If Sheppard is a biotic I alway assumed that the rebuild Sheppard in ME2 is stronger than in ME1.
So in ME1 Sheppard would be tier 2 and in ME2 tier 1 bellow Samara/Morinth/Jack.
Aren't the L5 (L5n for Sheppard/Vanguard, L5x for Sheppard/Adept) implants prototypes exclusively used in the Lazarus Project? I may be wrong but it would be logical.
Squad Biotics- In order of Strength
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Trintrin86
, sept. 08 2010 11:00
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#152
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 02:19
RGFrog
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Perhaps, their also the implants Jack has for her loyalty... the description about her loyalty upgrade makes the L5x seem more like a booster rather than a replacement, though.
#153
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 02:21
RGFrog
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yorkj86 wrote...
That does make sense, unless whatever was done to Jack couldn't be done to Shepard without posing to him the same hazards that the procedures pose to Jack. In that respect, Shepard could be lacking that power, or he could have been granted that power in other ways, but the ceiling of limits of his biotic abilities may not be as high.
Seein as how it's clearly stated that Jack gets stronger as she deteriorates, in the end she'll be pretty strong. But will there be anything left to control that strength or will she merely turn to dust with one final rage fest?
#154
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 04:49
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RGFrog wrote...
yorkj86 wrote...
That does make sense, unless whatever was done to Jack couldn't be done to Shepard without posing to him the same hazards that the procedures pose to Jack. In that respect, Shepard could be lacking that power, or he could have been granted that power in other ways, but the ceiling of limits of his biotic abilities may not be as high.
Seein as how it's clearly stated that Jack gets stronger as she deteriorates, in the end she'll be pretty strong. But will there be anything left to control that strength or will she merely turn to dust with one final rage fest?
We don't know. "Neural degeneration" is kind of vague. It could just give her mild headaches, as with Kaiden, or it could leave with her Alzheimer's-like symptoms. The latter would be terribly tragic for the Shepard who has romanced her.
Modifié par yorkj86, 15 septembre 2010 - 04:50 .
#155
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 07:48
Niemroth
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Or the neural degeneration of Jack could lead to aggression and violent behavior.
Modifié par Niemroth, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:48 .
#156
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 06:52
Spectre_907
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I'm thinking it means neural degeneration as in the actual medical term. She could develop such conditions like Alzheimer's if that is the case. I would also claim that such a result is simply an advantage over neurodegenerative biotics. That really wouldn't set her apart from most of the human biotics. Unless all human biotics showed signs of neurodegeneration.yorkj86 wrote...
RGFrog wrote...
yorkj86 wrote...
That does make sense, unless whatever was done to Jack couldn't be done to Shepard without posing to him the same hazards that the procedures pose to Jack. In that respect, Shepard could be lacking that power, or he could have been granted that power in other ways, but the ceiling of limits of his biotic abilities may not be as high.
Seein as how it's clearly stated that Jack gets stronger as she deteriorates, in the end she'll be pretty strong. But will there be anything left to control that strength or will she merely turn to dust with one final rage fest?
We don't know. "Neural degeneration" is kind of vague. It could just give her mild headaches, as with Kaiden, or it could leave with her Alzheimer's-like symptoms. The latter would be terribly tragic for the Shepard who has romanced her.
Modifié par Spectre_907, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:04 .
#157
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 06:52
Spectre_907
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If memory serves, the description claims that it is her bio-amp you replace, not the actual implant yet Jack claims you are replacing her implant.RGFrog wrote...
Perhaps, their also the implants Jack has for her loyalty... the description about her loyalty upgrade makes the L5x seem more like a booster rather than a replacement, though.
#158
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 08:27
Zeus_Deus
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I think Samara is more powerful than Jack and the reason for this is due to a story which Samara reveals to Shepherd if you keep talking to her.
She tells you about how in her past she went up against a Turian Spectre - Nihilus (from ME1 - one of the Council's most decorated Spectres).
Nihilus was able to escape by creating a situation where Samara had to choose between saving an innocent life or capturing him.
I doubt Jack ever had to face an opponent of that calibre.
She tells you about how in her past she went up against a Turian Spectre - Nihilus (from ME1 - one of the Council's most decorated Spectres).
Nihilus was able to escape by creating a situation where Samara had to choose between saving an innocent life or capturing him.
I doubt Jack ever had to face an opponent of that calibre.
#159
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 10:26
fongiel24
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We don't really know if Samara is exceptionally strong in biotics for an asari - only that she's better trained. I suspect Samara is above average, but not remarkably so. It's her discipline and control that make her seem more powerful, not natural biotic ability.
Jack is the opposite. Jack is an order of magnitude more powerful than any other known human biotic but likely has little formal training in controlling her biotic ability. A lot of her strength is probably wasted potential that she won't be able to harness until she gets specialized training.
So if I were ranking Samara and Jack, I'd put Samara over Jack in terms of precision and control but Jack over Samara if we're talking about raw power.
Jack is the opposite. Jack is an order of magnitude more powerful than any other known human biotic but likely has little formal training in controlling her biotic ability. A lot of her strength is probably wasted potential that she won't be able to harness until she gets specialized training.
So if I were ranking Samara and Jack, I'd put Samara over Jack in terms of precision and control but Jack over Samara if we're talking about raw power.
#160
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 12:13
drunken pyromaniac
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I've always thought you can't really measure some of the biotic squadmate's power. It seems rather situational to me. In an open, controlled environment, I'd say Samara, Kaidan, Miranda, and such would be very effective. While in a closed-in environment or in a more chaotic one, Jack or Wrex might be more effective with their raw, brutal power.
I think of it as if between a shotgun and a sniper rifle. Both extremely effective but in different situations.
I think of it as if between a shotgun and a sniper rifle. Both extremely effective but in different situations.
Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 16 septembre 2010 - 12:14 .
#161
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:09
PWENER
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Why is Shepard in third place? He can use charge, the most powerful biotic power ever. No other squadmate has it. Tela Vasir does, and she's a total badass.
#162
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:16
yummysoap
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I'd have to say storywise Jack seems by far the most powerful, though it's possible Samara would be moreso if we ever saw her in some psychotic rage like Jack was on Purgatory.
If that sort of insane power was included in regular gameplay Shepard would never have to fire a shot with those two around and it would totally ruin any sense of danger. Gameplay and story aren't comparable, imo
If that sort of insane power was included in regular gameplay Shepard would never have to fire a shot with those two around and it would totally ruin any sense of danger. Gameplay and story aren't comparable, imo
Modifié par yummysoap, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:17 .
#164
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:21
clennon8
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It's been a while, but I seem to remember in ME1, when you're conversing with Kaidan, he'll mention that he's one of the strongest biotic humans "except for you, of course" if Shepard is a biotic.
Adept Shepard is probably the strongest known biotic humanoid.
Of the squadmates, I'd rank Liara #1, which is impressive given her youth.
After that, it's a toss-up between Samara and Jack.
Btw, something you should all keep in mind is that the squadmate abilities you're able to utilize in combat are not comprehensive. They can do other things with their biotics. BioWare was just streamlining the available powers for the sake of simplifying gameplay.
Adept Shepard is probably the strongest known biotic humanoid.
Of the squadmates, I'd rank Liara #1, which is impressive given her youth.
After that, it's a toss-up between Samara and Jack.
Btw, something you should all keep in mind is that the squadmate abilities you're able to utilize in combat are not comprehensive. They can do other things with their biotics. BioWare was just streamlining the available powers for the sake of simplifying gameplay.
#165
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:34
PWENER
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clennon8 wrote...
It's been a while, but I seem to remember in ME1, when you're conversing with Kaidan, he'll mention that he's one of the strongest biotic humans "except for you, of course" if Shepard is a biotic.
Adept Shepard is probably the strongest known biotic humanoid.
Of the squadmates, I'd rank Liara #1, which is impressive given her youth.
After that, it's a toss-up between Samara and Jack.
Btw, something you should all keep in mind is that the squadmate abilities you're able to utilize in combat are not comprehensive. They can do other things with their biotics. BioWare was just streamlining the available powers for the sake of simplifying gameplay.
When you say "humanoid", are you saying his the strongest biotic ever? The Lazarus project really made him a strong biotic (if you choose a biotic class that is). Even stronger than Jack if you ask me.
#166
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:36
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Story wise, concerning *stability* (as opposed to volatility and lack of control overall):
1. Shepard. Shepard is a god. Or at least a demi-god that will always win and have best use of biotics. Especially as an adept. Least with a soldier or engineer (still with biotic squad abilities though, so he always can use biotics).
2. Liara. Powers to even rival a justicar and it may only grow in ME3. Complete control it seems too.
3. Samara. Still very close to Liara in power. Both have great biotics, just Liara seems to have natural talent and Samara has more experience.
4. Miranda. The key thing with her is 'control', and she uses her biotics for it amazingly. She is NOT top tier in outright power, obviously, but she can likely manipulate her powers as well as an asari.
5. Kaiden. While not close to top tier in many ways, and upstaged by Miranda, he also has the mentality (thankfully, considering his history) and force of will with his powers that would find itself quite comfortable with asari. Has very clear limits, but I am sure he can work perfectly within them. Yes, even better than Jack.
6. Jack. Gotta put her here, if only for the biotic field sequence. If she was a 'normal' biotic and just as volitile, she wouldn't stand a chance on this list though. However, when she needs to, she can be very capable.
7. Thane. He isn't very much with biotics, but its clear that he has worked with improving them and manipulating them with precision. However, not much in the story shows this aside from being taught by the hanar. However, he is capable, just not notable.
8. Wrex. I go between Wrex and Jacob and look at their biotic talents. About the same. However, Jacob needed implants (right?) while Wrex likely didn't. He also probably thinks of it with an afterthought and useful skill in battle, than an action he must concentrate on. For this he gets this spot. Nothing very powerful (remember that the whole squad is largely the best of the best), but useful and dependable enough.
8. Jacob. Implants, and human. No specific genetic engineering for this that would be above others. The typical Lift/Barrier moves. Sure, he's stable, and in a way more than Jack.. but he can't measure up. Of course, we bring him for the basic skills, so he has his use, but in the story, he is a soldier with biotics to improve combat skills. Like Wrex in this regard.
1. Shepard. Shepard is a god. Or at least a demi-god that will always win and have best use of biotics. Especially as an adept. Least with a soldier or engineer (still with biotic squad abilities though, so he always can use biotics).
2. Liara. Powers to even rival a justicar and it may only grow in ME3. Complete control it seems too.
3. Samara. Still very close to Liara in power. Both have great biotics, just Liara seems to have natural talent and Samara has more experience.
4. Miranda. The key thing with her is 'control', and she uses her biotics for it amazingly. She is NOT top tier in outright power, obviously, but she can likely manipulate her powers as well as an asari.
5. Kaiden. While not close to top tier in many ways, and upstaged by Miranda, he also has the mentality (thankfully, considering his history) and force of will with his powers that would find itself quite comfortable with asari. Has very clear limits, but I am sure he can work perfectly within them. Yes, even better than Jack.
6. Jack. Gotta put her here, if only for the biotic field sequence. If she was a 'normal' biotic and just as volitile, she wouldn't stand a chance on this list though. However, when she needs to, she can be very capable.
7. Thane. He isn't very much with biotics, but its clear that he has worked with improving them and manipulating them with precision. However, not much in the story shows this aside from being taught by the hanar. However, he is capable, just not notable.
8. Wrex. I go between Wrex and Jacob and look at their biotic talents. About the same. However, Jacob needed implants (right?) while Wrex likely didn't. He also probably thinks of it with an afterthought and useful skill in battle, than an action he must concentrate on. For this he gets this spot. Nothing very powerful (remember that the whole squad is largely the best of the best), but useful and dependable enough.
8. Jacob. Implants, and human. No specific genetic engineering for this that would be above others. The typical Lift/Barrier moves. Sure, he's stable, and in a way more than Jack.. but he can't measure up. Of course, we bring him for the basic skills, so he has his use, but in the story, he is a soldier with biotics to improve combat skills. Like Wrex in this regard.
#167
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:42
clennon8
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PWENER wrote...
clennon8 wrote...
It's been a while, but I seem to remember in ME1, when you're conversing with Kaidan, he'll mention that he's one of the strongest biotic humans "except for you, of course" if Shepard is a biotic.
Adept Shepard is probably the strongest known biotic humanoid.
Of the squadmates, I'd rank Liara #1, which is impressive given her youth.
After that, it's a toss-up between Samara and Jack.
Btw, something you should all keep in mind is that the squadmate abilities you're able to utilize in combat are not comprehensive. They can do other things with their biotics. BioWare was just streamlining the available powers for the sake of simplifying gameplay.
When you say "humanoid", are you saying his the strongest biotic ever? The Lazarus project really made him a strong biotic (if you choose a biotic class that is). Even stronger than Jack if you ask me.
"Ever?" I don't know. Strongest biotic humanoid currently alive in the galaxy? Yes. Adept Shepard is a more powerful biotic than Jack, Liara, Samara, etc. Even Vanguard or Sentinel Shepard is probably right up there.
#168
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:50
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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PART 2 - Concerning ACTUAL POWER. This has less to do with stability, and more to do with overwhelming force. Not counting Morinth again.
1. Shepard. Duhh. Especially after ME2. ME3 will likely expand his/her abilities more, so expect adepts to do amazing stuff.
2. Liara. Even the strongest human biotic can't beat even a very well trained asari. And this is Liara, we know what she can do now. The gameplay note of her using Singularity told me that while Samara is great in martial arts mixed with pure biotic moves, Liara is still the best squaddie so far with the biotic moves themselves.
3. Jack. She has greatest power output of any of them, she just can't sustain them without da rageee like Liara can. She is VERY notable though, since she can likely put out biotics stronger than any human (as far as we know) and may even smash a powerful asari into pulp if especially angry.
4. Samara. We know this. In fact, others would rate her higher. However, I saw her place as more of a 'the best asari with martial arts mixed with biotics' than a rating of her biotic strength.
5. Miranda. Her slam move told me it all. She is, yeah, restricted by human limitations, but she is both stable, AND can pump out powerful moves when she needs to (though I'm sure she'd get a migraine) with little trouble.
5. Kaiden. I wouldn't want it to happen with him, but I'm sure that if he blew up, he'd really blow up in biotic power. Hell, I'd love to see that in a further DLC
Otherwise, he keeps within his limits, no I put him lower.
6. Wrex. Pretty tied with Thane. He uses his powers since he can, and pushes it as well as he can. Biotics in general are useful people. But he doesn't match the concentrated effort and power as the others.
7. Thane. Pretty tied with Wrex. Less outright strength, but more skill and control.
8. Jacob. Sigh. Nothing shows me he's all that powerful. He has throw, but nearly every biotic has a move like that. He has barrier, but that's a given in ME1, and nothing all that great in ME2. He's useful, but not SPECIAL.
1. Shepard. Duhh. Especially after ME2. ME3 will likely expand his/her abilities more, so expect adepts to do amazing stuff.
2. Liara. Even the strongest human biotic can't beat even a very well trained asari. And this is Liara, we know what she can do now. The gameplay note of her using Singularity told me that while Samara is great in martial arts mixed with pure biotic moves, Liara is still the best squaddie so far with the biotic moves themselves.
3. Jack. She has greatest power output of any of them, she just can't sustain them without da rageee like Liara can. She is VERY notable though, since she can likely put out biotics stronger than any human (as far as we know) and may even smash a powerful asari into pulp if especially angry.
4. Samara. We know this. In fact, others would rate her higher. However, I saw her place as more of a 'the best asari with martial arts mixed with biotics' than a rating of her biotic strength.
5. Miranda. Her slam move told me it all. She is, yeah, restricted by human limitations, but she is both stable, AND can pump out powerful moves when she needs to (though I'm sure she'd get a migraine) with little trouble.
5. Kaiden. I wouldn't want it to happen with him, but I'm sure that if he blew up, he'd really blow up in biotic power. Hell, I'd love to see that in a further DLC
Otherwise, he keeps within his limits, no I put him lower.6. Wrex. Pretty tied with Thane. He uses his powers since he can, and pushes it as well as he can. Biotics in general are useful people. But he doesn't match the concentrated effort and power as the others.
7. Thane. Pretty tied with Wrex. Less outright strength, but more skill and control.
8. Jacob. Sigh. Nothing shows me he's all that powerful. He has throw, but nearly every biotic has a move like that. He has barrier, but that's a given in ME1, and nothing all that great in ME2. He's useful, but not SPECIAL.
#169
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 02:11
Nimander
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I think there's a few facets on this. One is what we are told, another is what we are shown, and others is what we can extrapolate.
We are told that Samara is one of the most powerful biotics around, and that Morinth is her equal because she feeds on people. We are told that Jack is one of the most powerful human biotics around, and shown that she's rather awesome for a while on the prison ship.
We basically learn in a few source novels that almost no one can do a Singularity. Even Asaris. So those who can are among the strongest ever. This includes Liara and Shepard via extrapolation. Sadly, most of Shephard's power is shown through gameplay, as they don't render cutscenes by class, and it has to vaguely fit each class you choose. We can posit that because Jack doesn't normally exhibit that sort of power that she showed on the ship, that perhaps it was atypical -- perhaps a berserk rage that did more damage to her system, we don't know. This is extrapolation, though.
This means that both Liara and Adept-Shephard are at least in the top tier, if not the strongest ever. As for why Samara and Jack can't do Singularity? Samara seems to focus on other stuff, perhaps due to her genetic make-up and close-to-Ardat-Yakshi-hood. And Jack, well, she is basically a sledgehammer.
I would basically put these four in the same continuum. They're about equal overall, with different strengths. For those insisting no human can be as powerful as Asari, this goes against the source material itself. As for age and experience, it's a fact that as you age, you actually stop learning as well. You could say Asari are different, but then they become Space Mary Sues, even more Space Elves than they already are to a degree. After ME2, I might actually put Adept-Shephard ahead of these, just due to the modifications Cerberus put into him. Before ME2, I would probably put him in the same area, but probably trailing the pack a bit.
I put Wrex below this group because he's unfocused.
We are told that Samara is one of the most powerful biotics around, and that Morinth is her equal because she feeds on people. We are told that Jack is one of the most powerful human biotics around, and shown that she's rather awesome for a while on the prison ship.
We basically learn in a few source novels that almost no one can do a Singularity. Even Asaris. So those who can are among the strongest ever. This includes Liara and Shepard via extrapolation. Sadly, most of Shephard's power is shown through gameplay, as they don't render cutscenes by class, and it has to vaguely fit each class you choose. We can posit that because Jack doesn't normally exhibit that sort of power that she showed on the ship, that perhaps it was atypical -- perhaps a berserk rage that did more damage to her system, we don't know. This is extrapolation, though.
This means that both Liara and Adept-Shephard are at least in the top tier, if not the strongest ever. As for why Samara and Jack can't do Singularity? Samara seems to focus on other stuff, perhaps due to her genetic make-up and close-to-Ardat-Yakshi-hood. And Jack, well, she is basically a sledgehammer.
I would basically put these four in the same continuum. They're about equal overall, with different strengths. For those insisting no human can be as powerful as Asari, this goes against the source material itself. As for age and experience, it's a fact that as you age, you actually stop learning as well. You could say Asari are different, but then they become Space Mary Sues, even more Space Elves than they already are to a degree. After ME2, I might actually put Adept-Shephard ahead of these, just due to the modifications Cerberus put into him. Before ME2, I would probably put him in the same area, but probably trailing the pack a bit.
I put Wrex below this group because he's unfocused.
#170
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 02:30
GnusmasTHX
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I'd put Liara at number one just because of ME1. Her repertoire and skill with her abilities far exceeds everyone else's, excluding Adept Shep.
Lore wise Wrex should supposedly be really powerful. Krogan biotics are naturally strong, enough to merit people saying how strong they are, Wrex is obviously above average. Probably tied, or above Kaiden/Miranda.
Also with Jack, I figure every race has its own extremes. I like to think that Jack has the same power as an exceptionally powerful asari, but is human. But obviously not the discipline and skill.
Lore wise Wrex should supposedly be really powerful. Krogan biotics are naturally strong, enough to merit people saying how strong they are, Wrex is obviously above average. Probably tied, or above Kaiden/Miranda.
Also with Jack, I figure every race has its own extremes. I like to think that Jack has the same power as an exceptionally powerful asari, but is human. But obviously not the discipline and skill.
#171
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 02:33
PWENER
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Almost no one can do a singularity? Really? I haven't read the books though. What about charge? It seems that charge is more powerful than singularity. You can go through walls with charge, I think it's better.
#172
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 03:18
clennon8
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Charge is very flashy, but not amazingly powerful. Singularity can take 2 or more foes out of commission at once.
#174
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 03:29
PWENER
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So wich one is better?
Charge or Singularity? Im leaning towards charge.
Charge or Singularity? Im leaning towards charge.
#175
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 03:33
AntiChri5
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Gameplay does not equal lore.
The only time the strength of Singularity was emphasised was when it was a twelve year old girl doing it and her teacher was basically thinking "Oh ****! How can a little girl pull off a Singularity!"
Asking which is more "powerful", Singularity or Charge is somewhat absurd.
The only time the strength of Singularity was emphasised was when it was a twelve year old girl doing it and her teacher was basically thinking "Oh ****! How can a little girl pull off a Singularity!"
Asking which is more "powerful", Singularity or Charge is somewhat absurd.
