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Bioware, rushing, and lots and lots of bugs...


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#401
Blastback

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PrimalWraith wrote...

And so the cycle of internet douchbaggery continues
-The minority of vocal idiots complain,
-Caring, understanding, helpful and possibly naive company workers attempt to show that the company is listening,
-Vocal idiots finaly have a scapegoat to quote and rage against,
-Posts from said company stop,
-Vocal idiots go back to complaining that no-one responds to or respects their "valid" complaints,

I have read all of the posts from bioware(woo) and skipped much of the pathetic whining so forgive me if I generalise or seem trite but I feel two things warrant another crack at trying to get through.

1) "OMG U GUIZ DUN ANSER", you realise ofcourse that people working for a developer (bioware in this case) with a publisher (the ever evil EA) would be breaking the law if they let anything slip, it's called non-disclosure, this relates to ANYTHING to do with the company, even if they are fixing the very problem that 90% of their customer base is threatening to leave the game over they will not even be allowed to tell you they are working on it unless given legal go-ahead.
Make posts with information on bugs you have encountered to help the developers out otherwise stop playing the game if you feel you have been wronged, constantly raging against people who's hands are tied with red tape does no-one any favours, and as you have seen by the response in this thread just makes the developer that's trying to help give up on the collective morons that forums attract.

2) "U GUISE CNT PROGRUM LOLZ", Although the developer can "discuss" the direction a game is heading the last call falls with the publisher on what funding they will continue to get and when the game has to be realeased.
In the constant Tug'o'war between developers trying to make the game they want and publishers trying to get enough money to swim in as quick as they can, things will have to be dropped or "rushed" along the way (That was the whole compromise post from Mr. Woo incase you missed it). Whether a developer knows about a Bug or not they will have a limited ammount of time to find the code responsible,fix it and evaluate it before the publisher wants another game/DLC started, and so bugs will get through.
Unless you are blizzard in which case you have enough money to buy heaven and can do what you want.

I must be alone in the fact that I have only had 1 bug in all of the DA franchise when my main char fell through the floor once in DA:A, anyone else had next to 0 issues with this game?
As a PS to Mr. Woo if he's still watching, thank you for the responses, of the many games played in recent years of the short few weeks reading this forum I have seen more developer responses from Bioware than any other (even mythic) and it shows how much you guys care. My "read between the lines" skillset isn't as good as it used to be but from some of your posts I get the impression that your contract is stopping you from saying "EA did it if the bastards left us alone we would fix everything".

Ouch,I'll admit, we do deserve at least some of that.  We have been focusing to much on the Bioware side of things, and havn't taken into account that EA might be jerking the strings nearly enough.  I let my fustration with the problems in Awakening and the Patches get the better of me, and for that I apologise.  It's just hard for me fathom that Bioware isn't allowed to talk to us about what they are doing to fix the problems in the game.  I'll be honest, it never even occured to me that they legaly couldn't tell us about patches.  Image IPB Being forced to put out a game before they were ready, sure, I can see how they couldn't talk about that, but not patching the game. 

Once again, I am really sorry for any hurt or ill will that I caused in this thread, I meant to comunicate my fustration, but not to accuse anyone at Bioware of incompatance, lazyness, or just not caring. 

#402
bzombo

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Blastback wrote...

PrimalWraith wrote...

And so the cycle of internet douchbaggery continues
-The minority of vocal idiots complain,
-Caring, understanding, helpful and possibly naive company workers attempt to show that the company is listening,
-Vocal idiots finaly have a scapegoat to quote and rage against,
-Posts from said company stop,
-Vocal idiots go back to complaining that no-one responds to or respects their "valid" complaints,

I have read all of the posts from bioware(woo) and skipped much of the pathetic whining so forgive me if I generalise or seem trite but I feel two things warrant another crack at trying to get through.

1) "OMG U GUIZ DUN ANSER", you realise ofcourse that people working for a developer (bioware in this case) with a publisher (the ever evil EA) would be breaking the law if they let anything slip, it's called non-disclosure, this relates to ANYTHING to do with the company, even if they are fixing the very problem that 90% of their customer base is threatening to leave the game over they will not even be allowed to tell you they are working on it unless given legal go-ahead.
Make posts with information on bugs you have encountered to help the developers out otherwise stop playing the game if you feel you have been wronged, constantly raging against people who's hands are tied with red tape does no-one any favours, and as you have seen by the response in this thread just makes the developer that's trying to help give up on the collective morons that forums attract.

2) "U GUISE CNT PROGRUM LOLZ", Although the developer can "discuss" the direction a game is heading the last call falls with the publisher on what funding they will continue to get and when the game has to be realeased.
In the constant Tug'o'war between developers trying to make the game they want and publishers trying to get enough money to swim in as quick as they can, things will have to be dropped or "rushed" along the way (That was the whole compromise post from Mr. Woo incase you missed it). Whether a developer knows about a Bug or not they will have a limited ammount of time to find the code responsible,fix it and evaluate it before the publisher wants another game/DLC started, and so bugs will get through.
Unless you are blizzard in which case you have enough money to buy heaven and can do what you want.

I must be alone in the fact that I have only had 1 bug in all of the DA franchise when my main char fell through the floor once in DA:A, anyone else had next to 0 issues with this game?
As a PS to Mr. Woo if he's still watching, thank you for the responses, of the many games played in recent years of the short few weeks reading this forum I have seen more developer responses from Bioware than any other (even mythic) and it shows how much you guys care. My "read between the lines" skillset isn't as good as it used to be but from some of your posts I get the impression that your contract is stopping you from saying "EA did it if the bastards left us alone we would fix everything".

Ouch,I'll admit, we do deserve at least some of that.  We have been focusing to much on the Bioware side of things, and havn't taken into account that EA might be jerking the strings nearly enough.  I let my fustration with the problems in Awakening and the Patches get the better of me, and for that I apologise.  It's just hard for me fathom that Bioware isn't allowed to talk to us about what they are doing to fix the problems in the game.  I'll be honest, it never even occured to me that they legaly couldn't tell us about patches.  Image IPB Being forced to put out a game before they were ready, sure, I can see how they couldn't talk about that, but not patching the game. 

Once again, I am really sorry for any hurt or ill will that I caused in this thread, I meant to comunicate my fustration, but not to accuse anyone at Bioware of incompatance, lazyness, or just not caring. 

i understand bugs happen. i usually support the devs in these instances, but the excuses and dismissive nature was what i object to more than the actual bugs.

#403
Tinxa

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PrimalWraith wrote...

I must be alone in the fact that I have only had 1 bug in all of the DA franchise when my main char fell through the floor once in DA:A, anyone else had next to 0 issues with this game?


I didn't have any issues with bio games either. In DAO I only encountered a few minor bugs (codex mistakes mostly and wrong ending slides) and even awakening wasn't bad (the only bugger issue was that Velanna's sidequest wouldn't trigger).

As far as I'm concerned bioware games were always pretty much bug free.

#404
Cigne

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Saibh wrote...

Cigne wrote...

My first playthrough (human rogue) had Anora as single Queen. I don't remember any gamebreaking bugs--but I also don't remember which patch I was on, either.


That bug isn't is talking game-breaking in the sense it just utterly crashes the game (although that's also very common to a lot of people, especially because of patches), but in the sense it's an unavoidable bug in the main questline. But it is impossible for you not to have experienced this bug--unless you played with mods already installed. The one most people remember is the King Alistair bug where everyone consistently refers to Alistair as king, even though you made Anora queen. I haven't heard a single case of anyone avoiding this bug in vanilla. It is there in the console, in the PC, and has not been patched.


Is this in Awakenings? I've only one playthrough there, as Anora's Consort.  If it's in doa's epilogue, I must have missed the dialogue.

Now I have to hunt down that savegame...
:unsure:

Modifié par Cigne, 15 septembre 2010 - 12:16 .


#405
Saibh

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Cigne wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Cigne wrote...

My first playthrough (human rogue) had Anora as single Queen. I don't remember any gamebreaking bugs--but I also don't remember which patch I was on, either.


That bug isn't is talking game-breaking in the sense it just utterly crashes the game (although that's also very common to a lot of people, especially because of patches), but in the sense it's an unavoidable bug in the main questline. But it is impossible for you not to have experienced this bug--unless you played with mods already installed. The one most people remember is the King Alistair bug where everyone consistently refers to Alistair as king, even though you made Anora queen. I haven't heard a single case of anyone avoiding this bug in vanilla. It is there in the console, in the PC, and has not been patched.


Is this in Awakenings? I've only one playthrough there, as Anora's Consort.  If it's in doa's epilogue, I must have missed the dialogue.

Now I have to hunt down that savegame...
:unsure:


No, it's DAO. If you make Anora the sole queen (I think it also happens if your king-consort, as well) Alistair and other NPCs will acknowledge Alistair as king instead, for some reason. The epilogue gets it right (but also has the unfortunate glitch of everyone acting like Alistair is dead, too, and sometimes he disappears from the throne room).

#406
DPB

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Saibh wrote...
No, it's DAO. If you make Anora the sole queen (I think it also happens if your king-consort, as well) Alistair and other NPCs will acknowledge Alistair as king instead, for some reason. The epilogue gets it right (but also has the unfortunate glitch of everyone acting like Alistair is dead, too, and sometimes he disappears from the throne room).


My ending was even more messed up than that, everything was as you described, except with the added bonus of no epilogue slide at all for Alistair, even though he was standing right there in the throne room. So I still don't know what happened to him, but I'm guessing for DA2 the game will consider him dead or King, or possibly both, like in Awakening (Anora appeared at the beginning but one of the other conversations had a dialogue option about having 'chosen the new King').

Modifié par dbankier, 15 septembre 2010 - 12:36 .


#407
Cigne

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Saibh wrote...

Cigne wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Cigne wrote...

My first playthrough (human rogue) had Anora as single Queen. I don't remember any gamebreaking bugs--but I also don't remember which patch I was on, either.


That bug isn't is talking game-breaking in the sense it just utterly crashes the game (although that's also very common to a lot of people, especially because of patches), but in the sense it's an unavoidable bug in the main questline. But it is impossible for you not to have experienced this bug--unless you played with mods already installed. The one most people remember is the King Alistair bug where everyone consistently refers to Alistair as king, even though you made Anora queen. I haven't heard a single case of anyone avoiding this bug in vanilla. It is there in the console, in the PC, and has not been patched.


Is this in Awakenings? I've only one playthrough there, as Anora's Consort.  If it's in doa's epilogue, I must have missed the dialogue.

Now I have to hunt down that savegame...
:unsure:


No, it's DAO. If you make Anora the sole queen (I think it also happens if your king-consort, as well) Alistair and other NPCs will acknowledge Alistair as king instead, for some reason. The epilogue gets it right (but also has the unfortunate glitch of everyone acting like Alistair is dead, too, and sometimes he disappears from the throne room).


Okay, I'm guessing that this doesn't happen if you spare Loghain--the only playthrough where I didn't make Loghain a Grey Warden I had Alistair become king.

More on topic, though...  I agree that there seems to be a recurring problem with dlc compatibility. But as to patches with Origins, hey, it's a new engine, a BIG game; I'll reserve judgement of whether Bioware has changed regarding supporting their product, if they abandon Origins after DA2.

#408
Tatinger

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Tinxa wrote...

PrimalWraith wrote...

I must be alone in the fact that I have only had 1 bug in all of the DA franchise when my main char fell through the floor once in DA:A, anyone else had next to 0 issues with this game?


I didn't have any issues with bio games either. In DAO I only encountered a few minor bugs (codex mistakes mostly and wrong ending slides) and even awakening wasn't bad (the only bugger issue was that Velanna's sidequest wouldn't trigger).

As far as I'm concerned bioware games were always pretty much bug free.


There's a list of glitches (read: bugs) up at the Dragon Age Wiki site.  For the most part, it's more Origins than Awakening related and the game-breaking bugs seem to be referenced more heavily in the consoles than PC versions of the game (which is basically representative of the experiences that have been posted here). Also, despite it's promising start, not every bug has been reported or listed (for instance, Saibh's "Anora as Queen" ending doesn't seem to make the list or a lot of the Awakening material, for that matter).  In that regard, for additional information, one should also make use of the Quests entry in the Table of Contents listed on the side of the page and survey the Quests individually (the bugs are usually highlighted in red for easy reference but sometimes not).  Spoilers abound, of course.

Modifié par Tatinger, 16 septembre 2010 - 06:17 .


#409
Phoenixblight

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Anathemic wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

And as Bioware has stated some things can't be fixed because it may actually break the game. Where as DA2 they can start from the ground up and fix the bugs and not worry if it will make X% of their consumers game broken. 


The largest, most intrusive bugs can certainly be fixed.  They currently are in player mods.  Why not take a day, compile said mods, and release them as an official patch?



Comes back to Xbox360 having limit patch size and since I have good amount of those mods they are much bigger than the restriction. If I remember correctly it can only be 100-200MB


Then put it through multiple small patches? I don't see money being a big issue here as TOR is going to come out soon and as you said the upcoming ME3



Unfortunately, because Microsoft limits the size of individual title updates to 4 MBs for the life of the game 



That is why. They can't do much for patches. I stumbled upon this when I was reading about Borderlands new DLC coming out this week. 

Source:
www.destructoid.com/borderlands-patch-brings-new-level-cap-weapons-and-more-183457.phtml

#410
Maverick827

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So two-thirds of their customers cannot get patches because one-third is forbidden?

Why can patches not, at the very least, come in the form of a 160 MSP DLC?

#411
laudable11

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Please Bioware, dont let bugs become a big deal with DA 2. If they do show up please get a handle on them asap.

#412
Naitaka

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HOLY THREAD NECROMANCY BATMAN!





That said, I'll add my 2 cent here. Please, oh please release a toolset+ and DAII resource as soon as possible after the game's release. God knows how much the modding community has already done to fix almost every Bioware title to date. It's not that I don't have faith in Bioware's ability to deliver a compelling story, I just don't have (much) faith for them to deliver a relatively bug free game.

#413
Faust1979

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In my playthroughs of Dragon Age Origins I have never ran into a bug

#414
Naitaka

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Faust1979 wrote...

In my playthroughs of Dragon Age Origins I have never ran into a bug


I can safely say that it is impossible unless your game is heavily modded. Half of the magical properties on items don't even work not to mention many of the skills are still bugged to this date. There are many things Bioware excel at, fixing bugs is just unfortunately not one of them.

Modifié par Naitaka, 16 janvier 2011 - 07:19 .


#415
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

While I don't disagree in principle this strikes me as a wonderful opportunity to get on one of my many soapboxes - I keep them in the garage - and rant about a pet peeve.

The phrase "game breaking."

A game breaking bug is one that quite literally does not allow one to continue the game, either due to crash or unbreakable loop error. People tend to use the term for anything that ruins their enjoyment of the game, not halt their progress. The only game breaking bug in DA:O I am aware of was the one in A Paragon of Her Kind where you could find yourself stuck between the two options given a certain set of circumstances. Using the phrase for annoyances cheapens it, and that annoys me.

/steps off box.

Now - no, I think it's unreasonable to get worried about bugs because we have quite literally no idea what to expect. Number of bugs isn't like WHIP in baseball in that the number one year is indicative of what to expect the next year. In short: We'll see.


I <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 you.... ok to the point...

Bugs plague nearly every game, Bethesda are horrible with them, Obsidian are horrible with them, it's a thing with games. But be glad! Most DO get fixed, how many people have had up 12 play throughs of Origins, Daggerfall, Mass-effect.... but it seems every game has this problem, every fanbase says the same thing, bugs will happen! Get used to it, they always do, don't moan about stopping something you know will happen, just be glad and save every five minutes. 

#416
Beerfish

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Naitaka wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

In my playthroughs of Dragon Age Origins I have never ran into a bug


I can safely say that it is impossible unless your game is heavily modded. Half of the magical properties on items don't even work not to mention many of the skills are still bugged to this date. There are many things Bioware excel at, fixing bugs is just unfortunately not one of them.


What you don't know doesn't hurt you.  These type of things should obvioulsy be fixed but I can't reacall a true game breaking bug lately from BioWare.  All bugs should be squashed but at least they aren't like some other developers that make interesting games but always have shut down restart, can't complete quest bugs.

#417
Guest_Hanz54321_*

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Faust1979 wrote...

In my playthroughs of Dragon Age Origins I have never ran into a bug


You may have MISSED running into the bugs.  Or not noticed them.  But if you had patch 1.03 they were there.  Holy cow they were there.

#418
Naitaka

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Beerfish wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

In my playthroughs of Dragon Age Origins I have never ran into a bug


I can safely say that it is impossible unless your game is heavily modded. Half of the magical properties on items don't even work not to mention many of the skills are still bugged to this date. There are many things Bioware excel at, fixing bugs is just unfortunately not one of them.


What you don't know doesn't hurt you.  These type of things should obvioulsy be fixed but I can't reacall a true game breaking bugs lately from BioWare.  All bugs should be squashed but at least they aren't like some other developers that make interesting games but always have shut down restart, can't complete quest bugs.


True, and I would much rather Bioware spend concertrate their effort on crushing those game breaking bugs, especially ones like those in 1.03 as we've all experienced. However, I believe this is all the more reason to release modding tools to the community. That way minor details such as the one I've listed can be handled by the player themselves while Bioware focus on more important issues.

Modifié par Naitaka, 16 janvier 2011 - 07:30 .