When I eventually move on to BG2. I know I want to take Nalia, Anomen, Aerie, and probably Keldorn. And my PC will probably be either an elite archer or a fighter/thief multiclass. I just can't decide if I should fill my last slot with Minsc, Valygar, Haer'Dalis, Jan, etc. or if I should leave it empty so that I can level up faster. I really want my party to be established (and pretty much stay that way) early on in the game. I don't know how long it takes to get Val or Haer, though.
Who else to add to this BG2 party
Débuté par
Makatak23
, sept. 08 2010 07:48
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#2
Posté 08 septembre 2010 - 07:58
Humanoid_Taifun
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Valygar and Haer'Dalis can both be played as very nice tanks, though in a completely different fashion.
It is very easy to make Valygar a tank. Giving him the Defender of Easthaven (that stops Anomen from using it but he doesn't deserve it anyway, right?) and a few more items he can be made nigh immune to almost everything the enemies can throw at him with very little buffing involved. Almost immune.
Haer'Dalis would die nearly immediately from this lack of effort. But being a blade, he can use the mage spells (a number of them) to become entirely immune to all that the game could throw at him.
Melee damage wise, they are similar, but Haer'Dalis has the added advantage of UAI and of course again: spells. His Dispel will probably not be needed in a party with Keldorn, but an extra Skull Trap is always nice.
It is very easy to make Valygar a tank. Giving him the Defender of Easthaven (that stops Anomen from using it but he doesn't deserve it anyway, right?) and a few more items he can be made nigh immune to almost everything the enemies can throw at him with very little buffing involved. Almost immune.
Haer'Dalis would die nearly immediately from this lack of effort. But being a blade, he can use the mage spells (a number of them) to become entirely immune to all that the game could throw at him.
Melee damage wise, they are similar, but Haer'Dalis has the added advantage of UAI and of course again: spells. His Dispel will probably not be needed in a party with Keldorn, but an extra Skull Trap is always nice.
#3
Posté 08 septembre 2010 - 10:21
Cowboy_christo
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What kind of question is this? Minsc of course
#4
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 11:19
LTD
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I'd go with Haer'Dalis. Two significant reasons! For one,blades with right equipment and spells are both entertaining and efficient to have around. More importantly, he is cool as hell character. Loads of avant garde dialogue, overall approach to life lacking in sanity, phenomenal voice actor.
Unless you have Ascension or similar mods installed, there really isn't need to worry about the performance of your party; not many fights will truly challenge you once you get the hang of spell mechanics.
[Minor spoilers inc ]
All of the NPCs you listed can be found more or less immediately, it's just matter of knowing where to look. Quest for Haer'Dalis starts in the larger of two taverns found at bridge district. During this quest, you get bard-only chain mail equivalent armor that allows spellcasting, is nice.
If you enjoy well written NPCs, I'd warmly recommend you to check some of the mods available at Pocket Plane Group. At least Xan and Solaufein are at the very least equal in quality to official NPCs. (When we speak of dialogue, NPC specific quests and such)
In conclusion, Haer'Dalis for president!
Readier than a red-cheeked maiden, my friend!
- Haer'Dalis, upon being clicked.
Unless you have Ascension or similar mods installed, there really isn't need to worry about the performance of your party; not many fights will truly challenge you once you get the hang of spell mechanics.
[Minor spoilers inc ]
All of the NPCs you listed can be found more or less immediately, it's just matter of knowing where to look. Quest for Haer'Dalis starts in the larger of two taverns found at bridge district. During this quest, you get bard-only chain mail equivalent armor that allows spellcasting, is nice.
If you enjoy well written NPCs, I'd warmly recommend you to check some of the mods available at Pocket Plane Group. At least Xan and Solaufein are at the very least equal in quality to official NPCs. (When we speak of dialogue, NPC specific quests and such)
In conclusion, Haer'Dalis for president!
Readier than a red-cheeked maiden, my friend!
- Haer'Dalis, upon being clicked.
Modifié par LTD, 16 septembre 2010 - 11:46 .
#5
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 03:38
Morbidest
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If you go with an F/T it might be worth thinking about having Jaheira along for druidic magic.
If your PC is an archer, then Minsc and Keldorn make sense - or at least as much sense as Minsc is ever capable of
. But for ToB I would consider dropping Minsc for Sarevok.
If your PC is an archer, then Minsc and Keldorn make sense - or at least as much sense as Minsc is ever capable of
. But for ToB I would consider dropping Minsc for Sarevok.
#6
Guest_Acharnae_*
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 07:22
Guest_Acharnae_*
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Minsc would make your game with this party you described a lot, lot easier.
Haer Dalis is not garbage, is a very interesting character and can do some decent work, but he's more complicated and you need to dig a bit on his attributes to figure out a way to use them effectively. He will never make a good a tank as Minsc and I think a tank is what your party as you described it needs.
Valygar, sure but again second choice.
He is much easier to get than Haer Dalis, comes to the game faster and the battles to get him are not as tough.
Also, you'll need thieving enhancements (amulets, rings, etc). Nalia just doesn't cut it on her own.
Haer Dalis is not garbage, is a very interesting character and can do some decent work, but he's more complicated and you need to dig a bit on his attributes to figure out a way to use them effectively. He will never make a good a tank as Minsc and I think a tank is what your party as you described it needs.
Valygar, sure but again second choice.
He is much easier to get than Haer Dalis, comes to the game faster and the battles to get him are not as tough.
Also, you'll need thieving enhancements (amulets, rings, etc). Nalia just doesn't cut it on her own.
Modifié par Acharnae, 17 septembre 2010 - 07:23 .
#7
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 12:03
Humanoid_Taifun
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Agreed on the first bit (Haer'Dalis does need some practise to be employed properly. But the second part? " never [...] a[s] good a tank as Minsc"?Acharnae wrote...
Haer Dalis is not garbage, is a very interesting character and can do some decent work, but he's more complicated and you need to dig a bit on his attributes to figure out a way to use them effectively. He will never make a good a tank as Minsc and I think a tank is what your party as you described it needs.
He's an arcane caster. That means his powerceiling is pretty high. Admittedly, his 10 maximum damage attacks per round are below what damage Minsc can deal under most circumstances, because his weapons are so limited*. But doesn't a tank require durability more than damage dealing potential? Isn't his invulnerability most interesting to his functioning as one then?
* By the way, with the right buffs, I guess he might just beat Minsc in terms of damage dealing... BBoD main hand (or better yet, Shapechange: Iron Golem), Scarlet Ninja-To off-hand, str25 (I think Potion of Storm Giant Strength + Holy Symbol?) means a lot of damage.
Sure, that burns a scroll. Maybe you'll just figure it's worth it for that one special occasion.
#8
Guest_Acharnae_*
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 09:34
Guest_Acharnae_*
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Well that's an interesting conversation because I find out things that I don't know 
What do you mean by invunerability? Do you mean against magic or against THACO?
The thing is that Minsc will always have many more hitpoints than Haer Dalis, so from the view point of standing his ground he gets the upper hand.
Haer Dalis maybe can lower his AC to a very good amount but it most certaintly won't be a permanent feature. From the point of view of magic I think you're right and Haer as a spellcaster might have availabe a wider array of protections than Minsc. But that can be countered by helms whose effects are permanent, not on spells which wear out.
And in dissing out physical damage, well I think that's true that there's propably only sarevok that can surpass a well equiped crazy space hamster lover
Having said all that Haer Dalis is a must to have in your party at least during one run through (especially if you're romancing aerie) as are almost all BG2 NPCs. Very artfully crafted personality and a challenging AD&D player class/race.
What do you mean by invunerability? Do you mean against magic or against THACO?
The thing is that Minsc will always have many more hitpoints than Haer Dalis, so from the view point of standing his ground he gets the upper hand.
Haer Dalis maybe can lower his AC to a very good amount but it most certaintly won't be a permanent feature. From the point of view of magic I think you're right and Haer as a spellcaster might have availabe a wider array of protections than Minsc. But that can be countered by helms whose effects are permanent, not on spells which wear out.
And in dissing out physical damage, well I think that's true that there's propably only sarevok that can surpass a well equiped crazy space hamster lover
Having said all that Haer Dalis is a must to have in your party at least during one run through (especially if you're romancing aerie) as are almost all BG2 NPCs. Very artfully crafted personality and a challenging AD&D player class/race.
Modifié par Acharnae, 18 septembre 2010 - 09:53 .
#9
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 10:38
Humanoid_Taifun
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Who cares about HP? Played correctly, Haer'Dalis will never lose even one.Acharnae wrote...
What do you mean by invunerability? Do you mean against magic or against THACO?
The thing is that Minsc will always have many more hitpoints than Haer Dalis, so from the view point of standing his ground he gets the upper hand.
Minsc can raise his resistances, very much so even, but he can never become completely immune to all attacks and spells.
Improving the AC is good. Having Stoneskins, Mirror Images and from time to time PfMW is better.Haer Dalis maybe can lower his AC to a very good amount but it most certaintly won't be a permanent feature.
If you're scared the enemy might dispel the protections, just cast Improved Invisibility + Spell Immunity: Divination. This has the nice side effect that Haer'Dalis cannot be targeted anymore by single-target spells (unless the opponent can see through invisibility - Sahuagin, Demons etc can do this)
Haer'Dalis is also a bard, meaning he will have a high level quite early, so the durations of his protection spells is pretty good.
Okay. let's compare.And in dissing out physical damage, well I think that's true that there's propably only sarevok that can surpass a well equiped crazy space hamster lover
Haer'Dalis, Shapechange: Irongolem, off-hand Scarlet Ninja To, Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, Improved Hasted, Offensive Spin:
7 attacks for 56 damage each, + 2 attacks for 27 damage (save vs poison or take 12 extra damage).
This is 446 + up to 24 points of damage in one round.
Please don't look down on our bard.
Now, of course this is not the limit.
For example Jan can do better. Shapechange: Irongolem, off-hand Belm, Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, Improved Hasted, Assassination:
5 attacks for 5 x 24 + 14 damage each, + 2 attacks for 8,5 x 5 + 14 = 783 points of damage, and differently from Haer'Dalis, Jan doesn't even have to burn a scroll for this (assuming he's already reached 6M XP).
But don't worry, Jan doesn't plan on replacing either of your two bald favourites in close combat. He finds that his abilities are much better used casting spells.
#10
Guest_Acharnae_*
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 10:45
Guest_Acharnae_*
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Haha
OK But all these can be used how many times? (congrats on the details BTW, very impressive )
Minsc will consistently give thrushings and be low AC.
Haer Dalis and Jan will do these things once a year in their birthday
Also when you shapeshift, can you still attack with your own weapons?
And of course most of this equipment (along with some even stronger one I think) can pass on to Minsc for even larger damage, all the time without any need for limited power ups and limited duration spells.
By the time of ToB Minsc will be dissing out 10 attacks per round in his sleep
OK
But all these can be used how many times? (congrats on the details BTW, very impressive ) Minsc will consistently give thrushings and be low AC.
Haer Dalis and Jan will do these things once a year in their birthday
Also when you shapeshift, can you still attack with your own weapons?
And of course most of this equipment (along with some even stronger one I think) can pass on to Minsc for even larger damage, all the time without any need for limited power ups and limited duration spells.
By the time of ToB Minsc will be dissing out 10 attacks per round in his sleep
Modifié par Acharnae, 18 septembre 2010 - 11:04 .
#11
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 11:46
Humanoid_Taifun
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As I said, Jan can do this once per day (because he only gets one Assassination) - though he could abuse Mislead to do this for 2 minutes (not that anything would be left standing after the first 6 rounds...).Acharnae wrote...
OK
What Haer'Dalis can do on a regular basis is somewhere above 200, the only limitations being the amount of Improved Hastes and Offensive Spins available.
His AC will very certainly be constantly better than Minsc's - after all, he can wear any equipment he likes, and if he's in trouble, he can easily improve his AC by 20 points (that's a lie, this improvement would almost certainly hit the cap of -24, so the actual improvement would be a lot less, but -24 AC is still better than what Minsc sports, right?).
There are a number of Shapechange scrolls available, and each of them can be turned into one of these stampedes of Haer'Dalis (if you don't need them to scribe them into somebody's book). If you run out of Shapechange, Black Blade of Disaster can be used in a similar fashion (but with a smaller damage result)
Your left weapon, yes.Also when you shapeshift, can you still attack with your own weapons?
The best that Minsc would be able to do is this:And of course most of this equipment (along with some even stronger one I think) can pass on to Minsc for even larger damage, all the time without any need for limited power ups and limited duration spells.
Str 24, 10 APR, Flail of Ages, Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization for:
10 x (12 + 19,5 + 2 + 2) = 355
That cannot be done throughout most of the game though, FoA+5 is assembled just before the finishing line, and this outfit burns a Potions of Storm Giant Strength.
Usually and properly equipped Minsc looks like this in my games:
Str >20, FoA, Defender of Easthaven, Gauntlets of (whichever) Specialization, Improved Haste.
Damage wise this is more, but comparable to what Haer'Dalis deals (I already said that generally Minsc does more damage).
(FoA + Crom Faeyr would do more damage than FoA + DoE, but the DoE halves the damage he takes himself)
So will Haer'Dalis, who has to use weapons with less damage, but deals maximum damage (+2) on every hit.By the time of ToB Minsc will be dissing out 10 attacks per round in his sleep
In the end it comes down to whether you like buffing or not. Minsc can improve his physical resistances to about 85% and with the Cloak of Mirroring he doesn't take any damage from spells - but Haer'Dalis is able to become immune to everything the enemy might try - If. You. Cast. The. Spells.
Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 18 septembre 2010 - 11:58 .
#12
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 12:40
Makatak23
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where can i find items or stuff to boost my Find/Disarm Traps? Nalia failed to located 2 traps in a house on the docks and now I'm pissed off.
#13
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 03:08
Incantatar
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You should look in the Planar Sphere in the slums. Nalia is not a full thief. If it's your first playthrough you might want to take Jan/Yoshi with you.
#14
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 04:50
Thailog
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You can also use a potion of perception to temporarily boost a thief's trap finding skill.
IIRC, there's also an amulet of the Harpers which improves trap finding and lockpicking but you get it very late in the game.
IIRC, there's also an amulet of the Harpers which improves trap finding and lockpicking but you get it very late in the game.
#15
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 12:38
jaxsbudgie
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Makatak23 wrote...
where can i find items or stuff to boost my Find/Disarm Traps? Nalia failed to located 2 traps in a house on the docks and now I'm pissed off.
Edit: Incantatar is right, there is a ring of danger sense in the Planar Sphere and a ring of lockpicks on a thief in the Shadow Thieves guildhall (only obtainable when you've given Gaelan Bayle the gold). For the Planar Sphere, either kill Valygar and take his body there, or let him temporarily join you so he can open the door then drop him.
Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 19 septembre 2010 - 12:46 .
#16
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 03:59
Sparky The Barbarian
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Actually I'd drop Aerie unless you plan to romance her and go with 4. You really only need one of each class and you have that covered between the rest.
#17
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 04:25
jaxsbudgie
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Sparky is right (I am totally biased though, I truly dislike Aerie), a team of 4 is solid.
Also, because I'm feeling rather contradictory today, have you considered Cernd?
Druidic spells would benefit your team nicely, kit him to Totemic Druid and he will win.
Nalia is a good Swashbuckler/Mage. But you need a full Mage, whenever I'm in that situation with Nalia I either make her a Sorceress or a Thief and then dual her to specialist Mage when she obtains 100 in locks and traps. But I understand you've already started .... you could always use Shadowkeeper to down-level her to a level 1 Thief, then level her back up again via the console.
Also, because I'm feeling rather contradictory today, have you considered Cernd?
Druidic spells would benefit your team nicely, kit him to Totemic Druid and he will win.
Nalia is a good Swashbuckler/Mage. But you need a full Mage, whenever I'm in that situation with Nalia I either make her a Sorceress or a Thief and then dual her to specialist Mage when she obtains 100 in locks and traps. But I understand you've already started .... you could always use Shadowkeeper to down-level her to a level 1 Thief, then level her back up again via the console.
