417 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

One of the more recent bugs that killed my drive to play:

When Golems of Amgarrak was released, I played through on a newly-created Mage just to unlock the items. It was pretty frustrating running through it with an undergeared and untested character, so when I was finished I vowed to create a character that would destroy the content.

Shattering Blows is an amazing talent against Golems, and I had even managed to fix the script that renders it useless. I played through all of Origins, despite being burnt out on the game, intending on playing through all of Awakenings as well just so my character would be as powerful as possible.

While in the fade in Awakenings, the first time I encountered constructs (undead), I realized that the Shattering Blows fix would not work in anything but Origins. Effectively, there was no reason to play the character anymore, as the anti-golem talent would not work in the exclusively-golem module.

To top it all off, when I acquired Vigilance, obviously another integral portion to the power of such a character, through no combination of "fix" mods could I get the correct model, hold the sword in the correct manner, and retain the sword's rune slots. At best I could use the proper Vigilance, held backwards, with no rune slots.

I've never let the plot choices bugs bother me, because I never thought they would matter; in my mind I knew what my character had done and that's all that matter. Now that they do, I shudder to think of the multitudes that I have let slip by, and wonder if any character out of the ~10 that I have would make Witch Hunt fun.

[Stanley Woo]

A bunch of off-topic tangents removed.

[Stanley Woo]

I wish i could drop the gloves, take the microphones off and destroy the recording devices, and speak as plainly and bluntly as I would like. Unfortunately, being employed as i am, and where and by whom, i am unfortunately restricted in what i can say. And because I am ultimately a nice guy, I can't even be really mean and snarky to y'all. Sarcastic, yes, but not really mean.



But despite all that, I'm still enjoying the conversation. i just wish people would quit trying to quantify the magic number of man-hours of development it would take to make a game "good". Game development is all about compromise. You compromise your vision when it starts to get too expensive or would take too much time, you compromise when different departments can't agree on priorities, you compromise on content when time becomes a factor, you compromise on detail when manpower is short, you compromise for a lot of reasons.



But you always TRY to do the best you can. And i think we've done pretty well for ourselves. Since the NWN days, we've more than doubled the size of the company, been acquired twice, expanded to be able to work on more than one project simultaneously, and developed 2 original properties, releasing games to tremendous critical and commercial appeal.



Being dismissive to problems? Considering we can't adequately answer every question posed to us, or solve every problem that every player is experiencing, yes, I do believe that we can be seen as dismissive by some. no one is perfect, no thing is perfect, and developers are only as good as their last game. But as long as we keep putting out great games, i'm more than happy to be your punching bag, because I love participating in our community and I'm a thick-skinned, forthright kinda guy. I still don't like a lot of the bad science floating around, and believe some folks need to chill out, but i understand that as long as we appear to be listening, you'll continue to make your thoughts known, good or bad.

[Stanley Woo]

*holds hands out in front of him* about yea big.

[GreenSoda]

Stanley Woo wrote...

...and developed 2 original properties, releasing games to tremendous critical and commercial appeal.

Jade Empire
Dragon Age
Mass Effect

I think you are shortselling yourself.

...unless JE was not a "tremendous commercial" success, of course. (...would be a pity too. I'd have loved a JE2)

[Haexpane]

Stanley Woo wrote...
...
  And because I am ultimately a nice guy, I can't even be really mean and snarky to y'all. Sarcastic, yes, but not really mean. ....

...Game development is all about compromise.  ...

 ...I'm a thick-skinned, forthright kinda guy...

...I still don't like a lot of the bad science floating around, and believe some folks need to chill out, but i understand that as long as we appear to be listening, you'll continue to make your thoughts known, good or bad....

Good post.  

 I love it when people announce how nice they are   almost as good as when someone literally says they are "not just another pretty face".  It's almost like reading facebook posts from people telling you how great they are , their kids are, their cat is etc.. (I'm the guy posting about my cat btw, my GF is not on facebook so I keep her on the downlow)

Anyone who doesn't understand that software development is always a compromise should not be allowed on the internet.  It's worthless to even have  a discussion w/ these clowns.  They are the same idiots who always talk about how great they would make a game.  Yet you NEVER see them get into the industry or even make a worthwhile mod.

Wow, not only is there an "im nice" announcement but this is followed up w/ even more descriptors of what type of guy you are.  Love it!

The 'bad science..." and "folks that need to chill" are the same ones who don't understand the first thing about a software development project and the same ones whining about glitches when they have 20 user mods installed and are using console commands.

They are insincere, and love to cage their statements and hide the truth.  Most of the bigger "glitch whiners" were called out for using mods, and half of their so called glitches did not even exist in vanillla.

Not sure what that part about "appear to be listening" ... what is the subtext there?  IDK. Most "game communities" that are beyond niche are cesspools of trolls.

Even smaller "family" communities like Tribes, or the wildly small niche TribesAA on the PS2 (that ran on dedicated PC servers and didnt even have chat!)  get overrun by haters.  That's how the internet works.  A bunch of haters bash something until that becomes boring, and then they brag about donating blood or cyber stalking a cat killer

 Bad thoughts?   - i must not think bad thoughts i must not think bad thoughts the facts we hate

The bottom line is DA has a very diverse and growing fanbase.  People aren't going to agree any more than fans of a specific sports team will agree on who should start and who should come off the bench etc..

[Haexpane]

GreenSoda wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

...and developed 2 original properties, releasing games to tremendous critical and commercial appeal.

Jade Empire
Dragon Age
Mass Effect

I think you are shortselling yourself.

...unless JE was not a "tremendous commercial" success, of course. (...would be a pity too. I'd have loved a JE2)

Jade Empire was straight up original, groundbreaking and damn fun.  Not balanced, but fun.  Loved that game.

Reminds me of DAO Awakenings, I loved and the only real "problem" I had was I wanted both of them to be 2x as long

[FieryDove]

Stanley Woo wrote...

*holds hands out in front of him* about yea big.

Just pass on the need to add 1 more...a full time patch person would be welcome for the DA franschise. imho

As to punching bags...nah your too cute won't work.

Oh edit...like others have said JE2 please....!!!

Modifié par FieryDove, 10 septembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[Mecha Tengu]

Blastback wrote...

Well, one solution that I've seen other players mention is to release a patch as free DLC for consoles.  That way they could fix more stuff at once.

"Free DLC" and "Consoles" in the same sentence?!??!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

and I'm not even going to remind you that Bioware is part of EA (oops looks like I did)

[Pritos]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Well, one solution that I've seen other players mention is to release a patch as free DLC for consoles.  That way they could fix more stuff at once.

"Free DLC" and "Consoles" in the same sentence?!??!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

and I'm not even going to remind you that Bioware is part of EA (oops looks like I did)

It could be worse, It could be part of Activision.

[Mecha Tengu]

Pritos wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Well, one solution that I've seen other players mention is to release a patch as free DLC for consoles.  That way they could fix more stuff at once.

"Free DLC" and "Consoles" in the same sentence?!??!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

and I'm not even going to remind you that Bioware is part of EA (oops looks like I did)

It could be worse, It could be part of Activision.

hmm I guess

[Elanareon]

Wishpig wrote...

Bioware, rushing, and lots and lots of bugs...

And never fixing them... That's the [problem...

[GulfWarVet]

Mr Woo,



You have a forum of fans here playing your games. Maybe, just maybe you should try giving them a beat to test first.



You may be surprised on what feedback you get.

[upsettingshorts]

Number of Beta testers who treat it like a demo > Number of Beta testers dedicated to removing bugs



I imagine the ratio is even more weighted towards the former if its an Open Beta.

[addiction21]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Number of Beta testers who treat it like a demo > Number of Beta testers dedicated to removing bugs

I imagine the ratio is even more weighted towards the former if its an Open Beta.

And out of the few that actaully try to find and fix the bugs the majority give ****** poor reports that almost gurantee the bug will never get fixed.

"I had this happen" is not a report. It helps nothing other then wasting someone else's time that had to sort thru that trash.

[Stanley Woo]

You're right, i forgot Jade Empire. Weird, too, because Jade empire was, for a long time, the only BioWare game I worked on that i could still play after ship. I don't know if i could still play it now that Mass effect and Dragon Age are out, but it'd be fun to find out. Thank you.

EDIT: I suppose i should add this so I'm not spamming a thread in which i'm participating. David Gaider in another thread mentioned that fans are very eager to throw someone else's money at problems. It seemsd to be the case here, with folks suggesting we take more time or make the team bigger or hire dedicated personnel for this or that. It's not a bad idea, but I'm sure players might get a little peeved at having any of those costs passed down in the form of higher game prices at retail or digital point-of-sale. Just sayin'.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:15 .

[Pzykozis]

Stanley Woo wrote...

EDIT: I suppose i should add this so I'm not spamming a thread in which i'm participating. David Gaider in another thread mentioned that fans are very eager to throw someone else's money at problems. It seemsd to be the case here, with folks suggesting we take more time or make the team bigger or hire dedicated personnel for this or that. It's not a bad idea, but I'm sure players might get a little peeved at having any of those costs passed down in the form of higher game prices at retail or digital point-of-sale. Just sayin'.

Just get the guys ('n' gals) to earn their salaries!

Seems like some of the art departments in the industry (not suggesting bioware are guilty of this) regularly put in (by regular I mean during crunch time) 80 hour weeks. Just get the QA team to do the same! No extra cost since you're paid salary wise anyway.

*disclaimer* I am joking.. sort of..

Oh damn I sound like Kotick.

[Saibh]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You're right, i forgot Jade Empire. Weird, too, because Jade empire was, for a long time, the only BioWare game I worked on that i could still play after ship. I don't know if i could still play it now that Mass effect and Dragon Age are out, but it'd be fun to find out. Thank you.

EDIT: I suppose i should add this so I'm not spamming a thread in which i'm participating. David Gaider in another thread mentioned that fans are very eager to throw someone else's money at problems. It seemsd to be the case here, with folks suggesting we take more time or make the team bigger or hire dedicated personnel for this or that. It's not a bad idea, but I'm sure players might get a little peeved at having any of those costs passed down in the form of higher game prices at retail or digital point-of-sale. Just sayin'.

I believe there's a difference between fixing every bug the game has--which I would never expect--and fixing massive unavoidable main quest bugs. It's not that I'm asking for you guys to make that game the first perfect, non-buggy PC game ever, but I can't see how things like the King Alistair bug or the WH bug managed to get through to the final copy, and why they aren't being fixed. How was it possible for you guys not to notice them? 

It's difficult to believe, from a fans' perspective, you simply didn't notice. To a lot of us it seems more like you just didn't care. I'm don't think that's true, but at the same time it's hard to believe you didn't notice.

The little bugs I can deal with. Most bugs in DAO I didn't come into contact with (at least, I didn't realize I hadn't come into contact with them). But the ones I did were massive and immersion-breaking. Those are the sort I'm worried about for DA2.

Modifié par Saibh, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:26 .

[GulfWarVet]

Stanley Woo wrote...

. It seemsd to be the case here, with folks suggesting we take more time or make the team bigger or hire dedicated personnel for this or that. It's not a bad idea, 

Who asked for money.

SCEE have 3000 odd beta testers for free who test some of their games and provide feedback. Maybe make the call and see if they can help.

Yes its PS3 testers but quite a few have PC's as well!! They also check localization issues as they are from most of the countries of EU not just UK, although they do fill in feedback in English, part of the requirement!

Sometimes looking outside the box isn't as scary as people think and not half as expensive as they believe.

[Maverick827]

Since this thread has gained sort of a second wind, I guess it's time to reiterate my core complaint:

I'm not upset that bugs exist, as bugs are always to be expected. I'm not upset that we do not receive weekly or even monthly patches, as this is not an MMORPG or a game with similar upkeep requirements.

What I am upset about, however, is that your modding community has pointed out many small and easy fixes - fixes the console players would love to see but are unfortunately unable - and proven them to be stable and unconflicting through months of testing. I am upset that I have to keep track of a slew of mods, overrides, and script edits when an official patch - merely a compilation of known fixes - would be clean and succinct.

[Dave of Canada]

When a bug impacts everybody who imported from the epilogue, it's kind of silly how it could've been missed when being made especially since this bug existed since Origins. This is my problem with the Witch Hunt DLC, it isn't that the game wasn't patched but this has been a big problem we've been dealing with for almost a year now and still there's no end in sight.



When a game advertises choice but the game is too buggy to recognize most of these choices, it's pretty... silly? I can't think of the word but patching should've covered it eventually. We're still unable to do solo-Anora and such because the game is bugged, yet it's one of the most important decisions in the game.



For example, I've been trapped in a lot of bugs in Mass Effect 2 (such as audio cutting off in certain scenes, Shepard's head missing or invisible characters) but they didn't impact the story and I didn't mind it much at all. Dragon Age's similar bugs didn't bother me too much either yet those are the bugs that are getting fixed, the big ones are being ignored until the **** hits the fan (Witch Hunt).



I might just be pessimistic but I'm worried the same thing will happen with Dragon Age 2.