203 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Speed would be the reason I'll try to to stop the over Quoting

No I didn't mean this forum as in the users, I meant this forum as in the forum software. Most forums I've ever participated in only quote the one person, not the entirety of the conversation up to the person you quoted.

[Shadow_broker]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Uh, you as well. Learn to read, for god's sake. I said the order was Samara, Mornith, Liara, Jack. Did that not get through to you?

Which is exactly my point. There's no way in hell Liara is stronger than Jack.
Your opinion on biotics is biased because you <3 Liara and hate Jack

Did I say I hate Jack? No. You are infering things. I said she was hollow, I didn't say I hated her.

Besides, I don't "love" Liara," She's a freaking bunch of indents and flat planes on a disc. Nothing more. A great character, sure. But nothing more than that.

You mispelt "Inferring"
Also some Grammatical errors in there
Yes your ratio is now .004 mwuhahaha

Yes you probaly don't love Liara, but your opion is still likley very biased as you see jack as a hollow Cliche Character (i agree on the cliche though) On the otherhand Liara is likley your favorite Squadmate in the series since you have claimed her picture as your avatar. 
But you're right on the most part as my father once said "assumptions are the Source of all Majior f*** ups"

[Unit-Alpha]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Uh, you as well. Learn to read, for god's sake. I said the order was Samara, Mornith, Liara, Jack. Did that not get through to you?

Which is exactly my point. There's no way in hell Liara is stronger than Jack.
Your opinion on biotics is biased because you <3 Liara and hate Jack

Did I say I hate Jack? No. You are inferring things. I said she was hollow, I didn't say I hated her.

Besides, I don't "love" Liara," She's a freaking bunch of indents and flat planes on a disc. Nothing more. A great character, sure. But nothing more than that.

You mispelt "Inferring"
Also some Grammatical errors in there
Yes your ratio is now .004 mwuhahaha

Yes you probaly don't love Liara, but your opion is still likley very biased as you see jack as a hollow Cliche Character (i agree on the cliche though) On the otherhand Liara is likley your favorite Squadmate in the series since you have claimed her picture as your avatar. 
But you're right on the most part as my father once said "assumptions are the Source of all Majior f*** ups"

I suppose I did. That's because for some reason Firefox doesn't give me spell check when I do full reply. I tend to make spelling errors on 4 hours of sleep as well

Liara is my favorite, sure, but I will accept whatever is stated in writing or dialog by Bioware about the characters. If I had all the awesome stuff that was in cutscenes, it would be amazing. Sadly, no. I'm glad we agree on the assumption thing, though.

[AresXX7]

Storywise, etc.- for me is:

1. Samara (is compared to an Asari Matriarch - 600+ years to evolve her abilities)
(tie)
1. Morinth (because her "condition" allows her powers to equal Samara's - 400+ years to evolve her abilities)
2. Liara (highly evolved natural pedigree)
3. Jack (highest among humans/scientifically enhanced - but not natural  like Asari)
4. Wrex (experienced Battlemaster - combination of combat/biotic tatics - lowers focus some) 
5. Shep (exceeds L3 implant expectations/can have an L5x implant in ME2 - as an adept)
(tie)
5. Miranda (genetic modifications)
6. Kaidan (shows that, while implanted with an outdated L2 model, still exceeds expectations)
7. Jacob (has mental focus - but, uses biotics semi-regularly in combat)
8. Thane (has biotic skills, but uses other methods in profession more - assassinations by neck-breaking, sniping, etc.) 

These are just opinions, based on my observations, reading codexes, and gameplay/cutscenes.

I try not to compare the cutscenes with gameplay, too much, because they always make for a better visual showing, of anyone's abilities, vs what actually goes, on during the gameplay battles.

Modifié par AriesXX7, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:41 .

[Unit-Alpha]

AriesXX7 wrote...

Storywise, etc.- for me is:

1. Samara (is compared to an Asari Matriarch - 600+ years to evolve her abilities)
(tie)
1. Morinth (because her "condition" allows her powers to equal Samara's - 400+ years to evolve her abilities)
2. Liara (highly evolved natural pedigree)
3. Jack (highest among humans/scientifically enhanced - but not natural like Asari)
4. Wrex (experienced Battlemaster - combination of combat/biotic tatics - lowers focus some) 
5. Shep (exceeds L3 implant expectations/can have an L5x implant in ME2 - as an adept)
(tie)
5. Miranda (genetic modifications)
6. Kaidan (shows that, while implanted with an outdated L2 model, still exceeds expectations)
7. Jacob (has mental focus - but, uses biotics semi-regularly in combat)
8. Thane (has biotic skills, but uses other methods in profession more - assassinations by neck-breaking, sniping, etc.) 

These are just opinions, based on my observations, reading codexes, and gameplay/cutscenes.

I try not to compare the cutscenes with gameplay, too much, because they always make for a better visual showing, of anyone's abilities, vs what actually goes, on during the gameplay battles.

I think yours is pretty good. Wrex is a questionable one for me. We really don't get the full extent of his biotics, or so I believe. However, it's hard to tell.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

hawat333 wrote...


Tier 2:
Miranda,
Liara (she may have raw strength but lacks the experience of a trained and tried asari like Samara... yet),
Kaidan (those L2 implants flare high. @ RGFrog: Actually, that's the point. It's outdated. The newer L3 or L4 implants are somewhat weaker as they were made to be more safe. It's even mentioned in ME1 if you play an Adept. L2s are stronger the newer, updated biotics, but also have nasty side effects. Except for Shepard, who, despite being an L3 is stronger than even most L2s.)
Adept Shepard (Because hey, he's de big goddamn hero)

I would like to see a source on that, because AFAIK that's blatantly wrong. The L2 implants were focused on being safer (and also weaker) than the previous "pioneer" L1 generation, but all subsequent L-series implants boosted stats across the board, from what I've gathered. It wouldn't make much sense to make weaker L-implants as the technology improves to the point where you can amplify a person's biotic ability while being safe for the user.

Kaiden was unique because he is an exceptional L2 with abilities comparable to an L1. I would rank an Adept/Vanguard/Sentinel Shepherd and Miranda higher than Kaiden, and put him in the same class as Jacob.  

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:49 .

[Estelindis]

DarthCaine wrote...

In terms of storyline?

Jack
Samara
Morinth
Liara
Kaidan
Miranda
Jacob
Wrex
Thane

I pretty much agree with this (although I'm not 100% about Jack being more powerful than Samara). 

In ME2, the factor determining whether one is a top-tier biotic is definitely the biotic bubble. 

In terms of deciding the distribution of characters between the various lower tiers, I tend to take two factors into account:
1) whether or not the character is a "full" biotic (e.g. Liara in ME1);
2) how much the character's biotic ability is emphasised by the story (e.g. Kaidan's is emphaised quite firmly; Miranda mentions biotics as one aspect of her genetic improvement among many others; Wrex's biotics never come up storywise, but solely in gameplay terms).

Some aspects of gameplay simply can't be compared between games.  "Half biotic" ME1 characters like Kaidan and Wrex have access to more biotic powers than "full biotic" characters in ME2.  Accordingly, I tend not to place much emphasis on power access, but more on what the story tells us about the squad's biotics.

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

hawat333 wrote...
Actually, that's the point. It's outdated. The newer L3 or L4 implants are somewhat weaker as they were made to be more safe.

I would like to see a source on that, because AFAIK that's blatantly wrong. The L2 implants were focused on being safer (and also weaker) than the previous generation

Do you perhaps mean "The L3 implants were focused on being safer (and also weaker)"?  Because, while what you wrote may simply have been a typo, it is nonetheless blatantly wrong.

Modifié par Estelindis, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:03 .

[The Grey Ranger]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

hawat333 wrote...


Tier 2:
Miranda,
Liara (she may have raw strength but lacks the experience of a trained and tried asari like Samara... yet),
Kaidan (those L2 implants flare high. @ RGFrog: Actually, that's the point. It's outdated. The newer L3 or L4 implants are somewhat weaker as they were made to be more safe. It's even mentioned in ME1 if you play an Adept. L2s are stronger the newer, updated biotics, but also have nasty side effects. Except for Shepard, who, despite being an L3 is stronger than even most L2s.)
Adept Shepard (Because hey, he's de big goddamn hero)

I would like to see a source on that, because AFAIK that's blatantly wrong. The L2 implants were focused on being safer (and also weaker) than the previous generation, but all subsequent L-series implants boosted stats across the board, from what I've gathered. It wouldn't make much sense to make weaker L-implants as time progresses, and the technology improves where you can amplify a person's biotic ability while being safe for the user.

After a series of starship accidents in the 2150s, which dispersed element zero over various settlements, the first human biotics were born, though not all were initially detected. By the time the children were teenagers, the Alliance had realised the enormous military potential of biotics through contact with the Citadel, and set up a company called Conatix Industries  to develop implants for humans and track down element zero exposures. There are rumours that, after the link between element zero and biotics was made, some human colonies may have been deliberately exposed under cover of 'industrial accidents'.
Kaidan Alenko
In 2160 Conatix established the BAaT programme on Jump Zero, quietly hiring turian mercenaries as teachers, but after one of these instructors, Commander Vyrnnus, died, BAaT was shut down. The Alliance military eventually set up other training programmes to handle biotics, but the records pertaining to BAaT remain classified. Later projects would prove more successful. Human biotics currently have some oversight from the Alliance Parliamentary Subcommittee for Transhuman Studies.

Most modern human biotics use the Alliance's L3 implant, which is safe to use but not particularly powerful. However, some older biotics are stuck with L2 implants, which allow abilities to spike higher - using an L2 implant, Kaidan Alenko's abilities are apparently comparable to an asari's - but at a cost. L2 implants are notorious for causing medical complications such as insanity, mental impairment, or extreme physical pain. It is possible to 'upgrade' from an L2 to an L3 implant, but the procedure is unethical because it carries a high risk of brain damage. Many L2s are angry at the way the Alliance has - in their view - abandoned them and want reparations for their suffering. In some cases, extreme physical or psychological stress can cause even stable biotic implants to flare up and cause similar health problems.

Human biotics can face prejudice from those who are religiously or philosophically opposed to their physiological modifications. This is mostly due to ignorance: some people (wrongly) believe that biotics can read and control people's minds. There have also been cases of biotics who misuse their abilities - cheating at roulette, for example, or playing practical jokes like pulling people's chairs out from under them - being attacked by frightened mobs, and sometimes even killed.

Despite these concerns, the Alliance military welcomes biotics with open arms and offers huge recruitment incentives. Because of the massive physical efforts involved in biologically generating dark energy, biotic soldiers have a larger daily calorie ration and are given energy drinks to keep their blood sugar and electrolytes up. The electrical fields in their bodies mean they are also prone to small static discharges when they touch metal.

Source http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Biotics

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Ah I see. Yes, I was wrong. The L2 implants were the wild cannons, not L1. If that's the case, then it would make more sense for Kaiden to be in the same class as Shepherd (or a bit weaker, depending on performance of the L5 series), weaker than Jack and stronger than Miranda/Jacob.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:57 .

[Siansonea]

So, is this the "Shadow_broker likes Jack the best therefore Jack is the most powerful biotic" thread? Because that's the impression I'm getting.

I like Samara the best. OBVIOUSLY she's the most powerful biotic...

[Estelindis]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...
Ah I see. Yes, I was wrong. The L2 implants were the wild cannons, not L1. If that's the case, then it would make more sense for Kaiden to be in the same class as Shepherd (or a bit weaker, depending on performance of the L5 series), weaker than Jack and stronger than Miranda/Jacob.

Someone acknowledging an inconsequential error on the internet in a reserved and polite fashion? Call me a doctor!  (We have another one directly to hand now, with LotSB.)  :-)

Modifié par Estelindis, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:14 .

[Lewie]

People will bias what they think on characters they like not soley information/codex etc. I would say, place Samara as the most powerful due to her lifespan, experience, fortitude and sheer will. I would think Jack and Kaidan are extremely powerful only because of their implants, and it may be a bad thing because it makes them dangerous. Liara is powerful, and strong willed, yet young she would probably be at Samaras level over time. I would put Thane as the weakest, he is soley an assassin. I would put Wrex at the bottom sheerly because he is a krogan and its an insult. Miranda and Jacob are on par both powerful but simply more stable as purely human, normal biotics. Jeez you people read into things too much *falls down*.

[OTFSTW]

The notion that gameplay and story are some how not linked in anyway still has me confused.

Concessions are made for each in the name of the other and the only way to know for sure which was more important (still not separate) is to read the minds of everyone involved in the product's creation.

I also find it funny that some squadies are still considered "bad". Anyone with pull is instant gold, especially. Jack and Jacob make a great team.

Edit: Story "evidence" for why Jack is the worst biotic: the scene with Miranda where she lazily tosses a chair while screaming with fury. Languid enough to make M Night Shyamalan's Earth Benders proud.

Modifié par OTFSTW, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:42 .

[Trintrin86]

Here are my original reasoning -

Tier 1

Samara- Due to age, experience, and the natural asari affinity for biotics/Morinth because she able to hold Samara to a stalemate in the loyalty quest

Liara/Jack - I actually think they are on the same level, especially after playing through Lair of the Shadow Broker. Yes Jack went psycho angry and took out the base in her recruitment, but Liara has had longer to refine her skills. Liara also has the natural asari affinity. Even if Jack currently strips Liara in raw strength Liara ultimately has more potential over time. Also, I don't believe that Jack is capable of completing "The Long Walk" of the suicide mission without her updated implant, I have a somewhat irrational belief that Liara probably could have if she had been with the party (no I have no basis for this, hence why I say irrational)

Tier 2:

Here us where I think there is a noticeable break in ability. If we use "The Long Walk" of the suicide mission as a marker, I don't think any of the following could hold the field to the end (and story/gameplay reinforces this)

Adept Shepard - Because s/he is tolkd by Kaidan that s/he's more powerful and I just don't see Miranda being more powerful than Adept Shep.

Kaidan/Miranda - I honestly don't think that anyone would have mentioned anything about Kaidan's abilities if they weren't *noticeably* better than a "normal" human's. Storywise, he may be a hybrid class, but he states that prior to the events of ME1 he held himself back because he was afraid of hurting people. Miranda is a bit of a toss up because she was "constructed" and she doesn't have the same problems with causing harm with her biotics. She's also likely had the L5 upgrade, and we don't know how that compres to the L2. She's also a hybrid class so that's why I put them on par with Kaidan slightly more powerful.

Tier 3:

Wrex - After reading the comments and thinking about it some more, I agree that Wrex is likely more powerful than both Jacob and Thane. However, I think the fearsomeness Krogan Battlemaster come less from people saying "Oh no! Look at that display of biotic ability" it's more "HOLY SH!T IT'S A KROGAN AND IT HAS BIOTICS!!! ::drool in terror::"

Jacob -By the Mass Effect Wiki, Jacob is 28 and which means that he is most likely an Alliance trained L3 biotic unless he has a retrofit, that would make him weaker than the rest of the human biotic squadmates.

Thane - Biotics on him seem to be almost an afterthought. I would venture that he probably has just enough ability to be useful.

Modifié par Trintrin86, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:45 .

[RGFrog]

Jack, it is specifically stated, as the only human biotic that is getting stronger as her system decays.
She probably has L2 implants, as her childhood tampering happened before or during the same time as Kaiden who has the powerful but crappy L2's.

However, the L5x implant is a power booster. Not a replacement for L2 or L3. I look at it as a multiplier. Thus the X edit: The wiki and the game codex differ on this as Jack's upgrade is a power booster, but the wiki claims adepts/vanguards are L5X/L5N implants indicating Shep is more powerful than jack until her upgrade???.

So, Jack is far more powerful than Kaiden. Sadly, she's also a hot head and more likely to burn out. For all her years of running, she's still rage motivated and in my book, that makes her less likely to be able to control her biotics after the adrenaline wears off.

It's pretty much a known fact that humans are newcomers to biotics and, as powerful as jack may seem, are nothing compared to Asari.

So, game and story wise, pretty much any assari that's been trained (i.e. commando, spectre, etc.) is likely to be better at effectively using biotics as weapons. This places Samara at the top of the list as the only combat trained assari in the bunch. Nothing is said with regards to her power, but she's gone toe to toe with a lot of badasses and has proven she has the experience to make her biotics win. Win against specters (nihlus, although not a kill but she wasn't killed either), and against other biotic wielding assari.

Morinth, just for being ardat yakshi (sp?) is right up there as well and pretty much for the same reasons.

Jack is stil Tier 1 mainly because when she throws a tantrum she is an almighty !female k9!,  no doubt about it. Samara would have a serious fight if they got down to brass tacks. At least for the first few minutes.

Adept Shep, with or without teammates, is also up there. Irregardless of who was with him, he's taken down Bennezia, Saren, Sovereign, and EVERY biotic in ME2, which frankly have been more powerful than ME1's biotic adversaries. So, while you may not like it, Adept Shep is only a hair less powerful than jack and that's only because jack's powers are constantly on the increase.

Liara exists in this group because she's assari, she's displayed that her biotics and techniques are better than her peers, and she's been on the hunt for the last couple of years honing the skills behind the power. That she doesn't have rage behind her usage also means I'd put money on her winning vs. Jack any day.

In the end, the only real position that matters is Jacob being in last place. His biotic use is an afterthought at best as he's really only in it for "THE PRIZE"!!!

Modifié par RGFrog, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[PsyrenY]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Gameplay and Story are two completley diffrent matters, Shepard would not be the best biotic in the galaxy even if hes an adept

Why not? My Sole Survivor Colonist Adept has been through as much **** as Jack. In fact, it was his ability to freeze Thresher Maws (he was a Bastion) that saved him on Akuze.

RGFrog wrote...

However, the LX5 implant is a power booster. Not a replacement for L2 or L3. I look at it as a multiplier. Thus the X.

It's L5x actually, not LX5. The current standard is L5n, and her L5x mod is a step beyond that. The X does not necessarily represent a multiplier.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[RGFrog]

Optimystic_X wrote...

RGFrog wrote...
However, the LX5 implant is a power booster. Not a replacement for L2 or L3. I look at it as a multiplier. Thus the X.

It's L5x actually, not LX5. The current standard is L5n, and her L5x mod is a step beyond that. The X does not necessarily represent a multiplier.

Yeah, just read the wiki on that... see edit above lx5 was a typo

However, the L5x implant is a power booster. Not a replacement for L2 or L3. I look at it as a multiplier. Thus the X edit: The wiki and the game codex differ on this as Jack's upgrade is a power booster, but the wiki claims adepts/vanguards are L5X/L5N implants indicating Shep is more powerful than jack until her upgrade???.

Modifié par RGFrog, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:58 .

[lazuli]

Siansonea II wrote...

I find Samara very powerful in-game, if you ignore Pull and fully evolve Asari Justicar (Caedo or Sapiens), Throw (I prefer Throw Field) and Reave (I prefer Heavy Reave). By contrast, Jack's powers are often stymied by shields/barriers/armor/etc. Reave is useful against a lot of different defenses, and also immobilizes the target for a few seconds. By contrast, Jack's loyalty power is an Ammo power, rather than another biotic power. I'd say that alone knocks her out of the top spot. I would say she is more powerful than Shepard though.

It all comes down to who Shepard is.  Jack fits well with a Sentinel or an Adept Shepard, providing Squad Warp Ammo and the first half of a Warp Bomb.  I think what hurts Jack more than having an ammo power as her bonus power is Shockwave.  The 3 points you need to sink into Shockwave mean that you're never going to get all three of her best features in the same build: Squad Warp Ammo, maximum cooldown reduction, and Pull Field.  Samara suffers from a similar problem.  She offers so much, but you can't get it all in one build.

Funny that Jacob, ranked as a low level Biotic, is the only character in ME2 capable of using Pull without a prerequisite power.  Not even Adept Shepard* has that flexibility.


*I am well aware of the advantages Singularity, available at level 1, has over Pull. 

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

yorkj86 wrote...
Shockwave kind of works, but what the heck does Warp Ammo have to do with anything? Yes, it demonstrates incredible biotic skill, but Slam seems more like her style, or, better yet, some kind of awesome Pull-then-biotic-Falcon-Punch.

IMO, Warp ammo is just ammo - I just don't see even the most skilled biotic consciously enveloping every speeding bullet fired from their gun in a miniature Warp field. This is supported by the fact that you can disable one's ability to use biotics by taking out their arms, which is described in an article in Thane's dossier on how he kills Asaris. It seems that you cannot generate Warp/ME fields just by thinking about it, and there is no arm movement when either Shepherd or his companions are firing Warp ammo.

Jack could have a modified Shadowstrike (like Kasumi). Except that instead of cloaking behind an enemy, Jack can charge them, strike, and charge back. 

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:36 .

[Spectre_907]

Cutscenes are irrelevant and tend to contradict story, codex, dossiers, dialogue, or gameplay, which are more important for me. It is hard to come up with a linear ranking as there are too many factors to think of (like rate of mass effect fields one can create, power of biotic fields, versatility, etc.) but here is my crude ranking of biotic specialists. Here I assume Shepard is an adept:

Shepard - An fully upgraded adept Shepard is basically a slightly toned down Harbinger and Harbinger is more powerful than a hundred Jacks in cutscenes. Shepard can create mass effect fields at an unsurpassed rate due to cybernetic augmentation from the Lazarus project as an L5x, maintain mass effect fields longer than Liara and Kaidan as an L3 due to Spectre training. As an L3 with specialist training (bastion or nemesis) Shepard surpasses Liara in terms of rate of generation and power (respectively) of mass effect fields. Shepard has more abilities and combat experience then nearly all biotic squadmates as an L5x and is more than capable of taking on a platoon of asari commandos or an asari matriarch singlehandedly as an L3.

Liara - can generate mass effect fields at the same rate and power as Shepard as an L3 biotic without specialist training, number of biotic abilities match those of Shepard's at her younger (relatively) age. Less experienced than Samara or Shepard yet has the same finesse. Ignoring Shepard's experience, cybernetic enhancements, and Spectre training, I would put her before Shepard because she is younger than him/her (relatively!) so she has more pure talent. But ignoring that, Shepard is stronger.

Samara - Since she only has pull and throw, I will assume she is adept at mass-lowering fields but not at distortion or mass-raising fields. She possesses a unique ability to biotically affect nervous systems that Shepard does not have. I would assume she is not able to create singularities (likely due to lack of mass-raising abilities like stasis or barrier) like Shepard or Liara. Aside from Shepard's higher rate or generation of biotic fields, I would rank her on the same level as Shepard, maybe higher due to her experience, though Shepard has fought far more dangerous enemies than Samara and is likely better with spatial distortion. Samara will likely have more finesse and skill with mass-lowering fields than Shepard for being able to hone her abilities longer. She seems more like an older and more experienced asari commando which I think Shepard and Liara match in terms of skill. Since she lacks the biotic focus of Shepard and Liara in terms of use of abilities, she goes here.

Jack - has a statistically higher damage than all biotics in the squad and can generate mass effect fields at the same rate as Samara and Liara. Aside from that, I see her more as someone who spikes higher than Shepard, Liara, and Samara in terms of raw biotic power yet lacks their finesse.

I only rank the biotic specialists as I can't really compare the non-biotic specialists.

[GodWood]

Spectre_907 wrote...
Cutscenes are irrelevant and tend to contradict story, codex, dossiers, dialogue, or gameplay, which are more important for me.

Well then what is important to you is wrong.
Gameplay is designed to be fun for the player to play, its not a true representation of the games lore and the abilities of the characters.
You can't seriously think that people like Samara who have lived for like a 1000 years or Jack who is said to be the most powerful human biotic can only do 2-3 biotic attacks.
And you can't possibly think that Shepard is the only one capable of using a variety of biotic attacks, its for gameplay reasons nothing more.

@ everyone else, Liara is not that strong a biotic.

[flem1]

sinosleep wrote...

I mean ****,  take away the bubble and go by nothing but cut scenes and Samara doesn't look particularly good either. She beats up some random merc and Morinth.

Check out the video archive:  she pulls a car out of midair.

[Lewie]

yorkj86 wrote...

Whatever else Jack had done to her at Teltin makes her extremely powerful, beyond just biotic implants. I do think her biotics are stronger than Shepard's.

EDIT: Newer models of implants don't necessarily indicate power increase, but a balance of power and safety.  With Jack, for example, the scientists weren't looking for safety as much as they were looking for power, as long as it wouldn't kill her.  This might be why she has such incredible, raw power, but suffers from the associated neural degeneration.

This is what made me think that Jack and Kaidan may have more power than you realise, kaidan suffered migraines and lost his temper killing a man, but his own power scared him, so he holds back. They both have a bad side effect neurally. It can't really be placed or defined by their character if that were the case Wrex would be top being a krogan lol. Asari are very strong mentally which puts Liara, samara and Morinth on par together. Its figuring out if it is due to simply the implant, their race, conditioning whatever.