417 réponses à ce sujet

[Blastback]

dGreatLuronzo wrote...

Man what a rant! I've been buying Bioware products for years and have always been impressed by their willingness to work out any problems and put patchs out right away. Some of the comments made in this thread are unwarranted and hurtful. NOT the best way to motivate the folks you're depending on to fix the problem(s).
I'm sure you folks can communicate your frustrations better than this.
ME1&2 are some of the few "no problems" games I've got, and I"ve got a bunch.
I'm a customer too and I still believe that a little common courtesy goes a long way when working with people. Bioware is a FINE bunch of people. People make mistakes. So what? I intend to keep buying their fine products regardless of rants like this.

Part of why there is so much anger is that the patches that have been put out for Origins have been slow in comming, and also have caused new bugs.  And there are a number of bugs, some big some small, that we don't know whether or not they will ever be fixed.  i agree, some of the posts have gotten out of hand, and I'm sorry for any times I may have.  But at the same time, there is a lot of hurt that Bioware is focusing on a new project when there are so many unresolved problems with the first one.

[Saibh]

dGreatLuronzo wrote...

Man what a rant! I've been buying Bioware products for years and have always been impressed by their willingness to work out any problems and put patchs out right away. Some of the comments made in this thread are unwarranted and hurtful. NOT the best way to motivate the folks you're depending on to fix the problem(s).

...Actually, as far as getting companies to do what you want, nothing is more effective than collective baaaawing, which is plain frustrating. People flipped the hell out when Cole from inFamous' look got changed, and immediately it was altered. Screaming in unison has worked for us since we were infants, and we ain't about to stop now!

Also. Maybe you didn't play DAO. Maybe you miraculously managed to avoid the bugs, but DAO is buggy. All to hell sort of buggy. Some of them I can't possibly begin to justify. As I've said earlier, I'm definitely a BioWare apologist--but this I'm not willing to make excuses for.

I'm not sure which dimension's DAO  games you've been playing that put out patches "right away", but it's not this ones. The way they're handling WH is to be commended--granted, this is a massive bug that shouldn't have been in there to begin with. But it's unprecedented with them. Some major problems in DAO have yet to be fixed.

I'm sure you folks can communicate your frustrations better than this.

Many of us have. In any instance, you need to look past the loudest, angriest group until you find the people speaking clearly and calmly. They're definitely here.

ME1&2 are some of the few "no problems" games I've got, and I"ve got a bunch.

The ME games are pretty polished, but they are bugged as well, which is alright. I wouldn't expect a flawless game. They are not a "no problems" game.

EDIT: I see you included DAO and inexplicably DAO-A in your "no bugs" game, but you cannot have played those games more than once, and that once was a touch of luck in not getting any bugs.

Modifié par Saibh, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:17 .

[falconlord5]

I have never experienced any of the bugs you guys have described.

So my only question is: what the hell are you people on?

[Saibh]

falconlord5 wrote...

I have never experienced any of the bugs you guys have described.
So my only question is: what the hell are you people on?

I guess you never once played the game making Anora sole queen. Bugs are easier to avoid when you never do anything differently. You were lucky if you avoided the WH bug. Altima also provides a list of "I guess they never". She misses a few.

Modifié par Saibh, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:25 .

[Cigne]

A few points:



My first playthrough (human rogue) had Anora as single Queen. I don't remember any gamebreaking bugs--but I also don't remember which patch I was on, either.



Fixes by modders are downloaded by players that are having a problem (duh!)

Before Bioware incorporates a patch, it would have to be tested so as to not break the game of those who are not having that particular problem.

(This isn't meant to sound disrespectful of modders, but simply to reiterate that the devs have to operate under a different set of rules)



Looking at the Halo updates, Halo 2's second one was a year after the first; Halo 3 was seven months.

Neither one had to deal with dlc compatibility.



That said, the community certainly does have the right to expect dlc to be compatible and behave as advertised, and for patch support for major bugs in da:o to continue, even after da2 is released (if necessary).

[Maverick827]

Contrary to popular belief, not every change to code is volatile and requires extensive testing, especially typos or simple logic errors in the Dragon Age scrips.

I don't even know where to begin learning how to understand how engine programming works, so all of the errors there I cannot comment on. But damn it all, I know a C-syntax bitwise operation error when I see one. (0x01 & 0x02) != 0x02

[dGreatLuronzo]

lol Saibh.. I've played DAO and DAA many, many times and as many, many different types and exploring different endings..... so...............

[Tatinger]

Saibh wrote...

I'm not sure which dimension's DAO  games you've been playing that put out patches "right away", but it's not this ones. The way they're handling WH is to be commended--granted, this is a massive bug that shouldn't have been in there to begin with.

And, of course, the point that gets glossed over here is that they can put out a patch at any time (like they did with Witch Hunt) if they really, really, want to.  Which begs the obvious question...

dGreatLuronzo wrote...

I've played DAO and DAA many, many times and as many, many different types and exploring different
endings..... so...............

Well, please, tell us your secret, then. I use a top-of-the-line Alienware computer with no mods installed and most of the DA:A quests I wasn't able to complete so, again, please reveal your wisdom of how you were able to accomplish what we lesser mortals were unable to.

P. S. I really shouldn't say "most".  I quit the game quite early on when I became frustrated by endless loop cycles, completed quest bugs not triggering, etc.  I have no idea if it got any better after the first three/four hours or so.

Modifié par Tatinger, 14 septembre 2010 - 04:10 .

[Malice_Unarmed]

I never had a game breaking bug in DA other then the mess up with witch hunts installer. Never in my 5 playthroughs was there a bug preventing me from continueing.

Modifié par Malice_Unarmed, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:05 .

[Blastback]

okay, first of all, remeber that a bug doesn't have to be game breaking to affect a person's enjoyment. Second, While mods exist for the PC version, some of us play on consoles and can't use them

[Cailean]

wait... you buy a game and you start nagging about bugs?! every game has a bug! that is why the developpers make patches!

[gingerbill]

Mr woo thanks for trying to explain and engage with us customers , but i think this thread shows why companies usually dont bother . Dragon age was a massive game and i consider it virtually bug free for its size , certainly better than could be reasonably expected . Unfortunetly game forums these days are a waste of time as they are always just full of people moaning , these same people who moan also buy the game and play it for hundreds of hours and then just complain about it. And of course buy the follow up play that for hundreds of hours and then complain about how awful that game was too .



Ignore them Mr woo and dont let the perpetual complainers put you off speaking to the rest off us .

[Vandrayke]

gingerbill wrote...

Mr woo thanks for trying to explain and engage with us customers , but i think this thread shows why companies usually dont bother . Dragon age was a massive game and i consider it virtually bug free for its size , certainly better than could be reasonably expected . Unfortunetly game forums these days are a waste of time as they are always just full of people moaning , these same people who moan also buy the game and play it for hundreds of hours and then just complain about it. And of course buy the follow up play that for hundreds of hours and then complain about how awful that game was too .

Ignore them Mr woo and dont let the perpetual complainers put you off speaking to the rest off us .

I disagree.  I think the "whiners" serve a purpose and give companies needed feedback.

If everyone was like me, they'd just think some things weren't a big deal, so companies wouldn't work to keep them to a minimum.

It takes people getting worked up over ridiculously minor stuff to prevent the minor stuff from becoming major.  Is it being ridiculously hyperbolic to say that one of the 500 endings not functioning properly ruins the game?  Sure.  But maybe next time everything will work right.  

[bzombo]

Stanley Woo wrote...

MadLaughter wrote...
Just because people make criticisms from an armchair doesn't mean they are wrong. THAT's a generalization. A hypocritical one, considering you're accusing us of making generalizations.

I didn't say people were wrong. in fact, i said quite the opposite in one of my posts--that I wasn't arguing necessarily because people were wrong. I'm arguing more because people are sometimes using bad science and lack of information to come to their foregone conclusions, like an armchair quarterback seeing an open receiver but forgetting that he has a vastly different perspective of the field than the actual quarterback.

There are a few inescapable truths:
-DAO and DAO:A were and are too buggy with no fix in sight.

Many people had no trouble with either game, and several patches have been released that fix a number of the more serious problems people were having. Not an inescapable truth. Bad science.

-The development cycle for DA2 is incredibly short, compared to what Bioware seems to be used to and compared to most big budget games.

That's an opinion, not an inescapable truth. Bad science.

-Short development cycles are positively correlated with worse games.

Correlation does not necessarily equal causation. Bad science.

-Development cycles are determined in most cases by the publisher.

Unless you can come up witha citation for that, I'm going to call bad science once again. Also, not an inescapable truth. I'm sure the developer's opinions of its own capabilities and workflow also help to determine development cycles.

you know, i'm generally on the developer's side in a lot of these debates, but this one is just sad, stan. i personally don't think dao was that bugged. it had mostly small bugs that were not a big deal. it would probably have been better if you just stayed quiet on this because after dao you get awakening, which is the biggest bugfest i've ever played outside of temple of elemental evil. there's many bugs in the more recent dlc, and patch 1.04 has done little to nothing in stopping ctd's.

i understand problems come up, but how does a company produce 2 updates for the xbox 360 that break the game? you call bad science on almost everything madlaughter wrote based on trivial things. exactly what science do you base the fact that many people had no problem? i bet most had some kind of problem, but maybe they did not notice or care. i would counter that nearly everyone has problems with awakening. i like awakening a lot. i think justice is an awesome character, but please don't treat us like we're naive enough to not notice that everything that was developed in much shorter time has a lot of bugs and no fix in sight.

many people on the social site have been very self entitled and obnoxious with their complaining. i do, however, find this kind of response from you to be just as bad. you're essentially giving reasons for why it's okay to release a game with bugs and release fixes that don't fix. you say modders aren't tied down to the same rules. you are absolutely right. however, when a modder like qwinn comes along and makes a huge fixpack that nearly everyone who has used it agrees it fixes a ton of stuff with little to no problems, that seems like a time to incorporate his fixes at least into an official pc patch. maybe applying what he did to xb and ps3 is not possible, but qwinn's fixpack outdid anything bioware put out as a patch.

i expect bumps in the road, but sometimes you come off as if to dismiss those bumps in the road as the player being s.o.l. the bottom line is the short development cycle means less time spent on the game, which means less time to find bugs. bioware qa has dropped the ball several times in a row now. maybe a beta test like what is being done with witch hunt would be a better route for da2 than dismissing everyone's statements as bad science or monday morning quarterbacking. the ones who act like maniacs about it i agree they should be dismissed. not everyone on here is acting like that. bioware needs to make sure there is no "silverite mine bug" in da2. if one that big does pop up, it can not be ignored like it was with awakening.

[HTTP 404]

let's all jump on the jump to conclusion bandwagon.

[macrocarl]

I hope they slow down a bit with DLC for DA2 personally.

[Faust1979]

 I haven't had any major bugs in Dragon Age it did freeze on me once in the three times I played it and that is it. 

[PrimalWraith]

And so the cycle of internet douchbaggery continues
-The minority of vocal idiots complain,
-Caring, understanding, helpful and possibly naive company workers attempt to show that the company is listening,
-Vocal idiots finaly have a scapegoat to quote and rage against,
-Posts from said company stop,
-Vocal idiots go back to complaining that no-one responds to or respects their "valid" complaints,

I have read all of the posts from bioware(woo) and skipped much of the pathetic whining so forgive me if I generalise or seem trite but I feel two things warrant another crack at trying to get through.

1) "OMG U GUIZ DUN ANSER", you realise ofcourse that people working for a developer (bioware in this case) with a publisher (the ever evil EA) would be breaking the law if they let anything slip, it's called non-disclosure, this relates to ANYTHING to do with the company, even if they are fixing the very problem that 90% of their customer base is threatening to leave the game over they will not even be allowed to tell you they are working on it unless given legal go-ahead.
Make posts with information on bugs you have encountered to help the developers out otherwise stop playing the game if you feel you have been wronged, constantly raging against people who's hands are tied with red tape does no-one any favours, and as you have seen by the response in this thread just makes the developer that's trying to help give up on the collective morons that forums attract.

2) "U GUISE CNT PROGRUM LOLZ", Although the developer can "discuss" the direction a game is heading the last call falls with the publisher on what funding they will continue to get and when the game has to be realeased.
In the constant Tug'o'war between developers trying to make the game they want and publishers trying to get enough money to swim in as quick as they can, things will have to be dropped or "rushed" along the way (That was the whole compromise post from Mr. Woo incase you missed it). Whether a developer knows about a Bug or not they will have a limited ammount of time to find the code responsible,fix it and evaluate it before the publisher wants another game/DLC started, and so bugs will get through.
Unless you are blizzard in which case you have enough money to buy heaven and can do what you want.

I must be alone in the fact that I have only had 1 bug in all of the DA franchise when my main char fell through the floor once in DA:A, anyone else had next to 0 issues with this game?
As a PS to Mr. Woo if he's still watching, thank you for the responses, of the many games played in recent years of the short few weeks reading this forum I have seen more developer responses from Bioware than any other (even mythic) and it shows how much you guys care. My "read between the lines" skillset isn't as good as it used to be but from some of your posts I get the impression that your contract is stopping you from saying "EA did it if the bastards left us alone we would fix everything".

Modifié par PrimalWraith, 14 septembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[gingerbill]

Vandrayke wrote...

gingerbill wrote...

Mr woo thanks for trying to explain and engage with us customers , but i think this thread shows why companies usually dont bother . Dragon age was a massive game and i consider it virtually bug free for its size , certainly better than could be reasonably expected . Unfortunetly game forums these days are a waste of time as they are always just full of people moaning , these same people who moan also buy the game and play it for hundreds of hours and then just complain about it. And of course buy the follow up play that for hundreds of hours and then complain about how awful that game was too .

Ignore them Mr woo and dont let the perpetual complainers put you off speaking to the rest off us .

I disagree.  I think the "whiners" serve a purpose and give companies needed feedback.

If everyone was like me, they'd just think some things weren't a big deal, so companies wouldn't work to keep them to a minimum.

It takes people getting worked up over ridiculously minor stuff to prevent the minor stuff from becoming major.  Is it being ridiculously hyperbolic to say that one of the 500 endings not functioning properly ruins the game?  Sure.  But maybe next time everything will work right.  

good post but i disagree regarding the whiners , good companies take no notice of whiners whatsoever , sensible feedback i'm sure they crave but " I couldnt have the beard i wanted so im never buying a bioware game again , i blame EA" is actually detremental .
 
Bioware have been a briliant developer for a long time , lets give them credit for taking some pride in there work . Complaining constantly about a load of old nonsense just clutters up the forum so its harder to get to the stuff worth reading and then eventually its simply no longer worth shuffling through the crap so everything is ignored.

All i can say is the game sold multiple millions but all i read is the same 20 people moaning all the time . I've completed the game twice on PC and 3 times on xbox , so probably around 200 hours of play , ive seen it freeze twice on xbox and thats the only problem ive encountered. Some people have had genuine problems that are worth complaining about but to be fair to bioware its not that many compared to how huge and complex DA is. This was a game that sold well , was regarded by most people as a brilliant RPG , was also regarded by the critics as brilliant .
 
Overall a resounding success apart from the certain type of person who likes to inhabit games forums spending there ample free time moaning that' the world hates them' with there mantra ' if only they would listen to me'.

[Vandrayke]

gingerbill wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

gingerbill wrote...

Mr woo thanks for trying to explain and engage with us customers , but i think this thread shows why companies usually dont bother . Dragon age was a massive game and i consider it virtually bug free for its size , certainly better than could be reasonably expected . Unfortunetly game forums these days are a waste of time as they are always just full of people moaning , these same people who moan also buy the game and play it for hundreds of hours and then just complain about it. And of course buy the follow up play that for hundreds of hours and then complain about how awful that game was too .

Ignore them Mr woo and dont let the perpetual complainers put you off speaking to the rest off us .

I disagree.  I think the "whiners" serve a purpose and give companies needed feedback.

If everyone was like me, they'd just think some things weren't a big deal, so companies wouldn't work to keep them to a minimum.

It takes people getting worked up over ridiculously minor stuff to prevent the minor stuff from becoming major.  Is it being ridiculously hyperbolic to say that one of the 500 endings not functioning properly ruins the game?  Sure.  But maybe next time everything will work right.  

good post but i disagree regarding the whiners , good companies take no notice of whiners whatsoever , sensible feedback i'm sure they crave but " I couldnt have the beard i wanted so im never buying a bioware game again , i blame EA" is actually detremental .
 
Bioware have been a briliant developer for a long time , lets give them credit for taking some pride in there work . Complaining constantly about a load of old nonsense just clutters up the forum so its harder to get to the stuff worth reading and then eventually its simply no longer worth shuffling through the crap so everything is ignored.

All i can say is the game sold multiple millions but all i read is the same 20 people moaning all the time . I've completed the game twice on PC and 3 times on xbox , so probably around 200 hours of play , ive seen it freeze twice on xbox and thats the only problem ive encountered. Some people have had genuine problems that are worth complaining about but to be fair to bioware its not that many compared to how huge and complex DA is. This was a game that sold well , was regarded by most people as a brilliant RPG , was also regarded by the critics as brilliant .
 
Overall a resounding success apart from the certain type of person who likes to inhabit games forums spending there ample free time moaning that' the world hates them' with there mantra ' if only they would listen to me'.

I see what you mean.  I think they'd change the insane whiner into a tally mark in the "likes beards" column of whatever data they were trying to collect, though, not ignore them completely.  Do they ignore the tone and "threats" and crap like that?  Sure.  

I had ONE glitch that I remember after spending 250ish hours with DAO.  Then again, I didn't install many mods.  

[Collider]

If DA2 does not have bugs like these, I am not buying the game.

[Mecha Tengu]

dGreatLuronzo wrote...

Man what a rant! I've been buying Bioware products for years and have always been impressed by their willingness to work out any problems and put patchs out right away. Some of the comments made in this thread are unwarranted and hurtful. NOT the best way to motivate the folks you're depending on to fix the problem(s).
I'm sure you folks can communicate your frustrations better than this.
ME1&2 are some of the few "no problems" games I've got, and I"ve got a bunch.
I'm a customer too and I still believe that a little common courtesy goes a long way when working with people. Bioware is a FINE bunch of people. People make mistakes. So what? I intend to keep buying their fine products regardless of rants like this.

we may all be very well armchair experts, and most of us may know very little of the gaming industry and Bioware's reasons for such a sloppy job. But these bugs are game breaking and inexcusable. If Bioware wants the support of it's customers, they need to dedicate a much better effort next time. 

[Saibh]

Cigne wrote...

My first playthrough (human rogue) had Anora as single Queen. I don't remember any gamebreaking bugs--but I also don't remember which patch I was on, either.

That bug isn't is talking game-breaking in the sense it just utterly crashes the game (although that's also very common to a lot of people, especially because of patches), but in the sense it's an unavoidable bug in the main questline. But it is impossible for you not to have experienced this bug--unless you played with mods already installed. The one most people remember is the King Alistair bug where everyone consistently refers to Alistair as king, even though you made Anora queen. I haven't heard a single case of anyone avoiding this bug in vanilla. It is there in the console, in the PC, and has not been patched.

dGreatLuronzo wrote...

lol Saibh.. I've played DAO and DAA many, many times and as many, many different types and exploring
different endings..... so...............

But then you've never made Anora sole queen. So. Please, do enlighten us. I have to believe you either have never recognized a bug when you saw it, and simply figured it was just a quirk of design, or your pants are currently aflame.

Maybe I was just insanely unlucky and managed to encounter every bug in that game, but, hey, I actually did play that game many, many, many times.

Maybe you guys are getting some things confused--just because the bug isn't visible like heads disappearing or being bounced to the outsides of a map, doesn't mean they're not bugs. Bugs are also when a quest can't be completed, or when characters start saying things at the wrong time, or something won't trigger for you. They're not just visible bugs.

Cailean wrote...

wait... you buy a game and you start nagging about bugs?! every game has a bug! that is why the developpers make patches!

Four patches, some of them breaking the game further.

And, as said, no one complains about ME bugs because they're hardly there. People complain about DAO because they were numerous, often game-breaking, often unavoidable. Honestly, it's ridiculous to suggest the consumer isn't allowed to be upset their product isn't the quality it's supposed to be. You think they'll just stop releasing buggy games because we don't say anything?

I am amazed at all of the people who perceive that anything said negatively about a game is "whining" or being a "hater". Son, you ain't seen me on these forums. I doubt many could say I'm a hater. You think that no one should point out flaws in a game? They should just...let them go, let them continue, pretend they never exist? The worst thing you can tell an artist is that they are perfect, flawless. That's the worst you can tell anyone with any sort of creative flair. There is always room for improvement--in this instance, I consider there to be a lot of room.

Modifié par Saibh, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[John Epler]

It is possible for someone to feel that a game had negative aspects without being a whiner or a troll. Just as it is possible for someone to feel that a game lacked negative aspects without being a fanboy.



Let us all try and keep this in mind as we continue this discussion! Everyone has the right to their opinion, but no one has the right to flame or insult each other.

[Compel]

 So, thanks to work, I've learned something recently about programming that should immensely cheer up most of the people complaining here.


Unless a software development team is working completely in an absolutely 'Agile' format, the Testing team will despise and hate the developers far, far more than you ever will.

And that's the truth.