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[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Pygmali0n wrote...

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

I
wouldn't say that is a fact. I see a lot more
"OMG WITCH HUNT IS AWESOMESAUCE" than threads like these. I think the
DLC was about a 7/10. Probably could of been a 9 or 10 if that had
weeded out the bugs, and actually you know revealed some secrets.
I think everyone before Witch Hunt had came to the conclusion Flemeth
is a bad moon rising. That really wasn't shocking or new news.

What
you say is obviously and evidently wrong - I can't believe I actually
had a browse over the forum subject titles to confirm it. Moreover the
majority of comments in threads are negative.

And good luck finding a 7/10 review for WH.

Another guy blindly in love with Morrigan? Is Flemeth bad? Is Morrigan trustworthy?

EDIT - huh, just found this http://blog.bioware....velation-comic/

in this thread: http://social.biowar...index/4755173/1

This is such a game-changing moment and should have been in Origins.

My deduction on the 70/30 was more or so what I had seen flooded on the DA:2 and this forums front page the past week. It was a guess, but since I'm so ignorant and wrong I decided to search for myself, and I opened the threads(I didn't open them all there are like 50-100), but I would say about a 50/50 were more or less content/pleased with Witch Hunt than severly upset, and most of the complaints are due to bugs you could probably add +-5 to either side since I didn't look at all of them. Also if you go look at the announcement thread you would get much more "OMG AWESOMESAUCE" opinions than bitter ones. I certainly disagree with that Witch Hunt was "awesome". I was expecting much more and it is a stale DLC for anyone who didn't romance Morrigan I thought.

I gave
it a 7/10 from a romantic point of view obviously(if you read furthur
down what I said past what you quoted) there are a TON of people who
didn't romance Morrigan, so if you can apply common sense that is going
to lower the overall score, and also if you read what you quoted I said it would of been a much higher score had it actually involved some answers and fixed the bugs. Overall in it's current state I would rate it probably a 5.5 or 6 if you are curious.

I have also advocated that Morrigan's story deserves much more than a DLC. I been
on the bandwagon since before I registered on these forums. I'm hardly
a Morrigan fan boy, or one of those dime a dozen idiots who can't use
the search button before posting threads over the same topic with
questions that have been asked a million times(if that is what your implying to me).

Also I just googled "witch hunt review" I  looked at only a few from the first two pages I got; 4/5, 6.5/10, "Above Average", 7/10, 3/5, "Average". Granted reviews are just opinions that can vary greatly. I saw a 9/10 and a 1/5 on the second page of the google search.

Anyways I'm gonna bow out of this discussion.

[TJPags]

On the contrary, WITH the OGB, I see a LOT of possibilities. Obviously, I'm not a writer for Bioware, so I can't tell you what they'd choose, but just from the top of my head:

1) OGB grows up, starts getting out of control, and Morrigan needs help keeping him in line.

2) OGB runs away from Morrigan, starts making bad things happen (in ignorance of consequences of his action, or intentionally) and Morrigan needs help finding him . . . or the Warden and Morrigan can have parralel attempts to find/straighten him out.

3) Someone kidnaps OGB, Morrigan needs help rescuing him.

4) Someone kidnaps Morrigan, OGB goes running to warden for help



Without the OGB . . . really, unless there's some kind of future Morrigan v Flemeth confrontation, I don't see it - and even that, I'm not sure can hold up for a full length game. . . .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Oh well, we'll see what they'll do. Gaider has confirmed that neither ending is canon, so both possibilities will lead to something in future installments.



What they'll do with each possibility, no one knows. Let us pray that they will be pulled off well enough.

[Pygmali0n]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Overall in it's current state I would rate it probably a 5.5 or 6 if you are curious.

Also I just googled "witch hunt review" I  looked at only a few from the first two pages I got; 4/5, 6.5/10, "Above Average", 7/10, 3/5, "Average". Granted reviews are just opinions that can vary greatly. I saw a 9/10 and a 1/5 on the second page of the google search.

Anyways I'm gonna bow out of this discussion.

Hi, did read the whole thing, I don't always comment on every point of a single post though. Sorry, don't trust your perception. You rated it 7/10 with the bugs - and without 8 or 9 - now you say 5.5-6? Googling, the 9/10 is unspecified member scores on gametrailers. Saw a 4* but the guy totally failed to justify it with his small paragraph.

DA2 forum? Why there? I checked the 1st 3 pages and saw only one neutral thread title about WH. The top thread in news & announcements is overwhelmingly negative - though there are a fair few people who liked it.

Well, best wishes, you seem sincere, so I'm going to go with perception problem.

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[TJPags]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Oh well, we'll see what they'll do. Gaider has confirmed that neither ending is canon, so both possibilities will lead to something in future installments.

What they'll do with each possibility, no one knows. Let us pray that they will be pulled off well enough.

Only quoting you here since you and I were discussing it.
Since our discussion, I've watched the "stab Morrigan" cutscene.  I agree it's ambiguous, although it looks to me like the player pushes her through the mirror in the process of pushing Morrigan's dying body off.  She does look alive as she goes through.

I've also seen a posting of the plot flags for Morrigan post-WH.  Not sure if those are the only ones (it was posted in the Morrigan fan thread, and seemed to be posted for other reasons, perhaps, than this) but one is labelled "Morrigan stabbed".

Combining those two things, along with some other comments I remember about Morri's story not necessarily being done, I'll say it sure looks like she survived the stabbing.

However, I think it makes the stabbing a little less . . . I don't know, palatable? . . to me.  I also will still say that it's really NOT a great plot device IMO.  Stab her (really an assisnation kind of move, rather than a fight), she falls though the mirror, apparently dead, but not.  No, I don't like that - but I'll admit, simply for cheesy gameplay mechanics reasons than anything else.
 
So - yes, she'll definitely be back if they get to a DA3.  Still not sure what her prt will be without OGB, but we'll see.

[spoe71]

Overview— 3/5 stars
 
I was let down on my first play-though: Morrigan didn’t recognize my character properly; that was the biggest issue. She insisted I “denied” her “in Redcliff,” which I did not. She also made no mention of her and my character’s relationship. Another disappointment. Ugg, I hate bugs.
 
On the second play-through, things went better with my human noble. I noticed dialogue differences right away—namely, the first dialogue in the game just outside Flemmeth’s hut. I read on DA Wiki that if you get the “Don’t worry, boy, we’ll get the child back” (or something similar) that the game reads the import properly. It did. I found closure with Morrigan—neatly packed into a reference to her demon baby being both “safe” and the herald for change. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out Morrigan’s baby is likely the protagonist in DA2. 
 
I don’t know that for sure, but it’s a logical conclusion. The cliffhanger though—the item my character would supposedly be very interested in—was a bit of a cheap shot considering Witch Hunt is the last of the official DLC. I’m going to assume, since we notice both a book and a bedroll when the camera pans over, that the “interesting item” is a goose-down comforter. “Not bad,” as a certain drunken dwarf would say.

I was a bit disappointed that Morrigan herself--my all-time favorite DA character--only had a cameo in the DLC.  I would have liked to have helped her find the mirror.
 
Character Development— 1.5/5 stars
 
I get a bit spoiled on Bioware games with character development, and I suppose I expect as much depth in DLC as I do campaigns, even though, logically, I should not. But, then again, Shale had a pretty impressive amount of development, but her DLC is tied to the OC, so that’s a different beast I suppose. Finn and whoever that Elven lady was had little to no depth (Finn having a slight edge over the other one—don’t recall her name), which goes directly against what makes Bioware the RPG giant that it is; people care about Bioware characters. I did not care about the two in this DLC. They did have some funny banter though, so that was nice.
 
The addition the Mabari hound was awesome, however. I’ve never needed the mod that automatically puts the hound in the party. He’s one of my favorites, so it was really nice to see him back.
 
Fights— 3.5/5 stars
 The boss fight with the critter just before you enter the area in which Morrigan resides is very nice. The most fun in the game. Well done. The sentinels in the Circle of Magi can also be very challenging if you don’t pay attention. I would have liked to see something creative in the Elven ruins, but hey, 'two out of three ain’t bad.'

Modifié par spoe71, 13 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[zahra]

The final secret revealed at the end: Morrigan loves Dog more than she ever loved you. Srry guys.

[TJPags]

zahra wrote...

The final secret revealed at the end: Morrigan loves Dog more than she ever loved you. Srry guys.

it was the half eaten rabbit in her underwear, wasn't it? 

[zahra]

TJPags wrote...

zahra wrote...

The final secret revealed at the end: Morrigan loves Dog more than she ever loved you. Srry guys.

it was the half eaten rabbit in her underwear, wasn't it? 

That sealed the deal. She is the witch of the wilds, in her eyes Dog > Any Human.

Which explains her initial reaction of "Yay Dog! I missed you so much! Oh, and you. 'Sup."

[Reika]

TJPags wrote...

zahra wrote...

The final secret revealed at the end: Morrigan loves Dog more than she ever loved you. Srry guys.

it was the half eaten rabbit in her underwear, wasn't it? 

She claimed otherwise, but I think she was totally won over by that.

[Severen Pendragon]

Pfffft! My WH ending was bugged and pointless really...I was hoping to add this DLC to the overall thread of one of my DA toons stories, and then pick up again with where she is in DA:A...I suppose if I had played WH right after the end of DA:O and before I started DA:A it would have provided some sense of closure and depth to my story. While I realize the ending was bugged and they are going to fix it, it hardly seems worth even reloading the game for it.



I believe much of Dragons Age Orgins & Awakenings suffers from terrible end-quest anti-climax's. Both the big quests and the small. Half the time I dont even realize I have finished a quest at all. I also feel that the large emotional investment the game encourages to make in the story is not really respected by the designers in the end quest transitions. There are many examples of this, but lets look at the Post-corination scene.



No matter what origin your character is, there is something you have done in the game that you would like to see happen now. My human noble female was to become Queen. And find her brother. And restore her families lands. And begin rebuilding the Wardens. And...it was a big drag that this was all done for me and all I got to was have a little chit chat with a lot of npc's I never used.

It would have been great if I had the chance to actually engage is some of this stuff, before the game went to endcredits...you know, like a book end to how the game started.



I save powergaming for my MMO's, where roleplaying and storylines are completly meaningless. DA is a great role playing platform, but I feel it repeatedly drops the ball right at the moment of triumph, with the unpleasant effect of making me wonder why I got so invested in the story. With the little side quests, the chapter quests and the overall story as a whole. I mean, we all made a big deal about starting off from the elven slums, or the circle tower and developing different story lines greatly affecting the world around us in very different ways, to all end up in the that same post-corination scene, where nothing you do or say matters any more, and except for some cheap scrolling text it really makes no difference one way or another.



I do not think the developers understood the value of post-quest transitions. I also suspect that they are allowing themselves too think far ahead, like DA:A while making DA:O and not taking into account the fact that all of us have unresloved issues or actions that need to be addressed in a meaningful way BEFORE we move on.



Finally, WH cant be the "end" of all of our toons, b/c as wardens dying from the taint, we all must face the deep roads, alone, and fight one epic and endless stream of Darkspawn, yes? Given the vivid memory I still have of drinking the blood, why wouldn't you allow us the experience of a wardens death?

[Pygmali0n]

Severen Pendragon wrote...

Finally, WH cant be the "end" of all of our toons, b/c as wardens dying from the taint, we all must face the deep roads, alone, and fight one epic and endless stream of Darkspawn, yes? Given the vivid memory I still have of drinking the blood, why wouldn't you allow us the experience of a wardens death?

Hey, my Warden, a fine upstanding moral-fibre-of-the-earth sort, usually, was going to save himself with evil mad scientist man at the keep. Whatever happened to him?

[Pygmali0n]

zahra wrote...

TJPags wrote...

zahra wrote...

The final secret revealed at the end: Morrigan loves Dog more than she ever loved you. Srry guys.

it was the half eaten rabbit in her underwear, wasn't it? 

That sealed the deal. She is the witch of the wilds, in her eyes Dog > Any Human.

Which explains her initial reaction of "Yay Dog! I missed you so much! Oh, and you. 'Sup."

I believe you. Question is then, why didn't Dog go through the mirror instead of you, or as a condition...

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

My warden basically rode off into the sunset with the woman he loved to meet his son, how is that not a good ending?

[BeastMTL]

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

My warden basically rode off into the sunset with the woman he loved to meet his son, how is that not a good ending?

That only works IF you romanced Morrigan and did the DR and didnt hit a bug.
Unfortunately the only people that seem to get a decent ending are the Morrigan romancers. Everyone else gets a middle finger.

[Greed1914]

spoe71 wrote...

Overview— 3/5 stars
 

 
On the second play-through, things went better with my human noble. I noticed dialogue differences right away—namely, the first dialogue in the game just outside Flemmeth’s hut. I read on DA Wiki that if you get the “Don’t worry, boy, we’ll get the child back” (or something similar) that the game reads the import properly. It did. I found closure with Morrigan—neatly packed into a reference to her demon baby being both “safe” and the herald for change. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out Morrigan’s baby is likely the protagonist in DA2. 
 
.'

I really hope you don't mean to say the Hawke is Morrigan's baby considering Bioware has flat out said, "Hawke isn't the god baby."  Also, Hawke's story in DA2 starts out with him and his family fleeing Lothering as the Darkspawn approach, which means that it starts out during the early parts of Origins. 

[spoe71]

ok. I missed that part. Sure looked that way from the ending, though. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess we won't get anything on the "god baby" after all. Le sigh.

[spoe71]

Wait...unless the god baby is the bad guy. Guess that's possible--and certainly plausible--too. Gah, who knows. I can't wait to find out, though.

[TJPags]

spoe71 wrote...

Wait...unless the god baby is the bad guy. Guess that's possible--and certainly plausible--too. Gah, who knows. I can't wait to find out, though.

I think unlikely.

If DA2 starts with the attack on Lothering - which is early in the Origins timeline - and spans 10 years, then OGB is, at most, 10 years old by the end . . .more likely 8 (conception at the end of Origins, 1 year or so into DA2, + nice months).

Not exactly the scariest thing in the world, an 8 yr old kid.

[graylshaped]

Must admit to a bit of befuddlement. This is an ongoing series, or so we have been led to believe. At what point does "closure" support that basic premise? Having read/watched maybe eight zillion trilogy/series, the LAST thing I want is for mysteries to be explained this early on. To the contrary, the mysteries must deepen--or the answers must point to the fact that the questions were the wrong questions--in the middle books/episodes.



Having said that, we now know what project Bioware's summer interns were given. Story elements notwithstanding, the repetitive environments and overall unfinished feel should embarrass them. I played through it with the female mage who ran my first DA:O playthrough; I'll save the male rogue who romanced Morrigan, and who felt the most to me like a true creature of this world rather than an avatar, for a playthrough after the bug release.

[CybAnt1]

 Well, I got bit by the bug. My elf mage definitely chose the DR ending (and was in love with Morrigan), yet Morrigan was angry at him for not doing the ritual. And mentioning nothing about the romance or my child. Of course, maybe I caused the bug by misplacing Morrigan's ring during Awakening, because that was where I imported my save from. 

Bottom line: I didn't want to play through again & wait for the patch, so I watched the ending I was "supposed" to get on youtube. 

I guess it's a happy ending for Morrigan romancer-DR doers --- going off with the woman they love to raise their child and "to face the future together" (hmmm why were we not given this choice before?) Well, except for of course, even those opting to do this, Morrigan reveals very little to (well, on this "side" of the Eluvian portal, anyway). 

We still don't know regardless of ending, 
1) the exact nature of god-baby, except it's male, "innocent," and yes, matters in some special way to this future of "change"
2) where the Eluvian portals go, except "beyond the Fade" (well, I've always suspected the Fade is itself an interstitial dimension which might not just connect to the world of Thedas but perhaps to other ones; and so it does) and that whoever goes through the working one can't come back. But ... ever? Or just for now? We are told there are portals so wherever they lead, there must be a way back? 
3) what Flemeth is (well, she/it is not human or an abombination, just apparently something "worse") but a warning to watch out for her (and that she's not dead, even if we "killed" her) 

BTW. my theory about the Eluvian portals is they are linked to the Elvish past, I suspect the Dalish elves were the first masters of magic, only later teaching it to the Human Circle Magi and Tevinter Mages. Wherever they go, it has something to do with the elven gods and "lost" traditions and mythology ... that much has been made clear. 

How this will all connect to DA2 isn't clear. We do know Hawke cannot be god-baby. But, BTW, that does not mean god-baby cannot end up being a Hawke companion ... 

I don't think, BTW, even if our Wardens went through the portal, that it's really the last time we'll "see" them, or Morrigan. We don't know for sure there is no way to return from whence they go ... just that there was no return trip to the point of departure and no way to follow through that one particular portal. 

If Morrigan and her baby are going to change the world, there clearly must be a way back. Maybe that's the story for DA3, or a future DA2 expansion. 

[Pygmali0n]

BeastMTL wrote...

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

My warden basically rode off into the sunset with the woman he loved to meet his son, how is that not a good ending?

That only works IF you romanced Morrigan and did the DR and didnt hit a bug.
Unfortunately the only people that seem to get a decent ending are the Morrigan romancers. Everyone else gets a middle finger.

And if you ignore her complete lack of warmth, stated intention to sacrifice all personal happiness and warning that it it would be better for both of you to go your separate ways. I don't mind WH ending where it did - I do mind believability being stretched, lack of character development, decisions only making sense if you're a horny teenage virgin. Morrigan needed to throw the Warden some kind of bone to justify walking through the mirror - even if it wasn't her aim for him to do so.

A great pair of ****** only gets you so far in a real relationship.

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[RazorrX]

The OGB is a *possible* thing not a cannon thing. IF you did not romance Morrigan and/or did not do the Dark Ritual - there was no offspring from her.



I think Morrigan is being set up to be a counter for Flemeth. She will be a manipulator, etc. working to oppose the mechanizations of Flemeth. How she does this will be tempered by how you treated her in the game/dlc. If you loved her, etc. she would be more caring of life, people, etc. IF you were mean, betrayed her, etc. she would be more cold hearted about it. I expect to see Morrigan again in a future game, but not the warden.



I always took it that the epilog from awakening that said the warden left was an indication that the calling had come to you.

[Pygmali0n]

Acharnae wrote...

Unfortunately the god child can not be incremental in DA2 for one simple reason: if a warden died when killing the archdemon that is definite proof that the god child did not happen...

Hmm, I'd say the player is stretching believability there Acharnae - you'd have to be suicidal not to take up that offer, and totally unfeeling of Alistair. If their Warden was that full of despair they would have topped themselves long before entering Denerim - and finer philosophical or moral points? pshaw, in the face of death they fall down faster than Morrigan's knickers.

And for story purposes alone who wouldn't want their god baby running around causing chaos or needing to be saved or whatever - personally I wanted my kid by Morrigan and my kid by Anora in an epic clash twenty years in the future - I'd be caught in the middle (preserved by the work of aforesaid evil Keep scientist), possible reunion with Morrigan (or not, think Count of Monte Cristo) who years of loneliness and aging had softened. Still, lots of potential for epicness with the Flemeth/Morrigan/Hawke/Baby/Warden(?) thing and hopefully large cast of others.

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 14 septembre 2010 - 04:42 .