98 réponses à ce sujet

[joshiepoopc]

i think the change in her character actually makes more sense after the first game, think about who she traveled with, commander shepard, it made liara tough and bold

[Schneidend]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Maybe if you actually paid attention during her dialogue, you will remember that she *summarises* the comic for the player for crying out loud. Reading the comic doesnt change anything. It just puts the flimsy and stupid reasoning in paper form and you have to pay to read it.

That's the difference, here. You don't think the Redemption events mean anything, and I think that they do.

She watched Shepard 'die' and then went on a mission to find the truth behind that death, uncertain if the Commander had truly been killed. She saw the ugly underbelly of the galaxy along the way and got somebody else, somebody she trusted, hurt in conflict with the Shadow Broker. Events like that can change people, and Liara therefore changed.

[implodinggoat]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...


I can't think of a single sentence she could have said, that would have made this interview more unethical without her violating the terms of her contract.

So you consider honest answers to be unethical?  That's very interesting.

I think its perfectly fair for her to say that she was confused about the direction of Liara's character because honestly it would have been bizarre for her to feel otherwise.

I mean she had come to understand Liara's character in ME1 as an honest, analytical and benevolent character and then she was handed a script where all her lines were deceptive, vague, and ruthless.  How could she not be confused by her character's motivations?

[GODzilla]

Mhm...well I'm not sure who to blame here. Bioware not giving her enough informations or not pointing her to a) the game itself, the comic and obsviously c) the story of the DLC itself. Or was it the voice actress who ignored these sources of information?

It's also a question whether a voice actor is entitled to look for the information him- or herself, or if the studio who hires them should give any bit of information without the need to ask for it.

Anyway, I think the informations are all there and the change in personality and / or character can be explained quite easily. Someone clearly failed at either providing these infos or by getting to aquire them...

Modifié par GODzilla_GSPB, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:09 .

[Whatever42]

I liked Liara in ME2 and I think she did explain that she had gone through something pretty traumatic for her so I understood that there was cause, even if I didn't fully understand what happened.



Of course, I didn't really love ME1 Liara. Perhaps if I did, I would feel like I was owed a lot more of an explanation. And as an actress, I can certainly understand her desire for a lot more background, considering it was a pretty significant change.

[cachx]

Had I worked on FFXIII I would be confused and frustrated too !

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

She's pretty damn cute. She should get more time on real films, imo.

[Turian Antiquarian]

implodinggoat wrote...

Turian Antiquarian wrote...


I can't think of a single sentence she could have said, that would have made this interview more unethical without her violating the terms of her contract.

So you consider honest answers to be unethical?  That's very interesting.

Thank you for your replay.

Firstly, just let get this straight:

My personal opinion on this issue DOES NOT mean that I necessarily hate anyone who thinks differently or even hold an opinion that's the exact opposite of my own. Since I respect and wishes to hear your point of view, I don't think that there's any need for any more snide remarks.

As you know, the honesty of a person (A.Hillis) is very questionable, when a clear contrast of interest is present. This thread is actually a good example for how a one-sided version from her, in regards to what went on in the studio, made pretty much everybody here Assume that she is absolutely, in no way, to be hold accountable for any discontent among Liara fans.

Secondly I think It's safe to assume that she both knew that Bioware couldn't risk a "press-war" over this, not to mention, her necessity in terms of character continuity. If so, I DEFINITELY consider it unethical to jab someone, when you know that jabbing back would cost them more than just take the hit.

The only logical way for me to accept this as Not-unethical (yes, double negation) is if I truly believed that she was oblivious to everything of the above, when taking this interview.

I hope to see your reply and possibly those of others, address the conflict of interests I elaborated on, and not just sniping and bashing.

Thank you again.

Modifié par Turian Antiquarian, 10 septembre 2010 - 07:28 .

[Axeface]

implodinggoat wrote...

Axeface wrote...

Liara's change never annoyed me. People change, drastically sometimes. I've seen it in real life.
I dont see what all the whining is about.

People change; but when they do there is a reason for it.  ME2 gives you no justifiable reason for Liara undergoing such a drastic change.  There is no logical transformation from the character she was in ME1 to the character she is in ME2.  She simply acts one way in the first game and then in the second she turns into an entirely different character with a bizzarre and completely unjustified obsession.

Consider....

[SPOILERS]

In ME1 she made the most important archeological discovery EVER.  A discovery which shows that the entire galaxy is in extreme danger and a discovery which the ruling powers of the galaxy have choosen to ignore despite the fact that doing so is risking the lives of billions of people.

Then in ME2 rather than continuing her life's work and proving the existence of the reapers she abandons her life's work and devotes herself to avenging some dude
who she went on one mission with and who lied to her for almost the entire mission about the fact he was working for Cerberus.

And then when her former Commander (who saved her life on two seperate occassions, who's remains she risked her life to recover  and who was very possibly her lover) returns and asks her to continue her life's work by helping to save the galaxy, the single most intelligent and benevolent character in ME1 turns him down so she can continue her quest to avenge some random dude who she went on one mission with.

Now I'm sorry but that makes no ****ing sense whatsoever.

[END SPOILERS]

Your not factoring Shepards death here really. Whether Shep was an LI or not he/she has a profound impact on Liara as a character.
I see it as one of those times in life when everything and everyone seems to turn against you. For some people these 'cursed years' (Which i'll wager many of us myself included have experienced in RL) can really change people.

I dont think it's simply that she wants to avenge Feron, I think it's the emotional trauma of all these things happening to her in such a short space of time. And please remember, Liara is barely an adult. If you were to relate her to human years she would be around 16-18 years old.

I really think that this change (And it isn't much of a change to be honest, shes just learnt to speak her mind) is well founded.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Turian Antiquarian wrote...


I can't think of a single sentence she could have said, that would have made this interview more unethical without her violating the terms of her contract.

So you consider honest answers to be unethical?  That's very interesting.

Thank you for your replay.

Firstly, just let get this straight:

My personal opinion on this issue DOES NOT mean that I necessarily hate anyone who thinks differently or even hold an opinion that's the exact opposite of my own. Since I respect and wishes to hear your point of view, I don't think that there's any need for any more snide remarks.

As you know, the honesty of a person (A.Hillis) is very questionable, when a clear contrast of interest is present. This thread is actually a good example for how a one-sided version from her, in regards to what went on in the studio, made pretty much everybody here Assume that she is absolutely, in no way, to be hold accountable for any discontent among Liara fans.

Secondly I think It's safe to assume that she both knew that Bioware couldn't risk a "press-war" over this, not to mention, her necessity in terms of character continuity. If so, I DEFINITELY consider it unethical to jab someone, when you know that jabbing back would cost them more than just take the hit.

The only logical way for me to accept this as Not-unethical (yes, double negation) is if I truly believed that she was oblivious to everything of the above, when taking this interview.

I hope to see your replay and possibly those of others, address the conflict of interests I elaborated on, and not just sniping and bashing.

Thank you again.

It's spelled reply, by the way.

[Axeface]

I think what she is saying is eye opening.

If herself and Bioware have pulled off such a great character so far without aiding her in all the ways she needs (describing scenes and the character more), imagine if they started doing what shes saying?



This honest talk will only lead to good things. And a better game for us.

[Turian Antiquarian]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

It's spelled reply, by the way.

Thank you, it was corrected. I apologize in advance. it's hard for me to avoid misspelling in a left-to-right language.

[Jonas TM]

The more I think on it the less favorable of the change to Liara I become.

Really the thing the bugs me is that we now have one less LI or even squad mate in a general without severe emotional/psychological baggage. I really liked Liara from ME1 because she was more or less normal. She may have been a blue alien with head tentacles, but of the all the LI's she was the least polarizing. I was not happy with the change in the ME2 campaign, although I'm less irritated now after playing LotSB. I can totally understand how Ali feels on this one, the changes they made to her personality regardless of whether or not it is justified have made her far less likable.

I mean as of now the only female LI that is relatively normal is Tali. Just for comparison: Ashley - zealot, Miranda - emotionally stunted, entitled, princess, Jack - sociopath. Hell even considering Kasumi who's a clepto and Samara I don't even know if their is a description for whats up with her. And we now have a Liara who is closed-off, disinterested, manipulative and looks to be enjoying wielding power way too much.

[Mike2640]

Jonas TM wrote...

The more I think on it the less favorable of the change to Liara I become.
Really the thing the bugs me is that we now have one less LI or even squad mate in a general without severe emotional/psychological baggage. I really liked Liara from ME1 because she was more or less normal. She may have been a blue alien with head tentacles, but of the all the LI's she was the least polarizing. I was not happy with the change in the ME2 campaign, although I'm less irritated now after playing LotSB. I can totally understand how Ali feels on this one, the changes they made to her personality regardless of whether or not it is justified have made her far less likable.
I mean as of now the only female LI that is relatively normal is Tali. Just for comparison: Ashley - zealot, Miranda - emotionally stunted, entitled, princess, Jack - sociopath. Hell even considering Kasumi who's a clepto and Samara I don't even know if their is a description for whats up with her. And we now have a Liara who is closed-off, disinterested, manipulative and looks to be enjoying wielding power way too much.

Oh for gods sake Ashley isn't a zealot. She's religious and it comes up in exactly one conversation and in the email she mentions praying.
And while Liara may have been a good character, if she doesn't have some development and change then she's just a static squad filler. Liara growing and changing allowed her to become her own person, instead of just "The nerdy blue alien chick". I'm not saying she ever was just that, but now she cant be summed up as easily in a single sentence.

That said, I felt that the way her development was presented was poorly done. Her friend was kidnapped and shepard dies infront of her. Bad, granted, but none of that really added together to equal the Deadly Information Broker persona. Even if you read the comic you dont really see how events are effecting her or even getting to her all that much. After she gets Sheps body she's more or less the same.

It felt like they expected people to just run with it and assume that whatever happened was horrible and scarring. Knowing exactly what transpired showed that it really wasn't that terrible.

Modifié par Mike2640, 10 septembre 2010 - 08:39 .

[Jonas TM]

Having read about a million sci-fi novels in the last 15 years I understand and agree with the idea that characters have to change between episodes in order to remain interesting. However I think they could have done it in a way as not to make her unlikeable. Tali for example; she lost her whole squad on Haestrom and then her father and all her shipmates. She became more determined, more confident, and more driven, but her underlying personality remained pretty much the same.

Liara on the other hand may have experienced a lot of guilt losing both Shepard and Feron, but instead of tweaking her, they completely changed her personality. The result is they changed most of the traits people liked and now we are stuck with a brooding, devious, manipulative and dismissive Liara, who is nothing like she was in the original.

At this point, I don't think there is any way they could believably shift her personality to be more likable. Certainly not to the point of her old character traits, which is unfortunate IMO. I'll withhold my judgment, however, and hope for the best in ME3. If not, there is always Tali.

Modifié par Jonas TM, 10 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[OneDrunkMonk]

OK my take on ME2 Liara both in main game and in Lair of the Shadow Brokers is that she had gone through a significant personality shift from ME1. In ME1 she seemed young, adventurous, smart but unsure of herself at times (or just when it came to mating Shepard). In ME2 and in the DLC she was quite emotionally distant from Shepard (especially considering if you romanced her in ME1), obsessed with the Shadow Broker and revenge, more sure of herself, had developed some kinda connection with Feron and...Well, it seems after she rescued Shepard's body and gave it to Cerberus she just put Shepard behind her and moved on.



All in all I can't say that the script worked as well as it should have in the storyline as far as Liara goes. Even in Lair of the Shadow Broker I was left scratching my head a bit as to why she was the way she was, especially with Shepard. Feels like there is something missing...Or maybe because Asari usually outlive their mates they don't get too worked up over one partner. I'm tempted to think though that the writers didn't invest enough in Liara post ME1. They probably didn't consider that fans would be so interested in following up on the ME1 romance.

[APZonerunner]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...

Thank you for your replay.

Firstly, just let get this straight:

My personal opinion on this issue DOES NOT mean that I necessarily hate anyone who thinks differently or even hold an opinion that's the exact opposite of my own. Since I respect and wishes to hear your point of view, I don't think that there's any need for any more snide remarks.

As you know, the honesty of a person (A.Hillis) is very questionable, when a clear contrast of interest is present. This thread is actually a good example for how a one-sided version from her, in regards to what went on in the studio, made pretty much everybody here Assume that she is absolutely, in no way, to be hold accountable for any discontent among Liara fans.

Secondly I think It's safe to assume that she both knew that Bioware couldn't risk a "press-war" over this, not to mention, her necessity in terms of character continuity. If so, I DEFINITELY consider it unethical to jab someone, when you know that jabbing back would cost them more than just take the hit.

The only logical way for me to accept this as Not-unethical (yes, double negation) is if I truly believed that she was oblivious to everything of the above, when taking this interview.

I hope to see your reply and possibly those of others, address the conflict of interests I elaborated on, and not just sniping and bashing.

Thank you again.

I just want to chip in again as a part of that website, that any concept of a "press war" is really very ridiculous. As a website dedicated to RPGs we have a wonderful relationship with the PR people at Bioware and at EA, and previous Mass Effect features on the site have been featured on the front page of this very site. We're very supportive of Bioware purely because they are going to great lengths to make the genre we all love on that site a little more popular and a little more mainstream, and they're all doing a great job.

Anyway, I'd like to defend Ali on that point. All she says in the interview is that she wasn't really given much information or direction for her (initial) ME2 performance - just lines, really - and wasn't even shown what the actual game looked like before starting on ME1 - she just had a piece of concept art of Liara. She didn't know any better back then, but obviously her experience with FF13 made her rethink that, as she was given everything she could've wanted in terms of help building the character.

But then again, it's also apples and oranges, as recording a localization for a game that already entirely exists and is near-complete in one language is a very different affair to recording lines for a game that is eight to twelve months from going gold. I don't really think she was jabbing, though, and I certainly don't think it was impolite. She noted the difference between the jobs, and said she preferred working on FF13. More power to her, because ME2 is definitely the better game!

Modifié par APZonerunner, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[Turian Antiquarian]

APZonerunner wrote...

I just want to chip in again as a part of that website, that any concept of a "press war" is really very ridiculous. As a website dedicated to RPGs we have a wonderful relationship with the PR people at Bioware and at EA, and previous Mass Effect features on the site have been featured on the front page of this very site. We're very supportive of Bioware purely because they are going to great lengths to make the genre we all love on that site a little more popular and a little more mainstream, and they're all doing a great job.

Anyway, I'd like to defend Ali on that point. All she says in the interview is that she wasn't really given much information or direction for her (initial) ME2 performance - just lines, really - and wasn't even shown what the actual game looked like before starting on ME1 - she just had a piece of concept art of Liara. She didn't know any better back then, but obviously her experience with FF13 made her rethink that, as she was given everything she could've wanted in terms of help building the character.

But then again, it's also apples and oranges, as recording a localization for a game that already entirely exists and is near-complete in one language is a very different affair to recording lines for a game that is eight to twelve months from going gold. I don't really think she was jabbing, though, and I certainly don't think it was impolite. She noted the difference between the jobs, and said she preferred working on FF13. More power to her, because ME2 is definitely the better game!

Thank you for posting here. I guess that if she "didn't Know any better" when she first accepted the "Liara job", then It really does suggest that it would be more of an "oblivious" thing and not a "jabbing" thing.

I do not know you, but I do know that a website such as yours would not have any reason to knowingly allow something intentionally offensive to go through. If your relationship with Bioware is indeed as you say it is, then you probably wouldn't have posted this here without more than just a good sense of where they stand on this matter. I'll just say one more thing before dropping this whole Issue:

I think that no film director would have been very happy to find out that one of his supporting actors is telling the media, How he felt that he was unable to do his job as well as he could have, if he got everything he felt needed from the director to do so. all that while the film is still in being shown in the cinemas.

On the other hand, any director who wishes to avoid this particular kind of issues, should have reconsidered binding character-continuity for a 10 years saga, to an actor who "didn't Know any better" in the first place.

I have no further interest in this, but maybe you could find out if what she said was before or after LotSB voicing. I noticed that most other people would like to know this.

Thank you

[Terror_K]

One also has to remember that FFXIII is a Japanese game first and an English game second. Square were developing it for over a year before Ali probably even was approached to voice for it, and she's essentially doing a translation. Because of this they would simply have far more developed and far more to give her than BioWare would for an English game where not everything is quite as developed yet.

Jonas TM wrote...

Having read about a million sci-fi novels in the last 15 years I understand and agree with the idea that characters have to change between episodes in order to remain interesting. However I think they could have done it in a way as not to make her unlikeable. Tali for example; she lost her whole squad on Haestrom and then her father and all her shipmates. She became more determined, more confident, and more driven, but her underlying personality remained pretty much the same.

Liara on the other hand may have experienced a lot of guilt losing both Shepard and Feron, but instead of tweaking her, they completely changed her personality. The result is they changed most of the traits people liked and now we are stuck with a brooding, devious, manipulative and dismissive Liara, who is nothing like she was in the original.

At this point, I don't think there is any way they could believably shift her personality to be more likable. Certainly not to the point of her old character traits, which is unfortunate IMO. I'll withhold my judgment, however, and hope for the best in ME3. If not, there is always Tali.

I like her again thanks to LotSB. She's not the same old Liara of course, and she never will be again thanks to the events that have permanantly coloured her over the past couple of years, but she's closer now than she was when we first meet her again in ME2. She's got a great weight off her shoulders now, and Shepard helped bring her back down to earth a fair bit throughout the course of the mission itself. I think Liara needed Shepard to help ground her and realise who she was, and look past what two years of venegance had done to her.

She was young and naive, then found herself jumping straight into something she probably wasn't ready and properly prepared for. I imagine she probably started out with the notion of creating a mask of ruthlessness and brutal efficiency in her role as an information broker to catch TSB, but through her own ambition, frustration and hate soon the mask imprinted itself upon her real character, becoming part of her. Two years down the track Shepard shows up and sees her transformed, and it's only through events through LotSB and when Liara connects with Shepard again she actually gets to pull back and see what's she's become. LotSB has helped her grow too. She's stronger and wiser now, having been hardened and matured by the last two years of her life. But she's trying to put that behind her now, and thanks to Shepard and circumstances she can. She'll never be the same again, but she'll adapt and grow and part of her old self will still always be there.

And after playing LotSB you can see the difference. Not just with Liara's character growing through it itself, but with the fact that it does. With ME1 to ME2 there a two year gap and the whole thing is very sudden. Sure... we get a small taste of the beginnings of Liara's descent in Redeption, but we never actually see her grow or experience it. To us, it's sudden because we have a gap. With LotSB you can see the difference because you get to be there as Liara grows and changes yet again, and you get to help her and be part of it.

Modifié par Terror_K, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:22 .

[OneDrunkMonk]

Well I think it's important not to read too much into her remarks or over speculate. Personally I think any actor should be able to discuss their work on a project within a reasonable time after project's release. A performance whether good, mediocre or bad isn't all about the actor or actress's ability. There's also the script, direction (or lack thereof) and overall working conditions.



Let's face it, the character Liara had a very minor role in ME2. It was almost an afterthought. This contrasts greatly from ME1 where she was a pivotal figure. A lot of players of ME1 were disappointed with not only how little of Liara was present initially in ME2 but also how oddly indifferent the character was towards Shepard compared to ME1. Sure "Two years, blah, blah..." but really, even if you read the comics (which failed to capture her character almost completely by the way), you still find yourself perplexed by her behavior. You didn't even get a sense of how she matured over two years (which is like 2-3 months in human time). Nor do you really get a sense of why she was so obsessed with the Shadow Broker. I don't think it was a lacking performance by the VA, I blame the script and direction (or lack thereof). I mean for Christ sakes Shepard first walks into Liara's office, reuniting with Liara for the first time since his apparent demise 2 years ago, and she's all formal and cordial like he was a former client returning to get his tax return done.



Same thing with Anderson and Tali. Just flat. Like no one really seemed to care Shepard was declared dead and now he's magically alive in the same room with you.

[brfritos]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...


My personal opinion on this issue DOES NOT mean that I necessarily hate anyone who thinks differently or even hold an opinion that's the exact opposite of my own. Since I respect and wishes to hear your point of view, I don't think that there's any need for any more snide remarks.

As you know, the honesty of a person (A.Hillis) is very questionable, when a clear contrast of interest is present. This thread is actually a good example for how a one-sided version from her, in regards to what went on in the studio, made pretty much everybody here Assume that she is absolutely, in no way, to be hold accountable for any discontent among Liara fans.

Secondly I think It's safe to assume that she both knew that Bioware couldn't risk a "press-war" over this, not to mention, her necessity in terms of character continuity. If so, I DEFINITELY consider it unethical to jab someone, when you know that jabbing back would cost them more than just take the hit.

The only logical way for me to accept this as Not-unethical (yes, double negation) is if I truly believed that she was oblivious to everything of the above, when taking this interview.

I hope to see your reply and possibly those of others, address the conflict of interests I elaborated on, and not just sniping and bashing.

Thank you again.

Did you read the entire interview or only what Terror_K post it?

There's one interesting part that wasn't posted.

RPGSite: Perhaps your first big success as a voice actor was the role of Dr. Liara T'Soni in Mass Effect and its recent sequel Mass Effect 2. What was it that first attracted you to Mass Effect?
Ali: Money [laughs]. I’ll admit a pay cheque. I’d like to be more interesting than that but when I went into Mass Effect I wasn’t very familiar with voicing video games at all. I have a PS3 but I never really knew the vastness and the complexity of video game characters. My husband plays sports games so outside of an ‘oof!’ or a ‘hey man!’ I didn’t really think that there was a whole lot to the characters [laughs].

When I started voicing Mass Effect, there was no artwork outside of still art, I didn’t have anything on the screen to watch, so I just had a drawing of her and that’s all I had to go on. When I got to the studio they explained to me very quickly what her background was and who she was and her different layers and immediately I kind of grabbed a hold of an idea and ran with it and luckily it worked, so that was good.

See? In the first game they also did this to her, she had to improvise and luckily it worked, to quote her own words. In the second game Bioware did it again - not explaining the Liara's changes to her - and she obviously acted like in the first game, wich wasn't what Bioware wanted.
Only then Caroline Livingstone, the director responsible for voice acting, explained what she wanted.

So you're blaming her because the process appears to be, at least, mistaken?

Also, you're assuming a lot. Tell me where Bioware declared that her work wasn't good, where Bioware found her interview a "conflict of interests" and where they announced they won't hire her again for a role in ME3.
And were she hit the game/company or compare ME2 with Final Fantasy XIII, I'm failing to see it?

I didn't liked Caroline's work in ME2 to be honest, her direction in ME1 was much better.
And you're blaming the actor for the director's fault, BTW.

Actors needs a director behind them, it's not the opposite, you can make a classic with a unknown actor/actress, but you CAN'T make a classic with a great actor/actress and a bad director. Great names of the movies when starting a carrier, like Al Pacino, Dustin Hoffman, Robert De Niro, Meryl Streep and many others, declared many times that if wasn't for a director behind them their works probably will ended being uterelly and pure s**t.
If you have any doubts search for what Al Pacino said about Sidney Lumet in "Dog Day Afternoon" or "Serpico".

Something like "I learned how to really act with Sidney", for example.

Also, she said what a lot of people here in the forums questioned too, why Bioware changed so many things in the story and in the characters.
Is that what you think it's "unprofessional"?
 

[Fro_McJoe]

I am still confused that naive and emotional Liara who wasn't that confrontational returned two years later like she was served 3 tours of duty in Vietnam and watched he best friend die in her arms. I'm almost surprised that she didn't say something like:



"Shepard, do you know the sound when a man slowly dies in the heat and stink, trying to put his intestines back in? The jungle eats you boy. It takes your humanity and it buries it deep inside its labyrinth. Son, have you ever died for your country? Because I HAVE!



Sorry that just felt necessary.



But seriously, Tali started all innocent but skilled and matured but didn't become someone out the SAS. Garrus,well he had always been a warrior and just finally started to get disillusioned, but even the stuff that goes down in the comics shouldn't change someone's core personality so much. I like that she finally grew up, but not to the extent that she did.

[OneDrunkMonk]

Tali I got a good sense that she had matured from the young wide-eyed women out on her pilgrimage we first met in ME1. Tali was a major player in ME2 so they took the time to script and direct her character. Garrus you could already sense the burgeoning dissent all the way back in ME1 so the evolution of the character to what we had in ME2 seemed right on course. Joker is Joker. Doctor Chakwas is a beautiful character and you got to see how the years have taken their toll on her. Sharing a drink with her in ME2, that moment had more resonance than anything with Liara. Wrex had evolved too (assuming you didn't let him die in ME1) and although he got about as much time in ME2 as Liara the script and direction made sense.



But whatever, what's done is done.

[Turian Antiquarian]

@brfritos

First, thank you very much for this!
As a personal rule, I always "re-read" my posts after someone posted a reply.
This time, after reading yours I was actually alarmed when I realized that some people may get a FALSE, yet logically-understandable impression, that I am simply an over-zealous Bioware fan thinking he's "standing up" for them.

And since that is exactly what I find most disturbing about "Fan culture", I must address this with more than just a feeble "not true". NOTE: To get an idea of what I'm talking about, Google | Star Wars Force Kick | possibly the worst case of Self-rationalization in the history of Sci-Fi.

So, quick overview of plot holes that killed some of the game for me:

1)
As someone who loved playing as a "Sole-Survivor" In ME1, When I was finely forced to acknowledge the existence of this HUGE "Akuze" plot hole, My Shep fell right through the floor mesh, and un-clipped into UnrealEngine hell. No need to elaborate, it was chewed-out months ago.

2)
Personally, Legion's self-contradicting statements in regard to his own ability to even make them, made me wish I could just listen to Jacob and space it out of the airlock. As collateral damage, it also invalidated a certain aspect of the "overlord" DLC. Again, not the place to elaborate.

I know that nothing you wrote was an accusation, it just opened my eyes to this new perspective.

Thank you,

Modifié par Turian Antiquarian, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:24 .

[implodinggoat]

Mike2640 wrote...

That said, I felt that the way her development was presented was poorly done. Her friend was kidnapped and shepard dies infront of her. Bad, granted, but none of that really added together to equal the Deadly Information Broker persona. Even if you read the comic you dont really see how events are effecting her or even getting to her all that much. After she gets Sheps body she's more or less the same.

It felt like they expected people to just run with it and assume that whatever happened was horrible and scarring. Knowing exactly what transpired showed that it really wasn't that terrible.

I think the problem with Liara's character is that she was an after thought.  Bioware had things they wanted to get done in the plot and they contorted Liara into a completely different character to get them done.

OBJECTIVE 1:  Make the player want  to pursue the other love interests in ME2.
SOLUTION:  Make the ME1 love interests as unappealing as possible.

OBJECTIVE 2:  Everything has to fit in with the "DARK SECOND ACT" mentality. 
SOLUTION: Take the most beneveloent, honest and likeable character in ME1 and turn her into a ruthless, manipulative and extremely unlikeable character; becausethat makes her "DARK".

OBJECTIVE 3:  The fans would be pissed if we don't squeeze a Liara cameo in somewhere.
SOLUTION:  Why not use Liara as a crude plot device which puts you on the trail of Samara and Thane?

OBJECTIVE 4:  Sell Comic Books and DLC.
SOLUTION:  Create an arbitrary and largely unexplained connection between Liara and the Shadowbroker so fans will throw down cash to try and figure out the bizarre transformation in Liara's character.


Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the game and of Bioware in general; but I'm not going to turn a blind eye to the fact that they butchered one of my favorite character's so they could use her as a convenient plot device.