211 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow_broker]

Saibh wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

Saibh wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

I know your answer, and frankly I believe it's not as concrete as you may think. The choice of how an elf looks depends on the artist or author for a piece of work, being that elves are malleable as any fictional race. The fact that Dragon Age made elves have long ears suggest Bioware wanted them to be recognizable as elves being that they do have a common image imprinted in the public's mind. This also distinguishes them that even if they are humanoid, they are not human. However, if someone wants to make an elf in a more traditional folkloric appearance with normal ears and short stature, you can argue they're more akin to gnomes and dwarves more, that guy will still call it an elf.

I believe there's another way to call an elf than archetype. It's called deviation.

No, those are two different creatures with the same name. People would forever be explaining that these elves are the Keebler-Santa kind, not the Tolkien-WoW kind. Regardless, I usually see short elves with pointed ears. Maybe long ago in folklore they didn't, but, hey, long ago in folklore Tolkien elves didn't exist. The closest you could get were the Sidhe.

That's not my point. What I'm saying is that elves are fictional creatures. They're more subject to the whims and imagination of the author or artist. Elves are creatures of myth and folklore. They are not a biological species. The idea of an elf with pointy ears have become popularized as a result of fantasy, but it was because of deviating from an folkloric idea of elves. What does that suggest about fictional races? They are mutable, but those changes are subject to their role in a fantasy work.

There is an accepted archetype now, and to seperate something fundamental with the elves completely--like pointed ears--would be to seperate them from what we call elves.

I think you're also missing the point where Tolkien just stamped the word "elf" on the species he made (with inspiration, of course), not that they were made over time and eventually evolved into the beings Tolkien used. Since their conception we've held several things true about them--whether Tolkien gave the elves sharp ears is a bit debatable, but, we, as a culture have taken that to be true.

We're not gonna reach a compromise or anything near it
Let this thread die.

[Saibh]

Shadow_broker wrote...

We're not gonna reach a compromise or anything near it
Let this thread die.

OPs don't get to be the dictators of the thread, sorry. There's still on-topic conversations going on, and threads rarely reach a consensus.

[Technicoloured Knight]

I think that the reasons why elves in Dragon Age don't wear plate armour and the Dalish have a predilection for bows are all due to practicality.

Why do Dalish elves not wear heavy plate armour? They don't wear it because it would be heavy and impractical for such a nomadic people to use. Plate armour is more useful for large scale pitched battles rather than the ambush tactics that the Dalish appear to use. Remember that the Dalish response to outside threats is generally to move on from that area - a situation wherein it might perchance be better to retain the ability to quickly run away.

Furthermore, there seems to be a notable lack of mining operations amongst the Dalish, thereby suggesting that the metal they use to craft weopons is obtained either by limited trade with either the dwarves or humans (limited because of the nomadic nature of the Dalish). Since it requires considerably more metal to make a set of plate mail than to make a Dar'Misu, it might simply be the case that the Dalish don't have the resources required to make any large quantities of heavy metallic armour. However, they do seem to have access to plenty of wood - which can be used to construct all those bows they use in the game. Bows are also far more practical for hunting than any other weopon they have easy access to - ergo, it makes sense for the nomadic Dalish to use them.

Why do city elves not wear plate armour? The obvious anwser is that they are very, very poor. Plate armour is slightly beyond their income. Also, if you recall the posters in the Alienage banning elves from wearing arms, city elves might not want to waltz around in a full set of plate mail for fear of attracting unwanted attention. The reasons why elf slavers from Tevinter are free to wear heavier armour than usual is because not only do they lack the fear of drawing attention to themselves, but they are also wealthy enough to purchase such armour.

Therefore the reason why the Dalish use bows and the majority of elves in Dragon Age are lightly armoured is because it all makes sense in the context of the setting.

Hmm... I seem to have rambled on a tad longer than I anticipated. My apologies.

[Shadow_broker]

Saibh wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

We're not gonna reach a compromise or anything near it
Let this thread die.

OPs don't get to be the dictators of the thread, sorry. There's still on-topic conversations going on, and threads rarely reach a consensus.

We should be able to
When a thread goes on for a week with the same 2 arguements back and fourth you should be mature enough to walk away and let it die
I don't dictate this thread but that dosen't mean you should continue this pointless arguement

[Saibh]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

We're not gonna reach a compromise or anything near it
Let this thread die.

OPs don't get to be the dictators of the thread, sorry. There's still on-topic conversations going on, and threads rarely reach a consensus.

We should be able to
When a thread goes on for a week with the same 2 arguements back and fourth you should be mature enough to walk away and let it die
I don't dictate this thread but that dosen't mean you should continue this pointless arguement

Then don't make any more threads. And stop derailing.

[Shadow_broker]

Saibh wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

We're not gonna reach a compromise or anything near it
Let this thread die.

OPs don't get to be the dictators of the thread, sorry. There's still on-topic conversations going on, and threads rarely reach a consensus.

We should be able to
When a thread goes on for a week with the same 2 arguements back and fourth you should be mature enough to walk away and let it die
I don't dictate this thread but that dosen't mean you should continue this pointless arguement

Then don't make any more threads. And stop derailing.

Exscuse me for not knowing that my thread will be circling the same arguement for a week,
This thread needs to be derailed and locked, pointless already.
Btw making a comment relating to the arguement is not "derailing" my opinion on the subject matter of this thread stands at "this is pointless"

[Sigma Tauri]

Saibh wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

Saibh wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

I know your answer, and frankly I believe it's not as concrete as you may think. The choice of how an elf looks depends on the artist or author for a piece of work, being that elves are malleable as any fictional race. The fact that Dragon Age made elves have long ears suggest Bioware wanted them to be recognizable as elves being that they do have a common image imprinted in the public's mind. This also distinguishes them that even if they are humanoid, they are not human. However, if someone wants to make an elf in a more traditional folkloric appearance with normal ears and short stature, you can argue they're more akin to gnomes and dwarves more, that guy will still call it an elf.

I believe there's another way to call an elf than archetype. It's called deviation.

No, those are two different creatures with the same name. People would forever be explaining that these elves are the Keebler-Santa kind, not the Tolkien-WoW kind. Regardless, I usually see short elves with pointed ears. Maybe long ago in folklore they didn't, but, hey, long ago in folklore Tolkien elves didn't exist. The closest you could get were the Sidhe.

That's not my point. What I'm saying is that elves are fictional creatures. They're more subject to the whims and imagination of the author or artist. Elves are creatures of myth and folklore. They are not a biological species. The idea of an elf with pointy ears have become popularized as a result of fantasy, but it was because of deviating from an folkloric idea of elves. What does that suggest about fictional races? They are mutable, but those changes are subject to their role in a fantasy work.

There is an accepted archetype now, and to seperate something fundamental with the elves completely--like pointed ears--would be to seperate them from what we call elves.

I think you're also missing the point where Tolkien just stamped the word "elf" on the species he made (with inspiration, of course), not that they were made over time and eventually evolved into the beings Tolkien used. Since their conception we've held several things true about them--whether Tolkien gave the elves sharp ears is a bit debatable, but, we, as a culture have taken that to be true.

Archetype is a generality that evolves from post-Tolkein authors who were willing to use it into their work because they wanted to, not because their elves are going to be forced exclusion. I've never denied that there is a popular dominating image of elves. I however don't believe that making an elf with normal human ears makes them any less of an elf, and that is determined by the author. If Tolkein hadn't imagined elves in the popular image, it suggests the popular image is imposing itself to a work. Regardless, creatures of myth even in fantasy are still under the imagination's control and it's not really an idea that set in stone.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 11 septembre 2010 - 09:48 .

[addiction21]

When was a week changed from 7 to 3 days?



F.Y.I.

It is only going in circles for you shadow because you repeat yourself and the same arguements ad nauseum adding nothing to the actual discussion. If all you want to do is have people agree with you then a forum ANY forum be it public or internet is not the place for you.

[Shadow_broker]

addiction21 wrote...

When was a week changed from 7 to 3 days?

F.Y.I.
It is only going in circles for you shadow because you repeat yourself and the same arguements ad nauseum adding nothing to the actual discussion. If all you want to do is have people agree with you then a forum ANY forum be it public or internet is not the place for you.

I haven't commented in like 2 days how can i repeat myself for the last 3 pages if im not on them?
I never said i wanted people to agree with me, I said that this arguement is going no where and think it's pointless, please stop trying to start a flame war with me. Your comment was in no way related to the subject matter of the thread and would thank you to not post another one like it

[Quercus]

That's an easy question.

Because if they are flat, they will fall off.



Next question please.

[Nihlus12]

I think they should keep the pointy ears. I personally think they should have proper men's beards and they should all sound like Brian Blessed.....