417 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

Khayness wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Currently looking for a script that will spawn Raelnor in Denerim because a bug makes a quest unfinishable...
So yes, please polish it as much as you can! Awakening was a huge letdown.

I couldn't tell you why, but occasionally I do get him there.

If you take the quest in Redcliffe and head from there to Denerim you will run into his son and making him not spawning. Ever.

The only solution is 1.) Find a script that will spawn him 2.) Reload and waste 6 hours of my life.

Edit: Or 3.) Just **** it.

Seriously, these kind of bugs are ruining my enthusiasm. Like a giant ****blocker.

Off to finish my current playthrough...

No, I'm saying that sometimes, on the console version, I'd just get the whole quest to work. No particular reason, it just does, it seems.

[Khayness]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Modders are Renegades.

They are goddamn heroes! Qwinn saved more lives than all DC + Marvel heroes combined.

Modifié par Khayness, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Bobad]

Use modders as subcontractors.

[Revelo]

zahra wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Wasn't one of the reasons for all the DLC would be that those funds would be used to help with patches, expansions, and sequels?

So far, we've had, what, four patches? One of those patches actually broke the game further (messing up steal and creating random crashes). Awakening was clearly rushed and unpolished, and it seems to me that DA2 is being rushed as well, given the timeline of its release. Plus a lot of reasonings given in the Gameplay thread have to do with funds and resources.

We know without a doubt that Warden's Keep sold at least a million copies (so that's, what, seven million dollars?), so the DLC can't be doing that bad, considering how cheaply they seem to be made.

Considering that fans make these fixes in a timely fashion for free without any cost, I fail to see why they can't fix the games as well.

This is what I don't get. 

If modders can do it in a couple of days, why can't Bioware assign one dude to deal with the bugs? In fact for Origins SEVERAL bugs have never been addressed and can only be fixed if you turn to the modding community. Quick examples: Jowans Intentions, Reporting Lyrium trade to Gregoir, Alistair forgetting he isn't the king, Anora not giving the rallying speech, Major epilogue slide errors. (All these bugs were fixed by modders working solo, I can't imagine why a team of devs can't replicate the same results.)

The advantage of Bioware games over all other companies happens to be the story, and when the storyline encounters problems like this its like gimping the only reason we are playing it in the first place.

I mean, Bioware, I love you guys and all, but in the bug department you guys have a pretty awful track record (when it comes to Team Dragon Age). Witch Hunt is a pretty tiny DLC and even this one had major issues. I am afraid to think of the bug-fest that might erupt in a massive game like DA 2. I'd like to believe that since DA 2 is Bioware's new toy, more love and care will be put into the process, but honestly I am not all that optimistic about it.

Quoted for truth.

I am glad to see Bioware people in this thread commenting rather then acting like other companies and not mixing it with the community. But it still doesn't answer the question of how hard is it to identify these problems and fix them? Especially when some of them are ridiculously simple too, the amount of people who buy this game, who invest time and love in fixing these problems when the people paid to make the games are unable to sort it out, surely that must be at least a bit embarrassing for those paid to do it. Considering how many copies of DA or ME are sold and the millions of downloads of DLC, plus the treasure trove of EA's coffers surely means there is enough money to hire someone to identify this, or hire some fans to playtest it for you and figure this out so you don't have to.

Look at Blizzard, people waited ages for a sequel to Warcraft 2, included a cancelled product because it didn't meet their specifications and with the amount of time taken to Make Warcraft 3 was really worth it, an experience which didn't give any such problems during playthrough to my knowledge. If they can afford to spend a long time refining and expanding on their products then other companies must be able to follow suit.

EDIT: I'd be more then willing to wait an extra 6 months for a Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age 2 if it mean't a lot of problems were identified and erased. I'd be reassured that I was getting an experience that wasn't going to cough and die because someone mistyped a number, hell the extra wait would make me want it more.

Modifié par Revelo, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:39 .

[Brockololly]

Dave of Canada wrote...

While there's a lot of bugs, I have a certain limitation to QA (due to how hard their job is, especially for long games like Origins) but... Witch Hunt's immersion breaking bug? HOW was that missed? It makes me worry that not all my choices will import correctly into DA2 and that my Warden who did everything great will actually be a flying cow that saved Flemeth, sided with the werewolves and such.

Yup.

People's definition of "game breaking" may vary, but as far as Witch Hunt is concerned, when the entire draw and premise of the DLC is that you have the chance to confront Morrigan and that its the same Morrigan you dealt with in Origins, its game breaking IMO when its some schizophrenic Bizarro World Morrigan. It might not crash the game or cause your computer to explode, but for a story based game- and a DLC which claims its all about this one scene- having that scene totally busted doesn't sit well with me.

I'm sympathetic of the constraints in QA and all, but Bizarro World Morrigan Bug is like watching a movie in a plushy IMAX theater only to get magically teleported out of the theater in the climactic moment and forced to watch the rest of the movie on a cellphone bootleg in Spanish. Sure, you may have technically  finished the movie, but it sure as hell wasn't the experience you set out to have.

[zahra]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

With all due respect and kittens and rainbows, does that mean that these bug fixes are in the foreseeable future? Because I assumed that since no dev has directly addressed the storyline bugs (the patches tend to deal with combat and loading times etc), these glitches have been left in the game as a sort of charming defect that we will have to learn to live with.



/runs like hell because Stanley Woo is super scary

[Mecha Tengu]

Bobad wrote...

Use modders as subcontractors.

disgusting

We do not need compensation for our work. It is compliment enough for me that people download and play my mods. Lots of hard work and effort was put in, usually we have to use third party programs because the toolset is quite limited.

Modifié par Mecha Tengu, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:39 .

[Stanley Woo]

zahra wrote...
With all due respect and kittens and rainbows, does that mean that these bug fixes are in the foreseeable future? Because I assumed that since no dev has directly addressed the storyline bugs (the patches tend to deal with combat and loading times etc), these glitches have been left in the game as a sort of charming defect that we will have to learn to live with.

I don't think I made any statements about future patches one way or another. I was only addressing the question of "why can modders sometimes do the work that professional developers can't/won't?"

/runs like hell because Stanley Woo is super scary

Please tell my girlfriend that. She thinks I'm a helpless kitten. (stoopid language filter)

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Stanley Woo wrote...

zahra wrote...
With all due respect and kittens and rainbows, does that mean that these bug fixes are in the foreseeable future? Because I assumed that since no dev has directly addressed the storyline bugs (the patches tend to deal with combat and loading times etc), these glitches have been left in the game as a sort of charming defect that we will have to learn to live with.

I don't think I made any statements about future patches one way or another. I was only addressing the question of "why can modders sometimes do the work that professional developers can't/won't?"

/runs like hell because Stanley Woo is super scary

Please tell my girlfriend that. She thinks I'm a helpless kitten. (stoopid language filter)

So, no future tweaks for Master Warden and Blight Queller achievements? Those are really annoying.

Also, what to do you think about Nug Bombs, Mr. Woo?

[Mecha Tengu]

YES NUG BOMBS

[zahra]

Stanley Woo wrote...

zahra wrote...
With all due respect and kittens and rainbows, does that mean that these bug fixes are in the foreseeable future? Because I assumed that since no dev has directly addressed the storyline bugs (the patches tend to deal with combat and loading times etc), these glitches have been left in the game as a sort of charming defect that we will have to learn to live with.

I don't think I made any statements about future patches one way or another. I was only addressing the question of "why can modders sometimes do the work that professional developers can't/won't?"

/runs like hell because Stanley Woo is super scary

Please tell my girlfriend that. She thinks I'm a helpless kitten. (stoopid language filter)

Oh noes, so I have to continue with my pessimism then (don't dev-flame me! I'm fragile! my avatar is an elf!). I understand that Bioware QA's/devs work under higher standards, but that in turn also means that they will have to expect a higher level of expectation from the consumers as well. 

Re: girlfriend - Can't help you there, girlfriends opinions > you. This is the pyramid of life. 

Thanks for responding in this thread. The participation of Bioware devs/writers in the forum is awesome and shouldn't be taken for granted.

[Fishy]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

Yes this world suck.But eh that how thing work .
Someday we might have less restriction and we MIGHT UPGRADE THE WORLD!!!!!!

ICE COLD BABY ICE COLD YEAH!!
(oh crap please don't tell rockstar they might sue me)

Oh no they can't sue me anymore because  i linked my sentence to rockstar!
That also exactly why we need modder.i wonder if any bioware employee went anonymous and modded for their game lol . That would be funny.

What you need to learn it's to keep good idea for yourself.There's always a thief hidding in the shadow.
But on the other side.I'm all up for sharing  knowledge.Man i'm feeling down right now and pumped!!

Too much cafeine and nicotine.

Modifié par Suprez30, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:19 .

[Saibh]

Stanley Woo wrote...

/runs like hell because Stanley Woo is super scary

Please tell my girlfriend that. She thinks I'm a helpless kitten. (stoopid language filter)

As we all know, it is preferable for women to live in utter terror of their boyfriends.

[AlanC9]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Wasn't one of the reasons for all the DLC would be that those funds would be used to help with patches, expansions, and sequels?

I'm pretty sure expansions and sequels are supposed to earn their own keep.

[Anathemic]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

[WingsandRings]

To respond to the OP...



I too am worried about how quickly DA2 is being released and Bioware's track record with other things that have been released quickly. David Gaider said in one of his interviews that they haven't had a ton of time with this one and that it's been a pretty fast ride (paraphrasing) so, keeping in mind the Morrigan DLC, for example, I'm just bracing myself for some seriously buggy issues when DA2 comes out.



I'm as excited as everyone else about DA2, I will buy it the day it comes out, and I'm psyched that it's coming out so soon, but a very small part of me wishes it could come out a little later if it meant Bioware could really do some double and triple checking of bugs.

[Saibh]

Anathemic wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

MMOs will never be comparable to single-players. Still, not cool.

Modifié par Saibh, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:27 .

[Anathemic]

Saibh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

MMOs will never be comparable to single-players. Still, not cool.

Oi, SC2 is a RTS (Real-time Strategy) like Age of Empires and *shiver* Dawn of War. It doesn't require a monthly payment and as far as I'm concerned the online server (Battle.Net 2.0) is free so basically the only paying one has to do is just buy the game.
Still dem custom maps attract lots of people to buy the game, so Blizzard making dah profits.

[Blastback]

Stanley Woo wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
I'd think twice about spouting off [...] far too many people think they know how businesses work [...]

Interesting choice of tone.

it's true nonetheless. Armchair developers, armchair quarterbacks, backseat drivers--we all want to think that we know how things work, and where others are going wrong. Generalizing and assuming helps us to deal with our frustrations and our inability to know everything about every subject all the time. for instance, I'm "generalizing and assuming" that there aren't any small business owners or employees of large corporations in this discussion, even though, logically and statistically, there must be one or two.

But I'm not afraid to be called out on my shenanigans or outright pedantic douchebaggery. i just want to discourage the general forum trends of "if I believe it and say it often enough and loudly enough, it's going to be true" and "the customer is always right."

EDIT: I just wanted to edit this to say that I don't think anyone in this thread is outright WRONG or that they HAVEN'T experienced severe bugs or that it's NOT important to fix them. That kinda stuff, i think, we all agree on. I'm just disagreeing on some of the other points being discussed such as a PATTERN of buggy games or a TREND towards buggier games or bugs being GAME-BREAKING.

Your definatly right than none of us can know just what it is that happens at Bioware that cause bugs to slip through.  And that for all we know there may be a completely justifieble reason.  But I hope that at the same time you can understand our fustration with how obvious some of the bugs seem.  Like Vigilance for consoles. 

Any chance of that getting fixed? Say no more, know what I mean?

[inappropriate content removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 09 septembre 2010 - 04:28 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Blastback wrote...
Any chance of that getting fixed? Say no more, know what I mean?

Master Warden and Blight Queller too, please
Really annoying achievements.

[Maverick827]

Saibh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

MMOs will never be comparable to single-players. Still, not cool.

You know, if it would get us a toolkit in DA2, I would be willing to put up with a "user mod store" like the Rock Band Network.  
Maybe I could even make a few bucks in the process. 

[Blastback]

Saibh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

MMOs will never be comparable to single-players. Still, not cool.

Last I checked Starcraft 2 was a RTS, not an MMO.

Did I miss something?

[TheMadCat]

Maverick827 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

MMOs will never be comparable to single-players. Still, not cool.

You know, if it would get us a toolkit in DA2, I would be willing to put up with a "user mod store" like the Rock Band Network.  
Maybe I could even make a few bucks in the process. 

God no, I rather the developers simply charge for the toolset. Once actual mods start going up for sale you open up one nasty can of worms, especially since console users would be completely shuned out.

[Saibh]

Blastback wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

MMOs will never be comparable to single-players. Still, not cool.

Last I checked Starcraft 2 was a RTS, not an MMO.

Did I miss something?

I'm going to pretend I never said that. I don't know why, but I could have sworn, and I mean, like, on my unborn child sort of sworn, that it was. I honestly couldn't tell you why.

In any case, no amount of bringing this up will make me wrong.

IT'S A GODDAYMN MMO B*TCHES!

[Clover Rider]

Saibh wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I don't want to denigrate the awesome work that modders do, but since I hear it all the time, here are some reasons why: modders aren't restricted in many of the ways professional developers are. Modders don't get paid, so they can work on what they want, when they want, with no expectation of quality or completeness. They also aren't expected to ensure their fixes are compatible with all versions on every platform in every language. They answer to no one, and are accountable to no one.

To put it simply, expectations are different when dealing with modders as compared to professional developers with presumably the backing of a major multinational corporation.

I'm going to  bite, Starcraft 2

Blizzard makes dah money off dem custom maps made by community

MMOs will never be comparable to single-players. Still, not cool.

Last I checked Starcraft 2 was a RTS, not an MMO.

Did I miss something?

I'm going to pretend I never said that. I don't know why, but I could have sworn, and I mean, like, on my unborn child sort of sworn, that it was. I honestly couldn't tell you why.

In any case, no amount of bringing this up will make me wrong.

IT'S A GODDAYMN MMO B*TCHES!

Starcraft 2 makes me sad I suck at it but I love it .