212 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

TJPags wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

TJPags wrote...

I still say - smart, talking darkspawn who have "plans" are not good - especially when they can't control their own followers. I should let them make more? Don't think so.

Except for his followers who might just figure out what to do.
Than again, since he so lovingly showed up, I will do him the immense favor of killing him.

They might.

But he hasn't - and I see no reason to hang out and keep dealing with his failures on the off chance he might someday get it right.

Exactly, even if he can pull it off,
Darkspawn still spread disease by there very prescence. 

[RavenousBear]

Regardless of being sentient, their survival depends on Broodmothers. The last thing I want is intelligent darkspawn to  alter their raiding habits which would lead to the capture of more innocent women instead of butchering every creature on sight. There is no way I would negotiate with them when they continue this. Either adapt and find a new way to reproduce without violence or die.

Even if that changes, I would probably still not agree to start negotiations since there almost every "awakened" darkspawn encountered is as barbaric as their savage cousins. It is the darkspawn that will have to start changing their habits before I would ever start talking to their leaders.

[Giggles_Manically]

Caak7i wrote...

Regardless of being sentient, their survival depends on Broodmothers. The last thing I want is intelligent darkspawn to  alter their raiding habits which would lead to the capture of more innocent women instead of butchering every creature on sight. There is no way I would negotiate with them when they continue this. Either adapt and find a new way to reproduce without violence or die.

Even if that changes, I would probably still not agree to start negotiations since there almost every "awakened" darkspawn encountered is as barbaric as their savage cousins. It is the darkspawn that will have to start changing their habits before I would ever start talking to their leaders.

I did spare the Messanger though.
Mostly since he just slaughtered the spawn in Amaranthine, and he also did it willingly.
It may not have been the best but I let him go for service rendered.

I dont let the architect go though, he just fails to inspire really.

[RavenousBear]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Regardless of being sentient, their survival depends on Broodmothers. The last thing I want is intelligent darkspawn to  alter their raiding habits which would lead to the capture of more innocent women instead of butchering every creature on sight. There is no way I would negotiate with them when they continue this. Either adapt and find a new way to reproduce without violence or die.

Even if that changes, I would probably still not agree to start negotiations since there almost every "awakened" darkspawn encountered is as barbaric as their savage cousins. It is the darkspawn that will have to start changing their habits before I would ever start talking to their leaders.

I did spare the Messanger though.
Mostly since he just slaughtered the spawn in Amaranthine, and he also did it willingly.
It may not have been the best but I let him go for service rendered.

I dont let the architect go though, he just fails to inspire really.

I did conscript him on my only Awk. playthrough since his actions on the battlefield (he almost died once charging into a swarm of darkspawn) made me feel like "hmm maybe there is some hope for this species". I did not metagame and being a more merciful person, I gave him a chance.

Then I released him and he starts infecting people by playing as a hero. I am not sure if it is an act or he is honest in his intentions of helping people. Not sure if I will do that again however though I do not know when I will start another Awk playthrough.

[Giggles_Manically]

He is running around helping people out though, so maybe he is trying to do something.



That would be funny in DA2 if we heard about some Darkspawn Vigilante in the vein of batman/robin hood though.

[RavenousBear]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

He is running around helping people out though, so maybe he is trying to do something.

That would be funny in DA2 if we heard about some Darkspawn Vigilante in the vein of batman/robin hood though.

I hope so, though with my pessimistic views towards darkspawn, I would not be shocked if he was an charlatan doing it to rebuild their numbers.

Despite that, I would love to hear rumors about the Viligante in DA2 saving people just for fun. Maybe I will continue to spare him on my good characters.

[Giggles_Manically]

Caak7i wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

He is running around helping people out though, so maybe he is trying to do something.

That would be funny in DA2 if we heard about some Darkspawn Vigilante in the vein of batman/robin hood though.

I hope so, though with my pessimistic views towards darkspawn, I would not be shocked if he was an charlatan doing it to rebuild their numbers.

Despite that, I would love to hear rumors about the Viligante in DA2 saving people just for fun. Maybe I will continue to spare him on my good characters.

I dont think he has nefarious goals himself in mind.

I think mostly he just wants to live now, sadly he will be alone for the most part, with what he is.
It would be awesome in DA2 to hear from some refugees how some cloaked and lisping fellow killed some darkspawn and got them to the coast though.

[Obadiah]

Letting the Architect live is a compromise to achieve some kind of peace from the darkspawn. The proper solution of course would have to be to kill them all since they still need people to reproduce. I'm not sure how long they can survive without that. The don't eat but do they age?

[RavenousBear]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

He is running around helping people out though, so maybe he is trying to do something.

That would be funny in DA2 if we heard about some Darkspawn Vigilante in the vein of batman/robin hood though.

I hope so, though with my pessimistic views towards darkspawn, I would not be shocked if he was an charlatan doing it to rebuild their numbers.

Despite that, I would love to hear rumors about the Viligante in DA2 saving people just for fun. Maybe I will continue to spare him on my good characters.

I dont think he has nefarious goals himself in mind.

I think mostly he just wants to live now, sadly he will be alone for the most part, with what he is.
It would be awesome in DA2 to hear from some refugees how some cloaked and lisping fellow killed some darkspawn and got them to the coast though.

He seems like a decent fellow compared to many humans, dwarves, and elves. Still would be safer if the Warden could plant a tracking device on the back of his head.

Anyways, unlike the messenger, I have not spared the Architect yet and even my one psychopath warden would think twice about helping him. His experiments, his lack of control over his "awakened" followers, his capture of the Warden and his party, and his lack of morality and common sense have led to his beatdown before destroying the Mother. His journals in his labs do him no justice either.

[Reika]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

He is running around helping people out though, so maybe he is trying to do something.

That would be funny in DA2 if we heard about some Darkspawn Vigilante in the vein of batman/robin hood though.

I love that idea, it could totally work.

And I did spare the Messenger's life because he did seem genuine. The one thought I had, which is probably pretty silly, is that he was Awakened with the Warden-Commander's blood and that maybe it had an effect on him. The reason why I say that is that there's so many different beings that imply that there is some sort of power in the Warden.

Also the epilogue for the messenger said there were occasional outbreaks of the disease, which seems to me that he isn't intentionally infecting people.

[Giggles_Manically]

True enough.

Wish his plans could work, but they seem doomed to failure.



I dont care what people say, I wont sit by and let Darkspawn live, all the Architect is, is a TALKING darkspawn. While he may show intelligence they are nothing more than a parasite that deserves obliteration.

[NICKjnp]

I feel bad for him... but I also feel bad for everyone who is corrupted by the taint and eventually becomes a thrawl and eventually killed by a Grey Warden. As good intentioned as they are... they are still tainted and they still destroy those who are not (whether by direct killing them or making them sick).

[Reika]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

True enough.
Wish his plans could work, but they seem doomed to failure.

I dont care what people say, I wont sit by and let Darkspawn live, all the Architect is, is a TALKING darkspawn. While he may show intelligence they are nothing more than a parasite that deserves obliteration.

Had the Architecht truly shown he was trying to learn how the other races live and interact, I might've given him a chance to give me his spiel. But after getting captured, experimented upon, in addition to everything else.

No, he couldn't be allowed to continue.

[TJPags]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

He is running around helping people out though, so maybe he is trying to do something.

That would be funny in DA2 if we heard about some Darkspawn Vigilante in the vein of batman/robin hood though.

This would be pretty damn hysterical, if they did that.  Would be interesting to see Hawke run into the batman darkspawn, too,

[RavenousBear]

Another potential problem I have with the Architect. In his speech before confronting the Mother, he said he only wished to awaken his comrades and let them be. Well, if he is sincere about his plans about peace between darkspawn and the other species, would he even attempt to reign in any violent groups who seek revenge to the surfacers? If not, then he clearly lacks responsibility for his own actions and while his intentions may well be good,
actions speak louder than words.

[TJPags]

Caak7i wrote...

Another potential problem I have with the Architect. In his speech before confronting the Mother, he said he only wished to awaken his comrades and let them be. Well, if he is sincere about his plans about peace between darkspawn and the other species, would he even attempt to reign in any violent groups who seek revenge to the surfacers? If not, then he clearly lacks responsibility for his own actions and while his intentions may well be good,
actions speak louder than words.

Also, if he really just wants to free them from the AD and let them make their own decisions, why is he so intent on detroying the Mother, who, after being freed, wants to regain the 'song' and wants to destroy non-darkspawn while doing so?

[SOLID_EVEREST]

TJPags wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Another potential problem I have with the Architect. In his speech before confronting the Mother, he said he only wished to awaken his comrades and let them be. Well, if he is sincere about his plans about peace between darkspawn and the other species, would he even attempt to reign in any violent groups who seek revenge to the surfacers? If not, then he clearly lacks responsibility for his own actions and while his intentions may well be good,
actions speak louder than words.

Also, if he really just wants to free them from the AD and let them make their own decisions, why is he so intent on detroying the Mother, who, after being freed, wants to regain the 'song' and wants to destroy non-darkspawn while doing so?

I never understood what the "song" "the Mother" spoke of was, so I assumed it had something to do with lyrium like the ring you give Justice. Anyways, I let "the Messenger" live because I gave him my word that if he helped me I would show him mercy. Although I let him live, I didn't agree at all with my Warden companions or the Architect his theory is just too dangerous.

[wickedgoodreed]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Another potential problem I have with the Architect. In his speech before confronting the Mother, he said he only wished to awaken his comrades and let them be. Well, if he is sincere about his plans about peace between darkspawn and the other species, would he even attempt to reign in any violent groups who seek revenge to the surfacers? If not, then he clearly lacks responsibility for his own actions and while his intentions may well be good,
actions speak louder than words.

Also, if he really just wants to free them from the AD and let them make their own decisions, why is he so intent on detroying the Mother, who, after being freed, wants to regain the 'song' and wants to destroy non-darkspawn while doing so?

I never understood what the "song" "the Mother" spoke of was, so I assumed it had something to do with lyrium like the ring you give Justice. Anyways, I let "the Messenger" live because I gave him my word that if he helped me I would show him mercy. Although I let him live, I didn't agree at all with my Warden companions or the Architect his theory is just too dangerous.

The "song" the Mother is talking about is the call of the Old Gods that leads darkspawn to them.  That's an interesting observation now that you mention it. The way that Justice describes lyrium's song is indeed similar to how the Mother talks about the song of the Old Gods. Considering that the original darkspawn were once Tevinter magisters lured by the Old Gods and their offers to teach them powerful magic, that makes sense.

[Dougal Meatshanks]

The old gods sing to the darkspawn. They are controlled by it, like blood magic. That's why they dig continuously, trying to find the song in their head. They can't not do it.

The mother was like any other political disident. Should be let Loghain live because of what he did to the country?

People keep applying double standards. If a political dissident that was causing internal and external strife emerged in your kingdom, you put them down. Thus the mother was put down. Whether it was right or not is irrelevant - the point is that it's what any other kingdom would do. People only look at it differently due to the bias against darkspawn.

EDIT:

wickedgoodreed wrote...

The "song" the Mother is talking
about is the call of the Old Gods that leads darkspawn to them.  That's
an interesting observation now that you mention it. The way that Justice
describes lyrium's song is indeed similar to how the Mother talks about
the song of the Old Gods. Considering that the original darkspawn were
once Tevinter magisters lured by the Old Gods and their offers to teach
them powerful magic, that makes sense.

IF that's actually true.  The game does not state that the Chantry is infallable. That what they say is objective truth. That is a legend taught by the Chantry to further the murder of darkspawn using religion as a justification. they are 'sinning' humans that caused the Maker to turn away. They should be killed.

Just because it's the only explanation given doesn't make it the right one.

We also have evidence of Chantry bull in the form of the lyrium addiction they force on the templars. it doesn't seem to do anything except keep them on a leash.

Hellebore

Modifié par Dougal Meatshanks, 26 septembre 2010 - 03:40 .

[TJPags]

But if the Architect wants to let all enlightened Darkspawn think for themselves, them the Mother wanting the song back is as valid as others want to live in peace with humans. She's not a dissident, not to him - he has no agenda except to let them think for themselves, or so he says.



So why is he so hot to kill her? Ahhh, because he DOES have an agenda.

[Obadiah]

wickedgoodreed wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Another potential problem I have with the Architect. In his speech before confronting the Mother, he said he only wished to awaken his comrades and let them be. Well, if he is sincere about his plans about peace between darkspawn and the other species, would he even attempt to reign in any violent groups who seek revenge to the surfacers? If not, then he clearly lacks responsibility for his own actions and while his intentions may well be good,
actions speak louder than words.

Also, if he really just wants to free them from the AD and let them make their own decisions, why is he so intent on detroying the Mother, who, after being freed, wants to regain the 'song' and wants to destroy non-darkspawn while doing so?

I never understood what the "song" "the Mother" spoke of was, so I assumed it had something to do with lyrium like the ring you give Justice. Anyways, I let "the Messenger" live because I gave him my word that if he helped me I would show him mercy. Although I let him live, I didn't agree at all with my Warden companions or the Architect his theory is just too dangerous.

The "song" the Mother is talking about is the call of the Old Gods that leads darkspawn to them.  That's an interesting observation now that you mention it. The way that Justice describes lyrium's song is indeed similar to how the Mother talks about the song of the Old Gods. Considering that the original darkspawn were once Tevinter magisters lured by the Old Gods and their offers to teach them powerful magic, that makes sense.

That is an interesting observation. Could be spirits hear a song in lyrium the way mortals hear a song in the taint. *BOOK SPOILER* Marics blade is supposed to make the taint part, maybe it is because it had lyrium runes in it?

[Bahlgan]

Architect goes DOWN in my book!

[Dougal Meatshanks]

TJPags wrote...

But if the Architect wants to let all enlightened Darkspawn think for themselves, them the Mother wanting the song back is as valid as others want to live in peace with humans. She's not a dissident, not to him - he has no agenda except to let them think for themselves, or so he says.

So why is he so hot to kill her? Ahhh, because he DOES have an agenda.

She's preaching a different social code, one where they go back to not thinking for themselves. I didn't say that he was 'right' to kill her, only that what he's doing is NO DIFFERENT to what NON darkspawn societies do, fight/kill those they do not see as for the 'good' of their people.

It's no different to you deciding to kill Loghain because he had a different view of where Fereldan should be.

Dougal

Modifié par Dougal Meatshanks, 26 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[TJPags]

Dougal Meatshanks wrote...

TJPags wrote...

But if the Architect wants to let all enlightened Darkspawn think for themselves, them the Mother wanting the song back is as valid as others want to live in peace with humans. She's not a dissident, not to him - he has no agenda except to let them think for themselves, or so he says.

So why is he so hot to kill her? Ahhh, because he DOES have an agenda.

She's preaching a different social code, one where they go back to not thinking for themselves. I didn't say that he was 'right' to kill her, only that what he's doing is NO DIFFERENT to what NON darkspawn societies do, fight/kill those they do not see as for the 'good' of their people.

It's no different to you deciding to kill Loghain because he had a different view of where Fereldan should be.

Dougal

Yes, that IS what he's doing.

But it's not consistent with what he tells us he's doing, which is to simply give his people the chance to think for themselves.  If all I want is for someone to think for themself, if they choose to think something different than what I would prefer them to, it should be no problem . . . unless I have some stake in what they DO think.

So the Architect isn't being honest, or not completely honest - again.
Oh, and that's not why I kill Loghain.