211 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow_broker]

DrRockso1551 wrote...

Um they would be tiny humans. And elves always have pointed ears in EVERY GAME.

Please read my original post before you comment. I simply used Ears as an analogy for their cliche personalities IMO

[ThE EviL DarK waRdeN]

yeah..... and i think they r cute when they hold an axe 2 to 3 times there sieze its funny why dont they just settle with knives ???

[Ortaya Alevli]

I'd say give more credit to developers who stuck to certain RPG staples -so roleplaying gamers would feel more "in element" and less "out of place"- and still managed to stay away from as many cliches as possible. In general, elves in DA:O are nothing like you've ever seen. They do not possess their impossible grace and elegance anymore, for one. They've been kicked around all over Thedas and are little more than nomadic savages or dirt in the slums. Even the "proud" Dalish Elves know in their hearts that they received serious asskicking in the past and are in no position to gain a status higher than humans', be it social, cultural or political. Elves are beaten, and severely.

The "stereotypes" preserved in the Dragon Age setting are nothing near disturbing as the stereotypes you face in the real world. BioWare did a good job at differentiating the elves from the image roleplayers had in their mind.

And yes, Sarel is a total jerk to even a Dalish Elf Warden.

[Knight Templar_]

Shadow_broker you seem to be complaing that elves are, well elves.

That just doesn't make sense. If they were totaly differnt to elves as a rule, they would not be elves.

[Leonia]

Hmm, another thread where the OP refuses to be swayed. Why get into an argument if you don't want to have an open-mind?

The elves of Dragon Age are a lot more varied than those in other games. There are major differences between the city elves and the Dalish, in addition to the differences between elves as a whole and Qunari, humans, and dwarves.

If you can't see it, well, it certainly sounds like you don't WANT to see them breaking the archetypes.

I for one can't wait to see more about the Dalish in the future (and city elves, to a degree) because I think Origins gave us just an appetiser on their culture. And, as was said earlier, you only have ONE elven companion in the game so you can hardly judge all elves off that. It's a well-known fact that you're companions are more "interactable" than NPCs and if that one companion isn't even Dalish (well, half-Dalish) then you're really missing out a lot on their viewpoint (unless you played Dalish Origin, and even then you don't learn heaps)

Knight Templar wrote...

Shadow_broker you seem to be complaing that elves are, well elves.

And I think Knight-Templar there just summed it up.

They have pointy ears because they are elves. They wouldn't be elves if they didn't. And not all elves use bows (take Ariane for example or Zevran). And I don't get the impression that everyone is a tree-hugger from any elves, not even the Dalish. They respect nature, sure, because they are nomadic and they rely on the land for survival (like Native Americans) but I don't see them going around being hippies about it all.

Modifié par leonia42, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[BroBear Berbil]

The only cliche that really gets me  is the one that Dwarves are a slowly dying race. Makes me sad.

Besides that, I don't see anything really wrong with fantasy cliches. Elves have pointy ears, Dwarves are Dwarves, etc. DA tries to be a bit different which is appreciated. 

I actually wish Elves were more stereotypical then maybe I wouldn't hate them so much. I talk to an elf in DA and I'm barraged with "being an elf sure is tough, I'm such a victim" and I just want to punch them. I much prefer the snooty, superiority complex elves to these whiney bug-eyed elves.

leonia42 wrote...
And not all elves use bows (take Ariane for example or Zevran).

Psst, switch her weapon set.

Modifié par OnionXI, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:44 .

[Riona45]

OnionXI wrote...

I actually wish Elves were more stereotypical then maybe I wouldn't hate them so much. I talk to an elf in DA and I'm barraged with "being an elf sure is tough, I'm such a victim" and I just want to punch them. I much prefer the snooty, superiority complex elves to these whiney bug-eyed elves.

I like what Saibh had to say on this issue:

If you want them to simply not mention that they're constantly repressed and unjustly treated as a person and as a culture, well, maybe you've never felt that yourself.

[Petehog]

Shadow_broker wrote...

 Elves were incredibly Cliche in DAO particularly the dalish, The only one who was honestly unpredictable was zevran, I want to be invested in their struggles and feel like insights from another race intresting rather than the Typical.

I use The Elf Ears as an Analog for their Cliche personality, Why do Elves always have pointy ears?
Keep Dalish out
Keep Velanna out
Keep Elven Archer squadmate out
Keep Elf who Rose up from the slums despite racial disadvantages OUT
All Cliches all pointy ears

Let's see some of these Rather
Bring Small ELf Warrior WITH Massive armor in!
bring old unatractive elf who is not wise or particularly insightful in!
Bring a squadmate who dosen't mention his/her elven heritage in every chat IN!

So how bout it Bioware, With hawke in the free marches can we write away from those Pointy eared elfs and into a new age of Elfs that care about something more than their Bow's,nature, and Long male Hair?

I disagree on all accounts here.

Having observed much of the designs in Dragon Age, I can tell you that the elves depicted in Dragon Age are the most unique as compared to other videogames and lore.

It really depends on which Origin you played.

I played many of my Origins as a City elf and there is definitely a difference.

I'll even go so far as to say that the changes are so dramatic that it took me off-guard in the beginning.

As an example, try working with the Character creator and making a "Stereotypical" elf.

It is not possible with conventional methods. The in-game engine was made to give a unique appearance to all elves of Ferelden. They have a more gaunt, down-trodden appearance and they don't look like anything in games I have seen. The City elves don't have the same cliche look as those depicted by J.R.R Tolkien.

It is an entirely different direction that Bioware has already taken...and I am thankful that much of what thier game follows...is going in this direction...

although I am a bit saddened in thier recent direction with Dragon Age 2. Although, being a businessman and a salesperson myself, I understand the reasoning.

That being said, I personally want my elves to look like elves that I am accustomed with.

And I'm not sure how I'd feel if the elves were depicted in the way that you mentioned in your original post..

So according your theory, it actually might be better if elves were removed entirely from the game. And a different set of races included instead.

If that is the case, you may like a game called Planescape Torment.

And we can only dream that a new reenvisioning of Planescape Torment with modern 3d graphics...will one day come to us..

Modifié par Petehog, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[Altima Darkspells]

Saibh wrote...


Personally, I think the elves are an entire race of Mary Sues and I support these changes.

I myself find that humans are the general race of Mary Sues in fantasy and scifi settings.  Anything other races can do--even if it's a specialized ability--humans can pretty much always do better.  Humans are always the race that perseveres despite insurmountable odds.

Whenever the world/galaxy needs to be saved, it's a human (and more often than not, mostly humans) at the forefront, having to convince other races to put forth the minimal effort to save their own arses.

Elves, for example, may be beautiful and perfect, but only inasmuch as their own perfection highlights their failings and helps illustrate how much better humans are.  Their beauty is also marred by the fact that only the hero is worthy of such a trophy.

Dwarves are battle-hardened and honor bound, to show how strong humans are in combat, and how wonderfully they take their responsabilities.

So if elves are Mary Sues, what are humans, who can do everything elves can do but better?

[DarthCaine]

They wouldn't be elves if they didn't, would they ?



Just like humans won't be called humans if they had four eyes and six arms

[Stillwater]

Saibh wrote...
I have never once seen an elf have to "rise up from the slums despite racial disadvantages" in any other medium but DAO. The City Elves themselves were a massive subversion of the character archetypes.

Then you haven't played The Witcher.

Although overall I agree with you: archetypes can be good, as long as they aren't used in too cliched a way. Throwing them out the window for the sake of it would probably just make everyone kind of the same.

Modifié par Stillwater, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:35 .

[Leonia]

OnionXI wrote..

leonia42 wrote...
And not all elves use bows (take Ariane for example or Zevran).

Psst, switch her weapon set.

Fair enough. But who needs bows on two characters that are totally AWESOME at dual-weilding?

[DarthCaine]

Saibh wrote...

I have never once seen an elf have to "rise up from the slums despite racial disadvantages" in any other medium but DAO.

Play The Witcher. It did it MUCH better than DAO (much more mature and darker)

[DalishRanger]

Shadow_broker wrote...
Why don't we run into a single Elf in Plate?

Guard for the Tevinter slavers, blocking the back entry into the "quarrentine" house during the Alienage Denerim quests. Wearing heavy armor. I thought I'd remembered he used a two-handed sword, but looking at the screencap, it seems like he just has a long sword - possibly with a shield. I'd have to go back to that point to see. That's a bit of an aside, though.

Just saying - there is at least one elf NPC "in plate" and not in light armor.

Modifié par DalishRanger, 09 septembre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Knight Templar_]

DarthCaine wrote...

They wouldn't be elves if they didn't, would they ?

Just like humans won't be called humans if they had four eyes and six arms

You could call them that just to screw with people.
And call humans, uh, dogfish. Or something less coherent.

[foodstuffs]

I read somewhere that some special elves are born without the points and some remove them for reasons unknown.

[Knight Templar_]

DalishRanger wrote...

Just saying - there is at least one elf NPC "in plate" and not in light armor or using a bow/light swords.

And it looks weird, no?
But on the other hand Shaevra had plate armour and It didn't look all that odd. On the mutant third hand my Elven lass was clad in plate and it looked kinda odd at times.
Maybe it's got to do with the armour patten? Hmm.

foodstuffs wrote...

I read somewhere that some special elves are born without the points and some remove them for reasons unknown.

What you are doing there. I see it.

[Homebound]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Why do Dwarves always have beards?
Why do Wizards always use staffs?
Why do the Archdemon wants to destroy the world?

Because David Gaider promised them all immortality.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Shadow_broker wrote...
Always Fun to hear "if your gonna call a game anything but perfect don't get it"
I critisize because i doubt anyone didn't feel the Cliches of the elf origins or the cliches upon recruiting the dalish.
They are not using the archetype "quite well" IMO, They used Dwarves and mages archetpyes great. Don't see why Elves got such a short end of the stick felt little to no creativity went into Each individual Elfs story beyond "I'm an elf and humans suck" with the excpetion of Zevran and the tevinter mage. Zathrian was very black and white, and didn't care for his subplot at all.

I don't think "cliche" means what you think it means.
And again - if you're so demanding "originality" (and I use the term loosly), I would like examples. Go ahead...come up with a few original ideas...post them here so I can mock you for how unoriginal and trite they will (inevitably) end up being.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 09 septembre 2010 - 07:16 .

[captain.subtle]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
Always Fun to hear "if your gonna call a game anything but perfect don't get it"
I critisize because i doubt anyone didn't feel the Cliches of the elf origins or the cliches upon recruiting the dalish.
They are not using the archetype "quite well" IMO, They used Dwarves and mages archetpyes great. Don't see why Elves got such a short end of the stick felt little to no creativity went into Each individual Elfs story beyond "I'm an elf and humans suck" with the excpetion of Zevran and the tevinter mage. Zathrian was very black and white, and didn't care for his subplot at all.

I don't think "cliche" means what you think it means.
And again - if you're so demanding "originality" (and I use the term loosly), I would like examples. Go ahead...come up with a few original ideas...post them here so I can mock you for how unoriginal and trite they will (inevitably) end up being.

Idea: Elves created humans as experimental pets.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Shadow_broker wrote...

1. Missed my point, I want elfs to break typical idea of an elf somewhat armor was just an example
2.Im sure he was friendly and insightful to his clan, he dosen;t like outsiders as his subplot explains
3.wasn't referring to zevran, Was referring to Velanna as a squadmate who was rather cliche IMO

1. Makes no sense. Heavy plate armor is EXPENSIVE and difficult to produce. City elves live in slums and are poor, dalish live in forests and scournge what they can. Where exactly would they get all that heavy armor from? And why would they? Again, elven body build favors lighter armor, and especially for the dalish, mobility is more important. They're mostly hunters...hunting in the forest in full plate? yeah....very smart.

2. Insightfullness is either something you have, or don't. Zathrian wasn't particually wise, and while he possesed large amounts of knowledge, he remian blisfully ignorant on many inportant things.

3. Vellana cliche?


This just goes to prove that you don't really get what a "cliche" is, nor think things trough.