114 réponses à ce sujet

[Comrade Bork]

All-a-Mort wrote...

The Revs only real virtues is that up close (as a soldier you'd be using the Mantis or Viper for any distance) unlike a shotty it's not going to run out of ammo when you're surrounded. At least that's my experience of shotguns.

Anyway Bioware should have done one of two things with the Rev:
1. Soup it up further and make it a chaingun style heavy weapon (like a portable version of the one on the gunships ans Ymir mechs), not a LMG for the player.
2. If keeping it as LMG (or not since IMO squadmates should've been able to use heavy weapons under your orders), make it assignable to assault rifle qualified squad mates so as a non-sniper player class needing to get close to be effective, your squad mates (I'm thinking Zaaed and Grunt would like a machinegun) could give some proper suppresssing fire. Not much point trying to do that as the player, because Shep's team mates so often get stuck or refuse to budge and follow orders.

There is a reason LMGs were developed: to fit the perfect gunner role in a squad. This idea was first tried heavily with the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle), but it was heavy, and had a low ammo capacity. Then after WWII, the M60 was another shot at a squad-integral LMG, but like the BAR, was missing something. Many more ideas floated around, but one gun game back as the supreme LMG for the last 20+ years: The SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon). That weapon is a little wonder gun, and has served in the US Armed Services since its introduction. It has all of the benefits of a machine gun (fire rate, belt-fed, etc.), with the benefits of an AR (Uses the same ammunition that an M16 uses, lightweight, can take the magazines in an emergency, etc.). There is a reason why squads don't lug around heavy MGs anymore. Sorry, I just love LMGs. :happy:

Now I think Zaeed should have been able to unlock the Revenant (like Grunt can get the Claymore, and Legion can get the Widow). Also, I think they should have made the Revenant more accurate, but a lttle less powerful.

[lazuli]

JaegerBane wrote...
For some reason a lot of people seem to ignore the Rev's ammo capacity in comparisons with the Mattock and others.

The Mattock does have a restrictively low ammo capacity, but thermal clips give such a large amount of ammo for it that it isn't all that big of a problem.  Yeah, I run out of ammo with it all the time, but that's only because I'm not swapping weapons as much as I should be.  The Revenant is a fine weapon, but it all comes down to playstyle.

[Christmas Ape]

I can't even imagine running out of ammo, save on the Collector ship where the floor texture is "bigger" than thermal clips. And that's as a Vindicator/Carnifex/Widow/"What are squad powers again? Just drown it in bullets" soldier on Hardcore/Insanity. I guess as a result the Rev's never appealed to me.

Might get into the ini and let Zaeed and/or Grunt lug it around, though.

[Thompson family]

JaegerBane wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

And the best option of all is to use a powerful gun skillfully -- which requires self-control and self-discipline instead of picking a weapon with a built-in handicap that forces you into good shooting.

Oh please, let's not try and claim one gun over the other is somehow the 'professional's' choice. Hell, the above statement is so vague you could apply it in favour of either the mattock or the revenant without changing a single word.

That was my rebuttal to exacty the thing you are complaining about. I should have quoted the post I was rebutting.

You're making exactly the same complaint I am. I'm tired of people who can't shoot claiming that that the Revenant is a noob gun that can only be used as a firehose.

[upsettingshorts]

Actually, I had never used the Locust on my PC until today. I modded my savegame to replace the pistol slot on my soldier with the SMG.

That is the noob gun.

By comparison the Revenant really requires a great deal of skill to use.  It's not about professionalism or any other such silly nonsense.  It's about the fact that yes, the Revenant is comparitively inaccurate and has some kick to it.  Where the skill comes in is being able to think about how and when to use it tactically, and getting comfortable with shooting it - meaning how and where you aim your mouse, how long to hold down the trigger, etc.

Bursting effectively with a Revenant is kind of like a slightly-staggered double click, while slightly pushing down with the mouse inbetween clicks.  It's subtle and requires practice.  

The Locust?  Point at the target's head and hold down the trigger till it dies or you need to reload.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 septembre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Sailears]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Actually, I had never used the Locust on my PC until today. I modded my savegame to replace the pistol slot on my soldier with the SMG.

That is the noob gun.

By comparison the Revenant really requires a great deal of skill to use.  It's not about professionalism or any other such silly nonsense.  It's about the fact that yes, the Revenant is comparitively inaccurate and has some kick to it.  Where the skill comes in is being able to think about how and when to use it tactically, and getting comfortable with shooting it - meaning how and where you aim your mouse, how long to hold down the trigger, etc.

Bursting effectively with a Revenant is kind of like a slightly-staggered double click, while slightly pushing down with the mouse inbetween clicks.  It's subtle and requires practice.  

The Locust?  Point at the target's head and hold down the trigger till it dies or you need to reload.

Absolutely. I do feel like I'm, well, cheating (for want of a better word) when using the locust. Plus its sound effect gets on my nerves after a while.
I agree with what you say about the revenant - it does require more care in planning your way around the battlefield; getting close enough to targets for maximum effect.

[JaegerBane]

Thompson family wrote...
That was my rebuttal to exacty the thing you are complaining about. I should have quoted the post I was rebutting.

You're making exactly the same complaint I am. I'm tired of people who can't shoot claiming that that the Revenant is a noob gun that can only be used as a firehose.

Ah, my apologies.

Yeah, some of the complaints on here seem to exclusively target the Rev as something that couldn't hit a barn door at 20 paces. I'm using it on a *modded Adept* and I'm not having any bother dealing with targets at mid range. I found it very useful in the defence portion of LotSB due to the fact I just didn't run out of ammo.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:56 .

[JaegerBane]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
The Locust?  Point at the target's head and hold down the trigger till it dies or you need to reload.

To be fair, that is the reason why the Locust has such a small clip. It's clearly intended to emulate Pistols with Master Marksman from the ME1 days.

[Kronner]

If Locust is overpowered..then Mattock is what godlike? Locust is certainly great gun, but it is still only SMG/mini-AR.

[Besetment]

Locust just makes the other SMGs more or less redundent because you can get it so early and its unbelievably accurate. For classes that don't have ARs without sacrificing something else, Locust is about as good as it gets for a full auto. Hell on my latest non NG+ Infiltrator I'm practically using it as a main weapon.

[Kronner]

Hence "it is a great gun". It is balanced by the small clip. Tempest is better for CQC, Locust for mid-range. Still, it is SMG. Mattock/Viper are much better against pretty much anything. So I would not call Locust OP.

Modifié par Kronner, 11 septembre 2010 - 09:53 .

[All-a-Mort]

Comrade Bork wrote...
There is a reason LMGs were developed: to fit the perfect gunner role in a squad. This idea was first tried heavily with the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle), but it was heavy, and had a low ammo capacity. Then after WWII, the M60 was another shot at a squad-integral LMG, but like the BAR, was missing something. Many more ideas floated around, but one gun game back as the supreme LMG for the last 20+ years: The SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon). That weapon is a little wonder gun, and has served in the US Armed Services since its introduction. It has all of the benefits of a machine gun (fire rate, belt-fed, etc.), with the benefits of an AR (Uses the same ammunition that an M16 uses, lightweight, can take the magazines in an emergency, etc.). There is a reason why squads don't lug around heavy MGs anymore. Sorry, I just love LMGs. :happy:

Now I think Zaeed should have been able to unlock the Revenant (like Grunt can get the Claymore, and Legion can get the Widow). Also, I think they should have made the Revenant more accurate, but a lttle less powerful.

Disclaimer: I'm drunk. Not much different to normal mind due.

Yeah dude, i know the history of light machine guns. I agree with a previous poster commenting about how the rev should be fired in short bursts, as I believe modern LMG and MG gunners are instructed. I'm not suggesting that a heavy machineguns be made useable as a standard weapon (besides which I thought the 7.62mm M60 and it's successor the M240 (I'll use US nomenclature in this case despite being a Brit) were considered to be either company or platoon level weapons, unlike the SAW which features in every fireteam). I was merely commenting that to my mind the Revenant is a flawed concept, in that squad mates can't use it to provide supressing fire like in say the Brothers In Arms series (well, before they ruined it) and as a player weapon as a LMG its accuracy is too poor at the range a real world LMG operates at (would be useful as say a Vanguard or other CQC style weaponry short class to have a squad with decent ability to keep enemy heads down), so a more accurate heavy version might be a more functional use of the machinegun concept. But then the range at which the player uses sniper rifles isn't really the correct range either I suppose since the majority of the game is played either in structures or in seriously small outside areas with atmospheric limits on visibility.

Modifié par All-a-Mort, 11 septembre 2010 - 11:57 .

[mosor]

Sorry guys. I couldn't disagree more. The revenant is an excellent weapon. You just have to be aggressive and it will be a killing machine. If you want to sit back at a distance or behind cover, between the mattock, GPS (great one shot kills with heightened AR at medium distance') and the viper/widow, you should do well and never run out of ammo if you switch your guns.

However the revvy is made for assaulting positions. It means getting close and mowing enemies down. On harder difficulties, it means someone casting area overload, someone else a flashbang/concussive blast, and you running and mopping up the group. The revvy will allow you to mop up 4 to 6 enemies easily once they've been stripped without being in serious danger. It all boils down to playstyle though. I'm usually hyper agressive, so that influences my preferences.

Modifié par mosor, 12 septembre 2010 - 12:24 .

[Comrade Bork]

All-a-Mort wrote...
Disclaimer: I'm drunk. Not much different to normal mind due.

Yeah dude, i know the history of light machine guns. I agree with a previous poster commenting about how the rev should be fired in short bursts, as I believe modern LMG and MG gunners are instructed. I'm not suggesting that a heavy machineguns be made useable as a standard weapon (besides which I thought the 7.62mm M60 and it's successor the M240 (I'll use US nomenclature in this case despite being a Brit) were considered to be either company or platoon level weapons, unlike the SAW which features in every fireteam). I was merely commenting that to my mind the Revenant is a flawed concept, in that squad mates can't use it to provide supressing fire like in say the Brothers In Arms series (well, before they ruined it) and as a player weapon as a LMG its accuracy is too poor at the range a real world LMG operates at (would be useful as say a Vanguard or other CQC style weaponry short class to have a squad with decent ability to keep enemy heads down), so a more accurate heavy version might be a more functional use of the machinegun concept. But then the range at which the player uses sniper rifles isn't really the correct range either I suppose since the majority of the game is played either in structures or in seriously small outside areas with atmospheric limits on visibility.

I too would like at least one Squaddie to get the weapon (preferably Zaeed and/or Garrus). I do feel that, with a little tweak, it fits the role of the LMG. It just needs to do lightly less damage, and a significant accuracy increase for it to be perfect in my eyes.

[searanox]

The Revenant demolishes anything on normal difficulty. On the higher difficulties, especially insanity, the accuracy becomes a bit of an issue. Similar to how Biotics and Engineers are amazing on low difficulties but the only really viable class later on is Vanguard or Soldier.

[The Spamming Troll]

JaegerBane wrote...

To be fair, that is the reason why the Locust has such a small clip. It's clearly intended to emulate Pistols with Master Marksman from the ME1 days.

thats the first thing i thought when i shot the locust.

[Alamar2078]

I wouldn't say "the Engineer isn't a viable class". I think it's a very easy class to play even on instanity ... it just doesn't match the kill speed of an expert Vanguard or even Soldier usually.



As for the Revvy it can be effective but your skill to make it effective has to be MUCH higher than your skill with the Mattock. With the Mattock you can sit back and kill safely && quickly from practically any distance you feel like. With the Revvy you have to learn how to burst fire ; you have to learn to control kick ; you have to have high knowledge of the map / spawn points / waves / etc. so you're in the perfect spot but don't get overrun ; etc....



For me I can't really go back to the Revvy because it's soooooo much work compared to the Mattock that's it's not really worth the effort.



FYI: I used to be a Revvy fanboy.

[numotsbane]

searanox wrote...

The Revenant demolishes anything on normal difficulty. On the higher difficulties, especially insanity, the accuracy becomes a bit of an issue. Similar to how Biotics and Engineers are amazing on low difficulties but the only really viable class later on is Vanguard or Soldier.

There's no such thing as a non viable class on insanity. Soldier is easy, sure, but insanity isn't particularly difficult anyway and with the correct playstyle any class can excel. all you need to do is dig up Average gatsby's insanity guides and i can guarantee you'll have no trouble. but this is derailment, So I'll stop.

I'm repeating myself, but i don't get the love for the revenant either. its just not that good. I'd much prefer a gun like the mattock almost anyday, and especially on a soldier with the AR benefits. if you could get the revenant on adept and hose everything in a pull field or singularity with warp ammo fire... well, that would be glorious. but sadly its a glorious impossibility without modding.

[shn_mrtn]

Modifié par shn_mrtn, 22 juin 2012 - 11:02 .

[numotsbane]

... you can neve destoy the statue of liberty? do you mean in Hocks basement? or are you just being a tad random...

[shn_mrtn]

Modifié par shn_mrtn, 22 juin 2012 - 11:02 .

[numotsbane]

I suppose. doesn't seem like that big a deal. Maybe its an American thing...

edit: Why do i end up taking everything off-topic? *sigh*

Modifié par numotsbane, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:40 .

[shn_mrtn]

Modifié par shn_mrtn, 22 juin 2012 - 11:02 .

[JaegerBane]

numotsbane wrote...
if you could get the revenant on adept and hose everything in a pull field or singularity with warp ammo fire... well, that would be glorious. but sadly its a glorious impossibility without modding.

Trust me, it is indeed glorious. One of the main reasons why I'm not a fan of specific weapon restrictions. I've no problem with actual weapon-type proficiencies being handed out on a class/collector ship basis but actually restricting access to individual guns just seems like an unnecessary block on player choice. It's not like having access to things like the Rev breaks the gameplay or whatever.