531 réponses à ce sujet

[Aldaris951]

Guys do not worry, our warden went with morrigan through the mirror, since they confirmed that morrigan will be back, then so will our warden, if not then they will of cannonized their game because my warden went with morrigAn through the mirror. If morrigan is in a future game but the warden isn't I'm sure there will be an uproar.

[sporky1]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

sporky1 wrote...

Morrigans God son wrote...

Well.......I want the warden back. Please for the love of god, don't maul me.

I don't. She's likely to die soon anyway. Occasional appearances? Sure, but she's retired.

How is the warden likely to die soon? I believe that he/she has 30 years to live? My warden certainly is not retired. I can't see my warden sitting in the mirror world with Morrigan rocking on a wooden chair.
 

Well I was referring more to my Warden specifically. She has Ferelden to rule. I don't imagine her settling down, but as she is one of the only Warden's in Ferelden left, I see her more or less taking an advisory role. She isn't likely to continue fighting is what I mean, and games when your characters role is that of a politician does not contain much fighting material.

[jeckaldied]

Aldaris951 wrote...

Guys do not worry, our warden went with morrigan through the mirror, since they confirmed that morrigan will be back, then so will our warden, if not then they will of cannonized their game because my warden went with morrigAn through the mirror. If morrigan is in a future game but the warden isn't I'm sure there will be an uproar.

They merely said Morrigan's story wasn't done before annoucing witch hunt, which for all we know is what they meant by that. We have no clue if she will show up later or not

[Emyer]

Akka le Vil wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We could take the Warden onto a brand new adventure, sure. It'd have to be brand new, however, as the previous adventure is already done. And we'd have to come up with some way to "reset" the power level of the character again, which could involve all sorts of unpleasantness I'm sure you don't want to think about.

You'd also have to explain why and how the Warden is still alive for the people who did the ultimate sacrifice.
Or else just makes canon the ritual/Alistair/Loghain, and remove the significance of the choice made is DAO, which is something you already said (in another thread) that you will not do.
Or else making it so that we can either play the Warden or someone else in place of the Warden, and then continuity becomes a b*tch and forces either a stupendous amount of work just to get it right, or to be made very badly - and at that point, you have to wonder why you should bother to make it a sequel with the Warden if the continuity isn't being really done.

Orlesian Warden



I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel with the Warden as main again, I acknowledge the logistics are ridiculous for the decisions, but still, it's something I would like to see, I'm not gonna rage and demand it though.

People asking constantly for the return of the Warden seems to be
oblivious to the fact that THEIR choices are not the ONLY choices.

That goes both ways like... something that goes both ways, I dunno, some people have already put their Wardens to rest and in doing so they have their finality, others have their Wardens with Morrigan and OGB preparing for whatever is to come or hunting down Flemeth with the information from the books Morrigan left behind, isn't it fair that we get some finality as well ?

Modifié par Emyer, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:07 .

[OriginsIsBest]

Aldaris951 wrote...

Guys do not worry, our warden went with morrigan through the mirror, since they confirmed that morrigan will be back, then so will our warden, if not then they will of cannonized their game because my warden went with morrigAn through the mirror. If morrigan is in a future game but the warden isn't I'm sure there will be an uproar.

My warden went into the mirror world with Morrigan too. Morrigan will return at some stage, and if my warden is not with her, I want one hell of an excuse.

Morrigan: "Oh he is babysitting" would kind of work....though I can't imagine her saying that.

Modifié par OriginsIsBest, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[namedforthemoon]

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

[OriginsIsBest]

namedforthemoon wrote...

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

Well then maybe Bioware should include it in DA3.

[Everwarden]

David Gaider wrote...

Puts me in mind of a blog entry that Neil Gaiman wrote, actually.

No, David Gaider. No. 

For some context, the Neil Gaiman (failure of an) article was
written as a direct reply to the people at Finish The Book, George. That link to what Neil Gaiman's article has NOTHING to do with this situation. Nothing. At all. It's apples and oranges here. There is a long, long league of difference between Bioware choosing a different path creatively and George R. R. Martin's blatant disregard for his fans. The problem people at Finish The Book, George (I'm in that camp) have against him is not his creative judgments, but his lack of effort to finish the story.

George R.R. Martin flaunts the fact that he's going on vacation every other week, and when he's at home he spends hours blogging (generally advertising new, second rate Ice and Fire swag) and watching football. That is his right, but his fans also have a right to express anger. GRRM won't hear even slight criticism, so the angry fans were forced to move their rants to FTBG.

And that is what Neil Gaiman is complaining about, he's waving a stern finger at GRRM fans who have the audacity to whine about a book they like being ten years overdue.

You have put me in the awkward position of defending Bioware to.. Bioware. Bioware is nothing, -nothing- like George R.R. Martin. Unlike GRRM, BW is still making new content at a respectable pace. The forums aren't run by truncheon wielding moderation robots who ban anyone who dares to disagree. Unless you're giving us an insider tip that Bioware is about to go on a ten year game making hiatus to go on a big cruise, there is no comparison here.

[Pzykozis]

namedforthemoon wrote...

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

I didn't think the child was on the other side of the mirror... she said he was somewhere safe and she would not tell you where he is.

I don't suppose she goes to all the trouble to hide it and then just goes oh well, I supposed we can merrily skip down the road together and see your son, despite the fact that I just left you earlier because I wanted to keep your son away from you.

But maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong.

[LucianTansey]

namedforthemoon wrote...

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

Ooh I kinda like that Idea, but who's to say the child wouldnt  view the warden as a threat to his mother and go all god-like on his a**!?

[OriginsIsBest]

Pzykozis wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

I didn't think the child was on the other side of the mirror... she said he was somewhere safe and she would not tell you where he is.

I don't suppose she goes to all the trouble to hide it and then just goes oh well, I supposed we can merrily skip down the road together and see your son, despite the fact that I just left you earlier because I wanted to keep your son away from you.

But maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong.

Actually, I think the child was on the other side of the mirror.
"I want to see my son."
"Then come, my love...we will face the future together."

*AWWWWWWWWWWWH!!!!* *SNIFFLE*

[Stompi]

I actually like the Witch Hunt ending. The DLC was, partly because of bugs, a bit disappointing.
But according to recent Bioware forum posts, Hawke will probably become the most important person in Thedas and Morrigan was called just as important as Hawke and Flemeth. So I'm glad the DLC didn't tell us more about the story. I like being being teased. What I don't like is when a short DLC tells me what is going to happen in the next games. That might have been great for the DLC, but would have made the series much less exciting.

Modifié par Stompi, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:32 .

[Pzykozis]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

Actually, I think the child was on the other side of the mirror.
"I want to see my son."
"Then come, my love...we will face the future together."

*AWWWWWWWWWWWH!!!!* *SNIFFLE*

Fair, enough different dialogue choices, she never said that to me, then again I wasn't interested in the kid, just the woman. The kid was a device for survival no more.

[OriginsIsBest]

LucianTansey wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

Ooh I kinda like that Idea, but who's to say the child wouldnt  view the warden as a threat to his mother and go all god-like on his a**!?

That's good closure!
Then Morrigan would be free to show up in the future without the warden. But we need proof that it did happen.

[Theagg]

OriginsIsBest wrote...


Actually, I think the child was on the other side of the mirror.
"I want to see my son."
"Then come, my love...we will face the future together."

*AWWWWWWWWWWWH!!!!* *SNIFFLE*

Hmm, its doubtful the child was on the other side of the mirror, in whatever dimension that is. Not least because Morrigan had just found this mirror, having gone to great lengths to find it, and its a one use device if I recall her words.

So no, unless she has used other mirrors prior to this, then the child is still somewhere in Thedas.

[Antaress]

Aldaris951 wrote...

Guys do not worry, our warden went with morrigan through the mirror, since they confirmed that morrigan will be back, then so will our warden, if not then they will of cannonized their game because my warden went with morrigAn through the mirror. If morrigan is in a future game but the warden isn't I'm sure there will be an uproar.

We already have uproar 

[OriginsIsBest]

Theagg wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...


Actually, I think the child was on the other side of the mirror.
"I want to see my son."
"Then come, my love...we will face the future together."

*AWWWWWWWWWWWH!!!!* *SNIFFLE*

Hmm, its doubtful the child was on the other side of the mirror, in whatever dimension that is. Not least because Morrigan had just found this mirror, having gone to great lengths to find it, and its a one use device if I recall her words.

So no, unless she has used other mirrors prior to this, then the child is still somewhere in Thedas.

I understand where you are coming from, but if the child is somewhere in Thedas, and Morrigan is going into this mirror, to god knows where. Which can only be used once more. Then would she not be abandoning the child?

So, I think that the child is in the mirror or another world as Morrigan calls it. The only place to keep it safe from Flemeth, and prepare it for it's destiny in safety.
Since Dragon age, is not about certain characters. it's about the world... I guess we will never get answers to these questions.

Modifié par OriginsIsBest, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:49 .

[Dave of Canada]

I'm bored so I'm writing this just to throw it out there, no specific target and it's probably been 3-4 pages since I first started.

In the "What we know" section, I'm talking about knowing as in player / Warden knowledge, an outsider's view who should take up history or something should be able to find out more about the Thedas history bit underneath.

What we know:
The Warden was taken from [her/her] home of [Highever/Circle of Magi/Orzammar/their clan/Denerim]. After [betrayal/helping a friend/searching around/fighting] they are [recruited/saved/conscripted] by Duncan. Duncan takes them to Ostagar where the Warden meets up with Morrigan and Alistair. Ostagar ends in disaster and the Grey Wardens are framed for the defeat. The Warden and Alistair, saved by Flemeth, are sent out to rally Ferelden against the Blight while Loghain starts a civil war.

How it impacts Thedas history:
Arl Howe wipes out the Cousland line.
Ostagar was a major loss for Ferelden.
King Cailan was killed.
The Blight continues.
Loghain starts a civil war.

What we know:
The Warden with the assistance of Morrigan, Alistair [Possibly: Sten, Leliana, Dog.] decide to head off to Recliffe to seeking the aid of Arl Eamon. Upon arrival, Alistair admits that he's the bastard child of King Maric and he felt he needed to say it to you. You continue foward with this new information and find out that Redcliffe is under attack, the Warden decides to [save/abandon] Redcliffe. Afterwards, Teagan meets up with Isolde and head on up to the castle, Teagan gives you a key and allows you to sneak up into the castle while he distracts the "thing".

You arrive to find Jowan, you [free him, kill him, let him run away] before continuing foward through the undead at the castle. Upon arriving in the main chamber, you find out that Connor is possesed by a demon and has done all this. You're given the options of [killing him/going into the fade to free him/using Jowan's blood magic to go into the fade to free him]. After dealing with Connor, Eamon is still ill and Teagan sends you out to find the Ashes of Andraste.

How it impacts Thedas history:
Sometime after the losses of Ostagar, Redcliffe was [saved/destroyed]. Eamon was ill.

What we know:
Even though Eamon was ill, the Warden decided to be a huge jerk and left him to be dying and went to the Brecilian Forest in order to recruit the Dalish Elves. Keeper Zathrian explains that the Werewolves have been attacking the Dalish and he'll offer his help to the Grey Wardens once they are dealt with, he sends the Warden after Witherfang. The Warden goes through the forest killing Werewolves and Darkspawn until eventually they arrive at the ruins where the Werewolves reveal they are no longer mindless creatures and that they have found peace with the Lady of the Forest, the Lady explains how the Werewolves came to be and asks you to bring back Zathrian.

The Warden, knowing of this, decided to [kill the werewolves anyway/kill the Dalish Elves/freed the werewolves from their curse]. This made it so that the Warden's army now consisted of [Werewolves/Elves].

How it impacts Thedas history:
[Werewolves: if sided with] The Werewolves survive in Ferelden.
[Werewolves: otherwise] You've [wiped out/saved] the Werewolves of Ferelden.

What we know:
Still being a huge jerk and knowing that Eamon could die at any moment, the Warden arrived Orzammar and found out that Orzammar was in the middle of fighting themselves for the throne between Harrowmont and Bhelen. The Warden decided to help [Bhelen/Harrowmont] in gaining the throne in order to get the Dwarves to help fight the Blight. After assisting the king-to-be, the Warden assists in shaming the other and wiping out Jarvia's gang from Orzammar. Though they've done a lot, the king-to-be sends them out into the Deep Roads to search for Paragon Branka.

After fighting through legions of spiders and Darkspawn, the Warden arrives to find Branka maddened by her search for the Anvil of the Void. The Warden (unwillingly) assists her in reaching the Anvil where they are confronted by Paragon Caridin, after assiting [Caridin/Branka] the Warden decides to [destroy (Caridin forces this option)/keep] the Anvil of the Void. The remaining Paragon then creates the crown on the Anvil of the Void and tells the Warden to pick whoever for the throne, the Warden decides that [Harrowmont/Bhelen] is king and the dwarves join the fight against the blight.

How it impacts Thedas history:
The Anvil of the Void was found.
[Anvil: If saved] The Anvil of the Void is used to create more golems.
[Harrowmont/Bhelen] becomes King.

What we know:
With Eamon's life on the line, the Warden finally decides that the best course of action is to head off to the Mage Tower. That way, the Warden knows for sure that Eamon is just right there incase things go bad. As the Warden enters the tower, Knight-Commander Gregoir tells them the situation about the tower and how they are going to solve it. The Warden decides to go into the tower anyway because they think that it's going to be simple. After going through the tower itself (and spending an hour or so lost in the Fade) the Warden arrives to the top of the tower where Irving is being kept by Uldred, after [saving/failing to save] Irving the Warden goes back downstairs to the applause of the templars. The Warden then finds out that [they saved the mages/they failed to save the mages], meaning that the [mages/templars] join the army to fight the Blight.

How it impacts Thedas history:
The Circle of Magi suffered major losses after Uldred returned and caused abominations to run around the tower, this eventually lead for [Irving to say all that could've been saved was saved / Gregoir to retire and Cullen to take over as an insane bastard].

What we know:
After finally overstaying his departure from Eamon, the Warden then traveled back to Brecilian F-
"Dave, tell the real story."
Fine.

After finally overstaying his departure, the Warden traveled to the village of Haven and met the crazy cultists. After [killing/freeing] Genetivi, the Warden found their way up the mountain to the cult's leader Kolgrim and his version of Andraste. The Warden decided to [kill/help] Kolgrim and then went for the ashes, upon encountering the revered dragon Andraste the Warden decided to [kill/spare] it before (or after) entering the temple. Upon going through the trials, the Warden found themselves infront of the ashes and [corrupted/left it as it is] after taking a pouch of ashes for Eamon. After heading out of the cavern, the Warden [killed Kolgrim/killed Genetivi/killed Kolgrim and Genetivi/killed Kolgrim and the High Dragon/ killed Kolgrim, the High Dragon and Genetivi] before heading out to Redcliffe.

With the ashes in hand, the Warden bravely decided to do a detour and [spared/killed/didn't do anything because they didn't have the sidequest] Flemeth.
"Dave... god damn it, Eamon should be dead by now."
Fine.

After finally arriving back to Redcliffe, the Warden cured Eamon. Eamon declares the Landsmeet.

How it impacts Thedas history:
The ashes are found or lost in time.
[Cult: if spared] The cult grows in numbers.
Eamon is cured.
Eamon calls for a Landsmeet.

What we know:
The Warden chills out in Denerim for a while before Anora's servant appeared before Eamon warning him of Howe, the Warden is sent to help out and eventually rescues the Queen after slaying Howe. With Anora in hand, the Warden investigates a few of Loghain's plots before finally being sent to the Landsmeet. Upon confronting Loghain, the Warden [wins/loses] the Landsmeet and a duel is called between Loghain and [the Warden / his champion] where upon defeat Loghain submits to the Warden.

Riordin of the Wardens appears and gave the Warden a choice of making Loghain a Warden himself, Alistair wouldn't stand for it and threatens to leave. The Warden decided that [Loghain is to be made a Warden / Loghain is better off dead] before [Anora is made Queen / Alistair is made King / Alistair and Anora are made King and Queen / Cousland and Anora are made King and Queen / Cousland and Alistair are made King and Queen]

How it impacts Thedas history:
Arl Howe is killed.
Ferelden's leadership is established.
Loghain had [won/lost] the Landsmeet against Eamon and the Warden.
The Nobility stand united against the Blight.

What we know:
The Warden and company traveled to Redcliffe in order to fight off the Blight with the army they raised of all races, on the eve of the battle Riordin explains to you and [Loghain/Alistair] the sacrifices of the Grey Warden who kills the archdemon. Morrigan appears and offers you a way out, you [accept/refuse] the offer. After that night, all armies reach Denerim and fights the blight who've overtaken the capital. The Warden fights through the line and reaches the top of Fort Drakon where they fight the Archdemon and claim victory. The Fifth Blight is at an end, the Darkspawn flee and you're [alive/dead].

How it impacts Thedas history:
The Fifth Blight is ended.
[Ritual] The first blight where the hero survived the killing of the Archdemon.
[US] The Warden who united the lands was killed in the final battle.
[Redeemer] Loghain became a famed hero for stopping the Blight.
[Warden-Commander, King] King Alistair, as his first act, stopped the Blight and saved the land.
[Warden-Commander, no King] Alistair of the Grey Wardens stopped the Blight and saved the land.

Epilogue:
Just read this.


Conclusion:
In the end, the entire Warden story was about setting up Ferelden as a major player in the Thedas stage. When Hawke finally steps up and does whatever that sets the world at war, Ferelden will most likely have a different view depending entirely on your player's choices but the minor things like romance and such were what set the world to be like this.

The average person doesn't know most of what happened between you and your companions, the history books will always tell the big overview of what happened but remain sarce on the personal details because they just don't know everything about that person. This is why we have romances and such in the game, it adds more personal flavor on how you build the world to be but Thedas is still the major player.

Like mentioned earlier by a Bioware Employee (forget who, apologies!), did you save the mages because you're a mage yourself? Did you slay the Dalish because your Warden just hates elves? Did you sleep with Morrigan for the ritual because you loved and wanted to be with Alistair no matter what?

Minor details, yet they play a big part of how the world evolved to this.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:18 .

[Anarchosyn]

David Gaider wrote...
We could take the Warden onto a brand new adventure, sure. It'd have to be brand new, however, as the previous adventure is already done. And we'd have to come up with some way to "reset" the power level of the character again, which could involve all sorts of unpleasantness I'm sure you don't want to think about..

I'm actually fine with the direction of DA2 thus far but my curiosity was peeked by this passage above.

Why is it that Bioware now feels compelled to reset things when Baldur's Gate exemplified the classical alternative approach? In other words, why not just scale the enemies and spells upwards to higher abilities, challenges and items? 

This is a sincere question as I've been curious about this trend for a long time. My only guess is it has something to do with the mechanics of the licence (i.e. AD&D was tried, true and tested upwards to very high levels thus easier to balance in a short development cycle). 

Modifié par Anarchosyn, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:13 .

[LucianTansey]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

LucianTansey wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

Ooh I kinda like that Idea, but who's to say the child wouldnt  view the warden as a threat to his mother and go all god-like on his a**!?

That's good closure!
Then Morrigan would be free to show up in the future without the warden. But we need proof that it did happen.

Proof of his death in mirror-world? Like his head? Who's to say he isnt blended and turned into god-baby food!

[upsettingshorts]

I do kind of wonder that myself, Anarchosyn, where is it written that - for all intents and purposes - that RPG protagonists have to start out at the equivalent of level zero?

The only argument I can come up with against the idea is that new players would be clueless as to how to spend the abilities.

But the counter-argument, in my mind, is that roleplaying games that feature spending points on skills are about improving your character from whatever he/she started as, not just evolving from clumsy half-wit into unstoppable badass. I don't know how many people would miss skipping the hopelessly unskilled nobody part.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:20 .

[LaztRezort]

Anarchosyn wrote...

Why is it that Bioware now feels compelled to reset things when Baldur's Gate is a classic example of an alternative approach? In other words, why not just scale the enemies and spells upwards to higher abilities, challenges and items?

I'm guessing here, but perhaps it has to do with the game mechanics and story flavor, both of which are very different from the D&D rules.  D&D (and Forgotten Realms, in particular), had a very wide range of power levels, and seemed to be a much "higher" fantasy world.  The gods themselves, after all, would routinely enter in the picture, get killed, etc.

Perhaps you could extrapolate a 40th level wizard mechanically, but the flavor of the setting would have to support this.  Can a single person take on an army of lower-level entities with ease?  In FR, certainly yes.  In DA, I'm not so sure it would fit in with the setting.

[OriginsIsBest]

LucianTansey wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

LucianTansey wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

What's to stop your Warden from lying to Morrigan just to get to the other side of the mirror so he could finally reach his child, and then turn around and kill Morrigan? Hmmm.

Ooh I kinda like that Idea, but who's to say the child wouldnt  view the warden as a threat to his mother and go all god-like on his a**!?

That's good closure!
Then Morrigan would be free to show up in the future without the warden. But we need proof that it did happen.

Proof of his death in mirror-world? Like his head? Who's to say he isnt blended and turned into god-baby food!

Bioware better show me, my warden's head in DA2 then, if the god baby made a milkshake out of him.

[Harcken]

I never understood why the hell so many people were attached to the Warden. His story is over, it would be ridiculous if he traveled Thedas destroying every threat that came up. He's called the GREY WARDEN for a reason. I love having new heroes and I love worlds that revolve around multiple characters and not one (i.e. malaz or asoiaf).

[Morroian]

Anarchosyn wrote...
I'm actually fine with the direction of DA2 thus far but my curiosity was peeked by this passage above.

Why is it that Bioware now feels compelled to reset things when Baldur's Gate exemplified the classical alternative approach? In other words, why not just scale the enemies and spells upwards to higher abilities, challenges and items?

By the end of Awakenings there's too many abilities as it is. If you continue the same upward curve into a new game or trilogy it would become ridiculous.

What would need to happen isthe number of abilities you get in each game would have to be drastically reduced with changes in the levelling system.

Harcken wrote...
I never understood why the hell so many
people were attached to the Warden. His story is over, it would be
ridiculous if he traveled Thedas destroying every threat that came up.
He's called the GREY WARDEN for a reason. I love having new heroes and I
love worlds that revolve around multiple characters and not one (i.e.
malaz or asoiaf).

Agreed.

Modifié par Morroian, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:59 .