417 réponses à ce sujet

[Black-Xero]

That's what worries me for DA2(and New Vegas...).With a game this big,I expect it to have bugs but none that ruin the experience you are able to have in the game.I'm hoping Bioware takes their time with this one and try to fix all the unnecessary bugs.

[Xoanon69]

As long as people are happy to keep buying substandard products then companies like Bioware will be only too happy to sell them. On this issue at least, the fault doesn't lay with Bioware but with the customers.

[Anathemic]

Xoanon69 wrote...

As long as people are happy to keep buying substandard products then companies like Bioware will be only too happy to sell them. On this issue at least, the fault doesn't lay with Bioware but with the customers.

How is this the fault of customers? If BioWare is going to keep targetting the casual gamer crowd then casual gamers are what they are gonan get (typical MW2 players) eventually the older vet players who prefer quality games will leave and BioWare will forever be ranked amongst average and/or mediocre game companies and lsoe their place amongst top game companies like Blizzard, Valve, GamesWorshop, etc.

[Saibh]

Wishpig wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

And as Bioware has stated some things can't be fixed because it may actually break the game. Where as DA2 they can start from the ground up and fix the bugs and not worry if it will make X% of their consumers game broken. 

The largest, most intrusive bugs can certainly be fixed.  They currently are in player mods.  Why not take a day, compile said mods, and release them as an official patch?

Indeed. If they try to say some of the large bugs will break the game, well, they haven't come across any mods. People fixed them and they work fine. It seems to me a lot of bugs have to do with this-or-that plot flag not being raised properly, which is an easy fix.

The devs actually responded to this line of thinking. Pretty much saying that the devs have to be very very very very carefull when going around fixing up bugs. The modders have more freedom to tinker around and tidy things up without the risk the devs have. The modders also have more time and can focus on fewer things at once.

Hey, I don't get it... seems like they could just do what you said. BUT I'm no programmer, so I'm gonna have to take the devs word.

...You mean "careful" as in the gamebreaking bugs they've been releasing? According to Maverick, a lot of it is simply typos in the code.

No matter what they say, modders easily fixed a lot of the damage successfully without breaking the game. Thousands of people are free to download these mods, and have, and they work.

[Tatinger]

Vandicus wrote...

Blastback wrote...

RyuAzai wrote...

I had no idea there were bugs in Witch Hunt. I played through it with no problem what so ever.

I even unlocked some achievements, and I had for my laptop.

I am curious what bugs have people been facing?

It's a big one at the end.  A lot of people are finding that if their warden performed the Dark Ritual with Morrigan, she will act as if they didn't.

Luckily, they say they're releasing a PC patch for it on Monday that apears to work. All my Wardens do the Dark Ritual, so I'm still waiting on that reaction.

The good news is that they're fixing it with the patch.  The bad news is that we had to find it for them (again).  I do hope that this represents a sea change with the company and they've heard the rumblings on the board and realize that having an angry customer base is counterproductive to their overall business model.

Vandicus wrote...

As for DA:O bugs, the only issues I've had were a couple crashes, and my computer crashes on virtually every computer game at some point. Haven't had any issues with DA:A yet. Guess I'm just lucky.

Very lucky.

Modifié par Tatinger, 11 septembre 2010 - 09:51 .

[addiction21]

Not that lucky. I have not ran into any of these "game breaking" bugs in Awakenings and the only ones I encountered in DAO was the memory leak (BW has fixed it for me) and the dex bug. Something one of the workers (George Zoeller) at BioWare put out days after the release http://dragonage.gul...rity_hotfix_101

Just saying things are not so black and white as many in this thread assume.

Modifié par addiction21, 11 septembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[Thatdude88]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You're right, i forgot Jade Empire. Weird, too, because Jade empire was, for a long time, the only BioWare game I worked on that i could still play after ship. I don't know if i could still play it now that Mass effect and Dragon Age are out, but it'd be fun to find out. Thank you.

EDIT: I suppose i should add this so I'm not spamming a thread in which i'm participating. David Gaider in another thread mentioned that fans are very eager to throw someone else's money at problems. It seemsd to be the case here, with folks suggesting we take more time or make the team bigger or hire dedicated personnel for this or that. It's not a bad idea, but I'm sure players might get a little peeved at having any of those costs passed down in the form of higher game prices at retail or digital point-of-sale. Just sayin'.

Make a better game with less buts and more will sell support your games after you mess them up and youll have more return customers aka more money aka more employees  by not hiring more people and letting things slide you only create loss

[Noob451]

is it odd that i didn't have any issues with witch hunt? (besides the disappointing lack of closure)

[Tatinger]

addiction21 wrote...

Not that lucky. I have not ran into any of these "game breaking" bugs in Awakenings and the only ones I encountered in DAO was the memory leak (BW has fixed it for me) and the dex bug. Something one of the workers (George Zoeller) at BioWare put out days after the release http://dragonage.gul...rity_hotfix_101

Just saying things are not so black and white as many in this thread assume.

Well, ultimately, it is black-and-white.  They either fix the errors that they know exist in the game or they don't. Maybe your problem was a bit more complicated than most but what the majority of people are talking about in terms of bugs are not physical hardware issues but that of the gameplay itself.  The fact that typos, or things not being flagged properly, are leading to broken quests and, utlimately, a frustrating gameplay experience are issues that are correctable but, for some reason, are making it past the playtesters and into the game which, from that point on, are duly ignored (or, at least, have been, up until now).  This, as people have been saying, is inexcusable because, if modders can fix the problem without 'breaking the game' (in a relatively easy time frame) then it should be something that Bioware should be pursuing if only to appease customers who might be a bit wary about spending $60 for the next installment of the Dragon Age franchise, never being quite sure whether they'll be wasting their money on a product that will actually work or not.  It's a question of acting in good faith, prior to DA2's release, really.  I'm not sure if people will be scared off buying Dragon Age II if the bugs in their previous games don't get fixed prior to launch or not but if Dragon Age II is as buggy as Awakening and doesn't get fixed by the time DA3 comes around...? That's playing with fire (pardon the pun).

Modifié par Tatinger, 12 septembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Tatinger]

distinguetraces wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
It seemsd to be the case here, with folks suggesting we take more time or make the team bigger or hire dedicated personnel for this or that. It's not a bad idea, but I'm sure players might get a little peeved at having any of those costs passed down in the form of higher game prices at retail or digital point-of-sale.

One solution to both problems is to go further in the direction of episodic content released in large chunks of DLC.

Conceive and design the game in episodes, developed with a unified look and story but programmed and polished individually. When release date roles around, release those episodes that are ready -- at mid-price, perhaps forty-five dollars for a somewhat foreshortened game.

You then have the flexibility to release longer content-rich DLC for a much higher price than you can get away with for the short adventures that were produced for Origins. And with most people who bought the box game having actually played through to a satisfying conclusion/cliffhanger (unlike the many who leave long hardcore RPGs unfinished), you'd have many more people eager to pay for more content as DLC.

A fifteen-hour or twenty-hour game at release for forty dollars -- one that more than 50% of players will actually finish.

Then, a sequence of five-hour or ten-hour expansions for ten or twelve dollars each. Long enough for a meaty couple of sessions of play, short enough that most players would finish them immediately -- so that if they wanted more they would have to buy more, rather than just going back to an unfinished save as casual players can easily do for Origins or Mass Effect.

Anyway, that's what I would do if I were in charge.

Now that is an interesting business model.  Seriously.

[OriginsIsBest]

Hmm...one wonders if the importing will be bugged, When one imports a certain Origins save into DA2.



Oh well it's not like our choices would of been major anyway. Since there is no canon. -.-

[snfonseka]

Looks like BW is not doing the testing well.... Because some of the bugs are so obvious that I hardly can believe they have missed them in their testing phase.

[Meltemph]

snfonseka wrote...

Looks like BW is not doing the testing well.... Because some of the bugs are so obvious that I hardly can believe they have missed them in their testing phase.

It may not be fixed because their "system" of fixing things requires crap that we don't know about.... Which I would assume is more of the case.  It sounds like if they fix something, they have to fix it for every version at the same time, anymore.  Either way, imo, their patch/aq/bug fixing "system" seems broke and they need to go another way about it.

[Stanley Woo]

Sorry, folks, but after pages of my company being accused of being lazy, careless, malicious, incompetent, greedy, and/or stupid, I think I'm done in this thread. My own opinions and thoughts are in the thread, and I've tried to be as open honest as I can be, but it seems people would much rather be accusatory than supportive or helpful. This thread will remain open as long as the bashing stays at a minimum.



Again, thanks for the discussion.

[Sharn01]

I think you are being overly defensive Mr Woo. Its one thing for a minor decision to be missed in a dlc or expansion, its another thing for the single most important decision made during the course of the entire game to be overlooked during a dlc or expansion.



Of course I a have not been happy with any of the extra content for DA after the initial release was made. ME2 is the other way around, I was not happy with the game its self, but the DLC has been very well done and bug free.

[SoR82]

Personally WH gave me a shedloads of laughs and ihavent even go it. Seriously that was one of the best pieces of marketing in the history of gaming!

Find out what happened to morrigan! Your Warden returns and his choices matter! Morrigan returns!... for what 10 seconds? XD Did you check out gamespots review. Ill give you a hint.... it didnt do so well.

As for the topic yep rushed bugged and god knows what else all the hallmarks of a best seller.........

Ill jsut add when I was modding games I would have been embarssed to release them in the state some of your products have been and I wasnt even charging!

Modifié par SoR82, 13 septembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Tatinger]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sorry, folks, but after pages of my company being accused of being lazy, careless, malicious, incompetent, greedy, and/or stupid, I think I'm done in this thread. My own opinions and thoughts are in the thread,
and I've tried to be as open honest as I can be, but it seems people would much rather be accusatory than supportive or helpful.

I love it.  We, the paying customers, are wrong for wanting our purchases to work the way they're supposed to... 

Look, I'll be the first to admit that we don't know all the fine and intricate details of what's currently going on behind the scenes but the sad truth of the matter is that the stuff doesn't work -- or at least not the way it was designed and conceived to.  I can understand how all the negative comments can wear on you after a while -- especially as it's a job you're proud of and love to do -- but don't shoot the messenger(s).  We're telling you that there's a problem.  Rather than taking your ball and going home, or turning a deaf ear to what we're saying, investigate it!  Believe us when we say that it's far more frustrating for us than it is for you.  I mean, we love your games too!  That's why people perceive this as such an injustice and are so upset by it.  We hate to see what's happening.

At the end of your posting, you ask us to be supportive and helpful.  Well, tell us how!  Other than making you a multi-million dollar company by loyally buying every product that comes down the pike and thinking that we're doing a service by pointing out errors (which, apparently, is frowned upon), tell us what we need to do.  Seriously.

As SoR82 says, at the end of the day, it's not going to be our names that are dragged through the mud.  So tell us how to help.  Should we just dummy up when something doesn't work?  I don't get how that helps anybody.

Finally, in closing, I will say this: you're only as good as your last product.  If quality suffers, people will stop buying (that's a simple economic reality).  Isn't it better to put a little bit of time and resources to correct the problem now than pay for it later? (And, yes, I know Bioware's hands may be tied on this somewhat but it would be wise for those pulling the strings to remember that customer loyalty and patience only extends so far). 

Remember: you heard it here first.  Whether something is done, however, is another matter entirely.

Modifié par Tatinger, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:41 .

[Pritos]

Tatinger wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sorry, folks, but after pages of my company being accused of being lazy, careless, malicious, incompetent, greedy, and/or stupid, I think I'm done in this thread. My own opinions and thoughts are in the thread,
and I've tried to be as open honest as I can be, but it seems people would much rather be accusatory than supportive or helpful.

I love it.  We, the paying customers, are wrong for wanting our purchases to work the way they're supposed to... 

Look, I'll be the first to admit that we don't know all the fine and intricate details of what's currently going on behind the scenes but the sad truth of the matter is that the stuff doesn't work -- or at least not the way it was designed and conceived to.  I can understand how all the negative comments can wear on you after a while -- especially as it's a job you're proud of and love to do -- but don't shoot the messenger(s).  We're telling you that there's a problem.  Rather than take your ball and go home, or turn a deaf ear to what we're saying, investigate it!  Believe us when we say that it's far more frustrating for us than it is for you.  I mean, we love your games too!  That's why people perceive this as such an injustice and are so upset by it.  We hate to see what's happening.

At the end of your posting, you ask us to be supportive and helpful.  Well, tell us how!  Other than making you a multi-million dollar company by loyally buying every product that comes down the pike and thinking that we're doing a service by pointing out errors (which, apparently, is frowned upon), tell us what we need to do.  Seriously.

As SoR82 says, at the end of the day, it's not going to be our names that are dragged through the mud.  So tell us how to help.  Should we just dummy up when something doesn't work?  I don't get how that helps anybody.

Finally, in closing, I will say this: you're only as good as your last product.  If quality suffers, people will stop buying (that's a simple economic reality).  Isn't it better to put a little bit of time and resources to correct the problem now than pay for it later? (And, yes, I know Bioware's hands may be tied on this somewhat but it would be wise for those pulling the strings to remember that customer loyalty and patience only extends so far). 

Remember: you heard it here first.  Whether something is done, however, is another matter entirely.

You just forgot that money always speaks louder... Principally when EA is on the play.

[Blastback]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sorry, folks, but after pages of my company being accused of being lazy, careless, malicious, incompetent, greedy, and/or stupid, I think I'm done in this thread. My own opinions and thoughts are in the thread, and I've tried to be as open honest as I can be, but it seems people would much rather be accusatory than supportive or helpful. This thread will remain open as long as the bashing stays at a minimum.

Again, thanks for the discussion.

I think that in large part it's people's feelings of fustration with the various bugs that we have encountered boiling over.  Your assertion that we don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes that allows bugs is correct, we don't.  But at the same time, I imagine you can understand how a number of these bugs would seem obvious to us. 
And when you factor in that the patches have caused bugs themselves, despite taking longer to come out than alot of people feel is appropriate, well, more fustration.  Or in my case, just being to afraid to download a patch.

Ultimatly, as a customer, it is hard to be supportive when there are numerous issues in the first game that still need to be resolved, and Bioware is instead focusing on the sequal.  Especially when we've been given no indication if any of the remaining issues will be fixed.

I'm looking foward to DA2, and I will always love Bioware, but I am concerened about experiancing bugs in DA2, and I am fustrated by the bugs in Origins and it's supplementary material. 

Sorry for my part in running you off, I never meant to run down you or even the company, only to voice my views on how the situation felt to me as a customer.

[Blastback]

Tatinger wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sorry, folks, but after pages of my company being accused of being lazy, careless, malicious, incompetent, greedy, and/or stupid, I think I'm done in this thread. My own opinions and thoughts are in the thread,
and I've tried to be as open honest as I can be, but it seems people would much rather be accusatory than supportive or helpful.

I love it.  We, the paying customers, are wrong for wanting our purchases to work the way they're supposed to... 

Look, I'll be the first to admit that we don't know all the fine and intricate details of what's currently going on behind the scenes but the sad truth of the matter is that the stuff doesn't work -- or at least not the way it was designed and conceived to.  I can understand how all the negative comments can wear on you after a while -- especially as it's a job you're proud of and love to do -- but don't shoot the messenger(s).  We're telling you that there's a problem.  Rather than take your ball and go home, or turn a deaf ear to what we're saying, investigate it!  Believe us when we say that it's far more frustrating for us than it is for you.  I mean, we love your games too!  That's why people perceive this as such an injustice and are so upset by it.  We hate to see what's happening.

At the end of your posting, you ask us to be supportive and helpful.  Well, tell us how!  Other than making you a multi-million dollar company by loyally buying every product that comes down the pike and thinking that we're doing a service by pointing out errors (which, apparently, is frowned upon), tell us what we need to do.  Seriously.

As SoR82 says, at the end of the day, it's not going to be our names that are dragged through the mud.  So tell us how to help.  Should we just dummy up when something doesn't work?  I don't get how that helps anybody.

Finally, in closing, I will say this: you're only as good as your last product.  If quality suffers, people will stop buying (that's a simple economic reality).  Isn't it better to put a little bit of time and resources to correct the problem now than pay for it later? (And, yes, I know Bioware's hands may be tied on this somewhat but it would be wise for those pulling the strings to remember that customer loyalty and patience only extends so far). 

Remember: you heard it here first.  Whether something is done, however, is another matter entirely.

So, which was actually their last product to be released, Witch Hunt or Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Cause Lair of the Shadow Broker was durn near perfect.

Modifié par Blastback, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:01 .

[Tatinger]

Blastback wrote...

Tatinger wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sorry, folks, but after pages of my company being accused of being lazy, careless, malicious, incompetent, greedy, and/or stupid, I think I'm done in this thread. My own opinions and thoughts are in the thread,
and I've tried to be as open honest as I can be, but it seems people would much rather be accusatory than supportive or helpful.

I love it.  We, the paying customers, are wrong for wanting our purchases to work the way they're supposed to... 

Look, I'll be the first to admit that we don't know all the fine and intricate details of what's currently going on behind the scenes but the sad truth of the matter is that the stuff doesn't work -- or at least not the way it was designed and conceived to.  I can understand how all the negative comments can wear on you after a while -- especially as it's a job you're proud of and love to do -- but don't shoot the messenger(s).  We're telling you that there's a problem.  Rather than take your ball and go home, or turn a deaf ear to what we're saying, investigate it!  Believe us when we say that it's far more frustrating for us than it is for you.  I mean, we love your games too!  That's why people perceive this as such an injustice and are so upset by it.  We hate to see what's happening.

At the end of your posting, you ask us to be supportive and helpful.  Well, tell us how!  Other than making you a multi-million dollar company by loyally buying every product that comes down the pike and thinking that we're doing a service by pointing out errors (which, apparently, is frowned upon), tell us what we need to do.  Seriously.

As SoR82 says, at the end of the day, it's not going to be our names that are dragged through the mud.  So tell us how to help.  Should we just dummy up when something doesn't work?  I don't get how that helps anybody.

Finally, in closing, I will say this: you're only as good as your last product.  If quality suffers, people will stop buying (that's a simple economic reality).  Isn't it better to put a little bit of time and resources to correct the problem now than pay for it later? (And, yes, I know Bioware's hands may be tied on this somewhat but it would be wise for those pulling the strings to remember that customer loyalty and patience only extends so far). 

Remember: you heard it here first.  Whether something is done, however, is another matter entirely.

So, which was actually their last product to be released, Witch Hunt or Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Cause Lair of the Shadow Broker was durn near perfect.

Um, this is a Dragon Age forum, is it not?  If you followed the thread it's pretty evident to see that people are upset by what they're seeing in DA and not Mass Effect.  But thanks for diffusing my post.  Much appreciated.

[Blastback]

Sorry, forgot to indicate I was joking around. And i am as fustrated with the bugs in DAO as much as anyone, but I try to have something of a sense of humor about it.

[dGreatLuronzo]

Man what a rant! I've been buying Bioware products for years and have always been impressed by their willingness to work out any problems and put patchs out right away. Some of the comments made in this thread are unwarranted and hurtful. NOT the best way to motivate the folks you're depending on to fix the problem(s).

I'm sure you folks can communicate your frustrations better than this.

ME1&2 are some of the few "no problems" games I've got, and I"ve got a bunch.

I'm a customer too and I still believe that a little common courtesy goes a long way when working with people. Bioware is a FINE bunch of people. People make mistakes. So what? I intend to keep buying their fine products regardless of rants like this.

[dGreatLuronzo]

Oh yea, DA and DA awakenings are more of my "no problem" games.

.