531 réponses à ce sujet

[UberDuber]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The Warden's story isn't your story. It's Bioware's story, you just pick which parts of it you want told.

The warden is my character.
Hawke is Bioware's he is voiced, and probably has his own attitude. Own race.

[Herr Uhl]

UberDuber wrote...

Here is the fact.
The warden is MY story
Hawke is Bioware's.

Good thing you're 16, they'd eat alive you at a college if you claimed that as being fact.

[UberDuber]

SirShreK wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

All adults....are on the devs side. When really it's people like me that buy the games (I'm 16.) wether you want to face the facts or not. More under 18s buy the game than over 18s.

I fell in love with DA because I thought I would continue my warden's story in a sequel. You get attacted to your wardens and companions. For this company just to say that the warden vanished off the face of the earth, and expect us to jump into a new character and story. It's annoying. I thought Bioware were suppose to be masters at character continuation, and for me this DA2 is a huge disapointment.

Here is the fact.
The warden is MY story
Hawke is Bioware's.

Here's a fact for you, the game is rated M, it's supposed to be for ages 18+ only.

Incase you have not noticed, maybe you should play an 18+ game online and see how many are actually over 18.

That does NOT make it legal... Should I report you or not?

 LMAO, report me tough guy. I hope it makes you happy.

[upsettingshorts]

Just to clear it up, a 16 year old buying a 18+ game isn't illegal, and if anyone would get in trouble over it - it would be the retailer. Like movie ratings - except pornograpy, game ratings exist so that the industry can police itself. When retailers - and movie theaters - violate their own industry's rules, they invite government intervention, something that would actually make ownership of age-inappropriate material a crime.

As of right now, it's simply a violation of an agreement between parties like the publisher, the retailers, and the ESRB. The consumer's actions are more or less irrelevant.

So, can we get back on topic please?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[Leonia]

This is not the post you are looking for.

Modifié par leonia42, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:05 .

[SirShreK]

UberDuber wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

All adults....are on the devs side. When really it's people like me that buy the games (I'm 16.) wether you want to face the facts or not. More under 18s buy the game than over 18s.

I fell in love with DA because I thought I would continue my warden's story in a sequel. You get attacted to your wardens and companions. For this company just to say that the warden vanished off the face of the earth, and expect us to jump into a new character and story. It's annoying. I thought Bioware were suppose to be masters at character continuation, and for me this DA2 is a huge disapointment.

Here is the fact.
The warden is MY story
Hawke is Bioware's.

Here's a fact for you, the game is rated M, it's supposed to be for ages 18+ only.

Incase you have not noticed, maybe you should play an 18+ game online and see how many are actually over 18.

That does NOT make it legal... Should I report you or not?

 LMAO, report me tough guy. I hope it makes you happy.

And I got called a tough guy for my tinsy-winsy jokey.....!

[upsettingshorts]

UberDuber wrote...
The warden is my character.
Hawke is Bioware's he is voiced, and probably has his own attitude. Own race.

You wrote all the dialogue options for your Warden?
You designed each and every combination of race, class, and starting area?

If you read a choose-your-adventure book, who owns the characters within it, the author or you for picking which page numbers to skip to?

[John Epler]

Blasto the jelly wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

The thing is, regardless of what 'character' we put into DA:O - people would've gotten attached. There would have been people who assumed that the series (and franchise) was going to revolve around that character.

Do I think there's necessarily anything wrong with being attached to your Warden? No, not at all! That's your character, after all - and you're naturally going to want more adventures with them. I always find there's something bittersweet when you finish anything where you develop a strong attachment to the main character (or characters). I've certainly felt it before.

But in the end, Dragon Age is about Thedas, not any one character (or any one faction, for that matter). And I agree that this will likely feel more evident once more than one game comes out in the setting.

Mister JohnEpler u said Dragon Age is about Thedas not any character. i created a thread why is romance important in Dragon age 2 if it dos'nt effect Thedas and i was called a REDART so could u explain on my forum

How do you develop a character? Well, at first, you start off by telling. 'He's really big' or 'he's got one eye and walks with a kind of limp.' Then, as you progress through the process, you begin to show. I can say 'he's really brave!' but a far more effective method of developing the character would be to show him doing something brave. Then you add flavour - he's really brave most of the time, but when it comes to cheese he's terrified. 

With a 'character' the size of Thedas, the second part is a little more complicated. You can't really have the entire setting 'doing' things in the most literal sense - saying 'there was a minor seismic event!' is about as far as that gets. So what do you do? Well, you define the 'character' by the events that occur within. This can be as big as world-changing, or as small as interpersonal. You create flavour and nuance by showing how the various people who inhabit the world interact with each other. The much bigger traits - well, that would be something like the Blight in DA:O.

So the long answer, really, would be that romances add nuance and flavour to the setting. Sure, they may not matter on a macro scale, but on a micro scale - well, I'd say they matter quite a lot.

I'm not a writer, though - David may be able to explain better than I can. But that would be my take on it.

[SirShreK]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Just to clear it up, a 16 year old buying a 18+ game isn't illegal, and if anyone would get in trouble over it - it would be the retailer. Like movie ratings - except pornograpy, game ratings exist so that the industry can police itself. When retailers - and movie theaters - violate their own industry's rules, they invite government intervention, something that would actually make ownership of age-inappropriate material a crime.

As of right now, it's simply a violation of an agreement between parties like the publisher, the retailers, and the ESRB. The consumer's actions are more or less irrelevant.

So, can we get back on topic please?

Sorry Dear, you are just borderline right. The enforcement is involuntary for AO games and not for M....

[upsettingshorts]

Ah yes, I forgot about AO and should have put M instead of 18+.  In this specific case, a 16 year old buying and possessing DA:O, the general point is correct though.

An AO rating, like an NC-17 rating is more or less mainstream commercial death.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:13 .

[Emyer]

0rz0 wrote...

I've never been on any Final Fantasy forums, but people get fanatically attached to some characters in the series, that I know. Is there such upheaval there when a new game comes out and it doesn't have the same characters? Not just that, it's got an entire new world even.

That is the premise of the Final Fantasy games, each game is a new tale, a new world and each game is a self contained story with a beginning and an end, they don't end with vague open-ended epilogues, they kill the badguy, have their happy ending and that's it, on to the next story/world.


With DA its a different story, the game is set in the same place, in the same time-frame and with recurring characters, so it is normal that one would expect that DAO's characters would have a greater role or a greater focus in the sequels.

Still, I understand the issue the writers would have with the Warden, he can be of a variety of sex/race/origin combinations, he doesn't have a set personality or background, then there is the fact that for some the Warden's tale ended when he killed Archie at the cost of his/her life and for others the Warden lived on went on to have more adventures and then followed Morrigan to help her and his child prepare for what is to come, the ammount of variables is crazy so I don't expect the Warden's tale to come to conclusion until the last game of Dragon Age(If at all), similar to how in ME3 they will be able to handle all the variables from ME1/2 since they can put a finality to those variables... instead of creating even more.

[UberDuber]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

UberDuber wrote...
The warden is my character.
Hawke is Bioware's he is voiced, and probably has his own attitude. Own race.

You wrote all the dialogue options for your Warden?
You designed each and every combination of race, class, and starting area?

If you read a choose-your-adventure book, who owns the characters within it, the author or you for picking which page numbers to skip to?

Ahh.....Look. Your missing the point. I made the warden my character, and got attacted to him and the other followers. Yes Bioware made that story up, but we got more choice as the warden, than what we are getting with Hawke. Hawke is voiced, so really he is not my character.

All I'm saying is that I don't care about their world. I just want to play as my character. For me... and I know many others....the warden's story was not done.

I don't want to keep switching places and characters everytime they decide to make an easy sequel.

[Leonia]

UberDuber wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

UberDuber wrote...
The warden is my character.
Hawke is Bioware's he is voiced, and probably has his own attitude. Own race.

You wrote all the dialogue options for your Warden?
You designed each and every combination of race, class, and starting area?

If you read a choose-your-adventure book, who owns the characters within it, the author or you for picking which page numbers to skip to?

Ahh.....Look. Your missing the point. I made the warden my character, and got attacted to him and the other followers. Yes Bioware made that story up, but we got more choice as the warden, than what we are getting with Hawke. Hawke is voiced, so really he is not my character.

All I'm saying is that I don't care about their world. I just want to play as my character. For me... and I know many others....the warden's story was not done.

I don't want to keep switching places and characters everytime they decide to make an easy sequel.

Did you completely ignore my post about how the story of DA:O is about the Blight, not YOUR Warden? After the Origin portion of the game, the game experience is more or less the same (except for what major choices you make for your army against the Blight). If you are so attached to your character.. write some fanfiction!

Also, to borrow a line from Gaider, "Tough".

Modifié par leonia42, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:20 .

[upsettingshorts]

UberDuber wrote...

Ahh.....Look. Your missing the point. I made the warden my character, and got attacted to him and the other followers. Yes Bioware made that story up, but we got more choice as the warden, than what we are getting with Hawke.

I get it, but I'll take your point as fair.

Hawke is voiced, so really he is not my character.

But by your same logic, my Shepard is my own, and the combination of choices I've made in ME1-2 has led to attachment.  I wouldn't want to play anyone else's Shepard, or even the default Sheploo.  Just because he or she is voiced and is always human doesn't mean player intervention can't make him unique or likeable.

All I'm saying is that I don't care about their world. I just want to play as my character. For me... and I know many others....the warden's story was not done.

Another fair point, but it's a subjective one.  My subjective opinion is that I'm far more interested in experiencing Thedas through a new character than I am in playing my Warden again.  Blight's over, man.

I don't want to keep switching places and characters everytime they decide to make an easy sequel.

Your only real unfair point.  Why do you assume this sequel is any easier than continuing the tale of the Warden?  It strikes me as a purely creative decision based on their priorities of telling the story of Thedas from multiple perspectives.  It doesn't mesh with what everyone wants, but its the story they want to tell.  Save the easy sequel stuff for, I dunno, the Madden franchise?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:20 .

[UberDuber]

leonia42 wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

UberDuber wrote...
The warden is my character.
Hawke is Bioware's he is voiced, and probably has his own attitude. Own race.

You wrote all the dialogue options for your Warden?
You designed each and every combination of race, class, and starting area?

If you read a choose-your-adventure book, who owns the characters within it, the author or you for picking which page numbers to skip to?

Ahh.....Look. Your missing the point. I made the warden my character, and got attacted to him and the other followers. Yes Bioware made that story up, but we got more choice as the warden, than what we are getting with Hawke. Hawke is voiced, so really he is not my character.

All I'm saying is that I don't care about their world. I just want to play as my character. For me... and I know many others....the warden's story was not done.

I don't want to keep switching places and characters everytime they decide to make an easy sequel.

Did you complete ignore my post about how the story is about the Blight, not YOUR Warden? After the Origin portion of the game, the game experience is more or less the same (except for what major choices you make for your army against the Blight). If you are so attached to your character.. write some fanfiction!

Wtf is fanfiction?

[David Gaider]

UberDuber wrote...
I don't want to keep switching places and characters everytime they decide to make an easy sequel.

It is never "easy" to move on.

You think it's a simple matter for me or the other writers to move on to new characters? Like you, we've grown attached to the ones we spent so many years with. But being attached to something and being unwilling to move onto something new are two different things. In the end one shouldn't preclude the other, and while we were reluctant to part ways with those characters, it can indeed be a lot of fun to meet the new ones and work on them.

Do I begrudge those who still feel so attached to their Warden or the old characters that they're not ready to move on? Not really, no. Like I said before, it's a compliment to what we created. When someone starts using that to the point of becoming demanding as to what they think Dragon Age must be, however, that's when I draw the line.

Do you particularly care where I draw the line? Probably not. But it's there nevertheless, and if you're at all interested in convincing the creative people to listen to your arguments you should be aware where it lies. If you're just here to sound off and state what you will or won't buy, then that's your own business. I'm sure many people won't buy DA2 just as many people will, and possibly some who didn't buy DAO for whatever reasons. We're beholden to no-one in particular, though I'll admit to being interested in what those who liked DAO have to say. That's why we're here, after all, even if sometimes it all becomes so much noise you just can't take it anymore (cue head exploding).

Am I going to get drawn into a long discussion regarding the nature of building a story, the purpose of leaving some threads dangling while tying up others, the role of a protaganist versus the role of a setting and other things? Not today-- it's pretty clear that some people just don't get it and at this point and what's more don't want to get it. If someone wishes to set forth their two cents, by all means do so, but I'm not going to get drawn into a defensive argument any more than I already have. I've snapped off enough heads this week, I think.

Modifié par David Gaider, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:25 .

[DarthCaine]

I don't get how people get so attached to characters. It's just a video game, for Christ's sake

[Thatdude88]

Ive seen so many T.V shows cliff hanger at the end of a season just to lose funding and never get to finish there story I hope Bioware doesn't end up doing that. its better to not leave cliff hangers at the end of games for this reason as you never know if you'll get to make another.

[Antaress]

DarthCaine wrote...

I don't get how people get so attached to characters. It's just a video game, for Christ's sake

for you yes for others it is more 

[Nozybidaj]

DarthCaine wrote...

I don't get how people get so attached to characters.

/shrug  How can you not?  I find games with very little in the way of characterization to be boring.  I lost my ability to play games for nothing other than the sake of killing more and more stuff about the same time I started shaving.  Can it be fun to play a mindless beat-em-up once in a while?  Sure, but if I don't have any sort of interest or attachment to the game and its characters, it isn't something I am going to lay down money for.

[DarthCaine]

Antaress wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

I don't get how people get so attached to characters. It's just a video game, for Christ's sake

for you yes for others it is more 

...

Ah screw it, I suppose I shouldn't comment on this

[UberDuber]

*Sigh* I need a new game... I really thought DA:O would continue into DA2.

I remember when I would be hyped up for DA2 before it was even annouced. Then it got annouced, and I found out I had to play as Hawke..........I was like.......>



Guess all those add ons I bought for Origins mean nothing now...