24 réponses à ce sujet

[Spinotech]

There was a similar thread a couple of monthw back, but seeing as Liara was a temporary squadmate in LotSB, what abilities do you think other characters should have if they were temporary ME2 squadmates or ME 3 squadmates?

Wrex:

Warp/Warp Ammo
Shockwave
Urdnot Chief - damage and health bonuses
Carnage - Like a super concussive shot
    Rank 1:  400 newtons of force, 125 damage
    Rank 2:  550 Newtons of force, 250 damage
    Rank 3:  700 Newtons of force, 400 damage
    Heavy Carnage: 800 newtons of force, 550 damage
    Penetrating Carnage - 700 newtons of force, 400 damage, damages all layers of defense (-50% damage per subsequent layers)

Ashley:

Armor-Piercing Ammo
Concussive Shot
Alliance Marine - Improves damage and health
Overkill - Fires a volley of bullets that damages all enemies in the radius (total damage/number of enemies = damage per enemy)
       Rank 1: 20 bullets fired, 3 damage per hit, 1.5m radius
       Rank 2: 40 bullets fired, 4 damage per hit, 2.5m radius
       Rank 3: 60 bullets fired, 5 damage per hit, 3.5m radius
       Lethal Overkill: 60 bullets fired, 8 damage per hit, 3.5m radius
       Area Overkill: 80 bullets fired, 5 damage per hit, 5m radius

Kaiden:

Neural Shock
Throw
Alliance Commander - Improves damage and power cooldown
Sabotage - overheats weapons and weakens enemy defenses
         Stunning Sabotage - stuns enemies as well
         Deep Sabotage - weakens all defense layers

[Shadow_broker]

Wrex:PWNGE OF DOOM

10000000000000000000 x10000000000 Newtons

0 DMG but it works against armor,biotic barriers,and shields

Basically works as a Vangaurd charge but with more oomp y'know?

[Estelindis]

Spinotech: your ideas look nice in some respects, and are certainly very flavourful / fitting for the characters. But it's a bit overpowered to give squad loyalty powers as standard powers, don't you think?  (The unique loyalty powers for Wrex, Ash and Kai themselves seem excellent, though a nagging thought leads me to question the weapons-based ones due to weapons use in ME2 being mostly unrelated to skill ranks.  Sabotage seems unproblematic.)

Modifié par Estelindis, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:11 .

[Omega-202]

 From a previous post on this matter I'd had;
Wrex - Warp
Shockwave
Krogan Battlemaster
Immunity (12 / 25 second cooldown) -provides 4 seconds of 75% resistance to all damage
 - increases to 6 seconds, 8 seconds and 8 seconds/90% resistance or 10 seconds/75%

Ashley-
Concussive Shot
Cryo Ammo (she'd be the only companion so far with this ability, something we desperately need)
Alliance Marine
Overkill (9 / 12 second cooldown)
 - Increases the damage and accuracy of the user's weapon fire for a short duration 
 - For Shepard, also slows the consumption of heat sinks, temporarily doubling the magazine capacity of the active weapon
 - 50% damage boost, accuracy boost similar to AR accuracy upgrade for 5, 8, 10, 12 seconds or 10 seconds with 75% damage boost

Kaiden-
Pull
Incinerate
Alliance Sentinel
Damping (making a return from ME1, 6 / 12 second cooldown)
 - Effective damage ability against Shields and Barriers on par with Warp/Overload, ineffective against Armor
 - Upper levels temporarily burns out target's special abilities through protection (very effective against Eclipse Engineers for example)


This set up gives you new abilities for each teammate in their Loyalty slot and doesn't steal anyone else's loyalty powers.  

For reference, in the other thread, I had Liara listed as:

Liara- 
Warp
Overload (which many forget she had in ME1)
Asari Scientist
Stasis

I'm surprised how spot on I was.  Didn't see Singularity coming, but she still had a nice set up.  

Modifié par Omega-202, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:50 .

[Terraneaux]

Omega-202 wrote...

stuff

Omega you and I think alike, apparently.  The only idea I had different was I had Kaidan's loyalty skill be 'Thought Control,' a sort of combined AI Hacking/Dominate to represent Kaiden's dual tech/biotic focus.  I totally think Ash should have Overkill though.

Modifié par Terraneaux, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[Omega-202]

Terraneaux wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

stuff

Omega you and I think alike, apparently.  The only idea I had different was I had Kaidan's loyalty skill be 'Thought Control,' a sort of combined AI Hacking/Dominate to represent Kaiden's dual tech/biotic focus.  I totally think Ash should have Overkill though.

I'd have 2 major issues with your Kaiden proposal:
1)What would be the point of Dominate if you could instead have your idea/Why would a Engineer bother with AI Hack?
2) Kaiden didn't ever exhibit any inkling of "mind control" powers.

Other than that, I think the chosen Loyalty powers I proposed fit well and MOST importantly, giving Ash Cryo Ammo fills a much needed gap in the companion list.  Its the one major non class power that no teammate yet has.  

[FouCapitan]

Note: Edited loyal ability to avoid completely overshadowing Flashbang Grendade's usefulness.

Based on pre-existing character/ability data, and input already made to this thread, I propose this moveset for Kaidan Alenko to be used in ME2.

Kaidan Alenko
-Throw
-Combat Drone
-Alliance Sentinel > Alliance Operative/Specialist

• Rank 1 - Health: +5.00%;  Power Recharge Time: -6.00%;  Squad Health: +2.50%;  Squad Power Recharge Time -2.50%
• Rank 2 - Health: +10.00%;  Power Recharge Time: -12.00%;  Squad Health: +5.00%;  Squad Power Recharge Time: -5.00%
• Rank 3 - Health: +15.00%;  Power Recharge Time: -18.00%;  Squad Health: +7.50%;  Squad Power Recharge Time: -7.50%
• Rank 4-Operative/Specialist - Health: +20.00%;  Power Recharge Time: -24.00%;  Squad Health: +15.00%/+7.50%;  Squad Power Recharge Time: -15.00%/-7.50%

-Damping - A massive tech grenade that stuns unprotected enemies and burns out omni-tools and biotic amps.  Deals damage to Shields and Barriers.  Ineffective against armor.  Recharge Time: 6.00 seconds (Shepard); 12.00 seconds (Kaidan)

• Rank 1 - Impact Radius: 3.00 meters;  Shield and Barrier Damage: 120.00 points;  Unprotected enemy stun: 1.50 seconds;  Ability lockout: 4.0 seconds
• Rank 2 - Impact Radius: 3.00 meters;  Shield and Barrier Damage: 140.00 points;  Unprotected enemy stun: 1.50 seconds;  Ability lockout: 5.0 seconds
• Rank 3 - Impact Radius: 3.00 meters;  Shield and Barrier Damage: 160.00 points;  Unprotected enemy stun: 1.50 seconds;  Ability lockout: 6.0 seconds
• Rank 4 - Concussive Damping/System Damping - Impact Radius: 6.00 meters/3.00 meters;   Shield and Barrier Damage: 190.00 points/160.00 points;  Unprotected enemy stun: 1.5 seconds/2.0 seconds;  Ability lockout: 6.0 seconds/10.0 seconds

Modifié par FouCapitan, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:18 .

[FouCapitan]

Mostly agreeing with Omega-202's build here, especially with the need for Cryo Ammo on a squadmate.  Just elaborating a bit on how the Overkill mechanics should work with ME2 though.  (Kind of a fusion of Overkill and Marksman from ME1)

Ashley Williams
-Concussive Shot
-Cryo Ammo
-Alliance Marine > Alliance Commando/Shock Trooper

• Rank 1 - Health: +15.00%;  Weapon Damage: +6.00%;  Squad Health: +2.50%;  Squad Weapon Damage: +2.50%
• Rank 2 - Health: +25.00%;  Weapon Damage: +12.00%;  Squad Health: +5.00%;  Squad Weapon Damage: +5.00%
• Rank 3 - Health: +35.00%;  Weapon Damage: +18.00%;  Squad Health: +7.50%;  Squad Weapon Damage: +7.50%
• Rank 4 - Commando/Shock Trooper - Health: +45.00%;  Weapon Damage: +24.00%;  Squad Health: +7.50%/+15.00%;  Squad Weapon Damage: +15.00%/+7.50%

-Overkill - Increases the damage and rate of fire, reduces accuracy loss, and stops heat sink consumption of all weapons temporarily. Recharge Time: 12 seconds (Shepard), 18 seconds (Ashley) [Note: Heavy Weapons still consume ammo]

• Rank 1 - Duration: 6.00 Seconds;  Weapon Damage: +25%;  Rate of Fire: +30%;  Accuracy: +10%
• Rank 2 - Duration: 6.00 Seconds;  Weapon Damage: +30%;  Rate of Fire: +45%;  Accuracy: +20%
• Rank 3 - Duration: 6.00 Seconds;  Weapon Damage: +35%;  Rate of Fire: +60%;  Accuracy: +30%
• Rank 4 - Swift/Deadly Overkill - Duration: 6.00 Seconds;  Weapon Damage: +40%;  Rate of Fire: +75%;  Accuracy: +40%
• Swift Overkill grants +50% movement speed.
• Massive Overkill grants +80% Weapon Damage instead of +40%.

[Spinotech]

Estelindis wrote...

Spinotech: your ideas look nice in some respects, and are certainly very flavourful / fitting for the characters. But it's a bit overpowered to give squad loyalty powers as standard powers, don't you think?  (The unique loyalty powers for Wrex, Ash and Kai themselves seem excellent, though a nagging thought leads me to question the weapons-based ones due to weapons use in ME2 being mostly unrelated to skill ranks.  Sabotage seems unproblematic.)

The only reason I listed squad loyalty powers is because Liara got the adept exclusive of singularity as a power, but yes giving Wrex warp ammo, Ashley armor piercing ammo, and Kaiden neural shock (note: Kaiden was the only ME1 squadmate with neural shock) is overpowered, but I figured that it was only fitting that Ash, Kaiden, and Wrex got loyalty powers if Liara got singularity.

[Estelindis]

Spinotech wrote...
I figured that it was only fitting that Ash, Kaiden, and Wrex got loyalty powers if Liara got singularity.

Fair enough.  After all, as Christina comments, deciding power pool for a temporary squadmate is a different balancing act to deciding one for a general  squadmate.

Omega-202 wrote...

Kaiden-
Pull
Incinerate
Alliance Sentinel
Damping (making a return from ME1, 6 / 12 second cooldown)
 - Effective damage ability against Shields and Barriers on par with Warp/Overload, ineffective against Armor
 - Upper levels temporarily burns out target's special abilities through protection (very effective against Eclipse Engineers for example)

Looks decent!  For some reason, though, I have difficulty with Kaidan getting Incinerate, solely for character reasons.  Setting someone on fire and watching them die screaming just doesn't seem very Kaidan-ish.  (Ignoring the fact that my Infiltrator Shep does it all the time!)   Alternatives...?

Warp would make a lot of sense (as an anti-armour power instead of incinerate), but then the two active non-loyalty powers would both be biotic, and flavour-wise Kaidan should probably have something tech-based as one of those powers.   Also, the Damping loyalty power would make the barrier aspect redundant.

Maybe... combat drone?  I dunno - might be a bit redundant as two other characters have it already.  Ditto AI Hacking.  Ditto Overload (though it might make the most sense, given that he actually had this power in ME1 - but then his power selection might be too similar to Miranda's - and, also, the anti-shields aspect is taken care of by Damping, again).

A version of Sabotage that temporarily disables an opponent's weapons (or, at higher levels, the weapons of a group of opponents) might work well.  Doesn't necessarily mesh with the geth heat sink concept introduced in ME2, but it could be described as jamming some other aspects of the weapons' systems.  Would require some thinking.

So yes: in terms of abilities that already exist in the game, Incinerate really could make the most sense.  I just don't like the flavour.

Modifié par Estelindis, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:31 .

[Omega-202]

I like the work on Damping and Ashley.



I do agree that Kaiden should definitely have a class power similar to Miranda's where it provides group buffs. It just seems like a very "Sentinel" way to do things.



The whole logic behind my Kaiden build was to have another Sentinel character who has the ability to strip all 3 defenses effectively (only Miranda can do that through active powers) and work as a great supporting squadmate. In addition, I included Pull so that Kaiden would jive very well with Miranda, allowing for 2 buffing squadmates, both with the ability to strip all 3 defenses and they have the "Pull/Warp" combo to boot.

[Omega-202]

Estelindis wrote...

So yes: in terms of abilities that already exist in the game, Incinerate really could make the most sense.  I just don't like the flavour.

Sadly I completely agree, but its the best mesh with a Shield/Barrier stripping power.  Incinerate fills the hole that he has as a Sentinel in regards to armor stripping.  

Flavor wise, we could validate it as Kaiden being hardened by his years as a solo spec-op and the trauma of losing Shepard.  Seeing Ash get left behind instead of him, having the Normandy explode, finding out Shep has joined Cerberus...If that doesn't make someone want to start setting things on fire, I don't know what would.

Modifié par Omega-202, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:34 .

[Jade5233]

For Kaidan:

Pull

Overload

Tech armor



And I agree with the Alliance Sentinel

[Estelindis]

Jade: shouldn't Kaidan get a unique loyalty power?

[fortunesque]

It'd be cool if Ash and Kaidan's specialty powers were something new like Liara's stasis.



I can't come up with anything good for Ash because I don't play soldiers at all really... But for Kaidan, seeing some kind of biotic melee move would be pretty sweet.

[Boombox]

Kaidan should get a squad bonus like Miranda, but I don't think Ashley should.

Anyway, I like the ideas so far. Omega-202's ideas would work well. I was happy with what they gave Liara, singularity is very fitting for her.

[Estelindis]

fortunesque wrote...
For Kaidan, seeing some kind of biotic melee move would be pretty sweet.

Full biotic kick to the head...? 

Ahem.

Kaidan is a difficult cookie because you have to balance tech and biotics in terms of offense, defence, and debuffing - and you only have three active powers with which to do this (he had more than twice as many in ME1).  Moreover, it's important to make him quite distinct from Miranda in gameplay terms.  That said, I think a lot of posters here have the right idea.

Boombox wrote...
Kaidan should get a squad bonus like Miranda

Agreed, on the grounds that Kaidan is an Alliance officer and he mentions in ME1 that he's never lost someone under his command to enemy action - he's clearly good at keeping a team together.  I think FouCapitain's suggestions re. leadership bonuses are particularly appropriate: rather than giving weapons bonuses as Miranda does, Kaidan gives a cooldown bonus.  The health bonus works well (as Kaidan has the First Aid and Medicine skills in ME1), but a shield bonus recognising his technical apititude and his ability to fine-tune the group's equipment could also be quite good in flavour terms (plus it would give an additional difference between him and Miranda).

Modifié par Estelindis, 09 septembre 2010 - 04:19 .

[flem1]

Estelindis wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Kaiden-
Pull
Incinerate
Alliance Sentinel
Damping (making a return from ME1, 6 / 12 second cooldown)
 - Effective damage ability against Shields and Barriers on par with Warp/Overload, ineffective against Armor
 - Upper levels temporarily burns out target's special abilities through protection (very effective against Eclipse Engineers for example)

Looks decent!  For some reason, though, I have difficulty with Kaidan getting Incinerate, solely for character reasons.  Setting someone on fire and watching them die screaming just doesn't seem very Kaidan-ish.  (Ignoring the fact that my Infiltrator Shep does it all the time!)   Alternatives...?

Warp would make a lot of sense (as an anti-armour power instead of incinerate), but then the two active non-loyalty powers would both be biotic, and flavour-wise Kaidan should probably have something tech-based as one of those powers.   Also, the Damping loyalty power would make the barrier aspect redundant.

Maybe... combat drone?  I dunno - might be a bit redundant as two other characters have it already.  Ditto AI Hacking.  Ditto Overload (though it might make the most sense, given that he actually had this power in ME1 - but then his power selection might be too similar to Miranda's - and, also, the anti-shields aspect is taken care of by Damping, again).

How about making him over into more of a new-style Sentinel?

I.e. Tech Armor.  I guess AI to make it useful would be the main problem.

Modifié par flem1, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[PsyrenY]

Seeing as how Liara got Singularity and Tali got Combat Drone, Wrex should get Charge imo.

[Kronner]

Wrex:

Heavy Charge

Master Immunity

Heavy Warp

Epic Headbutt (bonus power)



Shotguns, Assault Rifles as weapons.

[Khuutra]

Yeah I'm for the one that lets me take headbutting as a bonus power.

[Estelindis]

Charge would be perfect for Wrex. I agree 100%. :-)

[Guanxii]

 

[jbblue05]

I don't like Overkill as a bonus power for Ash because its already called Adrenaline Rush and giving other classes access to that sort of ability takes away from the Soldier class.
But  I do agree it should be one of her skills

Ashley
Loadout- Assault Rifle and Shotgun

Powers:

Concussive Shot

Overkill  (Adrenaline Rush would be too complicated on an NPC and Ash still gets a bonus to weapon damage.

Alliance Marine  evolves into  Assault Marine(Weapon damage bonus) or Alliance Shocktrooper(Health Bonus)

(Bonus Power)
Sledgehammer Rounds
Rank 1  15% damage bonus to Shields Barrier   20% Armor and Health  20 newtons of force per shot
Rank 2  20% bonus to shields and barrier          30% armor and health   35 newtons
Rank 3  25% shields barrier                                40% armor and health   50 newtons
Rank 4  30% shields Barrier                                50% armor and health   100 newtons of force

Wrex doesn't need Fortification or Immunity he's a biotic which means he has 3 layers of health  Barrier Armor and Health so he's a better tank then Grunt. Carnage should be his bonus power.

Wrex:

Loadout- Assault Rifle and Shotgun

Powers:

Inferno Ammo

Warp

Krogan Battlemaster evolves  Krogan Nemesis (Biotic Boost) Krogan Juggernaut (weapons and health bonus)

Carnage (Bonus power)

Don't forget Wrex automatically gets the Krogan CHarge


Damping is an excellent bonus power for Kaiden. I also think he should have tech armor

Kaiden:

Loadout-  SmG and Heavy Pistols

Powers:

Throw

Tech Armor

Alliance Sentinel

Damping

I like this build of Kaiden because Miranda was the Raider Sentinel so Kaiden should be the Guardian Sentinel

Modifié par jbblue05, 10 septembre 2010 - 12:38 .