120 réponses à ce sujet

[NKKKK]

Make the Korgan look like angry school boys. Here's to hopefully seeing more of them in the series.

[-Skorpious-]

I want the reapers to land on their planet and indoctrinate the entire species. Think about it- an entire army of indoctrinated Yahg would make incredible foot-soldiers/enforces for the reapers.

Plus, the Yahg's technology is nowhere near that of other galactic races, meaning, they have a greater chance of succumbing to the reapers mind-control (plus, they probably lack the technology to actually combat a reaper, let alone a fleet of them).

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 09 septembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[NKKKK]

I would like for them be kind of like sub-bosses. Similar to Krogan Battlemasters

[FuturePasTimeCE]

dude, the game then got all halo... with the large size tomboy's boytoy's... the fyaghs...

[NKKKK]

What? This is serious, I would like to see more of this over powered race.

[searanox]

The yahg are pretty neat, design wise, but their background is positively anemic compared to the other races.  They have potential to find a meaningful place in the story but I really don't see them becoming a staple like some of the other races.

Regarding the Shadow Broker, it's very obvious that BioWare had no real idea who he/she even was until they got around to making the DLC.  I was genuinely surprised to find that the Shadow Broker wasn't an established character, but rather... a big ugly alien who you fight in a boss battle.  Really?  Is that the best they could do?  It's a total ass-pull, and while the Shadow Broker doesn't have to be an established character, the way it was done feels random, lazy, and incoherent.  Certainly someone suggested better ideas.  They must have.

I think this really is endemic of a problem with Mass Effect 2 and the direction the series is going as a whole.  I'll just come out and say it, the new writers they have for the series are okay when it comes to dialogue, and awful when it comes to producing coherent stories.  Everything in Mass Effect 2 feels like it was made up along the way, and we're expected to excuse characters with poor motivations, illogical events, and stupid decisions in the name of big explosions.  I was hoping Lair of the Shadow Broker would be something that moved in the right direction this way, but nope.  The individual elements are fine, but the way they come together is just sloppy, and in a relatively small DLC add-on, that's pretty inexcusable.

Modifié par searanox, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[NKKKK]

Lol I'll admit, it was still pretty epic though. But this has potential

[NKKKK]

Um no, cause that would have been cliche, same with revealing it was Liara's father (another interesting topic here)

[Misterpeanuts]

yorkj86 wrote...

The yahg were an ass-pull. The Shadow Broker reveal was a groan-worthy moment for me. Even worse, the species was made out to be stronger and tougher than the krogan and more adaptive than the humans. One-upsmanship doesn't make a good species. It just makes another species. Lastly, it even looked like some kind of Darkspawn. I would have preferred a John Henry Eden-type situation, to the yahg.

While they may be stronger then the Krogan I highly doubt they have the same survivability what with the Krogans having backups for pretty much every organ. Now with that said Yahg for ME 3 LI anyone?

Modifié par Misterpeanuts, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:23 .

[searanox]

NKKKK wrote...

Um no, cause that would have been cliche, same with revealing it was Liara's father (another interesting topic here)

There's nothing wrong with cliches and tropes so long as they are executed well.  BioWare spent years setting up the Shadow Broker and they took possibly the dumbest and most baffling route possible.

[Synobal]

yorkj86 wrote...

The yahg were an ass-pull. The Shadow Broker reveal was a groan-worthy moment for me. Even worse, the species was made out to be stronger and tougher than the krogan and more adaptive than the humans. One-upsmanship doesn't make a good species. It just makes another species. Lastly, it even looked like some kind of Darkspawn. I would have preferred a John Henry Eden-type situation, to the yahg.

Ya I was disappointed about it being some new species and some random new character. I was like meh I was hoping for a conspiracy sort of ending. Zomg shadow broker is the bar keep from the ambassadors lounge in ME 1.

[Arijharn]

searanox wrote...

The yahg are pretty neat, design wise, but their background is positively anemic compared to the other races.  They have potential to find a meaningful place in the story but I really don't see them becoming a staple like some of the other races.

Regarding the Shadow Broker, it's very obvious that BioWare had no real idea who he/she even was until they got around to making the DLC.  I was genuinely surprised to find that the Shadow Broker wasn't an established character, but rather... a big ugly alien who you fight in a boss battle.  Really?  Is that the best they could do?  It's a total ass-pull, and while the Shadow Broker doesn't have to be an established character, the way it was done feels random, lazy, and incoherent.  Certainly someone suggested better ideas.  They must have.

I think this really is endemic of a problem with Mass Effect 2 and the direction the series is going as a whole.  I'll just come out and say it, the new writers they have for the series are okay when it comes to dialogue, and awful when it comes to producing coherent stories.  Everything in Mass Effect 2 feels like it was made up along the way, and we're expected to excuse characters with poor motivations, illogical events, and stupid decisions in the name of big explosions.  I was hoping Lair of the Shadow Broker would be something that moved in the right direction this way, but nope.  The individual elements are fine, but the way they come together is just sloppy, and in a relatively small DLC add-on, that's pretty inexcusable.

This is your biggest problem, you think of 'lore' as being solely in a vacuum, that it is impossible (or rather; shouldn't) to grow or change depending on circumstances. If you think that, then I think you'll be disappointed in any fantastical setting because things don't progress in a manner you see fit.

Sometimes lore has to change to make the universe more interesting (I dislike thermal clips, but it's made combat more dynamic than firing nonstop till maybe it overheating...). Sometimes things don't have to be connected to everything else either (lets face it, it'd start to become predictable) to be believable. And sometimes, BioWare wants to expand upon the universe as well.

[InfiniteCuts]

searanox wrote...

The yahg are pretty neat, design wise, but their background is positively anemic compared to the other races.  They have potential to find a meaningful place in the story but I really don't see them becoming a staple like some of the other races.

Regarding the Shadow Broker, it's very obvious that BioWare had no real idea who he/she even was until they got around to making the DLC.  I was genuinely surprised to find that the Shadow Broker wasn't an established character, but rather... a big ugly alien who you fight in a boss battle.  Really?  Is that the best they could do?  It's a total ass-pull, and while the Shadow Broker doesn't have to be an established character, the way it was done feels random, lazy, and incoherent.  Certainly someone suggested better ideas.  They must have.

I think this really is endemic of a problem with Mass Effect 2 and the direction the series is going as a whole.  I'll just come out and say it, the new writers they have for the series are okay when it comes to dialogue, and awful when it comes to producing coherent stories.  Everything in Mass Effect 2 feels like it was made up along the way, and we're expected to excuse characters with poor motivations, illogical events, and stupid decisions in the name of big explosions.  I was hoping Lair of the Shadow Broker would be something that moved in the right direction this way, but nope.  The individual elements are fine, but the way they come together is just sloppy, and in a relatively small DLC add-on, that's pretty inexcusable.

Pretty much this... I enjoyed LotSB, but that reveal moment was a let-down.  Hate to be a downer on this... but I often feel like they take huge steps forward with the series technically (the base and planet's atmosphere were such excellent designs) only to dilute its characterizations to mere cliches.  A horned demon with a short fuse as the galaxy's most powerful information dealer... just doesn't fly with me.  "Darkspawn" is the first thing that came to mind when it stood.  It's pretty evident to me now that substance will take a back seat to action and over-the-top fanfare, so I'll keep my expectations low that front.  It seems the artists are the ones keeping ME alive for me at this point.

[searanox]

Arijharn wrote...

This is your biggest problem, you think of 'lore' as being solely in a vacuum, that it is impossible (or rather; shouldn't) to grow or change depending on circumstances. If you think that, then I think you'll be disappointed in any fantastical setting because things don't progress in a manner you see fit.

Sometimes lore has to change to make the universe more interesting (I dislike thermal clips, but it's made combat more dynamic than firing nonstop till maybe it overheating...). Sometimes things don't have to be connected to everything else either (lets face it, it'd start to become predictable) to be believable. And sometimes, BioWare wants to expand upon the universe as well.

I'm not saying you can't expand lore, or that we can't have new races added to the existing ones, or new technology, or whatever.  The issue comes when it turns into a crutch for lazy storytelling.  As I said, BioWare set up the character of the Shadow Broker across two games, only to reveal him as a throwaway boss designed specifically to look cool and imposing while you riddled him with bullets.  There's nothing to him as a character at all - he's just another huge bug-eyed alien who you kill half a minute after meeting.

That said, the thermal clips thing was still just handled really poorly.  I'm not a fan of random, logic-breaking retcons for the sake of gameplay, because it can become a slippery slope.  Just look at Bethesda's utter rape and destruction of the entire Fallout canon to see what happens when a developer gets lazy and starts trying to justify everything with "but it's cool".  It's quite clear that Mass Effect is starting to head in that direction, considering its entire plot is built entirely on illogical revisions to the canon and railroading.

Modifié par searanox, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:45 .

[Infiltrator678]

was it just me or was the yahg the same creature as the statue from Donovan Hock's vault from stealing memory?

[HomicidialFrog]

I honestly liked it, it was an interesting twist since I was expecting either a Reaper, Liara's father, a group etc.



But it turns out that the Shadow Broker (Well, you know. The 2nd Shadow Broker) is an entirely unknown species.



Bioware might have had this planned to make a superpowered species that's smarter and more manipulative than an Asari/Salarian, Tougher than a Krogan/Elcor and more ruthless than a Human/Turian. (Back-to-Back counterpart species ftw!)



And the Shadow Broker in Shepard's time isn't the original Shadow Broker everyone knows and mostly hates.

[futs22]

Liara is a pure blood right? So if Bioware had decided to make Liara's "father" the Shadow Broker then it would be just another Asari you'd have to take down like Benezia. Hmmmm..... I think I prefer the Yahg, but it would have been better IMO if they revealed who this Yahg's predecessor was.

[Skyblade012]

Question: Would you all have preferred it had the Yahg been mentioned or built up earlier in the lore, even if we had never seen them?

[Infiltrator678]

im pretty sure theres a statue of a yahg in Stealing Memory



but it makes sense why they haven't been built up much they are basically isolated to one planet like the drell and unlike the drell their personality makes it impossible for them to leave said planet

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

searanox wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

Um no, cause that would have been cliche, same with revealing it was Liara's father (another interesting topic here)

There's nothing wrong with cliches and tropes so long as they are executed well.  BioWare spent years setting up the Shadow Broker and they took possibly the dumbest and most baffling route possible.

That is quite the exaggeration.

"They took the possibly dumbest and most baffling route possible"?

How?! Just because they didnt' use a character you already meant before for a character whose identity is suppose to be completely unknown that is somehow BAFFLING for you? Honestly people.

I found the reveal of the Shadow Broker to be pretty cool and far from being an example of horrible writing or nonsensical as other people like to claim it is. Explain to me how could it be implausible that the Shadow Broker was one of the non-Council races? 


Also about the Yahg species being a "combination of humans and krogan" that is also untrue. While yes physically they just are dangerous as the Krogan they lack the Krogan's survivability to extreme environments. It's like complaining that both Asari and Humans have similar physiologies. Why in the entire universe can't there be more than one brutish strength species? Even further the Yash species are significantly different from the Krogan in that they have a pack-hunter nature, biologically needing to have a leader to follow and for others to prove their strength and rank. I found it very interesting as to why they weren't allowed to join the Council races.

As for being just as intelligent as humans? fwah, find me a human who can learn 17 languages. If anything this was a prime example of how the Yash species are perfect when it comes to the role of the Shadow Broker, now perhaps this current Yash was smarter than the average Yash and isn't a prime example of intelligence but he certainly has plenty of talents, particularly his species abilities to read body language of any species and detect any lies. 

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

horned demon with a short fuse as the galaxy's most powerful information dealer... just doesn't fly with me. "Darkspawn" is the first thing that came to mind when it stood.

Because anything that has a horn is a Darkspawn, right.

Ya I was disappointed about it being some new species and some random new character. I was like meh I was hoping for a conspiracy sort of ending. Zomg shadow broker is the bar keep from the ambassadors lounge in ME 1.

I believe we can point to this as an example of lazy and terrible writing.

[Skyblade012]

I like that the Shadow Broker turned out to be a new species. Having every entity of power in the galaxy being one of the same five species was getting a little old. Any of the lesser species would have done, but an entirely new one works as well.



And I personally don't mind the "horned demon" form of the Yahg, because it is nice to see a few more species that aren't just reskinned humans.

[didymos1120]

Infiltrator678 wrote...

was it just me or was the yahg the same creature as the statue from Donovan Hock's vault from stealing memory?

That was just you.  That statue was of an ogre from Dragon Age.  The  only thing they really shared morphologically were some horns, but the yahg horns look more like what you'd see on some species of beetle than the more typical looking ones the ogres have.