170 réponses à ce sujet

[Pygmali0n]

S'alright I saw the unfortunately I'm just trying to gently introduce the idea of all players who took the ritual, which must be the majority, ganging up and gagging, kidnapping, cutting off the internet connections of those who didn't and are limiting all sorts of possibilities.

Dark Ritual - the clue's in the name! - The rule is you let the bad thing happen, then you whack it with swords to make it all better again.

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 14 septembre 2010 - 04:53 .

[CybAnt1]

On the matter of OGB's existence: Again, I posit, have you ever known Morrigan to give up easily?



Assuming the PC turned her down, and Alistair or Loghain weren't offered as alternative baby-daddies, I still think she very well could have used some magic to seduce either us, them, or some other Warden (Riordan?) right before the battle, and conceived anyway.



To me, the best explanation for us being "mysteriously" alive despite having turned down the DR (and not having Al or Log do it) is that Morrigan then went ahead and did it anyway, just now without our knowledge or consent.

[TJPags]

CybAnt1 wrote...

On the matter of OGB's existence: Again, I posit, have you ever known Morrigan to give up easily?

Assuming the PC turned her down, and Alistair or Loghain weren't offered as alternative baby-daddies, I still think she very well could have used some magic to seduce either us, them, or some other Warden (Riordan?) right before the battle, and conceived anyway.

To me, the best explanation for us being "mysteriously" alive despite having turned down the DR (and not having Al or Log do it) is that Morrigan then went ahead and did it anyway, just now without our knowledge or consent.

Sorry, but, please god, no.

The whole "option to import a dead warden" had to basically have been put there to placate people who killed their warden, yet were upset they couldn't play as their warden in future games - completely illogical, but there it is.

People chose this option - and while I would ALWAYS do the DR (why die if I don't have to?) there are a lot of people who prefer not to.  They distrust Morrigan, question the OGB and what it may become, etc - and while I don't agree with these people, those are valid gameplay reasons to turn it down.

Yet they turned down the DR, did the US, and then illogically imported their dead character to continue the game - that's illogic of their own making, supported by Bioware.

If Bioware were to turn around and come up with some "well, your dead warden isn't dead because, you know, Morrigan raped him while he slept" kind of thing, that would REALLY suck.  Such a crappy, trite redux would be a shame.

Besides - how do they explain that big funeral they had for your dead-but-somehow-not-dead Warden?

[rak72]

CybAnt1 wrote...

On the matter of OGB's existence: Again, I posit, have you ever known Morrigan to give up easily?

Assuming the PC turned her down, and Alistair or Loghain weren't offered as alternative baby-daddies, I still think she very well could have used some magic to seduce either us, them, or some other Warden (Riordan?) right before the battle, and conceived anyway.

To me, the best explanation for us being "mysteriously" alive despite having turned down the DR (and not having Al or Log do it) is that Morrigan then went ahead and did it anyway, just now without our knowledge or consent.

If that happened, the Warden would not have died, because Archies soul would have traveled to the OGB, and not to the Warden.

[asaiasai]

There was a thread a few months back where folks tried to argue that even if you turned down the DR Morrigan still could have done it anyway. Some of the ideas were plain pathetic in regards how the warden still dies but Morrigan got her god baby anyway, one of my favorites was Morrigan somehow slipped to the top of the tower and just as the warden delivered the final blow. Morrigan was some how able to kill the warden and make it look like it was a normal AD killing event.

I appreciate the choice Bioware has allowed us to make in regards to the DR, some have no qualms and will do the DR everytime, while i almost never do it and look to either Allistair or Loghain to take the final blow. I do realize how much extra work it must entail to provide a plausable story for both choices, and as this is a single player experience (do not forget this) my plays SHOULD be distinct from yours, that should be the norm, not the exception. I have played alot of games over the last 15 years and this is the primary reason i like Bioware and Bethesda, the player gets to write thier own story in the story. You trust Morrigan, i do not. You do the DR i do not. Yet both of these choices are acceptable and supported by Bioware, to me that is just too awesome for words.

The ending bugs have been with us since the first time we finished Origins, and while not optimal it was still acceptable, but for the first time with WH it created a situation where confusion reigned. Still waiting on that patch to fix WH but even if they never get it right, even with the ending bugs, i would rather play the more open world flexible story that is DAO than some linear adventure like GTA4.

Thanks
Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 15 septembre 2010 - 05:52 .

[Phedra]

I just completed WH and I an am disappointed, it really does not give an answer to any question other than the child is a healthy and innocent baby boy. They do not even leave the book the Arraine (Dalish Elf) was trying to get back.



Even my husband, who can't stand me playing the game, said WTF at the ending. I had my Male Mage go thru the mirrow with Morrigan and nothing just a save. I remember with my Dalish Elf, Tamelen stated he could a city in the mirror which makes me think you get taken to the Black City; however I guess I will never know.

[Zy-El]

It would have been nice to have a few epilogue balloons to tell us what happened afterwards. At least something to acknowledge all of our campaign choices (ie who is ruler of Ferelden? Is the Circle independant? Do the Dalish have a new homeland? How is Fergus doing? Has the Chantry started its Holy March against Orzammar?)

[CybAnt1]

I just went and played Golems of Amgarrak, after finishing Witch Hunt, and I have a theory about a possible connection between the two DlCs.

We still don't know where the Eluvian portals go, but ... in Golems, it seems you can enter a "red", "blue", or "purple" magical world which is parallel to our own, but when you ask Brogan if those worlds are in the Fade he says "no, not exactly". So these parallel magical worlds (which often contain things that are only accessible or visible if you are properly "attuned" to their color) are something different. 

I wonder about Morrigan's statement that the Eluvian portals don't go to the Fade but somewhere "beyond" (thus can't go to the Golden or Black City either), and the rather deep, purple, color of the door she stepped through.

I think we will be learning about these mysteries soon in DA2. 

[CybAnt1]

 BTW, Witch Hunt raised one other set of questions in my mind. 

What is the relationship between the dwarves and the elves? By that, I mean, they have an antagonistic relationship in most fantasy settings, including Tolkien's. The dwarves are anti-magical, the elves magical; the elves like the forest and the surface, the dwarves prefer the underground. 

However, WH reveals that the dwarves built Cadash Thaig on top of an earlier Elvish settlement, Cadash-something (I forget the exact name). The Lights of Arlathan - Elven Lanterns - were to be found there. My response was: Wha? Why in of all places a dwarven thaig? 

The elves built underground? Huh? And the dwarves would built on top of earlier elven settlements? In some cases borrowing their name? This suggests some relationship between the two races which we've not seen so far to this point. 

[LtlMac]

CybAnt1 wrote...

 BTW, Witch Hunt raised one other set of questions in my mind. 

What is the relationship between the dwarves and the elves? By that, I mean, they have an antagonistic relationship in most fantasy settings, including Tolkien's. The dwarves are anti-magical, the elves magical; the elves like the forest and the surface, the dwarves prefer the underground. 

However, WH reveals that the dwarves built Cadash Thaig on top of an earlier Elvish settlement, Cadash-something (I forget the exact name). The Lights of Arlathan - Elven Lanterns - were to be found there. My response was: Wha? Why in of all places a dwarven thaig? 

The elves built underground? Huh? And the dwarves would built on top of earlier elven settlements? In some cases borrowing their name? This suggests some relationship between the two races which we've not seen so far to this point. 

If you do the side quest in the Thaig you learn that elves were hiding there from the Thalian (or whatever it was called) Empire and being sheltered by the Dwarves.  When the other thaigs found out they destroyed the thaigs (ie....dwarves illed dwarves).  If I remember correctly (and I may not)....the first Dwarf to find the Elven artifacts hypothesized that the thaig was built on an ancient elven settlment....when they found out it was not the case and learned the true history, they decided to NOT enter the info into the ancient records.

That said......it never made sense...even in that explanation....whay the Lights of Arlathan were there (though to be fair....i might have missed something in my eagerness to get through the dull stuff and get to what I had foolishly hoped to be a climactic conclusion.

[21121313]

I just finished up my first run of Witch Hunt, and while i really expected nothing less then what i got explanation wise out of Morrigan( i get the feeling the only way you would really understand it all in the first place is if you were in Morrigan's shoes), i understood why it ended as such.

However, i fully understand why there are complaints regarding the ending. It can easily be seen as unfulfilling given Morrigan's usual way with words, i.e. not being specific or direct when answering anyhting regarding herself or her mother, except for placing blame on the mother. Even in Origins she didn't give you a full reason to kill Flemeth except the fact that it pretty much suited her needs. I don't remember reading Flemeth's tome, so i had to take her word for it that Flemeth planned to take over her body after a certain point.

Sadly, it's what i expected anyways, so it really didn't ruin anything.

If anything, the ending basically said to me "if you want to find out about Flemeth, you need to purchase DA2".

Which was more then likely the point of the DLC, or should i say the hook?

Modifié par 21121313, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[Maconbar]

CybAnt1 wrote...

I just went and played Golems of Amgarrak, after finishing Witch Hunt, and I have a theory about a possible connection between the two DlCs.

We still don't know where the Eluvian portals go, but ... in Golems, it seems you can enter a "red", "blue", or "purple" magical world which is parallel to our own, but when you ask Brogan if those worlds are in the Fade he says "no, not exactly". So these parallel magical worlds (which often contain things that are only accessible or visible if you are properly "attuned" to their color) are something different. 

I wonder about Morrigan's statement that the Eluvian portals don't go to the Fade but somewhere "beyond" (thus can't go to the Golden or Black City either), and the rather deep, purple, color of the door she stepped through.

I think we will be learning about these mysteries soon in DA2. 

We don't know if the Black City is actually part of the fade. All we know is that the Black City is always visible within the fade. It doesn't seem to be accessible to those within the fade.

[3SG Sage]

As a fan of the series I was dissatisfied as well. I never did find out why I was alive again after sacrificing myself the first time I did feel a little ripped off based on their advertising promise. Even though I left with Morrigan - she never even said anything like "we will live outside time and create fade muffins" or give any indication what her plans are. I still don't know anything that I didn't after the origins play through. Well, I know that the baby is a boy. Heck, I don't think I even fathered it but I can't remember.

[Vicious]

I'm just glad Morrigan saved the god child from whatever fate Flemeth had in store for him... couldn't have been good.

[Chuvvy]

I'm glad they're not putting out anymore DLC for origins. After Witch Hunt, I'm ready to jump down a flight of stairs and terminate this pregnancy.



Honestly after playing this DLC it sapped me of any desire to play DA:O again.

[Invalidcode]

Bugged, figured as much...no wonder the dialogues doesn't add up.

I really don't mind another cliff hanger for Morrigan and DAO as long as there is follow up later in DA:2, but Bioware please...

"The Warden heads into the forest to find out and tie up this last loose end once and for all." This is just very misleading... 'marketing'. (I really can't think of a proper word)

Other than that the DLC is ok though.

P.S. Leliana's Song is better =P

Modifié par Invalidcode, 17 septembre 2010 - 07:24 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TJPags wrote...

The whole "option to import a dead warden" had to basically have been put there to placate people who killed their warden, yet were upset they couldn't play as their warden in future games - completely illogical, but there it is.

People chose this option - and while I would ALWAYS do the DR (why die if I don't have to?) there are a lot of people who prefer not to.  They distrust Morrigan, question the OGB and what it may become, etc - and while I don't agree with these people, those are valid gameplay reasons to turn it down.

Yet they turned down the DR, did the US, and then illogically imported their dead character to continue the game - that's illogic of their own making, supported by Bioware.

No, you dolt!

People want to import their dead warden, because their dead warden changed the world, and those changes need to be adressed, regardless of the warden is dead or alive.
There's nothing illgoical about it.

If my  Warden saved Redcliffe, then Redcliffe should be on the maps in DA2, regardless if the warden is still alive or not.
For Gods sake man, use your brain!

[CybAnt1]

"The Warden heads into the forest to find out and tie up this last loose end once and for all." This is just very misleading... 'marketing'. (I really can't think of a proper word)

Yeah ... it wraps nothing up ... does provide a nice teaser for the apparent role Flemeth will play in DA2, though, when we find out whatever she is, exactly. 

Is it closure for the Warden's story? Wherever the portals go, it doesn't seem like a return trip is impossible, it's just that Morrigan says the Warden can't follow through that portal if she goes alone (since it will only work once), but there are other portals elsewhere and the speech makes pretty clear that she'll beeeee baaaack.....  with OGB in tow or not. 

And if she can come back, so can Wardens who went with her. Still doesn't seem to end the Warden's tale, either. If anything, those who went with her have now become part of her plans for the future ... even though she warns them they'll regret it. (Which seems to be the reason she didn't offer the choice before.) 

[Myusha]

...You didn't expect answers to your questions in a seven dollar DLC did you?

You're gulliable if you did.

[SirJarenTor]

I was disappointed by Witch Hunt. I enjoyed Golems for the straightforward Dungeoneering, and I WAS enjoying Witch Hunt for the revisiting places and chasing a mystery portion. But by far, the meeting with Morrigan was show stoppingly bad.

In my estimation, the only people who seem to be satisfied (excluding the bugs...) are those hopelessly infatuated with Morrigan and get their happily ever after. The reason for this is, even though they don't get any answers, they do get their happily ever after (or something approximating it).

Spoilers Hereafter:

The rest of us, well she doesn't tell us anything new. The baby (if it exists) is male and is claimed to be "safe". Um, swell?

We're told to hunt Flemeth if we hunt anyone, but with no explanation whatsoever. No reason why she wanted the child, no indication of what Flemeth is, not even a hint as to why she's back in Fereldan at all, and stealing books from the Dalish no less. We don't even see the surprise left for us, or try to figure out what is even in the book.
The advertisements promised a Dramatic Confrontation, but I have to say, it's hardly a confrontation when your options amount to "OK bye" or "click through some irrelevant questions, and THEN OK bye". It definitely was not dramatic, especially with the three irrelevant questions deflected.

From my point of view, Morrigan offered my Warden's a valuable service, preserving his life, and potentially even offering redemption to an ancient sentient dragon. But if she's going to run off and ask me never to follow, then she really shouldn't go traipsing across the land I'm Warden Commander of, and not expect me to want to know what a powerful Apostate is doing returning after so rapid an exit.

I didn't mind, or really expect, the DLC to be anything other than easy, as it seemed to me to be advertised as primarily a story centered item.

Honestly, the best parts of the DLC were the nods to various things in the library, and Finn's commentary:

"Did you ever wish you could just go around pissing on whatever you wanted?"
"No, why, do you?"
"NO! No, no, haha, of course not..."

Modifié par SirJarenTor, 17 septembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[TJPags]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The whole "option to import a dead warden" had to basically have been put there to placate people who killed their warden, yet were upset they couldn't play as their warden in future games - completely illogical, but there it is.

People chose this option - and while I would ALWAYS do the DR (why die if I don't have to?) there are a lot of people who prefer not to.  They distrust Morrigan, question the OGB and what it may become, etc - and while I don't agree with these people, those are valid gameplay reasons to turn it down.

Yet they turned down the DR, did the US, and then illogically imported their dead character to continue the game - that's illogic of their own making, supported by Bioware.

No, you dolt!

People want to import their dead warden, because their dead warden changed the world, and those changes need to be adressed, regardless of the warden is dead or alive.
There's nothing illgoical about it.

If my  Warden saved Redcliffe, then Redcliffe should be on the maps in DA2, regardless if the warden is still alive or not.
For Gods sake man, use your brain!

Well, hello to you too.

However, I beg to disagree, and stand by my first statement.

yes, your Warden changed the world.  Your warden - if you did the US - also DIED.  Dead.  Not alive.  How is it at all logical to someone continue his story?  Is s/he a ghost?  A zombie?  Possessed by someone like Justice?  A vampire?

Nope - the Warden is DEAD.  To continue to play that character is illogical.

[LtlMac]

Myusha wrote...

...You didn't expect answers to your questions in a seven dollar DLC did you?
You're gulliable if you did.

When a company I trust...or, I shoudl say, 'trusted'......markets that I will recieve those answers...then, yes.  Yes I did.  Perhaps I was gullible.  Bioware will soon find out how quickly a decade(+) of earning a positive reputation can go down the toilet.  I wasn't kidding when I said Bioware games went from a 'first day purchase' to a 'wait and see.' 

As I have stated...it's not just how *bleep* the DLC was...it was the fact that the DLC was so amazingly below expectations relative to the marketing promise, and so *bleep* even if there were no promises that I feel betrayed.  You can argue that I am being emotionally irrational....and I would say you have a good point...but the reality is that Bioware is/was the ONE compay (Other than maybe Bethesad (sp?...sorry, tired and not in mood to look up the correct spelling) that I had faith in.  That faith is gone.......the almighty dollar snares another 'honest' company.

Everything about this DLC wreaks of a product meant to be something more...but was cut short when a the 'bottom line' was calculated.  GL with that bottom line when you realize there are long term consequences for your short term gains. 

As far as I am concered the idea of 'Games for Gamers' turned into 'fools who donate us money' as a company slogan.  I will treat their products as such.