believe it would be a detriment to the game.  

Now that I have written this I forget what my original point is.

Well on the other side if DA 2 ends up the length of Alpha Protocol I think I would be dissapointed.  

[Aradace]

@Faz
And I sympathize with you....But your complaining isnt going to make them change what's already in the works is what Im saying. You might not WANT it to go that way, but the truth of the matter is that BioWare/EA has decided that they DO want it to go that way for a more "cinematic" experience. Again, what you want and what BioWare/EA wants are two completely different things. And we've already discussed the essence of that to nauseum before this in that your complaining isnt going to change anything because there isnt and wont be enough of you complaining to actually change anything.

Modifié par Aradace, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:14 .

[KLUME777]

Aradace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Well of all the games I've played, a longer game does in no way mean it's superior to the shorter games I've played, when it comes to quality of story,

Progressing from peasant to god-killing-abomination should be the work of a lifetime, and not something that happens over just a few weeks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The proper rate of advancement in a CRPG is 4-5 D&D-sized levels per 60-80 hours of gameplay.

If you want to to make a 40 hour game, I would hope to equal the progression found within NWN's tutorial.

My only arguement is that based off of RPGs made within the last 7 years, there is a list (a substantial one at that) of RPGs that are 30 hours and UNDER and most of them were damn good RPGs in my opinion.  Next to a list of RPGs in the last 7 years that are OVER 30 hours, the OVER 30 hour list loses.....by a landslide.  My point is this:  25-30 hours in an RPG by today's standard is SoP.  Sure, folks can pull from the KotoR and BG or Fallout or Elder Scrolls pool, but all those together STILL doesnt equal the list of RPGs in the past 7 years that are 30 hours or less.   "Shorter" RPGs are the standard now days.  Its something we all have to accept.  People dont have to like it, but they have to accept it because its the universally accepted "norm".   So complaining that DA2 is going to be "shorter" really is kind of pointless.

What games are these?

They must be unheard of because in the last 7 years,

KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, DAO, Fallout 3, TES: Oblivion all go for over 80 hours at least,

Mass Effect 1, ME2 and Alpha Protocol are in the 40 - 60 area.

These games are all above 25-30 hours and they are the best RPG's in the past 7 years.

( I dont play JRPG'S or Fable)

[Ortaya Alevli]

I know a certain game where length has to do with a lot of things...

If you can look past the lack of grace in the analogy, the point still stands. A roleplaying game is mostly about story and character development. This is not a genre which allows you to do the same thing over and over for weeks and still enjoy it. You can pick up a strategy game and lose yourself in skirmish maps for months. The same doesn't hold true for RPGs, however. In the end, you're following the same story every time, and the differences, usually not vast enough, fail to warrant dozens of replays.

Besides, if the game is too short, that means either the story is too short as well or underdeveloped. Most of the elements remain superficial and opportunities missed. You can create a glorious setting, complete with lore and gameplay elements, but all this is wasted when you tell your story in twenty hours and shut your mouth. And no, DLCs won't cut it, sorry. Curses to whoever invented this DLC crap anyway. It just turned into an excuse for releasing incomplete games.

[Aradace]

KLUME777 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Well of all the games I've played, a longer game does in no way mean it's superior to the shorter games I've played, when it comes to quality of story,

Progressing from peasant to god-killing-abomination should be the work of a lifetime, and not something that happens over just a few weeks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The proper rate of advancement in a CRPG is 4-5 D&D-sized levels per 60-80 hours of gameplay.

If you want to to make a 40 hour game, I would hope to equal the progression found within NWN's tutorial.

My only arguement is that based off of RPGs made within the last 7 years, there is a list (a substantial one at that) of RPGs that are 30 hours and UNDER and most of them were damn good RPGs in my opinion.  Next to a list of RPGs in the last 7 years that are OVER 30 hours, the OVER 30 hour list loses.....by a landslide.  My point is this:  25-30 hours in an RPG by today's standard is SoP.  Sure, folks can pull from the KotoR and BG or Fallout or Elder Scrolls pool, but all those together STILL doesnt equal the list of RPGs in the past 7 years that are 30 hours or less.   "Shorter" RPGs are the standard now days.  Its something we all have to accept.  People dont have to like it, but they have to accept it because its the universally accepted "norm".   So complaining that DA2 is going to be "shorter" really is kind of pointless.

What games are these?

They must be unheard of because in the last 7 years,

KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, DAO, Fallout 3, TES: Oblivion all go for over 80 hours at least,

Mass Effect 1, ME2 and Alpha Protocol are in the 40 - 60 area.

These games are all above 25-30 hours and they are the best RPG's in the past 7 years.

( I dont play JRPG'S or Fable)

Again, my list still trumps the ones that do which is my point....Shorter RPGs are the NORM.  And if you haven heard of most of them, then maybe you're not as much of an "RPG" enthusiest as you think you are? (spelling?)
I LITERALLY grew up on RPGs of all shapes and sizes.  Back when I was a kid, longer games were the norm....But today, the shorter ones are.  Im not siding one way or the other as to which is better in terms of a longer or shorter game, Im simply pointing out the current "norm"

Modifié par Aradace, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[KLUME777]

Its not possible to 100% Mass Effect 1 in 15 hours.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I know a certain game where length has to do with a lot of things...
If you can look past the lack of grace in the analogy, the point still stands. A roleplaying game is mostly about story and character development. This is not a genre which allows you to do the same thing over and over for weeks and still enjoy it. You can pick up a strategy game and lose yourself in skirmish maps for months. The same doesn't hold true for RPGs, however. In the end, you're following the same story every time, and the differences, usually not vast enough, fail to warrant dozens of replays.
Besides, if the game is too short, that means either the story is too short as well or underdeveloped. Most of the elements remain superficial and opportunities missed. You can create a glorious setting, complete with lore and gameplay elements, but all this is wasted when you tell your story in twenty hours and shut your mouth. And no, DLCs won't cut it, sorry. Curses to whoever invented this DLC crap anyway. It just turned into an excuse for releasing incomplete games.

Generally it depends on "what" aspects of the story you are referring to

In Baldur's Gate, Oblivion and the Fallout games (1, 2 and 3) the actual main story path are not really that long.  However they are all affected by additional content within the game.  Lots of sidequests and the like (and hell in the aspects of those games just exploring).  

A JRPG on the other hand can get confusing to determine as you end up running through a storyline in a linear order, however they tend to take awhile because of grinding and the like.

In regards to the first Dragon Age it splits up the story quite a bit.  Kind of in phases.  You basically have some side quest hubs and story "excuses" as the primary story has more to do with Loghain than the Darkspawn invasion.  And even that much of the game is recruiting allies and are their own self contained stories.

[Aradace]

KLUME777 wrote...

Its not possible to 100% Mass Effect 1 in 15 hours.

Who said that? Not me lol.

[Onyx Jaguar]

KLUME777 wrote...

Its not possible to 100% Mass Effect 1 in 15 hours.

I would say around 90%, skipping some dialogue and not doing a quest like the Keeper quest for instance.  FAQs  help, know where to go and in what order.  Plus grabbing LIara right away allows you to make short work of the enemies.  

[KLUME777]

Aradace wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Well of all the games I've played, a longer game does in no way mean it's superior to the shorter games I've played, when it comes to quality of story,

Progressing from peasant to god-killing-abomination should be the work of a lifetime, and not something that happens over just a few weeks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The proper rate of advancement in a CRPG is 4-5 D&D-sized levels per 60-80 hours of gameplay.

If you want to to make a 40 hour game, I would hope to equal the progression found within NWN's tutorial.

My only arguement is that based off of RPGs made within the last 7 years, there is a list (a substantial one at that) of RPGs that are 30 hours and UNDER and most of them were damn good RPGs in my opinion.  Next to a list of RPGs in the last 7 years that are OVER 30 hours, the OVER 30 hour list loses.....by a landslide.  My point is this:  25-30 hours in an RPG by today's standard is SoP.  Sure, folks can pull from the KotoR and BG or Fallout or Elder Scrolls pool, but all those together STILL doesnt equal the list of RPGs in the past 7 years that are 30 hours or less.   "Shorter" RPGs are the standard now days.  Its something we all have to accept.  People dont have to like it, but they have to accept it because its the universally accepted "norm".   So complaining that DA2 is going to be "shorter" really is kind of pointless.

What games are these?

They must be unheard of because in the last 7 years,

KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, DAO, Fallout 3, TES: Oblivion all go for over 80 hours at least,

Mass Effect 1, ME2 and Alpha Protocol are in the 40 - 60 area.

These games are all above 25-30 hours and they are the best RPG's in the past 7 years.

( I dont play JRPG'S or Fable)

Again, my list still trumps the ones that do which is my point....Shorter RPGs are the NORM.  And if you haven heard of most of them, then maybe you're not as much of an "RPG" enthusiest as you think you are? (spelling?)
I LITERALLY grew up on RPGs of all shapes and sizes.  Back when I was a kid, longer games were the norm....But today, the shorter ones are.  Im not siding one way or the other as to which is better in terms of a longer or shorter game, Im simply pointing out the current "norm"

And most of those games are average or below. Bioware are at the top of there game and have been for a long time. Short RPG's Are not the norm, those games are unpopular.

[Aradace]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Its not possible to 100% Mass Effect 1 in 15 hours.

I would say around 90%, skipping some dialogue and not doing a quest like the Keeper quest for instance.  FAQs  help, know where to go and in what order.  Plus grabbing LIara right away allows you to make short work of the enemies.  

Even then, if you know exactly where to go for all the keepers it should only take you 5-10 mins tops to finish that one....I believe my fastest ME1 completion time was somewhere around 16+ hours.  That was with skpping dialog and knowing exactly where I needed to be and taking the path of least resistance to get there. 

[Faz432]

When you're talking about game length you can't use your personal speed play, you have to go by the widely accepted average, like DA:O is widely regarded as a 40+ hour game.

All the very best RPGs that I know of have been 30+ hour games.

Modifié par Faz432, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[Aradace]

KLUME777 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Well of all the games I've played, a longer game does in no way mean it's superior to the shorter games I've played, when it comes to quality of story,

Progressing from peasant to god-killing-abomination should be the work of a lifetime, and not something that happens over just a few weeks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The proper rate of advancement in a CRPG is 4-5 D&D-sized levels per 60-80 hours of gameplay.

If you want to to make a 40 hour game, I would hope to equal the progression found within NWN's tutorial.

My only arguement is that based off of RPGs made within the last 7 years, there is a list (a substantial one at that) of RPGs that are 30 hours and UNDER and most of them were damn good RPGs in my opinion.  Next to a list of RPGs in the last 7 years that are OVER 30 hours, the OVER 30 hour list loses.....by a landslide.  My point is this:  25-30 hours in an RPG by today's standard is SoP.  Sure, folks can pull from the KotoR and BG or Fallout or Elder Scrolls pool, but all those together STILL doesnt equal the list of RPGs in the past 7 years that are 30 hours or less.   "Shorter" RPGs are the standard now days.  Its something we all have to accept.  People dont have to like it, but they have to accept it because its the universally accepted "norm".   So complaining that DA2 is going to be "shorter" really is kind of pointless.

What games are these?

They must be unheard of because in the last 7 years,

KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, DAO, Fallout 3, TES: Oblivion all go for over 80 hours at least,

Mass Effect 1, ME2 and Alpha Protocol are in the 40 - 60 area.

These games are all above 25-30 hours and they are the best RPG's in the past 7 years.

( I dont play JRPG'S or Fable)

Again, my list still trumps the ones that do which is my point....Shorter RPGs are the NORM.  And if you haven heard of most of them, then maybe you're not as much of an "RPG" enthusiest as you think you are? (spelling?)
I LITERALLY grew up on RPGs of all shapes and sizes.  Back when I was a kid, longer games were the norm....But today, the shorter ones are.  Im not siding one way or the other as to which is better in terms of a longer or shorter game, Im simply pointing out the current "norm"

And most of those games are average or below. Bioware are at the top of there game and have been for a long time. Short RPG's Are not the norm, those games are unpopular.

Just because YOU havent heard of them they are unpopular? LOL Are you serious?  Would you like me to go and get the game ratings for each of those games too because I can just to prove you wrong. Admittedly, a handful of those games were just plain bad (Magna Carta 2) but that doesnt make them any less applicable. Just because YOU havent heard of something doesnt mean it's unpopular or unheard of nor does it make anything on the list inadmissable.  You're just pissed that it IS the norm and you're grasping at straws to try and make yourself right.  BioWare (As with ME2 and DA2) Are slowly going toward what the "norm" is....As I said, you can either accept the fact that it's the norm and play the game....Or dont accept it and just dont buy the game, that simple. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

Faz432 wrote...

When you're talking about game length you can't use your personal speed play, you have to go by the widely accepted average, like DA:O is widely regarded as a 40+ hour game.

All the very best RPGs that I know of have been 30+ hour games.

I'm just saying its subjective based on the user.

I gave a low, Sylvius gave a high.  It depends on the person not what someone markets as its "length"

[Aradace]

Faz432 wrote...

When you're talking about game length you can't use your personal speed play, you have to go by the widely accepted average, like DA:O is widely regarded as a 40+ hour game.

All the very best RPGs that I know of have been 30+ hour games.

Exactly.....30 hours plus which usually means 30 hours and some change....People here for the most part are actually complaining that DA2 may be 25-30 hours worth of game play....Which is pretty petty IMO.

[21121313]

javierabegazo wrote...

Why do people insist that Length has anything to do with the quality of a game...?

Shorter length doesn't bother me AS LONG AS there is replayability to that game. I have spent more time playing DA:O(except maybe Oblivion...that was 425 hours on my PS3) then any other game short of a MMO, and that was due to being able to replay it differently.

And to the individual that said FFXIII was 80 hours of crap....in your opinion. My opinion was FFXIII was 148 hours of AAA gaming. I actually put down DA:O to fully finish it, and that's saying something considering DA:O is one of the top 3 games on the PS3...

[Faz432]

If they want to be an average/normal studio then yes but if they want to be in the very best like they are now then it would suggest they need to produce lengthy masterpieces rather than short knock offs.



I'm not saying that short games can't be good but if they are doesn't that leave you with a feeling of being short changed?