33 réponses à ce sujet

[MrMidas]

Hi. Haven't really tried a monk in NWN2 so I would like to hear some advice on how to build one effectively. The more advice the better!

The biggest question is... unarmed or dual kamas? Even if perfect two-weapon fighitng brings in a ton of attacks am I going to miss the 1d20 unarmed damage? Does circle kick work with weapons? What about stunning fist?

Race and stats?

Thanks!

[nicethugbert]

Kaedrin's PrC pack for Intuitive Strike.

[MrMidas]

Looking for advice on the existing stuff with the option to take it to a PW later.

[MANoob]

Kama monks deal horrible damage unless you get some stupidly overenchanted kamas or multiclass with a rogue. With medium BAB you absolutely need a shadowdancer level (another options are assasin 8 or monk/cleric/sacred fist). Do not take more than 20 monk (most good builds have no more than 16 (unarmed) and 11 (armed)). Actually some of the best "monk" builds have 1-3 monk levels (on a rogue for flurry and AC).



Circle kick is a horrible feat, do not take it. It is possible to make a somewhat effective stunner with epic stunning fist dc increases, but it's better not to.



For a non rogue monk it's a good idea to get a high str score (for damage), so gray orc is a good race. For monk/rogues go dex. Any race with bonus dex will do, but note that small races take extra penalty when fighting with dual kamas (although small stature and some other benefits of a small race usually make up for that). You also should not treat wisdom as a dump stat because you need that AC, but don't take more than 16 unless you make a cleric heavy sacred fist with access to high level spells.

[MrMidas]

Thanks!

[The Fred]

Monks are one of those classes which are better pure. They tend to have a difficult time of it at low levels, but can be pretty powerful later on. There are a few things you need to think about:

Race
Small races are bad because they do less damage. ECL races are tough because monks can't really afford to stay at a low level longer than they need to. That said, anything with bonuses STR/DEX (depending on whether you want to be a STR or DEX monk), CON or WIS is good.

Multiclassing
This is generally not great because you lose out on class features and unarmed damage, unless you're taking the monk levels only as a "dip" (so take 1-3 levels; this is not really a true monk build, though). The exception is the Sacred Fist (for which you will need at least one Cleric or Druid level, though Cleric is generally considered to be better). Rogue can be good, as mentioned, and I guess things like Fighter for the odd bonus feat (you're short on feats as a Monk).
If you are going to multiclass, do it at L4 (theoretically for Ki Strike, but only if you want to fight unarmed still, in which case you may as well take more monk levels), L6 (Improved Knockdown), L9 (Improved Evasion), L11 (Great Flurry) or L16 (Ki Strike (Adamantine), again for unarmed fighting only). Perfect Self (at L20) is pretty cool, though.


Circle Kick is actually, I think, pretty great, but apparently it suffers from bugs because it switches your target.

Modifié par The Fred, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[MrMidas]

Stats? with a 10 con I can get 18 str and 18 wisdom with a 15 dex for circle kick. After that all points in strength? Some in wis? all in wis?



ty

[Thorsson64]

I concur with Manoob and disagree with Fred. Monks are definitely better not pure.



Sacred Fists can be very powerful - you can wear Light Armor and still keep your Wisdom bonus (probably a bug), which means you can afford to boost Strength, and the SF goodies (including Fist damage) stack with Monk. Pretty much any caster is more powerful than a non-caster. You can't do better than an SF if you want to use fists.



For Kamas you look to Greater Flurry, PTWF and an insane number of attacks per round. This works well in MotB due to the insane crafting. Elsewhere they tend to be Monk/Assassin/Fighter or similar (usually minimum 11 Monk for Greater Flurry, 8 Assassin for HiPS, Sneak Attack, and maybe Greater Invis, 8 Fighter to boost your AB - high BAB class plus EWF - and for the extra Feats).

[The Fred]

Sacred Fist is generally the exception (since it stacks for unarmed damage etc), and of course prestige classes like Shadowdancer for Hide in Plain sight, etc. You can't split them at any old level or take many levels out like you can with fighters, though, because you lose out on the class features. An unarmed monk without Ki Strike is a bit of a waste, imo. I don't mean you have to have ALL your levels in monk, but like Warlocks, they don't multiclass that well (though maybe better in NWN2 than they did in NWN1).



As for stats, I personally wouldn't push Str and Wis both so high at the expense of Con. Without a little Con you'll be kinda fragile (yes a high AC will protect you from attacks and evasion from AoE spells, but direct damage spells or ones without saves will cut right through those, and then there's no substitute for high health). But then, I hate pushing one stat really high 'cos it strikes me as point-inefficient. ;-)

[MrMidas]

Got a str-based Gray Orc Monk. Very cool so far. now... cleave (+great cleave?)?

[MANoob]

Power attack, cleave and great cleave are all bad feat choices for a monk unless you're not planning to play above ~level 7. With a str GOrc your best bet is to get sacred fist, so take a cleric level, combat casting, go SF and take practised caster and extend spell. Unarmed focus/critical feats are also desired.

[MrMidas]

Ok... thinking of SF (maybe). I might miss having fists count as adamantine weapons though. Best build for this? (1 cleric? more?) And about domains... tims is good, yes? There is a domain that gives divine power as a lvl 3 spell. Would that let me make it persistent?

ty!

edti: how does this (bug?) with light armor work? Would I still get my wis AC from being a monk? I tried in Vordan's taking a level of cleric and putting on armor but lost monk wis bonus. If SF lets me use all my monk abilities in armor that is very desirable!

Modifié par MrMidas, 12 septembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[MANoob]

Best build for this? (1 cleric? more?) And about domains... tims is good, yes?

Pretty standart monk 11/cleric 9/SF 10 (no adamantine fists) or monk 16/cleric 3/SD 1/ SF 10 (has adamantine fists, but not high level spells) or monk 1/cleric 19/SF 10 (full casting, bad fist damage) or even monk 11/fighter 8/cleric 1/ SF 10 if you don't like buffing. There are plenty of other options. If you're limited by lvl 20 cap it's probably monk 1/cleric 9 /SF 10 or monk 11/cleric 1/SF 8. Each has its advantages and I actually never bothered to do a comprehensive comparision for these builds, so it's up to you if you want to find the best one. Time is good.

There is a domain that gives divine power as a lvl 3 spell. Would that let me make it persistent?

No, but it's still good for getting it faster and if you have few level 4-5 spell slots.

edti: how does this (bug?) with light armor work? Would I still get my wis AC from being a monk? I tried in Vordan's taking a level of cleric and putting on armor but lost monk wis bonus. If SF lets me use all my monk abilities in armor that is very desirable!

You must have at least 1 SF level. With it all your monk abilities work in light armor (no shields or heavier armor).

Modifié par MANoob, 12 septembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Thorsson64]

The Fred wrote...

As for stats, I personally wouldn't push Str and Wis both so high at the expense of Con. Without a little Con you'll be kinda fragile (yes a high AC will protect you from attacks and evasion from AoE spells, but direct damage spells or ones without saves will cut right through those, and then there's no substitute for high health). But then, I hate pushing one stat really high 'cos it strikes me as point-inefficient. ;-)

Monks are MAD (Multi Ability Dependent), and no character should ignore Con, but all that means is you make sure you probably spend 6 points each in Str, Dex, Con, Wis and then increase one or two further. Of course certain races can help here, and you may not need to boost one stat by the full 6.

[MrMidas]

Sold on monk/cleric/SF. Just in Vordan's so far this is great! Help me finish it off though...

What order is best to take? I was toying with 1monk then cleric until SF then 10 SF? Will I want 10 of each class? Even with that won't I miss out on high-level slots since two of the SF levels dont add spells?

Starting feat? Luck of Heroes or Prodigy?

Domain... thinking Time and Fire ?

ty

edit: cool I see now. monk 11/cleric 9/ SF10 it is. greater flurry!

What is the best order to take these to be as powerful as possible early on? First I need to play the OC then MotB. Eventually I want to take this to a PW.

Modifié par MrMidas, 12 septembre 2010 - 12:27 .

[The Fred]

It's just whether you want to spend 2-4 points per point of Str or Wis when you could get twice as much Con. Yes you might lose a point of AB or AC, but get 2 or more points of health per level. Obviously this is tricky for monks who are indeed MAD (though there's a difference I think between Multiple Attribute Dependancy and being boosted by multiple attributes, as the Swashbuckler is... anyway, I digress).

If you are happy to take Luck as a Domain, you get Luck of Heroes for free, letting you take Spellcasting Prodigy at 1st level and have both. That takes up a domain, though (obviously).

Incidentally, if you have Divine Power as a 3rd-level spell with the Strength domain (IIRC), surely you *can* persist it as a 9th-level? Persist is +6 levels, right?

Modifié par The Fred, 12 septembre 2010 - 01:48 .

[MrMidas]

Have decided to go with the higher con. probably str 16 dex 14 con 14 int 10 wis 18 cha 6. just need to figure out when to take what class-wise.

[MANoob]

Cleric casting is cool, so I suppose going monk 1/cleric 9/SF 10 first would be a good idea. This way you get 9 lvl spells by lvl 20. Take practiced caster to get full caster level. Add more monk at epic levels, Frankly you would be a bit weaker than a pure cleric first, but eventually you will outshine it as a melee combatant, Take monk level first for extra skillpoints and qualify for SF as soon as possible. Look carefully through the skills you may need. Some of them may not be class skills for all your classes, so you might consider taking able learner in the end.

Fire domain is somewhat lacking - you are not an offensive caster and those are not the best offensive spells anyway. Consider these domains: darkness (blind fight), luck(luck of heroes), earth(toughness and stone skin), plant(barkskin), water(evasion is redundant, but if you want offensive casting it's the way to go - ice storms are good, and domain ice storms are bugged and ignore SR - no worries about low caster level), war (weapon focus with appropriate deity). Use nwn2db to plan your build ahead and search for similar builds to see how they compare with yours.

SF may be not the best class for oc/motb both because you get a cool artifact sword (although you may give it to one of your companions) and the fact that motb crafting allows stupidly high enchants for weapons (but not gloves). Just saying, not that you'll have problems with beating the crap out of everything. For most PWs its a solid build.

Incidentally, if you have Divine Power as a 3rd-level spell with the Strength domain (IIRC), surely you *can* persist it as a 9th-level? Persist is +6 levels, right?

No, because divine power is marked as non persistable in spells.2da. So no matter what, you are not allowed to persist it.

Modifié par MANoob, 12 septembre 2010 - 06:16 .

[nicethugbert]

You want to use Kaedrin's class pack because it allows you to craft monk gloves. You can't craft them in the OC, MotB, or SoZ. The Devs are mean that way. Without the gloves you will watch the rest of the party do great damage with very powerful weapons.



It also has a lot of bug fixes, A LOT, plus lots of other content. It's fun for the whole party.



Tony K's AI is a very good idea too. And, regardless of what AI you use, turn off automatic spell casting on each spell caster, unless you like having your party blown ot pieces by your own casters or you like to see them drop bombs on ants and other assorted dumb moves.



For similar reasons you do not want them to use items of abilities on their own. They'll drink a Heal potion to cure 20 HP and all sorts of crazy.

[MANoob]

Yeah, Kaedrin's will help you with gloves. Although the gloves you can find in the OC are comparable with the weapons there, so this is more for MotB. K's pack also allows more spells to work with unarmed strikes as well (but that's mostly druid stuff).

[The Fred]

Did you say you were going Grey Orc, because unless your favoured class is Cleric (Grey Orcs do get that I think, as do Aasimar) or Any (e.g. Human etc), you're probably going to want to alternate monk and cleric levels until you can become a Sacred Fist to avoid an XP penalty. Other than that, I'd personally take the SF levels as soon as possible and only afterwards take extra Cleric or Monk levels to take you up to 20+. You could also take something like Shadowdancer for Hide in Plain Sights (HiPS) I guess. Or just go Int-based Monk/Swash/Duelist, it would make a nice change. ;-)

[MrMidas]

(ducks for cover) dont shoot I am thinking of something else. For a heavier focus on casting and some groovy undead-turning I might end up going with cleric/doomguide. Only remaining question is about domains - does the bonuses from Sun Domain stack with all of the divine feats (ie what a doomguide gets)?

ty!

edit: please... if you can help me figure out the best two domains for a doomguide I am all set to start this. Evil looks impressive - if I can get doomguide turing against outsiders that would be impressive (and the two spells looks good.) Do I want Time? Haste and Premonition? or skip it for Sun?

Modifié par MrMidas, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[MANoob]

Depends on how much do you want to specialize in turning. For full turning power sun&evil is the way to go. If you want some other domain drop sun, because evil adds you much needed flexibility. I'm not too fond of doomguides/turning builds but I guess you can find a handful of decent ones on nwn2db.

[Thorsson64]

Turning is not very good at higher levels, Doomguide or no.

[MrMidas]

lol k... monk/cleric/sacred fist.



best domains are Time and... ?