211 réponses à ce sujet

[Sigma Tauri]

Maconbar wrote...
That's not a cliche, its a trope.

Ummm, no. If it's an uninspired, banal, hackneyed derivative of a better original work, it's cliche.

That especially when the world is as deep as a Renaissance Faire, yet unable to distinguish itself from the rest of the genre.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 09 septembre 2010 - 08:55 .

[maxernst]

Actually, despite how they're portrayed in the movie, I don't think Tolkien's elves had pointy ears and they were much taller than human beings. I can't think of anything that they had in common with DA:O elves except the fact that some of them lived in forests.

[Russalka]

Elves were described by Tolkien to have leaf-shaped or pointed ears.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

because they're people who evolved from pointy eared wolves/foxes...being all catlike.

why are humans evolved from monkies?

a monkey is just a really stupid, yet even more mischiveous tree-feline that likes to swing around in trees while being in the jungle, that's what humans are... pi jacks (even more easier to compute the calculation of pi into their brain for control, where as a super logical elf is Extremely Low Frequency with their superior bioelectric alpha/beta waves, and supreme intelligence)

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:55 .

[maxernst]

Russalka wrote...

Elves were described by Tolkien to have leaf-shaped or pointed ears.

Questionable...you won't find that explicit description in any work that was published during his lifetime, except for the etymology of -las which can mean leaf or ear.  Though perhaps he just thought it went without saying.

http://tolkien.slimy...ssays/Ears.html

[FuturePasTimeCE]

maxernst wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Elves were described by Tolkien to have leaf-shaped or pointed ears.

Questionable...you won't find that explicit description in any work that was published during his lifetime, except for the etymology of -las which can mean leaf or ear.  Though perhaps he just thought it went without saying.

http://tolkien.slimy...ssays/Ears.html

so elf means ear? guess i'll name my next dog spock, or elf (if their ears pointy)...  or maybe even my next kitten... 

[Master Shiori]

Shadow_broker wrote...

I have my opinion. And if you don't like opinions, Stop coming to a forum

That works for you as well, you know?

If you don't like how something is portrayed in a game then don't bother playing it or commenting on it.

Bioware has their own vision of how things should be in Dragon Age. Some of these may be a fresh spin on an old concept, a well established cliche that isn't changed much or an entirely new creation of their own. They're free to decide what they want and aren't going to bother changing something just becasue you happen to find it dull.

If you like the game then fine. If you don't move along, because it isn't going to change just because you demand it.

[Vegielamb]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

because they're people who evolved from pointy eared wolves/foxes...being all catlike.

why are humans evolved from monkies?

a monkey is just a really stupid, yet even more mischiveous tree-feline that likes to swing around in trees while being in the jungle, that's what humans are... pi jacks (even more easier to compute the calculation of pi into their brain for control, where as a super logical elf is Extremely Low Frequency with their superior bioelectric alpha/beta waves, and supreme intelligence)

NO. You're thinking of squirrels here; that's where all the real elf hate is derived. The pointy eared elf resembles squirrels and triggers ancestral rage at the chittering little monsters hurling pine cones at us.

Modifié par Vegielamb, 09 septembre 2010 - 11:12 .

[Shadow_broker]

Master Shiori wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

I have my opinion. And if you don't like opinions, Stop coming to a forum

That works for you as well, you know?

If you don't like how something is portrayed in a game then don't bother playing it or commenting on it.

Bioware has their own vision of how things should be in Dragon Age. Some of these may be a fresh spin on an old concept, a well established cliche that isn't changed much or an entirely new creation of their own. They're free to decide what they want and aren't going to bother changing something just becasue you happen to find it dull.

If you like the game then fine. If you don't move along, because it isn't going to change just because you demand it.

How does that work for me? I was just stating my opinion and she blatantly called me wrong and said it was all in my head, I never dismissed her opions even if i didn't agree.
Bioware can listen to feedback, Not saying they will just explaining my dislike for the subject.
If i don't like one small aspect of a game that i love in most other ways rather than submit my thoughts to the appropriate place of criticism i should rather just avoid the game? that makes sense.
Sequels for games can take feedback on what players disliked in the original
 to improve the game for the better.

[Saibh]

Shadow_broker wrote...

How does that work for me? I was just stating my opinion and she blatantly called me wrong and said it was all in my head, I never dismissed her opions even if i didn't agree.
Bioware can listen to feedback, Not saying they will just explaining my dislike for the subject.
If i don't like one small aspect of a game that i love in most other ways rather than submit my thoughts to the appropriate place of criticism i should rather just avoid the game? that makes sense.
Sequels for games can take feedback on what players disliked in the original
 to improve the game for the better.

Seriously, you have a terrible idea about what constitutes a "personal attack". Same with cliches. It is all in your head. Several people keep bringing up non-cliche elves and you just ignore them. It seems to be you just want to disregard anyone who doesn't agree with you.

I mean, if opinions are so sacred to you, how can you call me out when I say that in my opinion, your opinion is all in your head. For your opinion to be valid--and yeah, when you post a thread like this, especially one you present as a fact--you better have the power to back it up. You haven't done that.

Your analogue for elven cliches is their ears? Ears are an archetype associated with them. To remove it is to start to remove the foundation of why we call them "elves". That's my analogue to why these "cliches" won't go away.

As I pointed out earlier, the lore makes up the foundation of the game. If you don't like it, there's no reason to comment about it.

Modifié par Saibh, 09 septembre 2010 - 11:25 .

[Dave of Canada]

Saibh wrote...


Seriously, you have a terrible idea about what constitutes a "personal attack".

STOP PERSONALLY ATTACKING ME, SAY-B.

[Shadow_broker]

Saibh wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

How does that work for me? I was just stating my opinion and she blatantly called me wrong and said it was all in my head, I never dismissed her opions even if i didn't agree.
Bioware can listen to feedback, Not saying they will just explaining my dislike for the subject.
If i don't like one small aspect of a game that i love in most other ways rather than submit my thoughts to the appropriate place of criticism i should rather just avoid the game? that makes sense.
Sequels for games can take feedback on what players disliked in the original
 to improve the game for the better.

Seriously, you have a terrible idea about what constitutes a "personal attack". Same with cliches. It is all in your head. Several people keep bringing up non-cliche elves and you just ignore them. It seems to be you just want to disregard anyone who doesn't agree with you.

I mean, if opinions are so sacred to you, how can you call me out when I say that in my opinion, your opinion is all in your head. For your opinion to be valid--and yeah, when you post a thread like this, especially one you present as a fact--you better have the power to back it up. You haven't done that.

Your analogue for elven cliches is their ears? Ears are an archetype associated with them. To remove it is to start to remove the foundation of why we call them "elves". That's my analogue to why these "cliches" won't go away.

As I pointed out earlier, the lore makes up the foundation of the game. If you don't like it, there's no reason to comment about it.

I didn't even mention Personal attack in what you quoted
I never ignored the non cliche elves people bring up i have stated multiple times and ackolwedge the following as non cliche
Zevran
Tevinter mage
Zarathrian

I also never stated that what i was saying was fact, Quite the contrary i said multiple times im entitilted to my OPINION it was in almost all my post. I have defended my opinion for the first four pages on what and why i think elves in the majiorty are cliche, you don't have to agree.
Lore of the game never states anything about all elves wielding bows and wearing leather, and i don't know what forum your on but whenever people don't like something (part of DA history or not) they comment on it very strongly
People want god baby established as cannon
People want body models changed for the reason of big boobs
People want Quanari changed back to their original look
If you don't like something about the game i don't see how it is in any way innapropriate to bring up your complaint despite the circumstances.

[ErichHartmann]

I'll say it again cliche is an overused word and very subjective. /carry on

[Shadow_broker]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I'll say it again cliche is an overused word and very subjective. /carry on

Very true, And Regretting using that choice of words because some people act like it's offensive or automatically proclaims that i think Dragon age is a pile of crud because it includes one in my opion, Which i do not.

[Malanek]

I just get the feeling that this topic is missing the point with what the writers have done. It is about taking the existing mythology of elves and putting their own twist on it. The shape of their ears may seem superficial but to visually identify them as elves it is probably the single most important characteristic. In contrast making their ears rounded does not add anything to the story. I see absolutely no reason to round their ears. The way to add their own take on the elves comes in their history and their behavior which is quite different to common mythology, although it did bare strong resemblance to The Witcher.

[namedforthemoon]

If we all just stop posting, this thread will die a natural death.

[Saibh]

Shadow_broker wrote...

I didn't even mention Personal attack in what you quoted

And? Am I supposed to ignore you ever said it? 

I never ignored the non cliche elves people bring up i have stated multiple times and ackolwedge the following as non cliche
Zevran
Tevinter mage
Zarathrian

You attempted to prove to me that Zathrian was, in fact, a cliche, until multiple people pointed out how and why he wasn't.

Also. You tell me, how is Erlina a cliche for elves? A clever and strong-willed handmaid who has utter loyalty to her queen? Shianni? A fiesty drunk who is alone in her fight to make life better for her people? Sarel, a storyteller who is overcome with anger and grief at the death of his loved ones, and treats those around him, even one of his own people, bitterly? Athras, an aggrieved husband is no elven cliche. Mithra, the suspicious guard who remains cordial and if you help the Dalish, ultimately forgiving and kind? What about Cyrion? He's simply your caring, world-weary father. Soris? Your cowardly but loyal cousin? I mean, jeez, even those beggars aren't an elven cliche.

Seriously, I don't know where you get it from.

I also never stated that what i was saying was fact, Quite the contrary i said multiple times im entitilted to my OPINION it was in almost all my post. I have defended my opinion for the first four pages on what and why i think elves in the majiorty are cliche, you don't have to agree.

I'm talking about the OP, where you present it as fact.

Lore of the game never states anything about all elves wielding bows and wearing leather, and i don't know what forum your on but whenever people don't like something (part of DA history or not) they comment on it very strongly

No, I'm talking about the use of elves and the archetypes we associate them as lore. It is fundamental to the game. It's a part of its foundations. We're also not given any reason why dwarves are short or mages read books and wear robes.

It's worth pointing out that, despite what you may believe, elves in DAO do not abide by the Tolkien archetype, but merely take cues from them.

Modifié par Saibh, 09 septembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[Shadow_broker]

Saibh wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

I didn't even mention Personal attack in what you quoted

And? Am I supposed to ignore you ever said it? 

I never ignored the non cliche elves people bring up i have stated multiple times and ackolwedge the following as non cliche
Zevran
Tevinter mage
Zarathrian

Excusing Zevran, you attempted to prove to me that Zathrian was, in fact, a cliche, until multiple people pointed out how and why he wasn't.
Also. You tell me, how is Erlina a cliche for elves? A clever and strong-willed handmaid who has utter loyalty to her queen? Shianni? A fiesty drunk who is alone in her fight to make life better for her people? Sarel, a storyteller who is overcome with anger and grief at the death of his loved ones, and treats those around him, even one of his own people, bitterly? Athras, an aggrieved husband is no elven cliche. Mithra, the suspicious guard who remains cordial and if you help the Dalish, ultimately forgiving and kind? What about Cyrion? He's simply your father. Soris? Your cowardly but loyal cousin? I mean, jeez, even those beggars aren't an elven cliche.

Seriously, I don't know where you get it from.

I also never stated that what i was saying was fact, Quite the contrary i said multiple times im entitilted to my OPINION it was in almost all my post. I have defended my opinion for the first four pages on what and why i think elves in the majiorty are cliche, you don't have to agree.

I'm talking about the OP, where you present it as fact.

Lore of the game never states anything about all elves wielding bows and wearing leather, and i don't know what forum your on but whenever people don't like something (part of DA history or not) they comment on it very strongly

No, I'm talking about the use of elves and the archetypes we associate them as lore. It is fundamental to the game. It's a part of its foundations. We're also not given any reason why dwarves are short or mages read books and wear robes.

It's worth pointing out that, despite what you may believe, elves in DAO do not abide by the Tolkien archetype, but merely take cues from them.

"I'm talking about the OP, where you present it as fact."
I did no such thing

"Excusing Zevran, you attempted to prove to me that Zathrian was, in fact, a cliche, until multiple people pointed out how and why he wasn't."
I simply pointed out that Zarathrian was indeed Wise, caring, and compassionate IMO which you stated he was not.
"No, I'm talking about the use of elves and the archetypes we associate them as lore. It is fundamental to the game. It's a part of its foundations. We're also not given any reason why dwarves are short or mages read books and wear robes."
But the diffrence is Dwarves and mages Differ in personality.
 all elves were predictabley elven. Humans are bad,They like Bows, They like nature, They like braids in their hair, they wear tight leather armor. That all seems cliche and why must  all of them must follow those rules with the exception of the few mentioned before.
There is not a single elf other than Zevran who was memorable to me, The dwarves and mages had almost all characters that i couldn't wait to hear more about, dales and the alieanage on the otherhand were just a bore to me 
"It's worth pointing out that, despite what you may believe, elves in DAO do not abide by the Tolkien archetype, but merely take cues from them."

Yet again your claiming my OPINION can actually be wrong?

[Shadow_broker]

Getting off forums for tonight, I'll reply to anymore arguements tomrrow if this thread is still alive

[HoonDing]

The Elves in DA:O are pretty unique, actually. I don't think there are Elves in any fantasy setting that are as pathetic, almost begging to be used as doormats, as the ones in DA:O. The Dalish almost made the Keebler Cookie Elves seem grim.

Modifié par virumor, 10 septembre 2010 - 12:29 .

[SirOccam]

Saibh wrote...

Shianni? A fiesty drunk who is alone in her fight to make life better for her people?

Wha-?

[namedforthemoon]

SirOccam wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Shianni? A fiesty drunk who is alone in her fight to make life better for her people?

Wha-?

She started drinking early for the wedding festivities, remember? In the City Elf origin?

[Dave of Canada]

SirOccam wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Shianni? A fiesty drunk who is alone in her fight to make life better for her people?

Wha-?

She used a bottle to hit Vaughan, she's totally a drunk!

*sarcasm off*

[Dave of Canada]

namedforthemoon wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Shianni? A fiesty drunk who is alone in her fight to make life better for her people?

Wha-?

She started drinking early for the wedding festivities, remember? In the City Elf origin?

That doesn't make somebody a drunk, though. I've known a lot of people who drink early.