212 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

Well, they already do fight amongst themselves, when there is no blight.

True, but awakened Darkspawn seemed to have far more bloodier clashes then normal Darkspawn.

[Dean_the_Young]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What do you mean by that? How would I deal with the rest of his followers? Wage war on them of course and wipe them out.

The formula depends on Grey Warden blood, so I would make certain to remain in contact with him with the pretense of giving him blood.

No, how does killing him after he develops the formula stop anything? Once he makes it, it's almost certainly to be in the hands of another five, ten, a dozen disciples before you even hear about it. It can be recorded, put somewhere safe, and the knowledge spread to all the Disciples he makes or has made. Killing him does nothing.

He doesn't need your blood, just any Grey Warden, and he already has one (or more). The epilogue rather makes clear that he doesn't stay in contact, and that the Wardens as a whole try to find him very, very hard for many years.

[Dean_the_Young]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Well, they already do fight amongst themselves, when there is no blight.

True, but awakened Darkspawn seemed to have far more bloodier clashes then normal Darkspawn.

Only in the feud with Mother. Disciples have influence over unawakened Darkspawn, and without the Mother's disciples they won't be fighting like darkspawn.

[Herr Uhl]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Well, they already do fight amongst themselves, when there is no blight.

True, but awakened Darkspawn seemed to have far more bloodier clashes then normal Darkspawn.

Well, it is the difference between tribal wars and nation-wide wars. But it also gives the risk of having them making organized attacks on the surface. Something that they thankfully lack when there is no blight, and the main reason that blights are as feared as they are.

Edit: Or organized attacks at all.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 20 septembre 2010 - 07:14 .

[Giggles_Manically]

His plan is too shacky for me to believe in.



Oh well:

Some I wake up are very angry about it and go crazy trying to go back, while attacking the rest!

Some dont listen to me and try to kill everything (start of awakening).

Oh my little parasites still sicken the world wherever they go.

Now they are capable of lauching raids and assaults with intelligence, with numbers!

Also we kinda still need broodmothers you see...



Before that idiot is even done I want to kill him.

He is untrustworthy and will do whatever it takes to save his own interests at the expense of others.



NO Sodding way am I siding with a braindead piece of mutated disease.

[Giggles_Manically]

Also letting them fight it out is risky, the winner may just be a very powerful, experienced, and capable foe, not one tired out from fighting. Darkspawn never lack for numbers.

[Dean_the_Young]

In what sense do the Disciples 'need' broodmothers? Apparently word of god is that Darkspawn don't die from age, or even need to eat (which is more recreation than for nutrients). A disciple is a disciple, but what need or compulsion does it have for broodmothers?

[Giggles_Manically]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

In what sense do the Disciples 'need' broodmothers? Apparently word of god is that Darkspawn don't die from age, or even need to eat (which is more recreation than for nutrients). A disciple is a disciple, but what need or compulsion does it have for broodmothers?

That is the only way to replace numbers.
If they are fighting a war like Costin wants, or just due to accidents they will need to replace their numbers.

[Dean_the_Young]

And if they aren't fighting a war, they won't need to. Accidents aren't that frequent.

[Herr Uhl]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

In what sense do the Disciples 'need' broodmothers? Apparently word of god is that Darkspawn don't die from age, or even need to eat (which is more recreation than for nutrients). A disciple is a disciple, but what need or compulsion does it have for broodmothers?

They seemingly don't age. There hasn't been any word on if they can live forever.

[Giggles_Manically]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And if they aren't fighting a war, they won't need to. Accidents aren't that frequent.

So the darkspawn are all going to sit around and think about philosophy and live peacefully for all eternity underground.... 

Even if the architect can awaken darkspawn that dont go insane trying to get back it is unlikely that he is going to stop them from wanting more darkspawn around.

Sadly since broodmothers can still be made, and the architect has proven unable to control all the spawn he wakes up I dont like having a very real possibility of women getting turned into broodmothers.

[SirJarenTor]

I was under the impression (based on his failures in The Calling, and dialogue in Awakening) that his plan to make the whole world into something like Grey Wardens was put on the back burner when his initial plan to simply kill all the Old Gods before they were corrupted failed, and he created the "Reverse Joining" as a replacement for that. The basic idea being that once all the Darkspawn were Awakened, everyone would be able to come to terms with that.

[Costin_Razvan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Also letting them fight it out is risky, the winner may just be a very powerful, experienced, and capable foe, not one tired out from fighting. Darkspawn never lack for numbers.

Perhaps just the thing that might be needed to wake the surface the hell up that Darkspawn are NOT a dwarf problem?

You see, my greatest fear is that once the last Archdemon falls is that all the Darkspawn will rise up to the surface....and turn the surface into what the Anderfels is today, ( a blighted destroyed land ).

[Giggles_Manically]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Also letting them fight it out is risky, the winner may just be a very powerful, experienced, and capable foe, not one tired out from fighting. Darkspawn never lack for numbers.

Perhaps just the thing that might be needed to wake the surface the hell up that Darkspawn are NOT a dwarf problem?

You see, my greatest fear is that once the last Archdemon falls is that all the Darkspawn will rise up to the surface....and turn the surface into what the Anderfels is today, ( a blighted destroyed land ).

People have the ability to ignore things very easily.
They should take all their armies and hunt the spawn out, no matter what the cost after a blight ends.

[Costin_Razvan]

Not going to happen...and if you attempt to form a Coalition for that exact purpose like I do then it will very likely spark a war with the Chantry.

[Dean_the_Young]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And if they aren't fighting a war, they won't need to. Accidents aren't that frequent.

So the darkspawn are all going to sit around and think about philosophy and live peacefully for all eternity underground.... 

Why not? They aren't humans.

Or, more specifically, nothing implies the Awakened darkspawn have any interest in the Surface.

Even if the architect can awaken darkspawn that dont go insane trying to get back it is unlikely that he is going to stop them from wanting more darkspawn around.

Sadly since broodmothers can still be made, and the architect has proven unable to control all the spawn he wakes up I dont like having a very real possibility of women getting turned into broodmothers.

He hasn't been able to control all of them, but a large part of his intent is to figure out how to prevent that madness.

If you kill him, what do you think his remaining disciples will do? Try to do the same? Will they care enough to fight those who would?

If killing the Architect meant there would be no more Disciples, I would do it without reservation. But it doesn't. The disciples still exist. Whether or not they want broodmothers will occur regardless. Whether there will be intelligent darkspawn exists regardless.

Sparing the Architect leaves him to try and perfect the already existing process so that it won't create crazy intelligent Darkspawn, which to date are the ones that have deliberately planned to attack the surface.

Killing him... well, I suppose it grants you a warm fuzzy feeling of retribution. But his disciples remain to carry on his intent, if not his research, and the Awakened Darkspawn threat exists without a leader figure who has shown ambivilance towards the Surface and the dwarves.

[Giggles_Manically]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Not going to happen...and if you attempt to form a Coalition for that exact purpose like I do then it will very likely spark a war with the Chantry.

Why do you view the chantry as some evil force of people who is insane about power and control?

[Giggles_Manically]

@Dean the Young.



I dont care if the Architect promised me peace and good will forever, his plans are crap, he is made of crap, and his followers are diseased pieces of crap.



Darkspawn arent to be trusted, and neither is the architect I think he is lying and will ultimately do much more harm than good.

[Dean_the_Young]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

@Dean the Young.

I dont care if the Architect promised me peace and good will forever, his plans are crap, he is made of crap, and his followers are diseased pieces of crap.

Darkspawn arent to be trusted, and neither is the architect I think he is lying and will ultimately do much more harm than good.

How many times has a Darkspawn lied to you?

[Giggles_Manically]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

@Dean the Young.

I dont care if the Architect promised me peace and good will forever, his plans are crap, he is made of crap, and his followers are diseased pieces of crap.

Darkspawn arent to be trusted, and neither is the architect I think he is lying and will ultimately do much more harm than good.

How many times has a Darkspawn lied to you?

Dosent matter if they lied to me before, I think he is talking out his arse.
I dont care if his plan sounds nice, he has failed badly already, proven to be an inneffective leader (Utha barley listen to him, his followers attack without his consent), he planned to kill almost all life on Thedas to try and make everyone some happy darkspawn family, when there is an option to talk he attacks and experiments on me, and finally when I am up and about THEN he sends some dragons after me.....

Sadly at that point I see him as scum, mutated diseased and talking scum. I dont care how he spins it I dont trust him. Its the same reason I dont do the DR, I dont trust the OGB running around, Morrigan, and most certainly Flemeth since she is around as well. I dont commit to an action on maybes or possibles, or chances of really good, or something terrible.

Thats just me though, I would like to believe he can offer change, but he has proven to be a brutal, yet intelligent Darkspawn. He may talk nice, but he is no better than the rest of the scum he calls friends.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Not going to happen...and if you attempt to form a Coalition for that exact purpose like I do then it will very likely spark a war with the Chantry.

Why do you view the chantry as some evil force of people who is insane about power and control?

Uhm...because it IS? The creation of Circle Towers is enough evidence on that matter to me, as well as how they control their Templars.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:34 .

[Zjarcal]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Not going to happen...and if you attempt to form a Coalition for that exact purpose like I do then it will very likely spark a war with the Chantry.

Why do you view the chantry as some evil force of people who is insane about power and control?

Uhm...because it IS? The creation of Circle Towers is enough evidence on that matter to me, as well as how they control their Templars.

Yeah, I have to agree here. There are good people in the Chantry for sure, but the whole organization is rather iffy.

[Giggles_Manically]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Not going to happen...and if you attempt to form a Coalition for that exact purpose like I do then it will very likely spark a war with the Chantry.

Why do you view the chantry as some evil force of people who is insane about power and control?

I dont really think that waging war is going to make matters better.
The harrowing is harsh yes, but it does keep down abominations. I feel a little sad about how mages get treated but at least they arent getting torn apart by angry mobs (Wynne Convo) or turning into abominations and hurting people.
The templars lyrium addiction while harsh, is no worse than what happens to Grey Wardens really, and both of them serve an important function.

Also the Chantry is not ALL EVIL ALL THE TIME. If they were there would not be people like Ser Bryant or Ser Otto trying to help people because they think its a good action to do, or a poor box that aids widows and children.

Its the same as the Catholic Church, People paint it with the evil brush while missing out on the good it did, like helping plauged people, providing shelter to the poor and sick, and keeping knowledge and learning safe through the dark ages.

Its easy to paint groups with one brush, but in reality no group was all evil in the past.

Uhm...because it IS? The creation of Circle Towers is enough evidence on that matter to me, as well as how they control their Templars.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I side with Dean on this. If the death of the old gods is going to make the darkspawn smart anyways, I'd rather give them time to develop and mature into a people (with the possibility of compeltely preventing oe or two blights) rather than have them become smart all of a sudden in a middle of a war with all the other species wanting them dead when the last old God dies. That's actually quite dangerous.

And about smart darkspawn being dangerous. Sure, they are. But I think a mindless horde that can't show fear, hesitation, can't disobey, can't have indepedent thought and can't be negotiated with, to be more frightening than a people who can show fear, can be bribed, can hesitate and question and can show and develop a sense of what's right and wrong.

About the disease, the Architect can protect Armas, the Qunari merchant. The taint can be contained. Biggest problem is broodmothers however, but as Dean said, freed darkspawn may not be compelled to create them, unless they need numbers (as in if we go to war with them).

All in all however, this choice is mostly irrelevent. If the architect dies, he is replaced by others, namely the Seeker who actually seemingly more cunning that the Architect.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:43 .

[Costin_Razvan]

If the death of the old gods is going to make the darkspawn smart anyways

Where did you find this out?



Giggles: I would keep the Chantry alive as an organization, but I would destroy it's political power and free the Templar from their rule, and make separate from the Chantry.