531 réponses à ce sujet

[UberDuber]

Oh man this is screwed up....I do not like the way DA is going.

Can I ask a quick question....Does character continuation mean nothing to you guys at Bioware?

[Oblivious]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...



I'm not averse to leaving stuff open for sequels, but the story should still have its own identity. Witch hunt didn't have its own story, it just added loose ends to old loose ends. And I'm worried because Dragon Age 2 doesn't sound like its cleariing any of them up (new hero, new region, etc.). I'm seeking assurance that Bioware have planned out the series, know what they're doing, and intend to tie these loose ends up. I'm also asking for reassurance that DA2 will not follow in Witch Hunt's craptastic footsteps.

But WH is designed to be a bridge.

Then why is it advertised as the "dranatic conclusion to the Origin's storyline" that will see "Morrigan's secrets finally revealed" and "tie up this final loose end once and for all" (quotes from witch hunt page).

They are tied up. Witch Hunt just added some more threads to the rope:devil:

[ErichHartmann]

UberDuber wrote...

Oh man this is screwed up....I do not like the way DA is going.
Can I ask a quick question....Does character continuation mean nothing to you guys at Bioware?

Care to be more specific?  And don't say our Warden.  That horse has been beaten too many times.  

[darkrose]

Wasn't DA originally planned as a game trilogy? (I honestly can't remember.)



The unanswered questions make perfect sense in that context. Book 1 sets up the world and some of the players. Book 2 gives you a look at a different set of players and another part of the world, and Book 3 is the synthesis that wraps it up (mostly).



Regardless of my opinion on some of the design choices for DA2, I don't have a problem with the storytelling aspect.

[Lord_Valandil]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...



I'm not averse to leaving stuff open for sequels, but the story should still have its own identity. Witch hunt didn't have its own story, it just added loose ends to old loose ends. And I'm worried because Dragon Age 2 doesn't sound like its cleariing any of them up (new hero, new region, etc.). I'm seeking assurance that Bioware have planned out the series, know what they're doing, and intend to tie these loose ends up. I'm also asking for reassurance that DA2 will not follow in Witch Hunt's craptastic footsteps.

But WH is designed to be a bridge.

Then why is it advertised as the "dranatic conclusion to the Origin's storyline" that will see "Morrigan's secrets finally revealed" and "tie up this final loose end once and for all" (quotes from witch hunt page).

Hahahaha, those funny quotes.
If the quotes were something like, "There is no real conclusion to the Origins story line", "Morrigan's secrets will not be revealed", "The ties will still hang loose", it wouldn't sell.

[Maconbar]

David Gaider wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...
I prefer stories that are self-contained.

Tough. I prefer stories that leave the player still wanting more.

I am seeking assurance from Bioware that they have planned out the entire series with a cohesive narrative, and are not making it up as they go along.

We're not making it up as we go along. Except for the parts where we are, of course, but we have a Master Plan (if that's what you're asking). Whether that translates into "will all my questions be answered?" the answer-- very clearly-- is "maybe". But I wouldn't hold your breath or anything. That would be ill-advised.

I envision the end of DA to be something like this:

The warden meets his dad in a church. Warden's dad explains that this was a place you all created so you could find each other. Yada, yada, yada. Warden, Alistair, Morri, Leli, Oghren, Sten, Hawke, Bethany, Zevran, Shale, and Wynne gather in a church and see a bright light.

[SDNcN]

darkrose wrote...

Wasn't DA originally planned as a game trilogy? (I honestly can't remember.)

Nope.
multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/02/11/why-dragon-age-isnt-a-trilogy/

[Morroian]

Morrigans God son wrote...
DA is slowly dying.

Based on what?

[Tooneyman]

UberDuber wrote...

Oh man this is screwed up....I do not like the way DA is going.
Can I ask a quick question....Does character continuation mean nothing to you guys at Bioware?

Yeah its called ME series enjoy it.

[Morrigans God son]

 Dragon age broke my heart!

Modifié par Morrigans God son, 10 septembre 2010 - 12:22 .

[AndrahilAdrian]

darkrose wrote...

Wasn't DA originally planned as a game trilogy? (I honestly can't remember.)

The unanswered questions make perfect sense in that context. Book 1 sets up the world and some of the players. Book 2 gives you a look at a different set of players and another part of the world, and Book 3 is the synthesis that wraps it up (mostly).

Regardless of my opinion on some of the design choices for DA2, I don't have a problem with the storytelling aspect.

If it were a planned trilogy, I wouldn't worry. But with the expansions, all the DLCs, and the abrupt change in setting and pc for DA2, it feels messy and improvised. I just hope they know what they're doing.

[Lord Gremlin]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Let's start making bets on Flemeth's true identity. Possible bets:
- full list of Old Gods excluding Urthemiel
- Fen'Harel
- Andraste (a popular bet, although irrational)

...Is gambling allowed on these forums BTW?

I'm betting for...
...none of those options, actually.

Flemeth is a Nug Bomb.

What is Fen'Harel is not a wolf, but a nug? With nasty big pointy teeth?

Anyway, there is always a place for mad bets. Like, you can always bet that all horses participating in a race will explode (which won't happen unless you rigged em yourself). I've picked up options that proved to be most popular and have at least some vague proof to back them up. 

[Morrigans God son]

Dragon age broke my freaking heart!

*Bleep* Hawke. I hate that guy so much.

[Brockololly]

The problem with Witch Hunt is that it was marketed as providing answers to the Morrigan's secrets and questions we had from her in Origins. It doesn't provide any- heck, the IGN review for Witch Hunt bashes the DLC for that very fact.

I'm ok with leaving some things up to the imagination- the whole Urn of Sacred Ashes quest I thought was a mystery done right- you see this fantastical thing first hand and you're given several explanations for it, whether its magical or actually divine. But its left up to you what its nature actually is.

With Morrigan and Witch Hunt, you're left conversing with Morrigan where she shuts you down yet again-

• she won't tell you her plan or her plan for the Old God Baby;
• she tells you Flemeth is even more horrible than she imagined, but what exactly, she doesn't say;
• she says "change" is coming to the world, but what the means in terms of her or Flemeth's plan is left cryptic;
• we can't ask about the Dalish book;
• we never see what the "gift" is she left if you don't follow her through to Mirror World;
• she doesn't say what is beyond the mirror except that its beyond the Fade;
• and yet, Morrigan chooses not to tell you anything yet presumably the Warden will find out if he goes into Mirror World, right? So why not give him a primer of whats going on, if he'll presumably find out soon enough as he faces the future with Morrigan?

I'm ok with cliffhangers, but when they presumably won't be resolved for at least another game, as Morrigan likely isn't in DA2, they become loose ends and annoying more than leaving people wanting more. Hopefully we'll at least learn more about Flemeth in DA2, then Morrigan can come back for DA3 to give us some answers.

Otherwise, when its just heaps of questions upon questions and while teasing that carrot just out the player's reach may work for a bit, if its continuously out of reach pretty soon you just throw up your hands in frustration and give up.


We need solid answers eventually, sooner rather than later once we've forgotten the questions in the first place- Witch Hunt was supposed to provide some answers and only served up more questions, especially if you didn't romance Morrigan.

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 septembre 2010 - 12:28 .

[SDNcN]

Morrigans God son wrote...

Dragon age broke my freaking heart!
*Bleep* Hawke. I hate that guy so much.

Sucks. Fortunately you don't exist in my iteration of the Dragon Age universe.

Modifié par SDNcN, 10 septembre 2010 - 12:28 .

[AndrahilAdrian]

Brockololly wrote...

The problem with Witch Hunt is that it was marketed as providing answers to the Morrigan's secrets and questions we had from her in Origins. It doesn't provide any- heck, the IGN review for Witch Hunt bashes the DLC for that very fact.
I'm ok with leaving some things up to the imagination- the whole Urn of Sacred Ashes quest I thought was a mystery done right- you see this fantastical thing first hand but whether you're given several explanations for it, whether its magical or actually divine. But its left up to you what it is.
With Morrigan and Witch Hunt, you're left conversing with Morrigan where she shuts you down yet again- she won't tell you her plan or her plan for the Old God Baby; she tells you Flemeth is even more horrible than she imagined, but what exactly, she doesn't say; she says "change" is coming to the world, but what the means in terms of her or Flemeth's plan is left cryptic; we can't ask about the Dalish book; we never see what the "gift" is she left if you don't follow her through to Mirror World; she doesn't say what is beyond the mirror except that its beyond the Fade; and yet, Morrigan chooses not to tell you anything yet presumably the Warden will find out if he goes into Mirror World, right? So why not give him a primer of whats going on, if he'll presumably find out soon enough as he faces the future with Morrigan?
I'm ok with cliffhangers, but when they presumably won't be resolved for at least another game, as Morrigan likely isn't in DA2, they become loose ends and annoying more than leaving people wanting more. Hopefully we'll at least learn more about Flemeth in DA2, then Morrigan can come back for DA3 to give us some answers. Otherwise, when its just heaps of questions upon questions and while teasing that carrot just out the player's reach may work for a bit, if its continuously out of reach pretty soon you just throw up your hands in frustration and give up.
We need solid answers eventually- Witch Hunt was supposed to provide some and only served up more questions.

This is my position on the matter too.

[SirShreK]

Brockololly wrote...

The problem with Witch Hunt is that it was marketed as providing answers to the Morrigan's secrets and questions we had from her in Origins. It doesn't provide any- heck, the IGN review for Witch Hunt bashes the DLC for that very fact.
I'm ok with leaving some things up to the imagination- the whole Urn of Sacred Ashes quest I thought was a mystery done right- you see this fantastical thing first hand but whether you're given several explanations for it, whether its magical or actually divine. But its left up to you what it is.
With Morrigan and Witch Hunt, you're left conversing with Morrigan where she shuts you down yet again- she won't tell you her plan or her plan for the Old God Baby; she tells you Flemeth is even more horrible than she imagined, but what exactly, she doesn't say; she says "change" is coming to the world, but what the means in terms of her or Flemeth's plan is left cryptic; we can't ask about the Dalish book; we never see what the "gift" is she left if you don't follow her through to Mirror World; she doesn't say what is beyond the mirror except that its beyond the Fade; and yet, Morrigan chooses not to tell you anything yet presumably the Warden will find out if he goes into Mirror World, right? So why not give him a primer of whats going on, if he'll presumably find out soon enough as he faces the future with Morrigan?
I'm ok with cliffhangers, but when they presumably won't be resolved for at least another game, as Morrigan likely isn't in DA2, they become loose ends and annoying more than leaving people wanting more. Hopefully we'll at least learn more about Flemeth in DA2, then Morrigan can come back for DA3 to give us some answers. Otherwise, when its just heaps of questions upon questions and while teasing that carrot just out the player's reach may work for a bit, if its continuously out of reach pretty soon you just throw up your hands in frustration and give up.
We need solid answers eventually- Witch Hunt was supposed to provide some and only served up more questions.

Hmm.. Good points.

It seems that you get the book if you play as the Orlesian warden. Just heard from one of the guys on the forum (filetemo).

[Morroian]

Morrigans God son wrote...

Dragon age broke my freaking heart!
*Bleep* Hawke. I hate that guy so much.

You don't have to repeat yourself and you haven't even played Hawke so such statements are idiotic.

[Morroian]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...
If it were a planned trilogy, I wouldn't worry. But with the expansions, all the DLCs, and the abrupt change in setting and pc for DA2, it feels messy and improvised.

Abrupt? Why when all along it was clear that future games were going to be set elsewhere in Thedas and it was implied that there would be a new protagonist?

I've said it before but IMHO having a new protagonist is more preferable than artificially depowering the Warden to start from scratch in a new game.

[AndrahilAdrian]

Morroian wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...
If it were a planned trilogy, I wouldn't worry. But with the expansions, all the DLCs, and the abrupt change in setting and pc for DA2, it feels messy and improvised.

Abrupt? Why when all along it was clear that future games were going to be set elsewhere in Thedas and it was implied that there would be a new protagonist?

I've said it before but IMHO having a new protagonist is more preferable than artificially depowering the Warden to start from scratch in a new game.

I can see why they needed to use a new protagonist for continuity with the "warden dies" ending. Its just that there are still loose ends in the warden's story that wich hunt failed (epically) to tie up. I am now worried that they won't ever be resolved .

[Lightspawn]

Maconbar wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...
I prefer stories that are self-contained.

Tough. I prefer stories that leave the player still wanting more.

I am seeking assurance from Bioware that they have planned out the entire series with a cohesive narrative, and are not making it up as they go along.

We're not making it up as we go along. Except for the parts where we are, of course, but we have a Master Plan (if that's what you're asking). Whether that translates into "will all my questions be answered?" the answer-- very clearly-- is "maybe". But I wouldn't hold your breath or anything. That would be ill-advised.

I envision the end of DA to be something like this:

The warden meets his dad in a church. Warden's dad explains that this was a place you all created so you could find each other. Yada, yada, yada. Warden, Alistair, Morri, Leli, Oghren, Sten, Hawke, Bethany, Zevran, Shale, and Wynne gather in a church and see a bright light.

well i guess u just watched Lost season finale!

[Brockololly]

SirShreK wrote..
Hmm.. Good points.

It seems that you get the book if you play as the Orlesian warden. Just heard from one of the guys on the forum (filetemo).

Yeah, I just went through as an Orlesian- yet more questions: 

• You can ask Morrigan about whether Flemeth had something to do with the Blight- Morrigan's response: "Perhaps even more than you would even believe." What does that mean?
• Then she says: "Go. Tell your Wardens to be wary. Tell them to watch for what is to come." ???Again, what does Morrigan have planned or know of Flemeth's plans that would require the Warden to be on guard?
• And if you let Morrigan go as the Orlesian, Morrigan's last words are: "I am sorry. For everything." What the hell does that mean to the Orlesian who is a stranger to her? Seems ominous, but that line is what you get if you're friendly to her or in love and let her go- it makes more sense there.
• And of course you get the book and "gift" in every situation where you let her go....

*sigh* I'm fine with cliffhangers provided they're picked up quickly. Otherwise you just have people falling off the cliff as they lose interest. You can only tease for so long before people get frustrated and storm off.

So I hope BioWare has its Master Plan regarding where they're taking DA because right now it seems they're just teasing and not doing much in the way of answering questions. 


I just picture Gaider and the writers reading all of our crazy speculation and going:

[AndrahilAdrian]

distinguetraces wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...
I am worried about how many there are.

I disagree -- this is an aspect of the DA setting that I really like. It makes the stories feel as if they're part of a real world that extends beyond the end of the story.

Wow...that was the best excuse for loose ends I've ever heard (seriously).  you are a grade A spin doctor, Bioware should put you on their marketing staff.

[SKcas]

So origins (game or story) is complete.



What I got at the end of WH is that both Morrigan's and the Grey Warden's story is still open. You can go with her through the mirror or stay and take the book that she said use.



Am I wrong to think the Warden's story is still open? You either go with Morrigan or use the book. Wasn't the gift the book she left?



I like the how WH ended. It left a lot of story for the BioWare to work with in the future.



Thanks BioWare.