531 réponses à ce sujet

[TheSarex]

I don't understand why you people put a negative spin on everything...

The story continues, a new character is born, maybe just as good as the warden and maybe not. What's good about DA is that the story can go so many ways. Remember KOTOR 1,2, this is the same deal. Wasn't the protagonist in KOTOR 2 just as good as the one from the first? According to some people he was better and according to some he wasn't, but that is a matter of an opinion. Personally I like that they went on together to fight the true sith, who knows maybe the Warden and Hawke will join forces too. The story can go in so many directions that the possibilities are endless, and I really doubt that the story will suck, because if anything bioware has proven itself the most in story telling.

The point is are you willing to give it a chance, if not then I really feel sorry for you because I think you're going to miss a great game.

Modifié par TheSarex, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:06 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Everwarden wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Puts me in mind of a blog entry that Neil Gaiman wrote, actually.

No, David Gaider. No. 

For some context, the Neil Gaiman (failure of an) article was
written as a direct reply to the people at Finish The Book, George. That link to what Neil Gaiman's article has NOTHING to do with this situation. Nothing. At all. It's apples and oranges here. There is a long, long league of difference between Bioware choosing a different path creatively and George R. R. Martin's blatant disregard for his fans. The problem people at Finish The Book, George (I'm in that camp) have against him is not his creative judgments, but his lack of effort to finish the story.

George R.R. Martin flaunts the fact that he's going on vacation every other week, and when he's at home he spends hours blogging (generally advertising new, second rate Ice and Fire swag) and watching football. That is his right, but his fans also have a right to express anger. GRRM won't hear even slight criticism, so the angry fans were forced to move their rants to FTBG.

And that is what Neil Gaiman is complaining about, he's waving a stern finger at GRRM fans who have the audacity to whine about a book they like being ten years overdue.

You have put me in the awkward position of defending Bioware to.. Bioware. Bioware is nothing, -nothing- like George R.R. Martin. Unlike GRRM, BW is still making new content at a respectable pace. The forums aren't run by truncheon wielding moderation robots who ban anyone who dares to disagree. Unless you're giving us an insider tip that Bioware is about to go on a ten year game making hiatus to go on a big cruise, there is no comparison here.

Way to be unbiased.

[OriginsIsBest]

jeckaldied wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

Guys do not worry, our warden went with morrigan through the mirror, since they confirmed that morrigan will be back, then so will our warden, if not then they will of cannonized their game because my warden went with morrigAn through the mirror. If morrigan is in a future game but the warden isn't I'm sure there will be an uproar.

They merely said Morrigan's story wasn't done before annoucing witch hunt, which for all we know is what they meant by that. We have no clue if she will show up later or not

She will show up again. David Gaider said that there will be more Morrigan after Witch Hunt....but he did'nt say when.

[Anarchosyn]

Morroian wrote...

Anarchosyn wrote...
I'm actually fine with the direction of DA2 thus far but my curiosity was peeked by this passage above.

Why is it that Bioware now feels compelled to reset things when Baldur's Gate exemplified the classical alternative approach? In other words, why not just scale the enemies and spells upwards to higher abilities, challenges and items?

By the end of Awakenings there's too many abilities as it is. If you continue the same upward curve into a new game or trilogy it would become ridiculous.

Though I've yet to play my copy of Awakenings, I think this would come down to a matter of taste. I'd agree that the numbers could be unwieldy but I wouldn't say the late game in Baldur's Gate II: Throne Of Bhaal was any different. There were a staggering number of buffs, debuffs and offensive spells, items and objects to navigate but I found the variety fun. I like depth in RPG systems (700+ skills? Sign me up!)

Harcken wrote...
I never understood why the hell so many
people were attached to the Warden. His story is over, it would be
ridiculous if he traveled Thedas destroying every threat that came up.
He's called the GREY WARDEN for a reason. I love having new heroes and I
love worlds that revolve around multiple characters and not one (i.e.
malaz or asoiaf).

Agreed, as well.

LaztRezort wrote...

I'm guessing here, but perhaps it has to do with the game mechanics and story flavor, both of which are very different from the D&D rules.  D&D (and Forgotten Realms, in particular), had a very wide range of power levels, and seemed to be a much "higher" fantasy world.  The gods themselves, after all, would routinely enter in the picture, get killed, etc.

Perhaps you could extrapolate a 40th level wizard mechanically, but the flavor of the setting would have to support this.  Can a single person take on an army of lower-level entities with ease?  In FR, certainly yes.  In DA, I'm not so sure it would fit in with the setting.

Alright, I can get behind this argument. Thematically it wouldn't work (and, it's worth remembering, the Bhaal Spawn in BG were half gods themselves). 

[AndrahilAdrian]

As you can see from my sig, I actually really like the idea of a new, voiced protagonist. I would have been pissed if they didn't introduce a new hero because then the ultimate sacrifice ending would be left out in the cold. What I am annoyed at is that there are lots of loose ends from the 1st game (and especially the witch hunt dlc), and Bioware has not indicated that they will be following up on those. And even when they say they will, they don't (witness witch hunt). As a fan of the franchise I am worried about this.

[Everwarden]

Way to be unbiased.

Way to be ambiguous, point out where I'm wrong. Or better yet, show me where I claimed to lack bias.

I will admit that mention of George R.R. Martin as a positive example makes my blood boil. I think the point Mr. Gaider was trying to make with that reference was that content providers don't 'owe' fans everything they want, and I concur. I don't, however, think that the link provided makes that point, and comparing Bioware to George R.R. Martin is just insulting to Bioware. George R.R. Martin has not written a book in his most popular series in ten years*, and he still posts huge, long winded blog posts ranting about politics and football. If he spent a third of the time writing for his next book as he does blogging or watching football, it would have been done a year ago.
He spends less and less time on the unfinished book series that made him famous and more and more out of the country going to various conventions to oggle foreign Cersei cosplayers.

Anyways! My point was likely clouded by the angry ranting, but it is only that I dispute comparing Bioware to GRRM in any way, and the Neil Gaiman's article on the matter was poorly reasoned tripe that should be left in the waste bin.


*A Feast for Crows was half a book.

Modifié par Everwarden, 11 septembre 2010 - 02:03 .

[RyuAzai]

That is one thing I was surprised to find out people didn't realize. When a writer creates a character, they love that character. It becomes a part of them, an extension. Sometimes they are made to have a sealed fate, some for a plot device, some just because you want a character like this or that. But it is very personal.



It isn't a punishment for them to move one or not use them again, and I know it is harder for a writer to let go of a character they enjoy, it is just a decision that is made and that is it. Usually for the betterment of a story.



Personally I don't want my Warden anymore. He was a hero of Ferelden for me, I played him, his story is over. I want something new. I don't always want my origins to define my character. Wondering how a Cousuland is going to react in the Telvinter or where ever we are taken in the future. He had Origins and Awakening and then the epilogue, that was enough.



I am also on the side is I do dislike when power levels are shifted. So I agree that my Warden is a powerful guy, I like to start new sometimes. And I don't wanna wonder why he can't suddenly take on Ogres, or have 'un-learned' all his abilities.



In the end the whole crying heresy, and everyone complaining is so exhausting to deal with as a forum user I can't believe how exhausting it is for Bioware developers that actually take time out to stop by the forums. A -service- they are providing for us and the community. Stop letting fear control all of you and just enjoy what is being offered to you. Glass is half full guys not half empty.

[Flurdt Vash]

David Gaider wrote...

UberDuber wrote...
I don't want to keep switching places and characters everytime they decide to make an easy sequel.

It is never "easy" to move on.

You think it's a simple matter for me or the other writers to move on to new characters? Like you, we've grown attached to the ones we spent so many years with. But being attached to something and being unwilling to move onto something new are two different things. In the end one shouldn't preclude the other, and while we were reluctant to part ways with those characters, it can indeed be a lot of fun to meet the new ones and work on them.

Do I begrudge those who still feel so attached to their Warden or the old characters that they're not ready to move on? Not really, no. Like I said before, it's a compliment to what we created. When someone starts using that to the point of becoming demanding as to what they think Dragon Age must be, however, that's when I draw the line.

Do you particularly care where I draw the line? Probably not. But it's there nevertheless, and if you're at all interested in convincing the creative people to listen to your arguments you should be aware where it lies. If you're just here to sound off and state what you will or won't buy, then that's your own business. I'm sure many people won't buy DA2 just as many people will, and possibly some who didn't buy DAO for whatever reasons. We're beholden to no-one in particular, though I'll admit to being interested in what those who liked DAO have to say. That's why we're here, after all, even if sometimes it all becomes so much noise you just can't take it anymore (cue head exploding).

Am I going to get drawn into a long discussion regarding the nature of building a story, the purpose of leaving some threads dangling while tying up others, the role of a protaganist versus the role of a setting and other things? Not today-- it's pretty clear that some people just don't get it and at this point and what's more don't want to get it. If someone wishes to set forth their two cents, by all means do so, but I'm not going to get drawn into a defensive argument any more than I already have. I've snapped off enough heads this week, I think.

Mr. Gaider, I owe you an apology  and Im not afraid to post it here on the forums for all to read. I miss took one of your posts earlier and lost my composure as well. That was my fault . I appreciate the fact that you and the rest of the BioWare staff take time out and B.S. with us. Thats cool .

So, once again, my apologies for earlier and I cant WAIT for Da2 . Lady Hawke will rule all  .... errr well at least one playthrew anyway

[Bryy_Miller]

RyuAzai wrote...

That is one thing I was surprised to find out people didn't realize. When a writer creates a character, they love that character. It becomes a part of them, an extension. Sometimes they are made to have a sealed fate, some for a plot device, some just because you want a character like this or that. But it is very personal.

It isn't a punishment for them to move one or not use them again, and I know it is harder for a writer to let go of a character they enjoy, it is just a decision that is made and that is it. Usually for the betterment of a story.

Personally I don't want my Warden anymore. He was a hero of Ferelden for me, I played him, his story is over. I want something new. I don't always want my origins to define my character. Wondering how a Cousuland is going to react in the Telvinter or where ever we are taken in the future. He had Origins and Awakening and then the epilogue, that was enough.

I am also on the side is I do dislike when power levels are shifted. So I agree that my Warden is a powerful guy, I like to start new sometimes. And I don't wanna wonder why he can't suddenly take on Ogres, or have 'un-learned' all his abilities.

In the end the whole crying heresy, and everyone complaining is so exhausting to deal with as a forum user I can't believe how exhausting it is for Bioware developers that actually take time out to stop by the forums. A -service- they are providing for us and the community. Stop letting fear control all of you and just enjoy what is being offered to you. Glass is half full guys not half empty.

You responded to this with a lot more composure than I would have. Being a writer, one of the things that sets me off is when people start talking about writing like they know what they are talking about.

[Leonia]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm bored so I'm writing this just to throw it out there, no specific target and it's probably been 3-4 pages since I first started.

In the "What we know" section, I'm talking about knowing as in player / Warden knowledge, an outsider's view who should take up history or something should be able to find out more about the Thedas history bit underneath.

What we know:
The Warden was taken from [her/her] home of [Highever/Circle of Magi/Orzammar/their clan/Denerim]. After [betrayal/helping a friend/searching around/fighting] they are [recruited/saved/conscripted] by Duncan. Duncan takes them to Ostagar where the Warden meets up with Morrigan and Alistair. Ostagar ends in disaster and the Grey Wardens are framed for the defeat. The Warden and Alistair, saved by Flemeth, are sent out to rally Ferelden against the Blight while Loghain starts a civil war.

How it impacts Thedas history:
Arl Howe wipes out the Cousland line.
Ostagar was a major loss for Ferelden.
King Cailan was killed.
The Blight continues.
Loghain starts a civil war.

What we know:
The Warden with the assistance of Morrigan, Alistair [Possibly: Sten, Leliana, Dog.] decide to head off to Recliffe to seeking the aid of Arl Eamon. Upon arrival, Alistair admits that he's the bastard child of King Maric and he felt he needed to say it to you. You continue foward with this new information and find out that Redcliffe is under attack, the Warden decides to [save/abandon] Redcliffe. Afterwards, Teagan meets up with Isolde and head on up to the castle, Teagan gives you a key and allows you to sneak up into the castle while he distracts the "thing".

You arrive to find Jowan, you [free him, kill him, let him run away] before continuing foward through the undead at the castle. Upon arriving in the main chamber, you find out that Connor is possesed by a demon and has done all this. You're given the options of [killing him/going into the fade to free him/using Jowan's blood magic to go into the fade to free him]. After dealing with Connor, Eamon is still ill and Teagan sends you out to find the Ashes of Andraste.

How it impacts Thedas history:
Sometime after the losses of Ostagar, Redcliffe was [saved/destroyed]. Eamon was ill.

What we know:
Even though Eamon was ill, the Warden decided to be a huge jerk and left him to be dying and went to the Brecilian Forest in order to recruit the Dalish Elves. Keeper Zathrian explains that the Werewolves have been attacking the Dalish and he'll offer his help to the Grey Wardens once they are dealt with, he sends the Warden after Witherfang. The Warden goes through the forest killing Werewolves and Darkspawn until eventually they arrive at the ruins where the Werewolves reveal they are no longer mindless creatures and that they have found peace with the Lady of the Forest, the Lady explains how the Werewolves came to be and asks you to bring back Zathrian.

The Warden, knowing of this, decided to [kill the werewolves anyway/kill the Dalish Elves/freed the werewolves from their curse]. This made it so that the Warden's army now consisted of [Werewolves/Elves].

How it impacts Thedas history:
[Werewolves: if sided with] The Werewolves survive in Ferelden.
[Werewolves: otherwise] You've [wiped out/saved] the Werewolves of Ferelden.

What we know:
Still being a huge jerk and knowing that Eamon could die at any moment, the Warden arrived Orzammar and found out that Orzammar was in the middle of fighting themselves for the throne between Harrowmont and Bhelen. The Warden decided to help [Bhelen/Harrowmont] in gaining the throne in order to get the Dwarves to help fight the Blight. After assisting the king-to-be, the Warden assists in shaming the other and wiping out Jarvia's gang from Orzammar. Though they've done a lot, the king-to-be sends them out into the Deep Roads to search for Paragon Branka.

After fighting through legions of spiders and Darkspawn, the Warden arrives to find Branka maddened by her search for the Anvil of the Void. The Warden (unwillingly) assists her in reaching the Anvil where they are confronted by Paragon Caridin, after assiting [Caridin/Branka] the Warden decides to [destroy (Caridin forces this option)/keep] the Anvil of the Void. The remaining Paragon then creates the crown on the Anvil of the Void and tells the Warden to pick whoever for the throne, the Warden decides that [Harrowmont/Bhelen] is king and the dwarves join the fight against the blight.

How it impacts Thedas history:
The Anvil of the Void was found.
[Anvil: If saved] The Anvil of the Void is used to create more golems.
[Harrowmont/Bhelen] becomes King.

What we know:
With Eamon's life on the line, the Warden finally decides that the best course of action is to head off to the Mage Tower. That way, the Warden knows for sure that Eamon is just right there incase things go bad. As the Warden enters the tower, Knight-Commander Gregoir tells them the situation about the tower and how they are going to solve it. The Warden decides to go into the tower anyway because they think that it's going to be simple. After going through the tower itself (and spending an hour or so lost in the Fade) the Warden arrives to the top of the tower where Irving is being kept by Uldred, after [saving/failing to save] Irving the Warden goes back downstairs to the applause of the templars. The Warden then finds out that [they saved the mages/they failed to save the mages], meaning that the [mages/templars] join the army to fight the Blight.

How it impacts Thedas history:
The Circle of Magi suffered major losses after Uldred returned and caused abominations to run around the tower, this eventually lead for [Irving to say all that could've been saved was saved / Gregoir to retire and Cullen to take over as an insane bastard].

What we know:
After finally overstaying his departure from Eamon, the Warden then traveled back to Brecilian F-
"Dave, tell the real story."
Fine.

After finally overstaying his departure, the Warden traveled to the village of Haven and met the crazy cultists. After [killing/freeing] Genetivi, the Warden found their way up the mountain to the cult's leader Kolgrim and his version of Andraste. The Warden decided to [kill/help] Kolgrim and then went for the ashes, upon encountering the revered dragon Andraste the Warden decided to [kill/spare] it before (or after) entering the temple. Upon going through the trials, the Warden found themselves infront of the ashes and [corrupted/left it as it is] after taking a pouch of ashes for Eamon. After heading out of the cavern, the Warden [killed Kolgrim/killed Genetivi/killed Kolgrim and Genetivi/killed Kolgrim and the High Dragon/ killed Kolgrim, the High Dragon and Genetivi] before heading out to Redcliffe.

With the ashes in hand, the Warden bravely decided to do a detour and [spared/killed/didn't do anything because they didn't have the sidequest] Flemeth.
"Dave... god damn it, Eamon should be dead by now."
Fine.

After finally arriving back to Redcliffe, the Warden cured Eamon. Eamon declares the Landsmeet.

How it impacts Thedas history:
The ashes are found or lost in time.
[Cult: if spared] The cult grows in numbers.
Eamon is cured.
Eamon calls for a Landsmeet.

What we know:
The Warden chills out in Denerim for a while before Anora's servant appeared before Eamon warning him of Howe, the Warden is sent to help out and eventually rescues the Queen after slaying Howe. With Anora in hand, the Warden investigates a few of Loghain's plots before finally being sent to the Landsmeet. Upon confronting Loghain, the Warden [wins/loses] the Landsmeet and a duel is called between Loghain and [the Warden / his champion] where upon defeat Loghain submits to the Warden.

Riordin of the Wardens appears and gave the Warden a choice of making Loghain a Warden himself, Alistair wouldn't stand for it and threatens to leave. The Warden decided that [Loghain is to be made a Warden / Loghain is better off dead] before [Anora is made Queen / Alistair is made King / Alistair and Anora are made King and Queen / Cousland and Anora are made King and Queen / Cousland and Alistair are made King and Queen]

How it impacts Thedas history:
Arl Howe is killed.
Ferelden's leadership is established.
Loghain had [won/lost] the Landsmeet against Eamon and the Warden.
The Nobility stand united against the Blight.

What we know:
The Warden and company traveled to Redcliffe in order to fight off the Blight with the army they raised of all races, on the eve of the battle Riordin explains to you and [Loghain/Alistair] the sacrifices of the Grey Warden who kills the archdemon. Morrigan appears and offers you a way out, you [accept/refuse] the offer. After that night, all armies reach Denerim and fights the blight who've overtaken the capital. The Warden fights through the line and reaches the top of Fort Drakon where they fight the Archdemon and claim victory. The Fifth Blight is at an end, the Darkspawn flee and you're [alive/dead].

How it impacts Thedas history:
The Fifth Blight is ended.
[Ritual] The first blight where the hero survived the killing of the Archdemon.
[US] The Warden who united the lands was killed in the final battle.
[Redeemer] Loghain became a famed hero for stopping the Blight.
[Warden-Commander, King] King Alistair, as his first act, stopped the Blight and saved the land.
[Warden-Commander, no King] Alistair of the Grey Wardens stopped the Blight and saved the land.

Epilogue:
Just read this.


Conclusion:
In the end, the entire Warden story was about setting up Ferelden as a major player in the Thedas stage. When Hawke finally steps up and does whatever that sets the world at war, Ferelden will most likely have a different view depending entirely on your player's choices but the minor things like romance and such were what set the world to be like this.

The average person doesn't know most of what happened between you and your companions, the history books will always tell the big overview of what happened but remain sarce on the personal details because they just don't know everything about that person. This is why we have romances and such in the game, it adds more personal flavor on how you build the world to be but Thedas is still the major player.

Like mentioned earlier by a Bioware Employee (forget who, apologies!), did you save the mages because you're a mage yourself? Did you slay the Dalish because your Warden just hates elves? Did you sleep with Morrigan for the ritual because you loved and wanted to be with Alistair no matter what?

Minor details, yet they play a big part of how the world evolved to this.

I'm saving this post as a .txt file. That was brilliant and exactly what I was trying to say earlier in this thread before all the "I ONLY want to play the Warden" shenanigans derailed the thread. Though of course you went into much greater detail (by outlining the whole plot!) than I had any patience for :happy:

Modifié par leonia42, 11 septembre 2010 - 05:35 .

[asaiasai]

I to a point agree OP i absolutely hated Lost and Heros, for the very reason they never seemed to answer any questions, just pile more and more on each other. Finally i got to the point where i just said to hell with it and watched something else. Authors sometimes seem to forget that they are telling a story, i think the balance is to answer some and open new ones which will give the reader a sense progression through the story. IMHO DAO is still to early to start demanding all the answers but we are getting to the point where some should be forth comming.



I do not think the story of the DAO universe and the lack of solid answers is the culpret here more like a game continuity issue. You can by implication answer some of the DAO questions but because the game endings are bugged, where it seems the game can not even remember the players choices there is some valid complaint here. Witch Hunt answered some questions, opened a few more which i do not have a problem with. What i have a problem with is the game is not able to keep the story straight from one character to the next, i have 20 different characters spanning almost a year now and the game seems to provide every option for the player to choose as opposed to only those that should be there as reflected in the players choices.



The fix is not the story it is the execution of the game engine, at least that is how i feel. I just glossed over it from the very beginning never paid it any mind, but we are getting to the point where some of those answers and choices are going to matter.



Asai

[TheChris92]

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

My only problem with the switch to Commander Hawke is that we don't find out what happened to the warden.


It's not like they have to make the warden the protagonist of every game in the series but at least tell us what happened.

The fact that the Origins story ends with LOTS of hanging plot threads is annoying.

I know that to some of you guys, the writers can do no wrong, and in regards to where they take the story you are correct. HOWEVER, they left the Origins story without an ending.

Leaving the story without an ending may be cute to some people because it lets them fill in things for themselves, but to me at least, not finding out what happens after   !!!!!!!SPOILER!!!!!   Morrigan and the Warden step through the mirror is VERY annoying.

Again, I'm not saying they have to make the Warden playable again I'm just saying they should have the decency to tell us how the Origins story ends.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Morrigan and the Warden go through the mirror and....

The Warden goes to pick up Morrigan's gift and...

Morrigan gets stabbed and falls through the mirror and...


That's how the story ends. It literally just cuts off.


We DID (well most of us did) pay for the game, Bioware.

Finish the story, jeeze.

No matter what ending, they decide to make for Origins, it will never be good enough to anyone everybody. That is at least what I've gathered, so far. What story is it you want to be told about the Warden? The Blight is over, Loghain's regime has been stopped, what more is there to tell? Do you want a story, about how the Warden finally goes to his/her Calling?

PS. Since when did Hawke suddenly become Commander Hawke?! Is it because you're trying to compare him to Shepard? Voiced protagonist, predetermind origin. Are you basically jumping to the conclusion that Dragon Age will become a sort of franchise like Mass Effect? Hawke is just another chapter of the history about Thedas. From what we know she/he is an individual who is crucial to the "change" which will reshape the world itself, just as the Warden was, when he/she stopped the Blight. Maybe you'll be suprised, maybe you'll actually get to care about this character. 

Modifié par TheChris92, 11 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[Emyer]

TheChris92 wrote...
No matter what ending, they decide to make for Origins, it will never be good enough to anyone everybody. That is at least what I've gathered, so far. What story is it you want to be told about the Warden? The Blight is over, Loghain's regime has been stopped, what more is there to tell? Do you want a story, about how the Warden finally goes to his/her Calling?

You know what they say, you please some of the people all of time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time, so yeah, Bioware will never make an ending or story that will please everybody, the best they, or any other writer for that matter, can hope for is that their work polarises the players/readers instead of leaving them indifferent, at least then they know that their work caused some form of emotion over the player.


As for the  Warden, if you played WH, no matter what choice you make, the game ends in a cliffy-ish way, wether you go with Morrigan, let her go or stab her, your Warden is warned about a great change that is to come and how Flemmy is the Big Bad, he then goes to prepare for that, either with Morrigan or with the book Morrigan left behind, that's the tale people want told about the Warden, what happens next? Does he just sit on his thumbs after receiving such information ?



I'd compare it with The Witcher in the way that the main focus of the game had closure(The Blight in DAO and Salamandra in TW) but there were a lot of questions left unanswered(How did Geralt survive the pogrom ? How and why did he lose his memory ? Why is he being chased/followed by the King of the Wild Hunt ?) and there are some questions that will never be answered and are left to player interpretation(Is Alvin really Jaques De Audesberg ?), TW also ends in a cliffy-ish way, in TW2 however, the game follows up on those questions and will answer them as opposed to switching to a different character and following another storyline which is what DA2 seems to do, I won't rule out the possibility of DA2 offering some answers as to the fate of the Warden, Morrigan's plans and what Flemmy really is but I'm not holding my breath waiting for them either


Still, I'll be holding out in DA2 reviews and trailers to make my decision, I won't decide whether or not to buy it just because it isn't exactly how I wanted it to be.

[Artemis_Entrari]

I just wanted to quote this post, because this is details exactly what my issues were after Witch Hunt.

Further, this is the first time I actually felt that BioWare's marketing mislead me.  The way the write-up worded things on the Witch Hunt site made it sound like we'd actually get answers to our questions, and that WH would be the "conclusion" to the Origins saga.  Instead, Witch Hunt answered pretty much nothing, added more questions, and served as nothing but a preview for Dragon Age 2.

Brockololly wrote...

The problem with Witch Hunt is that it was marketed as providing answers to the Morrigan's secrets and questions we had from her in Origins. It doesn't provide any- heck, the IGN review for Witch Hunt bashes the DLC for that very fact.

I'm ok with leaving some things up to the imagination- the whole Urn of Sacred Ashes quest I thought was a mystery done right- you see this fantastical thing first hand and you're given several explanations for it, whether its magical or actually divine. But its left up to you what its nature actually is.

With Morrigan and Witch Hunt, you're left conversing with Morrigan where she shuts you down yet again-

• she won't tell you her plan or her plan for the Old God Baby;
• she tells you Flemeth is even more horrible than she imagined, but what exactly, she doesn't say;
• she says "change" is coming to the world, but what the means in terms of her or Flemeth's plan is left cryptic;
• we can't ask about the Dalish book;
• we never see what the "gift" is she left if you don't follow her through to Mirror World;
• she doesn't say what is beyond the mirror except that its beyond the Fade;
• and yet, Morrigan chooses not to tell you anything yet presumably the Warden will find out if he goes into Mirror World, right? So why not give him a primer of whats going on, if he'll presumably find out soon enough as he faces the future with Morrigan?

I'm ok with cliffhangers, but when they presumably won't be resolved for at least another game, as Morrigan likely isn't in DA2, they become loose ends and annoying more than leaving people wanting more. Hopefully we'll at least learn more about Flemeth in DA2, then Morrigan can come back for DA3 to give us some answers.

Otherwise, when its just heaps of questions upon questions and while teasing that carrot just out the player's reach may work for a bit, if its continuously out of reach pretty soon you just throw up your hands in frustration and give up.


We need solid answers eventually, sooner rather than later once we've forgotten the questions in the first place- Witch Hunt was supposed to provide some answers and only served up more questions, especially if you didn't romance Morrigan.

[OriginsIsBest]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

I just wanted to quote this post, because this is details exactly what my issues were after Witch Hunt.

Further, this is the first time I actually felt that BioWare's marketing mislead me.  The way the write-up worded things on the Witch Hunt site made it sound like we'd actually get answers to our questions, and that WH would be the "conclusion" to the Origins saga.  Instead, Witch Hunt answered pretty much nothing, added more questions, and served as nothing but a preview for Dragon Age 2.

Brockololly wrote...

The problem with Witch Hunt is that it was marketed as providing answers to the Morrigan's secrets and questions we had from her in Origins. It doesn't provide any- heck, the IGN review for Witch Hunt bashes the DLC for that very fact.

I'm ok with leaving some things up to the imagination- the whole Urn of Sacred Ashes quest I thought was a mystery done right- you see this fantastical thing first hand and you're given several explanations for it, whether its magical or actually divine. But its left up to you what its nature actually is.

With Morrigan and Witch Hunt, you're left conversing with Morrigan where she shuts you down yet again-

• she won't tell you her plan or her plan for the Old God Baby;
  
• she tells you Flemeth is even more horrible than she imagined, but what exactly, she doesn't say;
  
• she says "change" is coming to the world, but what the means in terms of her or Flemeth's plan is left cryptic;
  
• we can't ask about the Dalish book;
  
• we never see what the "gift" is she left if you don't follow her through to Mirror World;
  
• she doesn't say what is beyond the mirror except that its beyond the Fade;
  
• and yet, Morrigan chooses not to tell you anything yet presumably the Warden will find out if he goes into Mirror World, right? So why not give him a primer of whats going on, if he'll presumably find out soon enough as he faces the future with Morrigan?

I'm ok with cliffhangers, but when they presumably won't be resolved for at least another game, as Morrigan likely isn't in DA2, they become loose ends and annoying more than leaving people wanting more. Hopefully we'll at least learn more about Flemeth in DA2, then Morrigan can come back for DA3 to give us some answers.

Otherwise, when its just heaps of questions upon questions and while teasing that carrot just out the player's reach may work for a bit, if its continuously out of reach pretty soon you just throw up your hands in frustration and give up.


We need solid answers eventually, sooner rather than later once we've forgotten the questions in the first place- Witch Hunt was supposed to provide some answers and only served up more questions, especially if you didn't romance Morrigan.

Well said.  I'm not interested in Hawke's story until I get answers to the first god damn story.

[BubbleDncr]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Why do we include things like romances and friendships and pets if they don't change the fate of Thedas? Who's to say they don't? Maybe your Grey Warden was only motivated to end the Blight because he or she loved Leliana. Maybe it mattered to Hawke who stood by him at the critical moment when everything happened. 

Totally true, my Warden changed from making kind of more, chaotic neutral decisions to good ones halfway through the Blight because she was trying to please Alistair. 

Hence why now, when Alistair's not around, she reverts to killing peasants. 

[Bryy_Miller]

Everwarden wrote...

Way to be unbiased.

Way to be ambiguous, point out where I'm wrong. 

I can't, because your entire rant was subjective.

That's MY point.

[captain.subtle]

More Characters pulled out of the Blue: More Secret, Hidden pasts, More ulterior motives, More "Ohh.. But we didn't tell you this!" retcon :



DO. NOT. WANT.



Soap Opera?



DO. NOT. WANT.



Its for sissies.

[Bryy_Miller]

Whut?

[aries1001]

I don't understand why people want answers to everything? To me, Tthe Witch Hunt DLC just became more interesting since I learned that there would be no definite answers to - ahem - anything. I like movies, and books that uses what's known as 'open endings' e.g. not giving you closure. Or just giving you enough closure that you're able to use your imagination and guess what happens next. As for the discussion about age, this forum is open to people from they're 13+ I think. And the 18+ rating is used in Europe by PEGI, the BBFC and the USK in Germany. And in Germany it is illegal for a store to sell the game to anyone under the game's rating e.g. if a game gets a rating of 18+, you must be at least to buy the game. Many stores in Denmark have the same policy, although voluntarily.

Back to the topic at hand:
I understand that it is hard for Bioware's writers to give up on their characters and their ideas. But one of the first rules of creativity is this: You must learn how til kill your darlings - meaning you can have a good idea but it simply won't work in the game, or in the book, or in the movie, for various reasons. Every creative work needs to undergo changes, sometimes major ones, to them, to get them just right.

As for our warden's motivation for doing something, I believe it depends on what your take is: Playing as a Dalish Elf,
I 'dchose a different ending for me and Morrigan than if I had been playing as male human noble.

Modifié par aries1001, 11 septembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[Dr. wonderful]

aries1001 wrote...

I don't understand why people want answers to everything? To me, Tthe Witch Hunt DLC just became more interesting since I learned that there would be no definite answers to - ahem - anything. I like movies, and books that uses what's known as 'open endings' e.g. not giving you closure. Or just giving you enough closure that you're able to use your imagination and guess what happens next. As for the discussion about age, this forum is open to people from they're 13+ I think. And the 18+ rating is used in Europe by PEGI, the BBFC and the USK in Germany. And in Germany it is illegal for a store to sell the game to anyone under the game's rating e.g. if a game gets a rating of 18+, you must be at least to buy the game. Many stores in Denmark have the same policy, although voluntarily.

Back to the topic at hand:
I understand that it is hard for Bioware's writers to give up on their characters and their ideas. But one of the first rules of creativity is this: You must learn how til kill your darlings - meaning you can have a good idea but it simply won't work in the game, or in the book, or in the movie, for various reasons. Every creative work needs to undergo changes, sometimes major ones, to them, to get them just right.

As for our warden's motivation for doing something, I believe it depends on what your take is: Playing as a Dalish Elf,
I 'dchose a different ending for me and Morrigan than if I had been playing as male human noble.

Wel said , my friend....well said.

[Dr. wonderful]

TheSarex wrote...

I don't understand why you people put a negative spin on everything...

The story continues, a new character is born, maybe just as good as the warden and maybe not. What's good about DA is that the story can go so many ways. Remember KOTOR 1,2, this is the same deal. Wasn't the protagonist in KOTOR 2 just as good as the one from the first? According to some people he was better and according to some he wasn't, but that is a matter of an opinion. Personally I like that they went on together to fight the true sith, who knows maybe the Warden and Hawke will join forces too. The story can go in so many directions that the possibilities are endless, and I really doubt that the story will suck, because if anything bioware has proven itself the most in story telling.

The point is are you willing to give it a chance, if not then I really feel sorry for you because I think you're going to miss a great game.

Hey, people are stuborn as a Mule doing a Gangwar.

They come around or they don't.

[Bryy_Miller]

vilnii wrote...

Let us not forget the original question this thread was trying to address...

We are this far into the franchise

We're one game in.